Germany / Zundel show trial restarts

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Germany / Zundel show trial restarts

Postby Goethe » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:34 pm)

Here we go again.
I love the feisty, aggressive nature of Zundel's team. I also note that the courtroom is filled with Zundel supporters.
Looks like more trouble is brewing for The Big Lie.
KANGAROO COURT SEEKS TO UPHOLD HISTORICAL HOAX

Show trial opens for Holocaust® dissenter

NSNS Thursday, 9 February 2006

MANNHEIM, Germany — The German-born author of the book
The Hitler We Loved and Why went on trial in Germany Thursday
for denying the so-called Holocaust and was applauded by
supporters in court.
Lawyers supporting Ernst Zündel, 66, attacked the judge as
biased and poured scorn on the government-funded, mock legal
team imposed on the defense. The court ruled earlier that the
lawyers Zündel had selected would not receive state fees.

Zündel, who has spent most of his life in the United States and
Canada, ran a revisionist website and distributed books by mail
exposing The Holocaust® myth. He is charged with incitement
to "ethnic hatred," "criminal libel" and "disparaging the dead."

The first trial of Zündel last November had to be abandoned after
the court in the southwestern town of Mannheim ruled that his
lawyer in defending him against charges was herself breaching the
law by "denying The Holocaust."

Truth No Defense

German judges have declared that Zündel is not allowed to base a
defense on the issue of truth or his claim that The Holocaust® is
a postwar invention. As a result, there are three legal teams in
court: the prosecution, the state-imposed "defense," and Zündel's
own associates.

There was a heavy police presence as the kangaroo proceedings
began. As Zündel, who has been in German custody since he
was summarily expelled from Canada in March 2005, was led in,
supporters in the public gallery erupted into applause.

When presiding Judge Ulrich Meinerzhagen threatened to expel them
from the courtroom, defense attorney Jürgen Rieger shot back:
"If you don't think your nerves are up to it, you should take yourself
off the case."

The court stalled on an objection against the judge for bias, saying
that it would be dealt with later. Other motions by Zündel delayed
the arraignment for several hours. The court rejected a demand by
Zündel's legal team that the state's mock defense team sit elsewhere
in court.

Free Not to Say Certain Things

Although freedom of the press and of _expression is enshrined in the
German constitution, that does not mean that the citizens of that
country—or others—are immune from arrest and prosecution for
exercising the very same so-called freedom.

On the one hand, Article 5 of Germany's Basic Law—created
in 1949 under foreign military occupation—clearly states:

"Everyone has the right to freely express and disseminate their
opinions orally, in writing or visually and to obtain information from
generally accessible sources without hindrance. Freedom of the
press and freedom of reporting through audiovisual media shall be
guaranteed. There shall be no censorship."

But the very next paragraph puts Orwellian limits on the same
freedom and outlaws all critical examination of blood-libel
"Holocaust" allegations.

German law therefore constrains press freedom, said Udo Branahl,
a professor of media law at the University of Dortmund.

"The penal law code says Holocaust denial is a punishable offense,"
he said. "That ban limits press freedom and overrides the right to
free _expression in the mass media."

Accusations of Hypocrisy

Germany is not the only European country to make "Holocaust denial
a crime. France, Italy and Austria have similar statutes on the books.
This calls into question the commitment of Western regimes to
human rights and so-called democracy.

European leaders who, in the name of freedom of speech, have
defended the printing of cartoons so offensive to the Muslims, now

find themselves facing accusations of hypocrisy in their suppression
of peaceful dissent and the discussion of certain controversial ideas.

Highlighting this contradiction, the largest newspaper in Iran is

holding a contest for the best cartoons on "The Holocaust." At the same time, Iran's President Mahmud Ahmadinejad has called for a conference to examine definitively Jewish claims of casualties during the Second World War.

The Iranian president has also upset Western leaders by calling
attention to the persecution and imprisonment by Western
governments of thousands of dissidents, such as Ernst Zündel.

Zündel emigrated from Germany to Canada in 1958 and later sought
asylum in the United States. At the instigation of Jewish pressure
groups, he was deported back to Canada in 2003 for alleged
immigration violations.

The German government has been trying for years to stop Zündel's
revisionist activities in print and on the Internet. As a German
national, he can be prosecuted in his homeland for alleged crimes—
including "Holocaust denial" committed on foreign soil.

Zündel faces a up to five years in jail if convicted. He has been in
prison since his deportation from the United States to Canada earlier last year.
"The coward threatens when he is safe".
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Postby FREE ZUNDEL NOW » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:01 am)

ImageFebruary 10, 2006
Day 1 Of The Zundel Heresy Trial
By Paul Fromm


Dear Free Speech Supporter:

In brief, Day 1 of the Zundel Heresy Trial in Germany ended with the judge refusing to recuse himself for bias. Former Toronto publisher Ernst Zundel could face up to five years imprisonment under Germany’s thought crimes law that outlaws “defaming the memory of the dead” by which is meant doubting the propaganda version of Germany’s villainy in WW II.

The Canadian Press story quoted below continues the same abusive lies concocted by the Canadian government at Ernst Zundel’s “security certificate hearings” which stretched from May, 2003 to November, 2004. Canada’s spooks, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) contended that Mr. Zundel was a “White supremacist” leader. In fact, Historical Revisionism and setting the record straight about WW II and Germany’s role in it were Zundel’s issues. Immigration reform or preserving the embattled European founder/settler people in North America were never his prime causes.

There’s a telling admission by the German prosecutor in the Canadian Press story: “Prosecutor Andreas Grossmann accused the defence of trying to prolong the trial ‘to use it as a forum for the views of Mr. Zundel’ and portray him as a victim. ‘You can't be a martyr if nobody knows about you,’ Grossmann said outside the court.” (Canadian Press, February 9, 2006) It sounds as if, like most totalitarians, Mr. Grossmann would be only too happy to have Mr. Zundel buried in a dark dungeon after a secret trial. Publicity is the light tyranny hates.

The Zundel thought crimes trial occurs against the background of a defiant Europe proclaiming its belief in freedom of speech and freedom of the press. The issue is a series of satirical cartoons published in Denmark last year and now reprinted in sympathy across Europe. Radical; Moslems have rioted and caused a number of deaths. They have called for boycotts of Danish and European Union products and burned Danish diplomatic missions.

Of course, on one level, the Moslems don’t get it and are trying to impose their religious beliefs – especially against representations of people or of Mohammed – on others. Yes, the Europeans are correct to support free speech. However, the canny Iranian government is pointing out that the Europeans, so loud in their defence of free speech, are the same ones – in lands such as Austria, Germany, France, Slovakia, Switzerland, etc. – who criminalize dissent from the Hollywood version of World War II.

Deutsche Welle (February 9, 2006) explains Germany’s hypocritical views on free speech: freedom of speech, yes; censorship no; but you can’t say that! : “On Thursday, Ernst Zündel, a Holocaust denier, faces a German court on charges of inciting racial hatred and defaming the dead. The case shows that while Germany guarantees freedom of expression, there are limits. … Although freedom of the press and of expression is written into German law, the country is generally more wary of free speech than the US, where Zündel's dissemination of racist literature and refutation of the Holocaust -- while distasteful to most -- was perfectly legal. … Article 5 of Germany's constitution, or Basic Law, enshrines the right of freedom of speech and of the press.

‘Everyone has the right to freely express and disseminate their opinions orally, in writing or visually and to obtain information from generally accessible sources without hindrance,’ states paragraph one of the law. ‘Freedom of the press and freedom of reporting through audiovisual media shall be guaranteed. There shall be no censorship.’ But the next paragraph puts certain limits on that freedom, which were deemed necessary when the Basic Law was proclaimed in 1949, just four years after the end of World War II and the downfall of the Nazi dictatorship.

‘These rights are subject to limitations embodied in the provisions of general legislation, statutory provisions for the protection of young persons and the citizen's right to personal respect,’ reads the second paragraph.

German law therefore constrains press freedom, said Udo Branahl, a professor of media law at the University of Dortmund.

‘The penal law code says Holocaust denial is a punishable offense,’ he said. ‘That ban limits press freedom and overrides the right to free expression in the mass media.’ In weighing the importance of free speech against that of individual rights, courts must consider on the one hand the severity of the offense caused by Holocaust denial to the Jewish population in light of the suffering inflicted upon it by Germany,’ the court wrote at the time. ‘This court has consistently protected the personal honor of those defamed above the right of others to make patently false statements.’ …

In the United States, where a broader definition of the freedom of expression has traditionally been considered one of the country's foremost foundations, this limitation on expression is often met with disapproval. ‘I've spoken with a lot of Americans, and they don't understand us,’ said Wolfgang Wippermann, a professor at the Freie University in Berlin who studies Nazism and right-wing extremism. 'I tell them, In your country, drug dealers also go to prison; these Holocaust deniers are like drug dealers, but dealing in mental poison'.

Free speech, yes! But it must be across the board.

I also append (see link below FZN) a spirited and defiant statement circulated by Dr. Ingrid Rimland, Ernst Zundel’s wife on the eve of the trial.

An Open Letter To Ernst Zundel's Judge

And, also, we still need your support for the cause of one of the world’s most famous political prisoners. The Zundel case continues in Germany. Please send contributions to help Ernst Zundel’s defence to CAFÉ, Box 332, Rexdale, ON., M9W 5L3, Canada or e-mail us your VISA number and expiry date.

Paul Fromm
Director
CANADIAN ASSOCIATION FOR FREE EXPRESSION


Source
"Either we have free speech.....
OR WE DON'T"


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Postby FREE ZUNDEL NOW » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:26 am)

Ernst Zundel could face up to five years imprisonment under Germany’s thought crimes law that outlaws “defaming the memory of the dead

Imagine that, imprisoning people for defaming the memory of the dead who never died --these zionist miscreants really take the cake, what will these freaks of nature think up next!







Image

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Ernst Zundel Staying Strong February 9 - Mannheim Court
"Either we have free speech.....
OR WE DON'T"




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Postby Juan » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:43 pm)

That photo with the ear-pierced guard says it all... the totalitarian dogma of liberalism (with holocaust myth included) is in place.

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:00 am)

Don't worry, fellows.

The judgement of this trial has been decided on a long time ago.

What we are observing here now is a true show trial, similar to the Freisler trials during the Nazi time or the show trials in the Soviet Union. This trial is a political trial and has nothing to do with justice.

Nothing has changed in Germany.

Anything critical about the Jewish Holocaust is perceived by the German top politicians, the elite, as harmful to their own positions and has to be suppressed.

The judges are their obedient servants.

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Postby Kiwichap » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:53 pm)

Goeth said
I love the feisty, aggressive nature of Zundel's team

Bergmann said:
The judgement of this trial has been decided on a long time ago.


Sylvia Stolz delivers!



CBC reports:

Judge threatens Zundel's lawyer with contempt
The trial of Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel was abruptly halted on Thursday amidst another day of squabbling and arguing between the judge and the defence lawyer.

Zundel was unknown in Germany before he was thrown out of Canada last year and extradited to face charges. The state prosecutor admits that now there's a chance his views will be widely heard.

Zundel is charged in the land of his birth with Holocaust denial and disparaging the dead. There's yet to be a single witness called, but there's been plenty of disruption in the courtroom.

Three neo-Nazis were fined for singing a banned verse of the old German anthem and a fourth man was jailed for misbehaviour.

All the old names of Holocaust denial are in Mannheim, where the trial is taking place, demanding their right to freedom of speech.

"Why are dissenting views about historical events forbidden in Germany today," asked Gunter Deckert, a right-wing nationalist.

Zundel's lawyer, Sylvia Stolz, calls the trial an "inquisition" and a "show trial." Her behaviour has so angered the judge that he's threatened her with contempt.

"I urgently warn you to stop insulting this court," he said, "and not to sabotage one of the biggest trials in postwar Germany."

Stolz replied by calling the judge "an enemy of the Germans" and a "tool of foreign domination."

"I am the monkey wrench in the system," she said after the judge adjourned proceedings to consider what to do next.

Zundel's long career as a Holocaust denier has returned to its roots in Germany, and now it is Germany's turn to endure the spectacle of Zundel on trial.
http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/MSN/world/n ... 60216.html


Zundel's lawyer, Sylvia Stolz, calls the trial an "inquisition" and a "show trial." Her behaviour has so angered the judge that he's threatened her with contempt.

"I urgently warn you to stop insulting this court," he said, "and not to sabotage one of the biggest trials in postwar Germany."

Stolz replied by calling the judge "an enemy of the Germans" and a "tool of foreign domination."

"I am the monkey wrench in the system," she said after the judge adjourned proceedings to consider what to do next.

I like this Sylvia Stolz, she has balls, she has put herself on the line and 'we' are getting huge results. I hear she stood on the steps of the court-house and said 'the verdict is already decided'

The Judge is:
an enemy of the Germans" and a "tool of foreign domination.

surely that means TRAITOR, doesn't it?

one of the biggest trials in postwar Germany

Lets hope so.
There was no holocaust.

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:05 pm)

Sylvia Stolz is completely in the right!

The Nazis used to burn books they did not approve of.

The present German political elite goes one step further, these lackeys of the Jews have the authors put in jail! Preferably for life.

And they have the nerve to call this the freest Germany ever!

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Postby Kiwichap » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:19 pm)

Bergmann, you said:
The Nazis used to burn books they did not approve of.

Ive heard that all my life!

Bergmann, what books did the National Socialists burn, because they did not like them? Please.

Cheers.
There was no holocaust.



Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Postby Kiwichap » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:47 pm)

I need to comment further.

Three neo-Nazis were fined for singing a banned verse of the old German anthem and a fourth man was jailed for misbehaviour.


The 'neo-nazis' label we can place in the dust bin of history.
Labels do not work with us.

Can Germans help me here?
"the old German anthem"


What year was this anthem penned, I'll bet it was years before Adolf Hitler was born, has nothing to do with Nat.Soc. or Adolf Hitler.

Cheers
There was no holocaust.



Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Postby PLAYWRIGHT » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:51 pm)

Kiwichap wrote:Bergmann, you said:
The Nazis used to burn books they did not approve of.

Ive heard that all my life!

Bergmann, what books did the National Socialists burn, because they did not like them? Please.

Cheers.


I can answer that. In the famous movie clip and photos of Nazi's burning books, most of the books were the works of Dr. Magnus Hirschfeld (yes, he was Jewish), who founded the Sex Research Institute in Berlin at the turn of the century. Hirschfeld pioneered work that Kinsey later expanded on.

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:50 pm)

Kiwichap wrote:
What year was this anthem penned, I'll bet it was years before Adolf Hitler was born, has nothing to do with Nat.Soc. or Adolf Hitler.

Cheers


They are probably talking about the Deutschlandlied.

http://www.serve.com/shea/germusa/dtlied.htm

The above website "denies" that parts of the Deutschlandlied is infact banned in todays democratic Germany.

More information and comments here:
http://ingeb.org/Deutschland.html

Think about the words in the anthems of any other country. The anthems that I understand, which are few, as I don't speak many languages, speak of strife. The French want to fertilize farms with their enemies' blood, Britannia wants to rule the world's oceans, the US wants to fight from the shores of Tripoli to Mexico. More modest countries speak of defense.

This anthem says:
Forget petty regional squabbling, unite for the common good and do nothing that would shame the name of your person or your product and thereby your country. Work with pride to earn and keep the admiration of the world.

What kind of nutcase could find fault with those words and that sentiment?
I can't understand it but they're out there. I'm ashamed that anyone takes their criticism seriously.

Now that "We shall overcome" and "Kumbaya o Lord" has replaced some of the much older, German soldier songs in the Wehrmacht, ooops, sorry, Bundeswehr song book, perhaps one of these two songs will be considered for a new, even kinder, gentler German national anthem.

Between, did you know that German law forbids all songs containing the words: honour, hero and fame? Law says: [punishable is] any text suggesting a soldier might become a hero or attain honour and fame.

A simple link to ingeb.org has cost more than one innocent German, grief or several thousand dollars in fines. Believe it or not.

I read that human rights groups are seriously upset that China is jailing citizens for "peaceful political protest" on the internet. Heck, in Germany you don't even have to protest, just link to my happy song page and you can get 60 days plus court costs.

http://ingeb.org/Lieder/deutschl.html
(Das Lied der Deutschen)


No doubt this song is also forbidden:
Das Lied der
(Maastricht-)Deutschen

Deutschland, Deutschland - unter alles
Dich zu beugen, ward gescham,
ja Du selbst vergibst im Wahne
was Dir blieb am eigner Kraft

Armes Deutschland - falsche Freunde
haben nicht Dein Glück im Sinn,
gäbst Du auch die letzten Früchte
Deines Fleißes für sie hin.

Einigkeit und Recht und Freihet
hast Du, Deutches Vaterland,
für verlogne Ideale
längst gegeben aus der Hand.

Ließest Dich in Ketten legen,
und auch Deines Geistes Flug,
suchend wahre Völkerfreundschaft,
endet wohl in Lug und Trug.

Deutsche Männer, deutsche Frauen,
macht Euch frei von falschem Wahn,
denkt an Eure Menschenwürde,
seid nicht allem untertan!
Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
müssen wahre Werte sein!
Die sie Euch entreißen wollen,
denen sagt entschieden Nein!

Deutschland, Deutschland - unter alles...

Frank Rennicke, 1996
<?php if ($Holocaust == false ) {deny_repeatedly(); } else { investigate(); } ?>
Homage to Catalin Haldan

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:44 pm)

From the German language forum, posted today by Bergmann:

Das Oberlandesgericht (OLG) Karlsruhe soll laut Meinerzhagen nun
entscheiden, ob die Verteidigerin wegen versuchter Strafvereitelung vom
Prozess abberufen werden kann. Mit ihrer Taktik ziele sie darauf ab,
"den Abschluss des Verfahrens gegen ihren Mandanten zu verhindern oder
in weite Ferne zu rücken". Nach genau vier Wochen Verhandlungsdauer
liegt auch das zweite Verfahren gegen Zündel damit vorerst auf Eis. Der
Angeklagte soll aus dem kanadischen Exil den millionenfachen Mord an den
Juden in der NS-Zeit geleugnet haben.


http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t= ... t=z%FCndel

Does this mean that the Zündel show trial has been put on ice? When will it recommence?

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:18 pm)

Bergmann recalls:
The Nazis used to burn books they did not approve of.



After the war and into the 50s films of the Nazis burning books was, next to the photos of the emaciated at German camps, the utmost symbol of Nazism. In those days, just before TV, news reels played at movie houses were the only place you could see film footage and I recall seeing the scenes of the burning books many times.

Hopefully someone with honor has copies of these films because I would say that most of the copies will be themselves burned so they can't be used to compare to the revisionist trials.

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:21 pm)

Here are two typical comments from a German usenet about the Zündel trial:

»The Zündel story is from the beginning a judiciary farce. It began by suppressing any doubts of historic events, by defining these events as juristic facts.
Thus the earth is a flat disk and at the centre of the universe.«

»Typical justice farce. You can go to any trial in any German court. You haven’t yet seen such puppet theater.«

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:29 am)

Goethe wrote:Quoting news:

When presiding Judge Ulrich Meinerzhagen threatened to expel them from the courtroom, defense attorney Jürgen Rieger shot back:

"If you don't think your nerves are up to it, you should take yourself off the case."


That's a great quote! I don't know how these judges manage to sleep at night. What a profession! Neutral application of wicked laws is no different from the hangman's role. I wonder how they see themselves and their hands washing.

Kiwichap wrote:Quoting news:

Zundel's lawyer, Sylvia Stolz, calls the trial an "inquisition" and a "show trial." Her behaviour has so angered the judge that he's threatened her with contempt.

"I urgently warn you to stop insulting this court," he said, "and not to sabotage one of the biggest trials in postwar Germany."


This "biggest trial in postwar Germany" thing, applied to the case of a single individual with absolutely no criminal accusation against him other than the petty charge of exercising inconvenient speech in a different country, is really a very telling slip of the tongue! It shows quite clearly that the judge's mind is already projecting the trial as exemplary in advance, even before any kind of evidence is produced or debated...

Kiwichap wrote:I like this Sylvia Stolz, she has balls, she has put herself on the line and 'we' are getting huge results. I hear she stood on the steps of the court-house and said 'the verdict is already decided'


And the right name: Stolz means something like "upright". Also, begging everybody's pardon for the digression, a very interesting figure, if I remind correctly from some photos I saw. I say, three cheers for Stolz:
:wav: Is she married? :oops:

Kiwichap wrote:Bergmann, what books did the National Socialists burn, because they did not like them? Please.


They certainly were no great enemies of censorship. See, for instance here:

"[...] the worst reputation was doubtless acquired by the Third Reich, which managed, within the twelve years of its existence, to black-list some 10,000 books. While these books were not burned, they did disappear from the shelves of bookstores, to be banished to library archives."

But then...

"But what is not nearly as well known is the fact that it was the Allied 'liberators' of Germany who staged the greatest campaign of book destruction that mankind had ever seen. Among the victims of Allied displeasure were 34,645 titles as well as, comprehensively, all school textbooks published between 1933 and 1945; not only were these no longer permitted to be printed and sold after the war - they also had to vanish from the archives of many libraries.[3] In the years from 1946 to 1952, the Soviet Occupation Power published four such lists ("Liste der auszusondernden Literatur", or list of proscribed literature) of titles earmarked for destruction. In accordance with the instructions in the censors' introduction to the second and third volumes, the first three of these lists also went into force in the western Occupation Zones."

Of course, nothing of this has anything to do with the Holohoax.
Last edited by ASMarques on Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.


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