Czestochowa, Berman: origin of Treblinka story?

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
Carto's Cutlass Supreme
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2385
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:42 am
Location: Northern California

Czestochowa, Berman: origin of Treblinka story?

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:21 am)

Many of the Treblinka storytellers have Czestochowa, Poland links. This place comes up all the time in the literature. Abraham Bomba is from there. Yankel Wiernik talks about people from there. I've seen it many more times also. Perhaps these storytellers grew up together? Or knew each other and then collaborated on the story? With the help of Adolf Berman at CENTOS.

Alexander Donat mentions that Wiernik was in touch with Berman before he wrote "A Year in Treblinka." (page 147 of Death Camp Treblinka, 1979)

It may turn out that the origin of the holocaust dates back to Adolf Berman, not Adolf Hitler. Berman was closely associated with Rachel Auerbach, and with Dr. Isaac Schwarzbart in London, a huge source of the early holocaust stories in the west via the so-called "Polish Government in Exile."

That would be my guess on the origins of Treblinka and of the larger holocaust story.

Ratatosk
Member
Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:42 am

Postby Ratatosk » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:24 am)

That would be my guess on the origins of Treblinka and of the larger holocaust story.


So, the larger holohoax story would originate from a couple of Jews from a Polish village? Permit me to laugh.

What we are dealing with is a hoax on the grandest scale. The hoax of the twentieth century as Butz put it. This hoax was sanctioned by the highest political circles.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10034
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:22 pm)

So, the larger holohoax story would originate from a couple of Jews from a Polish village? Permit me to laugh.

The "a couple of Jews" = "larger holohoax story" seems far fetched, but CCS's points about Treblinka make sense. They do show a coordination of sorts on various points.
Take Auschwitz for example, look at key 'eyewitness' statements that were contrived to fit the '4,000,000 murdered at Auschwitz' fraud which even the cultists now say is ridiculous. Look at the absurd 'geysers of blood mass graves', claimed by more than one guy, which indicates coordination of the lies. The examples are endless.

-Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Ratatosk
Member
Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:42 am

Postby Ratatosk » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:43 pm)

Hannover wrote:
So, the larger holohoax story would originate from a couple of Jews from a Polish village? Permit me to laugh.

The "a couple of Jews" = "larger holohoax story" seems far fetched, but CCS's points about Treblinka make sense. They do show a coordination of sorts on various points.
Take Auschwitz for example, look at key 'eyewitness' statements that were contrived to fit the '4,000,000 murdered at Auschwitz' fraud which even the cultists now say is ridiculous. Look at the absurd 'geysers of blood mass graves', claimed by more than one guy, which indicates coordination of the lies. The examples are endless.

-Hannover


Yes, he has a point. There is obvious coordination among Treblinka witnesess.
But, to say "That would be my guess on the origins of Treblinka and of the larger holocaust story." Is ridiculous.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10034
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:55 pm)

Not so ridiculous as to realize that Treblinka was like the rest of the scam, coordinated lies. In that sense CCS is quite right. Ofcourse, those lies have been shattered by guys like you & me, but nonetheless, coordination was attempted and the 'holocau$t' Industry is being hammered for it as we speak.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Carto's Cutlass Supreme
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2385
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:42 am
Location: Northern California

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:04 pm)

Yes, I think Dr. Adolf Avraham Berman was probably the originator of the whole holocaust story. He probably got it going, and then it took off.

Hannover understood what I said: I think a Czestochowa cohort might have been the source (with Berman's help) of the Treblinka story.

Whether you read Arad, Hilberg, or Wyman, they all talk about the 1942 Polish Underground reports reaching Dr. Isaac Schwarzbart in London. Then going to Rabbi Stephen Wise in New York, and from there to the New York Times. August 1942 I believe. Yet, historians still refer to the Polish "underground" like it's still a secret. LOL.
Berman was in that underground. And as the head of Jewish psychological and psychotechnical institutions in Poland (CENTOS) he's likely the originator of those reports. Here is what he said at the Eichmann trial:
...and in the peak period we had about 1,000 workers, teachers, tutors, doctors, psychologists, nurses and so on.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/e/ ... ion-026-02

It's likely that he ran a holocaust propaganda campaign fronting it as an organization to help children. At the Eichmann trial he brags that CENTOS was a front for underground activity, including military activity.

The propaganda was designed to scare the Jews not to get on the emigration trains. That's why horrific train stories are mixed into death camp stories. Same with the "Jews to soap" story. They were harbingers of the "death camps" story.

In the Zundel trial Hilberg stated that he could never find the origins of the soap myth. Look no further than Adolf Berman. That's my guess. That he would make up a myth like that can be seen with what this Doctor of Psychology tried to pull at the Eichmann trial. He held up to the court a pair of children's shoes, which he claimed to find in piles at Treblinka after the war. The problem is that the standard story is that they turned Treblinka into a farm after the war, and eliminated all traces of evidence. He gave an alternate version because he embellished on Rachel Auerbach's fake account.--the one with the bomb craters at Treblinka! She was getting carried away, so he took the liberty to get carried away even farther!

I think it's likely Berman is the originator of the holocaust story, and it took off from there with other groups.

It's kind of obvious when you think of it: a huge underground organization in the Warsaw ghetto, an organization with a staff of 1,000 with the word "psychological" in the name. C'mon.

There's a convergence of evidence. He knew every major player. And his brother? His brother had the best relationship with Stalin of anyone in Poland. He was the head of the Stalinst communist faction in Poland, so that connection probably helped with the story coordination in the USSR, possibly.

Holocaust believers are right: there was a guy named Adolf who started the holocaust.

From May 4, 1961 New York Times article:

Image


Image

Image

Source: The Death Camp Treblinka. Page 147. Edited by Alexander Donat. 1979

driansmith
Member
Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:10 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby driansmith » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:56 pm)

This thread is extremely interesting. I consider pinning down the origins of the Holocaust story one of the most important, but most neglected aspects of revisionist research. After all, it is very difficult to convince people that the Holocaust is a hoax unless you can clearly identify the hoaxers and the precise circumstances in which the hoax was conceived and perpetrated.

My own research has produced very similar results to those given in this thread. We usually find ourselves dealing with very similar types of people - leftwing Polish Jews, mostly members of the Bund - and we also find that the stories tend to enter circulation at times when the Germans were closing down particular Polish ghettos. Clearly, the aim was to deter Jews from allowing themselves to be deported, perhaps because as slave labourers they would have only ended up helping to sustain the German war effort.

With Wiernik's account, we seem to pass a crucial stage in the fabrication of the Holocaust. Prior to this, we just have vague allegations about what the Germans are allegedly doing to Jews. With Wiernik, we seem to have - I think for the first time - a coherent narrative that could serve as a model for others to follow.

Wiernik seems to have opened the floodgates. A torrent of Holocaust testimony begins to emerge - much of which soon reaches the Polish government-in-exile in London.

User avatar
Charles Krafft
Member
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:52 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Postby Charles Krafft » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:39 pm)

Dr. Adolph Berman's testimony at the Eichmann trial contradicts the official story that there was no trace of Treblinka at the war's end except a hastely erected farm house left to camouflage what had happened there. Here he presents a pair of children's shoes he claims he found among piles of clothes and skulls scattered about the Treblinka camp site when he visited it:

http://zamphir.litek.ws/mov_pages/22_mov.html

Carto's Cutlass Supreme
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2385
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:42 am
Location: Northern California

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:53 am)

Adolf Berman in the Eichmann Trial might be interpreted as a cameo appearance. Not unlike how Alfred Hitchcock would walk through a scene in his films as an extra. The psychological nature of his testimony on the witness stand mirrors the psychological nature of the larger holocaust story. Possibly because as director of CENTOS, he's the originator for what became "the holocaust." He likely started the Reinhard camps part and then others chimed in with the Auschwitz part, and the British Psych Warfare Executive got into it. Interesting that the PWE and CENTOS both have "psychological" in their names.

Treblinka was the big death camp in the beginning of the holocaust story. Auschwitz came later. Weirnik's testimony was frankly too stupid, as was the general Treblinka story (buried 700,000 then changed their minds and dug them up? C'mon.) So Wiernik and Treblinka faded into the background, replaced by Ellie Wiesel and Auschwitz.

A key document supports this. It is a House Hearing document designed to insure the "Punishment of War Criminals" which led the way to the Purim-like hanging of 10 men at Nuremberg.

The name of the document is "Punishment of War Criminals. Hearings Before the Committee on Foreign Affairs. House of Representatives Seventy Ninth Congress on House Joint Resolution 93.

The above gobbledygook was a pamphlet issued that had the minutes of meetings that occured on March 22 and 26, 1945. As well as documents submitted for the two sessions.

The date of this hearing is important. It is a month before US forces entered Dachau, and 3 weeks before British forces came into Bergen Belsen. Here's why it's important: One version of the holocaust story is that the allies finally knew about the holocaust when they came into these camps. That is the version most Americans believe.

This congressional document, however, shows that the holocaust story was already in place before that. But the holocaust version told in these hearings has Treblinka as the main death camp, with Yankel Wiernik and Samuel Rajzman as the main witnesses. Everyone in the Hearings room was handed a copy of Yankel Wiernik's Year in Treblinka. He was the main guy at that point.

It's an important moment that betrays The Lie. A month later Dachau and Belsen were replacing Wiernik and Rajzman's stories that would never have flown on a global level. Eventually Dachau and Belsen weren't strong enough either, and took a back seat to Auschwitz.

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3450
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:06 am)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:....Holocaust believers are right: there was a guy named Adolf who started the holocaust :lol: .
...

http://www.codoh.com/uploads/wiernik_in_donat.jpg
Source: The Death Camp Treblinka. Page 147. Edited by Alexander Donat. 1979
The text of the Wiernik book can be found here:
http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm

User avatar
Kiwichap
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:54 pm
Location: New Zealand

Postby Kiwichap » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:28 am)

No doubt the origin of the holocaust originated with Jews.

However, they sold this propaganda lie to the politicians of the UK + Commonwealth, USA etc. This lie fitted well with their objectives.

As Irving said, MI6 was involved and once the wheel was spinning - nobody could stop it else get burned in the process.

That was the cleverest thing these Jews did. Their lying propaganda is our 'official' wartime story.

To expose the holocaust will cost the heads and reputations of so many people, and I don't mean Jews.

When the holocaust topples, so will the Wests 'moral high-ground' regarding WWII.
There was no holocaust.

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10034
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:52 am)

This video:
http://zamphir.litek.ws/mov_pages/22_mov.html
is masterful.

Listening to this man go on & on is an excellent overview of the entire 'holocaust' fraud. And specifically, it is a prime indicator of the fraud of the Eichmann proceedings.

The liars have never kept their lies straight, and still cannot.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Charles Krafft
Member
Member
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:52 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Postby Charles Krafft » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:20 pm)

Hannover wrote:This video:
http://zamphir.litek.ws/mov_pages/22_mov.html
is masterful.

Listening to this man go on & on is an excellent overview of the entire 'holocaust' fraud. And specifically, it is a prime indicator of the fraud of the Eichmann proceedings.

The liars have never kept their lies straight, and still cannot.

- Hannover


The " 1/3 of the Holocaust" episode about Dr. Berman's testimony at the Eichmann trial may be in question because of a post war gold hunt at Treblinka that purportedly left the ground cover disturbed. He may very well have found children's shoes scattered about as claimed. When exactly was Berman there? There's a good true story about ex-Treblinka commandant Globonik's treasure hoarde is here:

http://www.istrianet.org/istria/history ... k-gold.htm

Nuremburg testimony about conditions of the camp in l945 seem to contradict the claim in the video that Dr. Berman couldn't have found any children's shows there.

On December 29, 1945, after the conclusion of his preliminary investigations, Lukaszkiewicz issued a protocol with 14 paragraphs, which was presented by the Soviets at the Nuremberg Trial as Document USSR-344. Paragraph 3 bears the title "Protocol of the tasks performed on the grounds of the death camp Treblinka", which forms the object of the judicial examination. From November 9 to 13, 1945, the examining magistrate of Siedlce, Z. Lukaszkiewicz, together with the State Attorney for the District Court of Siedlce, J. Maciejewski, performed the following tasks on the camp grounds:

November 9, 1945

"Current condition of the camp terrain", it says the following:209
"With the assistance of an expert land surveyor and witnesses, I made an exact inspection of the terrain. According to the measurements, the area of the camp is approximately 13.45 hectares and had the shape of an irregular quadrilateral. No remnants of facilities of the former death camp exist any longer. The only things that remain of the structures are: a ditch with remains of burned wooden poles protruding up, which lead into the cellar, wall bricks from the foundations of the camp’s domestic economics building and the site of the well. Here and there one finds traces of the burned-out wooden poles of the fence and remains of barbed wire. There are also some sections of paved walks that remain. Nonetheless, there are still other traces that hint at the existence and functions of the camp. In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay. In the southwestern direction, a portion of the camp terrain is covered by aluminum – enamel – glass and porcelain dishes – kitchen utensils – hand luggage – rucksacks – pieces of clothing, etc. There are innumerable holes and craters on the property."

Carto's Cutlass Supreme
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2385
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:42 am
Location: Northern California

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:22 am)

I didn't really have time to read the entire link, but I don't think that "istria.net" is a reliable source for holocaust info. It's site focusing on an area East of Italy.

Neither Raul Hilberg, Yitzhak Arad, or the US Holocaust Memorial Museum website mention Globocnik hiding a cache of gold. Rachel Auerbach is the originator of the "piles of shoes and skulls" story and she knew Berman, so that's likely why Berman said it. Auerbach's account is an obvious fraud and I think there's threads here on it. But even her account never mentions Globocknik's buried treasure. Her account is called "In The Fields of Treblinka." She says that they were digging because the Germans might have missed gold and diamonds that were on the persons of the Jews. But that's a lie too, designed to make the Poles look bad and continue to push for Jews to emigrate to Israel. Poles being "hyenas in the form of man" is her quote, which Hilberg then uses.

Suppose there was digging there. That still wouldn't explain "10's of thousands of shoes of little children" that Berman talks about, considering that Lukasciewicz's report didn't mention those shoes.

Lukaszkiewicz's findings is covered in Carlo Mattogno's book on Treblinka.

Auerbach, I believe, went to Treblinka with Lukasciewicz, but then they both wrote conflicting accounts, with Auerbach's an obvious fraud.

The surveyor that accompanied Lukasciewicz on that trip was I believe a man named "Trautsolt" and he determined that the burial pits were round and in the middle of the camp which no historians believes today. Faurisson's article on Treblinka mentions this surveyor, as does Mattogno's book.

This whole thing is complicated because we're dealing with lies upon lies, and we haven't even got into the bomb craters, there's a thread on this too here at codoh forum.

The key point is that there's no part of the story that Polish peasants dug up the ground and uncovered thousands of children's shoes.

What would have been the point of digging up 700,000 bodies to cremate them and thus destroy the evidence, if you're then going to bury 10's of thousands of childrens' shoes?
Last edited by Carto's Cutlass Supreme on Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10034
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:27 am)

What a joke.
the link says:
Gold is very heavy and the car’s suspension system made the rest of their journey a matter of some concern.

An inventory of the recovery was as follows:

Russian Imperial gold coins
810 5 Rouble pieces valued (in 1990 spot gold prices) at $64,800
475 10 Rouble pieces valued at $95,000

Austrian gold coins
1, 470 Imperial 1 ducat pieces valued at $88,200
975 Imperial 4 ducat pieces valued at $438,750
1,355 10 Corona pieces valued at $101,625
2,101 20 Corona pieces valued at $630,600
217 100 Corona pieces valued at $184,450
6320 Kronen pieces valued at $58,275
28 100 Kronen pieces valued at $56,000
4,150 25 Schilling pieces valued at 229,800
517 100 Schilling pieces valued at $310,200

Polish gold coins
4158 10 Zloty pieces valued at $249,480

French gold coins
802 20 Franc pieces valued at $64,160
50 50 Franc pieces valued at $22,500
142 100 Franc pieces valued at $60, 350

Swiss gold coins
907 10 Franc pieces valued at $54,420
1121 20 Franc pieces valued at $78,470

British gold coins
804 Sovereign pieces valued at $54,420
202 ½ Sovereign pieces valued at $15,150

And this is what they show us, some trinkets plopped on a couple pieces of paper by who knows who.
Image
What a laugh.

Krafft places trust in communist propaganda for which there is no evidence:
Siedlce, Z. Lukaszkiewicz, together with the State Attorney for the District Court of Siedlce, J. Maciejewski, performed the following tasks on the camp grounds:

November 9, 1945

"Current condition of the camp terrain", it says the following:209
"With the assistance of an expert land surveyor and witnesses, I made an exact inspection of the terrain. According to the measurements, the area of the camp is approximately 13.45 hectares and had the shape of an irregular quadrilateral. No remnants of facilities of the former death camp exist any longer. The only things that remain of the structures are: a ditch with remains of burned wooden poles protruding up, which lead into the cellar, wall bricks from the foundations of the camp’s domestic economics building and the site of the well. Here and there one finds traces of the burned-out wooden poles of the fence and remains of barbed wire. There are also some sections of paved walks that remain. Nonetheless, there are still other traces that hint at the existence and functions of the camp. In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay. In the southwestern direction, a portion of the camp terrain is covered by aluminum – enamel – glass and porcelain dishes – kitchen utensils – hand luggage – rucksacks – pieces of clothing, etc. There are innumerable holes and craters on the property."

So where is all this to see and confirm? Where's the site study? The photos? And where is the alleged mass grave for the alleged 900,000 Jews at Treblinka?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests