Touristic visit to Auschwitz

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Juan
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Touristic visit to Auschwitz

Postby Juan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:48 am)

It seems that you just can't tour Poland without taking a peek of the Rome of the Holycows Cult.

A person related to me just visited Krakow with a friend, and among the many photos he/she took and published was one from the KZ, obviously with the quote "impressing - no further comment". He/she knows and dissaproves of my revisionist position, but won't argue with me (his/her position is as weak as the average dupe's can be). MAybe the photo was somewhat "dedicated" to me :lol:

I'm waiting to get my virtual hands on the rest of the pictures of the KZ, and what he/she was told to think about those images... then I'll add some comment.

Cheers.

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Postby Speeder » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:18 pm)

Depends on what the picture shows really, it could be the missing proof that its all true as stated just that no one else has spotted it in 60 odd years.

I have done the main camp and Birkenau tour twice and the presentation of some of the so called "proofs" are laughable. For instance the carefully arranged pile of hair in the "proof of crimes block"; the notice says traces of HNC have been found on the hair. All it proves is that hair cuts were given and hair cleaned with HCN.

Last time I sailed a bit too close to the wind as fair as the guide was concerned questions about the theatre and swimming pool did not go down well.

Also the camp 1 potato store converted to the so called gas chamber by the Soviets was apparently replastered between being a gas chamber and becoming a potato store. The only reason I can think of was to spare the potatoes the sight of fingerprints in the plaster which the guide said were there from its use as a gas chamber.

How he knew this I dont know but he offered this "gem" in response to a question from me about the very low levels of HCN found in the walls when they were tested.

You couldn't make it up

regards

Speeder

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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:31 pm)

It is indeed one of those funny things that nearly everyone who has been to the Krakow region (beautiful, and well worth it) has made the obligatory pilgrimage to Auschwitz, Birkenau or both. I have made the journey myself, though not for the purpose of blubbing at the sight of a bag of 'gassed' hair or a pile of old boots.

Speeder, I too sailed close to the wind on a couple of occasions during my own visit. The swimming pool was one case in point - I remember making a sarcastic comment about Mark Spitz, and the fact that he probably would have made good use of the training facilities. Also, when I was at the Stammlager, I (rather loudly) commented to my travel partner that the 'gas chamber' there was a postwar reconstruction, and that if we could seek out the curator we could ask him all about it and catch the answer on the camcorder. A group of tourists (Americans, I believe) looked at us like we were from Mars.
Scour the surface throughly until it is glistening...

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Postby Speeder » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:39 pm)

Having been there twice gave me the chance to carefully consider what I had seen and been told the first time and to follow up some "fuzzy" areas on the second visit.

Obviously the highlight of the tour is the alleged gas chamber/ crematorium at the main camp. On the first visit the guide grudgingly mentioned it was a reconstruction but would only apply his comment to the oven room saying this was where all the rebuilding had occurred.

On the second visit I raised the issue whilst still in the alleged chamber (the tour sequence is chamber then oven room) and I wanted to raise it then so that the comments could not be limited.

The guide was fairly happy to say there had been rebuilding of the bunker by the soviets but that it was reconstructed using original parts found in the camp.

I then asked about the low levels of HCN found in the walls and was amazed at the response. The story went it was first an air raid shelter, the a gas chamber and then a vegetable store. The Soviets turned it back into an alleged gas chamber. However between being an alleged chamber and a vegetable store it was replastered in its entirity because, the guide claimed "of the finger marks left in the wall from the period when it was in use as a gas chamber" becuase of this little HCN could be found, therefore QED and beams of delight from the "believer" tourists in the party who were not pleased that I had sniped away throughout the tour.

I stopped the smiles by then asking if the easily liftable drain covers in the chamber were there when it was allegedly used homicidally and the guide could only muster the reply "they are original" before getting us into the oven room PDQ.

Thinking over the replastering claim whilst the guide told them about the ovens I realised it seemed to be complete nonsense, sure its an easy way of putting forward a reason for low HCN but were there really finger gouges in dry hard plaster, and why replaster if it was being used to store vegetables.

As you know from your visit once you leave the oven room thats the end of the main camp tour and its bus time for Birkenau. I caught up with guide on the way to the bus and asked him how he knew the room was replastered and he could only say he had been told it by "survivors".

Interestingly he went onto say he often escorted survivors who gave tours of the camp and quite often they could say little about the camp other than the small bit they had worked in and that worse quite often they would make up stories about the bits they had not experienced, this was why an official guide went with their group and on occassion he had to take over explaining parts of the camp as the "survivor" had no knowledge or familiarity with that part or worse were making it up to appear knowledgeable.

Apparently there are a small number of "survivors" no longer allowed to lead tours for that reason.

regards

Speeder

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:25 am)

However between being an alleged chamber and a vegetable store it was re-plastered in its entirety


The only parts that have been re-plastered are the areas where they have knocked the internal partition walls down, they have also filled and screeded the areas on the floor-slab where the partition walls penetrated from below. Surely you must have clearly noticed the vertical marks on the internal faces of the walls, they run from the floor up to the underside of the roof-slab? The holes in the roof-slab have also been added post-war. It would take, oh I don’t know, about 3 seconds to see how many times the room has been plastered by looking along a reveal in the wall, I believe there is one leading into the oven room with no door frame attached..

If there were really “finger marks” in the plaster the industry would have gloried in them and made them the highlight of the holiday package. It would be possible to minimally surface scratch old lime based plasters with a man’s strong fingernails, but only just! But no-way could you leave finger marks embedded in the wall that is typical industry babble. It’s a very good thing that your average goy is thick as shit, because the industry would never succeed peddling such garbage otherwise. I know this might sound anti-semitical and blasphemous to holohoaxianity, but to be perfectly honest, I could not really care.

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Postby Speeder » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:19 am)

Hi Turpitz

Can only agree with your comments, the replastering where walls were removed is evident but what surprised me was the guide putting forward the view of entire replastering hence the low HCN levels found in plaster samples by Luechter, this was not a reason I could accept or believe and I think was said to get me to be quiet in front of the group.

Whilst in the oven room I thought over what he had said and thought it highly unlikely that samples were only taken from the replastered areas as from what I could see they were less than 5% of the wall area in the chamber and the odds of only sampling from these areas seemed ridiculous, as you would only end up with test results showing low samples but the guide was not that clever, he claimed wholescale replastering.

Hence my view that the comments were rubbish and were a worked out attempt to close down HCN level questions from visitors.

Similarly the presentation of "proofs" in the proof of crimes block are ridiculous, the pile of gassed hair mentioned above is hardly a proof of killing neither are the shoes or suitcases, it merely indicates they were taken away. The opened tins of Zyclon only show that fumigation occurred and so on. I watched the structure of this part of the tour carefully and apart from an explanation of the model of the Birkenau crema depicting people being gassed underground there were no direct references to people being gassed, you are first showed the crema model and told it shows how the gassing went and then you are taken to the shoes, hair and so on leading you to think they are gassing by products by misleading signs, for instance the one on the hair cabinet "hair of victims traces of HCN have been found", not exactly proof of victims, gassing or otherwise, just hair that has been deloused.

Its a good job for them that most visitors swallow it hook line and sinker as there is little there that holds the story together.

regards

Speeder

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Postby Karl S » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:40 am)

I jump in to show the sign outside Crema 1 in Auschwitz I. (From year 2001) Click on photo for enlargement. Note the sign says

After the war, the Museum partially reconstructed the gas chamber and crematorium. The chimney and two incinerators were rebuilt using original components, as were several of the openings in the gas chamber roof.


What original components? Where did they find these?

Image

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Postby Speeder » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:54 am)

At the back of the oven room there is a smaller room with a shoulder height window.

This room holds a variety of "spare parts" said to be found in the camp after liberation and used in the reconstruction, though where and when they were found is not mentioned. You have to ask the guide whats the room what are those bits and pieces or else its not mentioned.

But again its easy to get a contradiction from the guide. Whilst we were all admiring the Arbeit Macht Frei sign at the gate the guide told us that the Soviets stripped the camp of all scrap metal even down to door hinges and put it on a train to Russia. He went onto say a local Pole rescued the sign for a bottle of vodka.

So who rescued these "spares" and how much vodka did they pay as all the bits and pieces in that room are metal and in my opinion much better for scrap than the sign.

regards

Speeder

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:16 pm)

Can only agree with your comments, the re-plastering where walls were removed is evident


Well if there are variations and differences to the wall finish, does it not seem obvious that the wall was not completely re-plastered? I mean do people really need this basic logic explained to them? Does it not seem obvious that if it had been completely re-plastered, the wall finish would be uniform throughout?

I watched the structure of this part of the tour carefully and apart from an explanation of the model of the Birkenau crema depicting people being gassed underground there were no direct references to people being gassed.


That’s because it’s impossible to explain, the structures were never designed to handle the scenarios they suggest, and there are bottle-necks all over the place. I mean it is said 2000 people were gassed in Krema II at a time , if you allowed a very, very conservative “one minute” for the removal from the morgue of the HCN drenched corpses out through the door, into the lift and up to the oven rooms, that means 2000 minutes total, well 2000 minutes is 33.3 hours, which is one and a half days, so working flat out around the clock just to remove the corpses would take 33 hours, then you have to burn them (one at a time) which is going to take 50/60 minutes each, what a load of crap!

What original components? Where did they find these?


Yes it’s all terribly misleading; I mean what “original components” does one require to knock down internal partition walls? What “original components” does one need to punch holes in the roof-slab? What “original components” are required to remove the plumbing fixtures? What “original components” do you require to re-plaster the mess created by the fraudulent alterations?

You see the sign gives the impression that through their generosity toward mankind they have resurrected an otherwise waning building, when in reality it was perfectly alright when the Germans left, the industry are the ones who have changed the fabric of the building by “removing” components. But then they had to, otherwise it would not substantiate their lies.


On the foundationless plaque it reads “As were several of the openings in the gas chamber roof” Well this is insinuating that not all the holes were punched through after the war and there were some there already, how devious can these liars stoop?

All this constant repetition about change of use for the structure is just a cover for the change of use the industry has decided it should undertake and also an excuse for tampering and alterations.

Reading this plaque, you can see the impact David Cole’s investigations have had, all the problems and contradictions that arose in Cole’s video they have attempted to counter on this plaque. It would be interesting to know when this specific plaque was insidiously implanted into the turf at this spot.

I can image the scene at one of these outings as the inevitable hoard of over-bloated hulks arrive and clamber off the coach in their Bermuda shorts with their fat arses hanging out. Their overly large, upturned, brilliant white training shoes from Taiwanese sweat shops leading the way. Off they trot behind the fixer who fills their heads with nonsense, in and out of the inane structures; none of them got a bloody clue what they are looking at as they ram ornate ice-cream down their gullets.

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Postby Speeder » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:58 pm)

Hi Turpitz

You comments about the tourist types is depressingly accurate. When I was there in April there seemed to be 3 main types of visitor;

1. Bored Polish School children on school visits;

2. Older Poles some of whom were there to put candles at the shooting wall ;

3. The "Gee Honey I've seen a gas chamber type" who would have quite frankly probably demanded their money back if they didnt see one. But I doubt the majority could not tell a gas chamber from a hole in their arse and they seemed grateful the guide pointed it out. They certainly didnt want people like me putting doubt in their minds by asking question about the camp shop for prisioners or the lack of HCN traces in the potato store/air raid shelter/gas chamber/reconstructed bunker (take your pick as to what it really was).

Having seen the camp before I was quick out of Block 11 as its quite unremarkable, whilst waiting for the group I spoke to an old woman who had lit a candle at the shooting wall, she had lost a brother there who was a political prisioner. She was disgusted by the behaviour of Israeli school children who were roaming the camp in large unsupervised groups wrapped in Star of David flags, they had pushed her aside to get into block 11 whilst eating and drinking which is not allowed in the camp and had then poured into the courtyard chasing and calling to each other despite the plaque asking for silence in the yard.

Her view and that of one the people with her was that the main camp was a place of Polish political suffering and that it had little Jewish significance and that the Jews should confine their posturing and parades to Birkenau. There was also resentment about the eviction of the nuns from nunnery which was previously the camp theatre because of jewish protests.

It one hell of an operation there were 40 plus coaches in the car park.

In terms of bottle necks there is still one at the alleged gas chamber, the groups take about 10 minutes to move through and we had to stand outside waiting for the previous group of 25 tourists to be "processed" by the guide giving their talk.

regards

Speeder

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:01 pm)

I wonder who that last paragraph was referring too. Made me laugh out loud.

Can you imagine educated people accepting such convenient cover stories if they were spewed out to support a dissenting conspiracy theory? The media ridicules more convincing arguments than are made by the H Industry.


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