Sir Martin Gilbert's Poetic Licence

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Hebden
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Sir Martin Gilbert's Poetic Licence

Postby Hebden » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu May 08, 2003 6:28 pm)

From Mr. Ronald Percival's Foreword to the IHR edition of Mr. Henri Roques' thesis The 'Confessions' of Kurt Gerstein:

To balance the record though, let us quote one example of a British writer whose manipulation of Gerstein's "confession" of 26 April 1945 (referred to in the thesis as T II ) is typical of so many other historians writing in English.
On pages 90-92 of his book Final Journey, Martin Gilbert tells the reader:
"...Dr. Kurt Gerstein, whom Eichmann employed as a poison gas expert..."
In fact:
- Gerstein never was a doctor of any sort. In the text quoted by Gilbert, Gerstein is not said to have been a doctor.
- The text used by Gilbert does not mention any person named Eichmann.
- Assuming that Gilbert means Adolf Eichmann, then neither in this text nor in any other does Gerstein claim to have met or to have worked for Adolf Eichmann; Gerstein knew so little about Adolf Eichmann that he could not even spell his name properly.
- Gerstein was never employed as a poison gas expert, by anyone. He says he witnessed one gassing by Diesel fumes at Bel­zec; he says he was instructed to change over the gassing method to cyanide, which he did not do; but throughout every version of his "confessions" and his interrogations by the French military, he states again and again and again that he personally was never involved in the use of poison gas.
Martin Gilbert continues:
"...the Belzec camp had a special compound for the SS, above the entrance of which was the sign: 'Entrance to the Jewish State.'"
- Again we meet that famous and so abused word "special," the ominous implications of which are discussed by Henri Roques on page 132 of his thesis.
All the military units in the camp have special quarters. How could the fire-fighting unit, for example, function properly if the personnel and equipment were scattered higgledy-piggledy around the cook house, the hospital, the transport yard, the operations office, and so on?
There is nothing "special" or sinister in the SS having their own quarters; on the contrary, it is one of the basics of everyday camp management.
But according to the Gerstein text which Gilbert was using, the sign outside the SS premises read: "Place of service Belcec of the SS Army." Whence, then, Gilbert's "Entrance to the Jewish State" outside the SS quarters?
There is yet more arrangement of the scenery to come. Martin Gilbert goes on:
"... from their compound ... the SS men could actually see the entrance to the gas-chamber, the doors to which had been draped wilth synagogue curtains bearing the Hebrew inscription: 'This is the gate of the Lord into which the righteous shall enter.' "
- Where did these curtains come from? This colorful bit of stage property does not exist in any Gerstein text.
ln his own description, Gerstein states that the entrances to his alleged six gas-chambers (not one gas-chamber) were on either side of a corridor inside a building, where they could hardly be visible from any separate SS compound. The wooden exit doors, through which the bodies were dragged and thrown into enormous graves, were obviously in the outside walls of the building and, self-evi­dently, the outside of a building has to be the visible side.
If we take Gilbert's reconstruction of the building seriously, are we to believe that someone who could not read Hebrew had put welcoming curtains over an exit door? And over only one of the six exit doors (leaving the other five bare) where the victims would be most unlikely to see it, being dead?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat May 10, 2003 5:41 am)

For all SIX conflicting Gerstein “confessions” see: http://abbc.com/aaargh/fran/ACHR/ACHR.a.html
(in French...sorry)

SS man Gerstein is frequently quoted by the 'holocaust' industry. Some howlers from this highly touted, alleged "eyewitness":

- Gerstein said that 25,000,000 Jews were killed (there were only about 16,000,000 in the world at that time

- at Treblinka, he saw "whole mountains of clothes and underwear about 35-40 meters high" ... (131.2 ft)!...but today we find no evidence of gassings, or any evidence for a pit which allegedly held 900,000!!!

- using his numbers of alleged victims per gassing and his stated size of the alleged 'gas chambers' at Belzec we get a rather crowded **40 people per square meter**

- The holocau$t Industry's acclaimed Raoul Hilberg cites Gerstein SIX times in his misnamed 'Destruction of the European Jews'. Hilberg finds Gerstein to be credible...that's scary

- If you add up the three camps (Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor) you get a total of 60,000 persons per day. That equals 21,900,000 per year. Makes you wonder why the Germans supposedly opened up Auschwitz. That means the three camps by themselves could kill more people in one year than the Germans were accused of killing in five years.

- He described a visit by Hitler to a concentration camp in Poland in June, 1942, which never took place.

- The German govt. in 1955 mandated that their schools teach the Gerstein "confessions" (Dokumentation zur Massen-Vergasung, Bonn, 1955).

- Gerstein curiously died whiled in prison before he could testify in court

From: Notes Made by Kurt Gerstein, An Engineer Working for the SS, on the Extermination Camp At Belzec:

"In Lublin, SS Gruppenfuehrer Globocnik was waiting for us. He said: This is one of the most highly secret matters there are, perhaps the most secret. Anybody who speaks about it is shot dead immediately. Two talkative people died yesterday. Then he explained to us that, at the present moment - August 17, 1942 - there were the following installations:

1. Belzec, on the Lublin-Lvov road, in the sector of the Soviet Demarcation Line. Maximum per day: 15,000 persons (I saw it!).

2. Sobibor, I am not familiar with the exact situation, I did not visit it. 20,000 persons per day.

3. Treblinka, 120 km. NNE of Warsaw, 25,000 per day, saw it!

4. Majdanek, near Lublin, which I saw when it was being built.

http://www.yad-vashem.org


It certainly appears that all is not what we've been told.

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Postby Germania » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat May 10, 2003 7:29 am)

Hannover wrote:- at Treblinka, he saw "whole mountains of clothes and underwear about 35-40 meters high" ... (131.2 ft)!...but today we find no evidence of gassings, or any evidence for a pit which allegedly held 900,000!!!


believer show fotos of alleged graves etc.:

Image

Image

the house in the background is allegdly the old gas chamber...!

mass grave...

Image

...heaps of ash in the background.

panaroma opening of alleged mass graves...

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bp04.jpg



- using his numbers of alleged victims per gassing and his stated size of the alleged 'gas chambers' at Belzec we get a rather crowded **40 people per square meter**

actually its 25 per square meter.there is an interesting experiment by revisionist researcher charles provan:

"WHY HOLOCAUST DENIERS TURNED ON ONE OF THEIR OWN
DENNIS B. RODDY, POST-GAZETTE STAFF WRITER
03/04/2001
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
REGION
A-12 (Copyright 2001)

The night he discovered the Holocaust, Charles D. Provan was reading-
again-the book that was supposed to put the matter to rest. Before he
killed himself in 1945, Kurt Gerstein, an SS officer, gave a lengthy
account of killings he witnessed in the camps and, boy, were his
numbers strange.

Men, women, children -- 700 to 800 in all, more than half of them
children-were forced naked into a 16-foot by 16-foot chamber in
Belzec, eastern Poland. Camp guards fired up a diesel engine. A
half-hour later, soaked in sweat and urine, columns of bodies stood
dead.

Seven hundred people in 256 square feet? Three people per square foot?
That's three human beings somehow crammed into the space of one square
of linoleum tile. Think about it. The Gerstein document, with its
ridiculous numbers, became a weapon for so-called "revisionist
historians" who regard the Holocaust as a wartime exaggeration or a
post-war hoax. Holocaust historians sometimes glossed over Gerstein's
dubious body counts, and Holocaust denier Henri Roques brought out a
handsome new edition of the Gerstein document with accompanying
analysis explaining the ridiculousness of the figures.

Provan, a Holocaust doubter, bought one right away. He believed
Roques.

"I just thought the numbers were way off," he said.

That December night in 1990, though, the quizzical Provan was struck
by a line in Gerstein's account about the victims: "... more than half
are children ... ."

"Hey, kids!" Provan gave a yell. Shouting "hey, kids" in the Provan
house is risking a stampede. A printer by trade, he is by avocation a
Protestant lay theologian who has written against birth control. He
now has 10 children.

Matthias, Tobias, Nathanael, and Susanna came running.

"Let's do an experiment," Provan told them.

The kids peeled to their underwear in an upstairs bedroom. Provan
moved a chest of drawers and an old cabinet into a corner. The kids
squealed and giggled as he crowded them into a tiny, tiny space he'd
created.

He grabbed a doll to round the number out to five. It had to be a
sight:

Provan, a bearded, bulky fellow with a large, pear-shaped face,
perpetually set in a smile, looking like a man who is about to laugh
or has just finished, corralling kids in underwear to see how many
could be executed in as small a space as possible.

His wife, Carol, heard the noise.

"What are you doing?" she asked.

"I'm gonna' see how many kids can fit in a gas chamber!" he shouted.

"Oh." A pause. "You shouldn't do that!"

After crowding the youngsters into the tiny space, Provan went
downstairs to his parlor with a hand calculator, stretched out on the
recliner, and did a little math.

The numbers worked. Those bizarre, impossible numbers worked.

"Then it dawned on me," Provan said. "He saw that. He saw that!"
Gerstein saw those children, those old men, those mothers, he saw them
jammed into a room, 700 or more at a time, bleeding, sweating,
urinating in fear. He saw the doors open, saw bodies so tangled in
death they lacked even the power to fall. If Gerstein was telling a
truth so improbable, the other stuff had to be so, too. It happened.
"

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/ft ... tte.010304

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat May 10, 2003 12:10 pm)

Hannover wrote:For all SIX conflicting Gerstein “confessions” see: http://abbc.com/aaargh/fran/ACHR/ACHR.a.html
(in French...sorry)

SS man Gerstein is frequently quoted by the 'holocaust' industry. Some howlers from this highly touted, alleged "eyewitness":

- Gerstein said that 25,000,000 Jews were killed (there were only about 16,000,000 in the world at that time


He didn't specify 25 million Jews but 25 million men ( in version TII).

In TVI (and, in words to the same effect, in TV) he states: "I estimate the number of those who, defenseless and unarmed, have been murdered at the instigation of Adolf Hitler and Heinrich Himmler, drawn without any possibility of resistance into those murderous traps where they were put to death, as at least 20,000,000 human beings. Because most certainly it is not just a matter of only some 5 or 6 million Jews European Jews who were thus put to death, but above all the Polish intelligentsia and a great part of the Czech, as well as the management classes of other peoples, for example the Serbs, but most especially the Poles and the Czechs."

For a person who had, let's say, a tendency to exaggerate, it could be thought remarkable that Mr. Gerstein's estimate of 5 to 6 million Jewish victims, apparently dating from May 1945, is so accurate. As Mr. Roques points out, the authenticity of versions TV and TVI is not beyond dispute.

- at Treblinka, he saw "whole mountains of clothes and underwear about 35-40 meters high" ... (131.2 ft)!...but today we find no evidence of gassings, or any evidence for a pit which allegedly held 900,000!!!


Yes, mountains of clothes and underwear at Treblinka but elsewhere it is a 35-40 metres high pile of shoes at Belzec.

- The holocau$t Industry's acclaimed Raoul Hilberg cites Gerstein SIX times in his misnamed 'Destruction of the European Jews'. Hilberg finds Gerstein to be credible...that's scary


Just to note that the new edition of Mr. Hilberg's work is apparently now available: http://www.yale.edu/yup/books/095570.htm

- He described a visit by Hitler to a concentration camp in Poland in June, 1942, which never took place.


We pointed out the problems with this before and yet you persist in using it:

He did not describe a visit by Mr. Hitler, he reported one as told to him by Mr. Globocnik. The date was supposedly the 15th of August, not the 6th of June. Mr. Golobcnik said that the Fuhrer had visited 'here' - possibly referring to Lublin itself and not Belzec, which, as it happens, wasn't a concentration camp. You are at least correct that any such meeting never took place.


- Gerstein curiously died whiled in prison before he could testify in court


We see no reason to dispute the claim that he committed suicide.

Here is a list compiled by Mr. Roques:

Statement of the Improbabilities and Peculiarities in the “Confessions” of Gerstein

1. Gerstein, who has twice been the victim of the Nazis before the war, voluntarily joins the SS and does so with the recommendation of the Gestapo.

2. At Christmas 1941, Gerstein is on the point of being chased out of the SS because the Nazi tribunal has learned that he was working there as second lieutenant specialist (Untersturmfuhrer F). But six months later, on 8 June 1942, he is made responsible for an ultrasecret mission: he has to transport to the Belzec camp 100 kgs of hydrocyanic acid (“confessions” of 26.4.45, T II; and of 4.5.45, T III) or 260 kgs (“confessions” of 6.5.45, T IV, T V, and T VI).

3. At Kollin, near Prague, Gerstein – who pretends in other passages of his “confessions” to be so prudent because of the risk of reprisals against himself and his family – states that he has let the Czech personnel of the Kollin factory know (T VI) that the hydrocyanic acid was intended for killing people (TIII, TIV, and T V).

4. At Lublin, the SS general Globocnik, who has never seen Gerstein or his travelling companion Pfannenstiel previously, reveals to them immediately “the biggest secret of the Reich.”

5. Gerstein reports other remarks by Globocnik; they concern the three camps which are functioning, for which the SS general presumably gave the following details:
Belzec: maximum 15,000 per day
Sobibor: 20,000 per day maximum
Treblinka: 25,000 per day maximum.

One reads nothing further in the manuscripts handwritten in French (T I, T II and T IV) nor in the German version (TIII). These figures could represent the respective totals of deportees arriving daily in those camps. But in T V and T IV one reads additionally the word “executions.” The last two versions even give an average utilization for Belzec and Treblinka, namely, 11,000 for Belzec (T V) and 13,500 for Treblinka (T VI).

We have consulted the Encyclopaedia Judaica to discover the dates of functioning of the three camps. For Belzec, it was not easy to know whether the extermination mentioned by the Encyclopaedia Judaica came to an end on 31 December 1942 or in the spring of 1943.

Did the exterminations of which Gerstein writes take place every day? On this point, the “confessions” do not inform us. We set out below the results of our calculations.

[We omit the given table which enumerates certain totals for the camps based on the above cited figures. We do so for two reasons. Firstly, reproducing the table is laborious and secondly, we don't appreciate the reductio ad absurdum approach in this instance. It reminds us too much of the method used by the Soviet technical experts at Auschwitz.]

6. Of the four camps mentioned by Globocnik, Gerstein claims to have visited three. But in five of his “confessions” the camp not visited is Sobibor and in one “confession” (T V) it is Maidanek that he has not seen.

7. Hitler and Himmler supposedly visited Belzec on 15 August 1942. Now, it is historically verified that this is a falsehood (see Professor Hans Rothfels – Vierteljahreshefte fur Zeitgeschichte, April 1953, No. 2). Some have alleged that this was mere boasting by the SS general. Impossible, because the lie would quickly have been discovered by Gerstein’s conversations with the officials at Belzec.

8. Dimensions of the chambers. In the “confessions” of 26 April 1945 (T I and T II): 4m x 5m x 1.9m, that is 20 m2 and 38 m3. In the “confessions” of the 4 and 6 of May 1945 (T III, T V and T VI): 5m x 5m x 1.9m, which is 25 m2 and 47.5 m3. But the engineer Gerstein writes in all his “confessions”: 25 m2 and 45 m3.

9. A figure of 6,700 persons in 45 freight cars, which gives more than 148 persons per car. There were 1,450 already dead on arrival; there thus remained 5,250 persons alive.

10. A little boy of 3-4 years, apparently alone, as Gerstein writes of him, distributes the small strings successively to 5,250 deportees to tie up their shoes together.

11. A piles of shoes 35 to 40 meters high (in the majority of the “confessions”) or 25 meters (T III); in the first case, a height of ten to twelve stories and, in the second case, a height of seven to eight stories. How are such heights climbed to place shoes there?

12. The figures of 700-800 persons standing on 25 m2, in 45 m3 (this is a constant of all the versions). Can one imagine a room of this area and this volume which would contain about 750 persons standing one against the other? Thirty persons on one square meter?

13. Unrealistic arithmetic (in two “confessions” of 6 May 1945: T V and T VI). More than half are children. Weight: 35 kgs (TV) or 30 kgs (T VI). Thus, Gerstein adds, 25,250 kgs per chamber. How this precise total, which is neither divisible by 35 nor 30?

14. The police captain Wirth, chief of the Belzec camp, interrogates Gerstein minutely (sic) to learn whether he prefers the people to die in a lighted or unlighted room (T V and T VI).

15. Gerstein says he is present at the gassing. He coolly consults his stopwatch. The Diesel engine does not start. Unperturbed and inactive, Gerstein counts the passing minutes: 50 minutes, then 70 minutes. Finally, at the end of 2 hours, and 49 minutes, the Diesel starts working. He says he records that at the end of 25 minutes most of the victims are dead, that at the end of 28 minutes a few still survive, and at the end of 32 minutes everyone is dead.
If engineer Gerstein is so cold-bloooded, the arithmetical errors pointed out in 8 above cannot be explained by the fact that he would have been distressed. On the other hand, even supposing one could concentrate 700-800 persons standing upright into a space of 25 square meters, then these people would not have been able to survive for 2 hours, 49 minutes; they would rapidly have exhausted the oxygen. Finally, if we suppose that nevertheless they could have survived, how would Gerstein, looking through a small window, have been able to discern in this extraordinarily compact group those who were dead and those living? In fact, the dead would not have been able to fall to the floor.

16. In all the “confessions” it is said that the gassing was done with an old Diesel engine. The word “Diesel” is repeated three or four times, according to the version, in the relevant passage. Previously, Gerstein, when telling of his interview with the SS general Globocnik, said that the latter told him from the start of the conversation that the gas chambers worked with the exhaust gases of an old Diesel engine.
Now the Diesel is an internal combustion engine which gives off little carbon monoxide (CO), an odorless and fatal gas, but a great deal of carbon dioxide (CO2), a suffocating gas which makes a person ill but does not cause death until after a lengthy period of time. It would have been more efficient to use a gasoline engine.

17. Gerstein declares (T V and T VI): “There are not ten persons who have seen what I have seen and who will see it…I am one of the five men who have seen all the installations.” Now, in his account, Gerstein himself quotes the names of persons who, between 15 and 19 August, would either have assisted or been present at the massacre of Belzec. There are already more than ten for this brief period of five days. These are:

-- Hitler, Himmler, Dr. Linden (15th August)
-- Globocnik, Wirth, Obermeyer, Heckenholt (every day)
-- Pfannenstiel, Gerstein (19th August)
-- anonymous persons:a big SS man with a clergyman-like voice who reassures the deportees on the fate that awaits them; an Unterscharfuhrer (noncommissioned officer) of the service who informs Gerstein about the utilization of the women’s hair; an SS man who, in his country dialect, states that the deportees can wait naked in the open air in no matter what temperature since they are there in order to die; the SS men who with their horsewhips lash the deportees entering the gas chamber; a Ukrainian who helps Heckenholt to start the engine; etc.

In any case, how can we accept it that the massive exterminations, perpetrated over many months and in several camps, could have fewer than ten witnesses?

18. The bodies are thrown into ditches of 100m x 20m x 12m situated near the gas chambers. The depth of 12 meters represents 3 to 4 stories of a building. The bodies are covered with a layer of ten centimeters of sand; only some heads and arms emerge. Here we have conditions favorable for the development of an epidemic which would not have spared either the SS or their auxiliaries.

19. The number of victims in the camp of Belzec and Treblinka: 25 million or 20 million (T V and T VI). These figures are unbelievable (see the opinion of David Rousset on Point 5).

20. Wirth proposes to Gerstein to change nothing in the method of gassing. Thus a simple captain of police refuses to follow the orders of an SS general, since Globocnik had ordered Gerstein to change the method.

21. In T V, Gerstein says: “What is curious is that no one asked me a single question in Berlin.” (He repeats the same thing to Commandant Mattei, who interrogated him in Paris on 19 July 1945, and he provokes the following reply: “You are charged with an ultrasecret mission, you do not accomplish it, and no one asks you to make a report on your return. That was hardly customary in the German army.”)

22. He has had the hydrocyanic acid buried on the pretext that it had deteriorated during transportation and had become dangerous. It would be impossible to accept this statement by Gerstein, unless on condition that we be given details of the operation. Now, during the interrogation of 19 July 1945, Gerstein states that he was transporting 45 bottles of hydrocyanic acid, one of which had got in bad condition; he adds that these 45 bottles were hidden 1200 meters from the Belzec camp. It must have been no small job to hide 45 bottles. Gerstein claims to have been helped by the driver, whom he did not know previously, and did not see again after their journey together in Poland, and who, according to Gerstein, belonged to the Central Security Service.

23. In T I, Gerstein says that after his meeting in the train with the Swedish diplomat, von Otter, he went to see him again at the Swedish Legation in Berlin one more time. In all the other “confessions” Gerstein says that he saw van Otter again twice (the diplomat remembers only one time).

24. Gerstein tells us that from the beginning of 1944, 8,500 kgs of hydrocyanic acid, were stocked at Berlin; he supplies no proof for specifying that quantity of poison. Then he goes on to speculate on the homicidal intentions of SS Sturmbannfuhrer Gunther, who would have given him the command to place these very large orders; Gerstein then reviews the categories of possible victims, estimating them at 8 million.

25. On the advice of Gerstein, the hydrocyanic acid is dispatched to the camps of Auschwitz and Oranienburg; the Obersturmfuhrer does what is necessary to insure that this acid will be used only for disinfection. In none of his “confessions” does Gerstein say that he has been to Auschwitz. In his interrogation of 19 July 1945 he does not mention Auschwitz among the camps he has visited. How has he been able to act at a distance?

26. Gunther envisaged killing with hydrocyanic acid in the open air, in the moats of Maria-Theresienstadt, the Jews who walked there. Gerstein dissuaded Gunther from carrying out this project which was, moreover, impracticable. However, Gerstein learned that in spite of everything the operation had taken place.
Hydrocyanic acid, which is highly volatile, cannot be used in this manner “in the open air.”

27. Gerstein has seen homosexuals disappear in a furnace (several thousands in T V and T VI; several hundreds in T III) in a single day (T II, T V, and T VI) or in several days (T III).

28. In Poland, it is testified to, that to kill people, they were made to climb the stairway of a blast furnace; that they were executed at the top of this stairway with a pistol shot and they were thrown in the chimney of the blast furnace (T III, T V, T VI). Can one imagine the scene? The people climb one by one to the top of the “stairway”; an SS man or an auxiliary waits for them at the summit in the fumes of the blast furnace in order to kill them.

29. At Auschwitz, where Gerstein has never been, several million children are killed by applying a pad of hydrocyanic acid under the nose (T V and T VI). The same method of killing children is mentioned in T II and T III, but no mention is made of several millions.

Etc., etc.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat May 10, 2003 1:32 pm)

- Thanks for the clarification of 25,000,000.....absurd regardless.

- 5-6 million Jews accurate? To clarify, I assume you meant how well it matched the standard mythology at such an early date.

- The Hitler non-visit details...I'll check. Your determination of 'Lublin' would not seem firmly based, however. On what basis do you assume Lublin and not Belzec?

- As for Gerstein's suicide, I'm afraid the suicide seems much too convenient. He certainly would not have lied so unless he thought a deal had been made. I do realize that those who had imprisoned him certaimly would not want to risk the possibility of Gerstein blowing it on the stand.

- Your list provides some excellent points, however there is one point that needs clarification, you said
We have consulted the Encyclopaedia Judaica to discover the dates of functioning of the three camps. For Belzec, it was not easy to know whether the extermination mentioned by the Encyclopaedia Judaica came to an end on 31 December 1942 or in the spring of 1943.


There is no evidence for exterminations, pehaps you were just playing along for the sake of argument.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat May 10, 2003 2:34 pm)

Hannover wrote:
The Hitler non-visit details...I'll check. Your determination of 'Lublin' would not seem firmly based, however. On what basis do you assume Lublin and not Belzec?


The meeting with General Globocnik took place on their arrival in Lublin on August 17, 1942. They travelled on to Belzec the next day. Here is how Mr. Gerstein writes about that first meeting (in version T III):

Your second task- still much more important - is to adapt our gas chambers, which function at the moment with the exhaust gases of a Diesel, to something better and more rapid. I am thinking above all of prussic acid. The Fuhrer and Himmler were here the day before yesterday. In accordance with their instructions, I must take you there personally.

Thereupon, Pfannenstiel asked: What then did the Fuhrer say? Glob.: More quickly! to carry out the operation more quickly! the ministerial counsellor, Dr. Herbert Lindner who accompanied him then asked: Do you believe, Herr Globocnek, that it is well-done and judicious to bury all these cadavers instead of burning them? After us could come a generation who will not understand all that! Globocnek replied: Gentlemen, if ever after us must come a generation so feeble and soft that it does not understand our great mission, then all the national socialism would have been in vain. On the contrary, I am of the opinion that we should put down plaques of bronze commemoration that it is us, we, who have had the courage to accomplish this great work so necessary. Then the Fuhrer: Good, Globocnek, that is my opinion too.



-
As for Gerstein's suicide, I'm afraid the suicide seems much too convenient.


For you also.

Your list provides some excellent points, however there is one point that needs clarification, you said
We have consulted the Encyclopaedia Judaica to discover the dates of functioning of the three camps. For Belzec, it was not easy to know whether the extermination mentioned by the Encyclopaedia Judaica came to an end on 31 December 1942 or in the spring of 1943.


There is no evidence for exterminations, pehaps you were just playing along for the sake of argument.


Perhaps. But the list is not ours, but Mr. Roques', as stated above.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat May 10, 2003 4:34 pm)

- Thanks for the info. on Lublin vs. Belzec.

- I'm afraid that you're reaching with the suicide point. The fact is he did die while in custody, which would serve the interests of his jailers. In my interest? It matters little more than a detail, since his statements render him and the standard story ridiculous on their own.

- your quote from the Rocque,
**We** have consulted the Encyclopaedia Judaica to discover the dates of functioning of the three camps. For Belzec, it was not easy to know whether the extermination mentioned by the Encyclopaedia Judaica came to an end on 31 December 1942 or in the spring of 1943.

, has the plural, "we", a typical Hebden trait; I stand corrected, thanks.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat May 10, 2003 4:58 pm)

Germania has posted some silly pictures, contending that they show evidence for the alleged 900,000 Jews supposedly buried in what would be an enormous sized pit at Treblinka. Let's look at each:

#1 - German soldiers entering a motorized crane, zero evidence for mass murder or mass murder cover-up....motorized cranes existed worldwide, in every army, cranes happened

#2 - another crane picture with a wooden house in the background, hardly a 'gas chamber', no evidence that it was, no evidence that a **wooden** house could be used for a 'gas chamber', notice that it's in plain view...silly at best

#3 - a hole in the ground...could have been anywhere, where's the 900,000 Jews? Ash in the background? Says who? Could be horse manure just as well, or just about anything. I see no reason to believe that there is human ash in the background. Is this supposed to pass for a legitimate forensic study of the site?

Captions beneath photos can be written by anyone to mean anything. Go ahead, visit a construction site, take a picture, then add caption..."grave site prepared for gassed Jews".

- the dumb Provan Belzec piece...I refer you to:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... ae2f89805c

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... ae2f89805c
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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