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steve
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Katyn

Postby steve » 1 decade 7 years ago (Thu Dec 05, 2002 3:30 pm)

Hi Folks,

I have a question for you all.

I'm sure many of you are familiar with Katyn.
Now, I recall (possibly, incorrectly), that some Jew had his signature on the order (to execute the Poles at Katyn), and that he is living on a pension right now (as opposed to being brought up on war crimes charges, as is the case with 90-100 year old Germans).

Is that indeed the case? Was a major signature Jewish?

Any info you can post is appreciated.

Steve

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 7 years ago (Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:11 pm)

I have a question for you all.

I'm sure many of you are familiar with Katyn.
Now, I recall (possibly, incorrectly), that some Jew had his signature on the order (to execute the Poles at Katyn), ... Any info you can post is appreciated.

Steve

=============================================

As far as I know there is no known document for the order to commit the mass extermination of Poles at the Katyn forest. Where did you get that to 'recall'?

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 7 years ago (Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:50 pm)

My good man, I don’t think that God’s darlings like your question.

From
“The Victors in the Shadow of their Guilt” (German) by Joachim Nolywaika
http://www.vho.org/D/dsisis/34.html

Die Historikerin und Mitarbeiterin des Instituts für allgemeine Geschichte der Akademie der Wissenschaften der UdSSR, Natalja Le-bedjewa, habe im Sonderarchiv der Hauptarchivverwaltung der UdSSR und im Zentralen Staatlichen Archiv der Sowjetarmee die entsprechenden Dokumente entdeckt. Datiert mit März 1941 sind die Dokumente unterschrieben vom berüchtigten Lawrentij Berija, Volkskommissar für innere Angelegenheiten der UdSSR.


Translation:
The historian and assistant of the Institute of General History of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, Natalja Le-bedjewa, discovered in a special archive of the Main Archive Administartion of the USSR and in the Central State Archive of the Soviet Army the related documents. Dated March 1941 the documents were signed by the notorious Lawrenij Berija, People Commissary for Internal Events of the USSR.


Berija was Jewish.

fge

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 7 years ago (Thu Dec 05, 2002 9:42 pm)

As to the question of whether or not there was a order signed by a Jew for the mass extermination of Poles at Katyn forest Sailor comes up with something:

Translation:
The historian and assistant of the Institute of General History of the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, Natalja Le-bedjewa, discovered in a special archive of the Main Archive Administartion of the USSR and in the Central State Archive of the Soviet Army the related documents. Dated March 1941 the documents were signed by the notorious Lawrenij Berija, People Commissary for Internal Events of the USSR.


Berija was Jewish.

==============================================

Thank god, or more correctly, hopefully it's all true. What do we have from Natalja Le-bedjewa himself? If I would make a point of it on down the road I would like to have as much as possible.

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Postby steve » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:23 am)

"As far as I know there is no known document for the order to commit the mass extermination of Poles at the Katyn forest. Where did you get that to 'recall'?"

Tom,

I don't remember where I saw the thing about some prominent Jew, living comfortably right now, who was a major signature on the Katyn order.
Over the last few years, I must have been on God knows how many sites and read that many more articles!

I will add, though, the History Channel even did something on Katyn the other day. (The main topic was the crimes of Stalin, I believe.) Not that the History Channel is a beacon of truth, but, they mentioned such a document, and mentioned that Stalin had his name on it. (If there were other signatures, and were Jewish, I doubt they wouild have mentioned that specific factoid.)

As for Beria(Sp?), I recall that name, but, I do not think that was the name I am (possibly incorrectly) remembering.

If I ever run across the article again, I'll post it here.

Steve

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun May 22, 2005 6:39 am)

Maser published the order for Katyn massacre (with a paraph of Stalin) recently:

Image

Source: http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3789281344/qid=1116761946/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl/302-8567770-6612837
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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon May 23, 2005 1:51 am)

Hi Steve,

You may be thinking of a situation right after the war where Stalin set up concentration camps run by Jews and with German inmates. John Sack documented this in Eye For An Eye. There they really did have dogs that bit genitals and people being forced to hit each other. Strangely, all the stuff the Germans are said to have done! Not because they followed the Germans' example, but because these stories always were more about them.

This last year the Polish government asked the Israeli government to extradite one of the heads of those camps. And Israel didn't do it. My guess is you read something about this story.

By the way, I heard Beria was not Jewish. After him came Lazar Kaganovich who was. I heard that from a Ukrainian.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon May 23, 2005 9:18 am)

Don't forget, from:

Announcements and Informative Downloads
http://forum.codoh.com/
scroll to:
Katyn facts: 'Amtliches Material zum Massenmord von Katyn
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=758

The documented excavation of Katyn by the Germans. The sort of work that was NOT and CANNOT be done to prove the 'holocau$t' as alleged, and we know why.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby steve » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon May 23, 2005 9:06 pm)

Wow, I forgot all about this thread!
My first reaction is that I noticed Sailor was kind enough to answer my question and I did not even acknowledge it at the time. Such bad manners! Sailor, I hope you are not the 'Never Forgive, Never Forget' type!

Anyway, I strained my memory and I still cannot remember where I read about one of the guys who signed the Katyn order that was living comfortably on a pension in Israel (or maybe even Russia, I cannot remember). And I am pretty sure that is what I did indeed read. If I do ever recall, I will surely post it here.

Carto, I am familiar with the back-stabber John Sack's book with the inappropriate title. It should have been '1000 Lives For a Fingernail'. That would have much more appropriate. The guy you are talking about is Solomon Morel. I think Israel, when asked about extradition, said the statute of limitations ran out! This from a group who are still deporting 90 year old men. When are people finally going to have enough of this filth?

For interesting, related reading, the following link is from Michael Hoffman's site:

http://www.revisionisthistory.org/communist.html

Hannover:
The documented excavation of Katyn by the Germans. The sort of work that was NOT and CANNOT be done to prove the 'holocau$t' as alleged, and we know why.


I think it was Tom Moran, in a post a little while back, that pointed out that there is NO similar evidence with what allegedly happened to the chosen ones. Remember my friend from the Treblinka thread? Well, he was quite impressed by that observation. As was I.

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Postby soda » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat May 28, 2005 5:42 am)

You may be thinking of a situation right after the war where Stalin set up concentration camps run by Jews and with German inmates. John Sack documented this in Eye For An Eye. There they really did have dogs that bit genitals and people being forced to hit each other. Strangely, all the stuff the Germans are said to have done! Not because they followed the Germans' example, but because these stories always were more about them.


Could we have a source for this, please?

I notice it isn't referred to in Montefiorres 1,000 page book on Stalinism, nor in Martin Ami's "Koba The Dread".

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat May 28, 2005 10:45 am)

soda wrote:
You may be thinking of a situation right after the war where Stalin set up concentration camps run by Jews and with German inmates. John Sack documented this in Eye For An Eye. There they really did have dogs that bit genitals and people being forced to hit each other. Strangely, all the stuff the Germans are said to have done! Not because they followed the Germans' example, but because these stories always were more about them.


Could we have a source for this, please?


See the book An Eye for An Eye: The Untold Story of Jewish Revenge Against Germans in 1945.

In his book, Sack, himself a Jew, describes in detail the atrocities committed at the camp: "The guards put the Germans into a doghouse, beating them if they didn't say 'bow-wow'. They got the Germans to beat each other; to jump on each other's spines and to punch each other's noses, and hit the Germans so hard that they once knocked a German's glass eye out." Guards also raped German women and trained dogs to bite off German men's genitals on command, Sack said.

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Postby soda » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat May 28, 2005 11:52 am)

I thought so. Are you aware Sack is, in fact, a pseudonym for another well known Revisionist author?

Do you have, perhaps, a better source?

Photographs and location of the camp and link to the source would be nice.

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Postby steve » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat May 28, 2005 2:52 pm)

Soda, since you ask for a source, I get the impression you disbelieve this.

Let me ask you something. Not only is John Sack a jew, he also pays homage to the Big H Lie. My question is, do you feel Sack is lying? If so, what would be his motive?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat May 28, 2005 10:05 pm)

soda says:
I thought so. Are you aware Sack is, in fact, a pseudonym for another well known Revisionist author?

Huh? Utter nonsense, to be polite.
I've met & talked with Sack and all the name Revisionists and oddly Sacks looks nothing like any of them, see below. I wonder who that Revisionist could be in soda's imagination.

- Hannover

John Sack
Image
Image
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun May 29, 2005 3:39 am)

In addition see:

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/JS/dictionary_o ... _intro.htm

excerpt:

John Sack's devotion to accuracy and fairness places his writings among the best examples of literary journalism's ability to capture truth. Working within a school of reporting often criticized for its use of literary license, Sack, one of New Journalism's pioneers, has built a career on accuracy. His stories are as vivid and compelling as those of others using that style, and yet, despite the assumptions of some critics, he has made it his practice not to fictionalize. In a half century of writing books and writing for magazines, newspapers, radio and television, often on extremely controversial topics, none of the more than one thousand people that Sack has written about have reported to him a serious error or distortion of fact.


Image

Image

I thought so. Are you aware Sack is, in fact, a pseudonym for another well known Revisionist author?


Do you still believe he only exist on "paper", so to speak?

Do you have, perhaps, a better source?


Have you checked the source which was given to you? If not, why not?

Photographs and location of the camp and link to the source would be nice.


Pictures? Do you know what Auschwitz looked like? Insofar as I know Schwintochlowitz/Swietochlowice and Gleiwitz was sub-camps of the industrial complex at Auschwitz-Birkenau, "Auschwitz III". I assume you have seen Auschwitz.

Image
(more pictures: http://www.vho.org/GB/c/JS/an_eye_for_a ... graphs.htm)

Meet the Commandant of Gleiwitz, Lola Potok; Sack had this to say about "Auschwitz" in comparison to the camps run by Jews:

We all know about Auschwitz. But I have to tell you, the Germans in Lola's prison were worse off than Lola had been at Auschwitz. Lola at Auschwitz wasn't locked in a room night and day. She wasn't tortured night after night. She herself told me: "Thank God, nobody tried to rape us. The Germans weren't allowed to." But all of that happened to German girls at Lola's prison in Gleiwitz.

(Much more here: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n1p-9_Sack.html (Behind An Eye for An Eye)


More information may be found at the below resources:

http://www.deutsche-und-polen.de/_/erei ... _1945.html (Ereignis: 1945, Haß auf Deutsche, Deutsche und Polen)

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v20/v20n1p-9_Sack.html (Behind An Eye for An Eye)

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/KillerMorel.html (The Commandant)

http://www.vho.org/GB/c/JS/an_eye_for_a ... inutes.htm (same as above, "The Commandant".)

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