Epiphany moments for revisionists

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Carto's Cutlass Supreme
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Epiphany moments for revisionists

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:01 pm)

Hannover wrote:
Think about it, men arrested for their scrutiny of a period in history. No other period in history is protected from research and free speech except the so called 'holocau$t'. That in itself tells you it's a fraud.

I've never heard it articulated so well. The average person just thinks that, were they to take the time out of their life and investigate the holocaust, that they would find overwhelming evidence to support the holocaust and find that we are looneys. They believe they'd find a mountain of overwhelming evidence and that would prove that we're just a bunch of anti-semites in a fantasyworld. I think part of me believed that way in my baby-holocaust denial days. But when I saw that the plaque at Auschwitz had been changed from 4 million, to 1.5 million, after 35 or so years, that knocked me out of that mindset. Especially when I read the comment below the two side-by-side plaque photos. It said "A casual reduction of 2.5 million"!! I thought the photos were a photoshop forgery, and then found out they weren't. It was at "Birdman's" site which I'd found via a google search on Auschwitz. I would never go to that site nowadays, LOL, but I have to thank him for that one.

Another moment for me came when I read the Encyclopedia Britannica "Micropedia" that mentioned that at Nuremberg, the Germans would have a right to address the court. Then I read the transcript of Nuremberg, via Yale's Avalon project, where the judge cut Rudolf Hess off mid-sentence when Hess was saying something like "What I'm about to tell you...." It felt more like Rod Serling Twilight Zone script, than Nuremberg transcript.
Last edited by Carto's Cutlass Supreme on Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Goethe » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:10 pm)

After having thoughts even as a child about the lack of physical evidence, I then saw John Ball's site with the doctored aerial photos he dug out of the National Archives. That was it. No longer any lingering doubts about revisionist efforts. There it was, obviously marked up aerial photos attempting to draw in Zyklon-B insertion holes on morgues at Auschwitz. Then I looked at evidence for mass graves of alleged einsatzgruppen shootings which are said to have happened, the graves do not exist. Really pretty straight forward.
"The coward threatens when he is safe".
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Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:35 pm)

Carlos and others ...How I came to be a denier....



"A central lesson of science is that to understand complex issues (or even simple ones), we must try to free our minds of dogma and to guarantee the freedom to publish, to contradict, and to experiment. Arguments from authority are unacceptable." Karl Sagan

I thought I’d begin to answer your question with that nice little quote. It sums up rather nicely the thoughts of mine as one who lives in a country in which its citizens are lied to daily in the media and are prevented from questioning anything and everything about the holocaust under the threat of arrest for doing so.

I recall answering a question like this before on this site but I will attempt to do so without researching my first answer. I will be interesting to learn if I have changed my point of view from the last time.

The first time I ever heard of holocaust denial was either when James Keestra or Ernst Zundel, two Canadians, were mocked in the World press for denying the holocaust. I, of course, thought these two guys must just be publicity seekers or fools for no sane person could really, honestly doubt the holocaust. I had read the books, had seen the movies and had been to Dahau. What else was there to know?

Now, of course I would like to think that I had my suspicions about the holocaust for years and years and these suspicions motivated me to learn more and more about this great crime for I had read a great deal about the holocaust over the years. I would also like to think that I grew suspicious for example of how 2, 000 cremations per hour , as claimed by the myth makers, could take place without fuel for I knew human bodies do not burn, being made up mostly of water, and that each body would require several hundred pounds of fuel to be turned into dust (every barbequer should know this); that I questioned how this cremation could take place in camps with less than 50 crematoriums, for it takes at least an hour to cremate just one body and simple mathematics told me that at least 2, 000 crematoriums would be needed at this rate, not just 50; how a deadly gas, Zyklon B, that had approximately the same weight as air could have be released in the camp every hour without killing everyone in the camp including the guards; how the gas could possibly have been put into the gas chambers in the first place or how diesel engines, could kill with carbon dioxide, as claimed in “Treblinka”, because athough t’s a stinky gas it is not poisonous.

I should have questioned how 6 million Jews and others could have been so innocent, naïve and stupid to line up and wait around for hours to be shot by the tens of thousands as in the Babi Yar yarn or to be gassed every hour as in Auschwitz. I would like to think that I had more faith in the Jews than that. I now believe the myth of the holocasut is an insult to the tens of thousands of Jews and other who died of typhus in the camps. However the truth is that I did not become suspicious until much later in my life.

I had believed almost everything I had read by the mythmakers. I didn’t become I denier until I began to read some of their stuff and compare it with the myths. The deniers had science, mathematics, and logic on their side and explained things so well with no sign of hate. They made so much sense. On the other hand the mythmakers only had unbelievable stories, long sense discredited and they had no defence against the deniers other than the confessions of Eichmann and Hoess and other Nazis who somehow felt guilty about their crimes and confessed. The only thing the mythmakers could do to counter the arguments of the deniers was to call them anti -Semitic and I knew this not to be true.

The mythmakers also forced most countries in the world to create anti-thought laws about the holocaust and I knew this was not the behaviour of anyone seeking the truth. I no longer believed but it took me 30 years to get there.
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:30 pm)

As for Hannover saying:
Think about it, men arrested for their scrutiny of a period in history. No other period in history is protected from research and free speech except the so called 'holocau$t'. That in itself tells you it's a fraud.



As for Hannover's statement, Holocaust denial being the one and only as a taboo to question, we should never forget that if we want to see any Jesus Christ denial we can find it galore on the Internet, even university websites. Not only that but we can find stuff right in our daily newspapers or books in the libraries. No problem.

Yup, denying the foundation of a major religion is okay but denying the historical fraud is worse.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:41 am)

But it was at one time against the law to deny Jesus Christ. Thus this just replaced it as the new religion.

Can you really compare something as big as Jesus Christ and the holocaust? Aren't they apples and oranges? Not really because they both defined in their schemas, what the ultimate evil is.

Identifying the ultimate evil must be the biggest part of any cosmology.

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Postby PLAYWRIGHT » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Nov 10, 2005 10:26 am)

My epiphany was in 1994 - they interviewed the director of NIGHT AND FOG, a movie I had to watch in my high school history class in 1972. The director admitted that the movie concentrated less on being factual than on being a "work of art", and curious, I did a little fact checking.

When I discovered that the movie didn't have a shred of truth in it, my outrage over being deceived for 20 years led to the Lord's name being taken in vain.

I put a post on the NIGHT AND FOG thread detailing some of the things I discovered. Being jerked around as a teenager isn't a good way to keep believers believing.

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Postby Neue Geschichte » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Nov 10, 2005 6:30 pm)

My epiphany came like about half of all German kids. It came immediately because old parents told us it was a lie. They warned us about what we'd be told and taught us not to listen.

And they taught us to keep our mouths shut.

The freest of all Germanys!

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Postby gasto » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:03 pm)

Neue Geschichte wrote:My epiphany came like about half of all German kids. It came immediately because old parents told us it was a lie. They warned us about what we'd be told and taught us not to listen.

And they taught us to keep our mouths shut.

The freest of all Germanys!


I´ve always thought that in Germany, it was the other way around, parents telling their kids the same lies about the "holocaust" that we are told at school....
happy to hear is not that way :)

anw, my epiphany came when searching for information about WWII....I ended up in some forum, and one guy was telling everybody not to believe the standard story of the "holocaust", and suggesting to read more about it....so, I then ended up here :D
If Human Soap rumour was fake, why can´t all the other absurd claims be too??

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Postby simon1003 » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:14 am)

Mine came while I was living in Munich in 1999, I'd been reading Martin Gilbert's The Holocaust, I'd already started to become a little sceptical because of the sheer numbers of people that he was claiming were killed.

My wife and I visited Dachau and I was amazed at how close the camp was built to the town, it was not hidden at all, but is basically on the edge of town surrounded by fields and a housing estate which predates the camp.

It was when we saw the room with a sign claiming it was a gas chamber that was never used (how did they get this info that it was never used anyway?)

Also,if you look around the back of the building, the windows are painted so that you can't see what's in the rooms behind the gas chamber, what are they trying to hide here? The building is basically a quaint little cottage set back from the camp, no way would anyone in their right mind consider using it for homicidal gassings, it was after visiting the camp that I decided to look further into the whole subject, it wasn't long before my eyes were opened.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:37 pm)

Fascinating thread. For me it was no sudden thunderclap on the road to Damascus. I'm a New Yorker born and bred who grew up among Jews, ordinary and sophisticated. I can say I knew them well and they are indeed people with great strengths and accomplishments. It was at a time when New York Jews in particular were coming out of the ghetto, assuming power in the media and all aspects of our culture and they were seemingly all on board the Big H stories. Nobody opposed them. I was more interested in other things at the time having graduated from a prestige, Jewish dominated University at the time of the Korean conflict and typical of my goyish working class background pretty much went along with the conventional stories although I had doubts... because I did know the Jews. Their shtetl-learned credo, with all their strengths was "whatever was good for the Jews" and supporting Zionist Israel had replaced the Jewsih religion as their main thing (for many, not all). Anyway during the Korean conflict I was fortunate enough for some time to be stationed in Europe and in a headquarters where I got to travel in Europe and read a lot of "official" WWII history. I started having more doubts about the stories and was sure some of them were lies, e.g. Dachau, Katyn, the Nuremburg Tribunal stuff, and many others. I even had doubts about the gas chambers at Auschwitz but kept my mouth shut. I kept my eye on the topic but it wasn't until years later that a revisionist, now dead, got me seriously interested again, God bless him, that I started reading again, now having more time. The result: the more I learned the more convinced I became. The Holocaust in general is greatest fraud that has been perpetrated on humanity in the modern world. Here I am today. In for a penny, in for a pound. A lot of my old friends studiously avoid the subject with me but I feel secure about being on the right side for once.

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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:58 pm)

My epiphany too place when I was fourteen and reading a copy of Martin Gilbert's The Holocaust. I read it the first time as a believer, and the second time as a sceptic, based on a lot of what I had found within it. By the time I had finished it for the second time, I was - in common parlance - a 'denier'.

The fact is that to anyone with an enquiring mind and the ability to switch off the emotion and switch on the cold science of analysis, dramatic tomes like Gilbert's epic are exposed as the hackneyed rubbish they are.
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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:39 pm)

I think it made all of us probably want to do a "Charlton Heston."

I'm referring to Charlton Heston's character, on the beach at the end of the 1960's movie "Planet of the Apes."

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:21 pm)

Some doubts arose when Meryl Streep went to the gas chamber knowing what was happening to her and the other actors in their absolutely clean prisoners uniforms. And then she started to explain her comrades to breath deep bla bla ....

My epiphany happened when I read "The Rudolf Report" in 2002. This is really a great study.

Whether German parents tell their children the truth about the holocau$t may depend on the age. My parents were children during the war and they never told me the truth.
"Everything has already been said, but not yet by everyone." - Karl Valentin

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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:33 pm)

ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:Some doubts arose when Meryl Streep went to the gas chamber knowing what was happening to her and the other actors in their absolutely clean prisoners uniforms. And then she started to explain her comrades to breath deep bla bla ....


I remember this, and it reminds me of the truly ridiculous 'blue haze' 'Gaskammer' scene from War and Remembrance. I found it sad how such a great actor like Sir John Gielgud could have stooped so low.

That said I had to go to the toilet to avoid laughing out loud in the the presence of a number of others who had been emotionally sucked in by the scene.
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Postby Sushicotto » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Nov 15, 2005 3:51 am)

I "saw the light" during the build up to the invasion of Iraq. During that time, I happen to have come across Zundel’s name. I vaguely remembered hearing about him a long time ago and I just had this image of a crazy, evil man wearing a helmet; that’s the image I got from the media. I couldn’t believe anything that was being said about Iraq and I started wondering about the veracity of what was being said about that “racist, white-supremacist, hate monger,…” Zundel. I visited the Zundelsite and quickly realized that everything I had heard and read about him were all lies. I was also in shock about the possibility of this massive hoax so I started devouring (as much as time permitted) the Zundelsite and then moved to others (CODOH, VHO, this forum).

I initially had some doubts about the revisionists; how could I verify whether they were being honest? It was the revisionists’ word against the believers’ word. I only covered a small fraction of the available information but I rapidly became convinced that it was a hoax. I haven’t seen anything convincing on the other side, either proving the holocaust or disproving the revisionists.

One factor that helped convince me of the hoax was the way revisionists were so consistently vilified by the media and how this hoax is offered such unique legal protection.
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