Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram

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Hannover
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Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:54 pm)

Here we have it, it IS the 'Hoefle Telegram' that was suspected and debunked here:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4548
Irving's 'holocaust' lite / but what '2.4 million document'?

I'm sure we're not seeing everything that was said, but there are some revealing quotes. Irving comes across as weak, regardless of this attempt to 'rehabilitate himself. To his credit he is quoted as saying:
“They’re doing very important work,” he said, adding that revisionists keep mainstream Holocaust scholars on their toes. He dismissed the charge that revisionists are motivated by factors other than the pursuit of historical truth, such as antisemitism.

It's also quite apparent that this forum is being read by the likes of 'Forward'.

Read on.

- Hannover

Holocaust Deniers Rankled by Their Standard Bearer’s Revisions

Marissa Brostoff | Wed. Oct 03, 2007
http://www.forward.com/articles/11755/

A famed Holocaust denier is revising his revisionist thinking — and the move is opening up a rift among his fellow travelers.

David Irving, who was released from prison last December in Austria after being convicted of Holocaust denial, recently announced that he is rethinking his position on the fate of European Jews during World War II. Irving now concedes that a mass slaughter of Jews may have occurred.

In a series of interviews, including one with the Forward, Irving outlined his new beliefs. After his release, he said, he discovered in a volume of trivial Nazi communiqués a memo from SS major Hermann Höfle that refers to “S,” “B” and “T” — code, Irving claims, for the concentration camps Sobibor, Belzec and Treblinka. He said he is 80% sure that the document is genuine and that no other piece of Holocaust evidence has seemed as legitimate.

“This is the only one,” Irving said. “If [the document] is genuine, it refutes the view of the revisionists that nothing happened.”

Irving’s current conclusions still lie far from those of mainstream Holocaust scholars. He believes that around 2.4 million Jews were killed by the Nazis, that Auschwitz was not a death camp and that SS chief Heinrich Himmler ordered the murders behind Hitler’s back.

Deborah Lipstadt, an Emory University professor whom Irving unsuccessfully sued for libel in 1996 after she described him in print as a Holocaust denier, was unimpressed by Irving’s new stance.

“Do I care whether he said 2.4 million or zero?” Lipstadt said. “Bottom line is, he’s an unrepentant, committed antisemite.”

Lipstadt questioned the wisdom of devoting airtime to Irving, who by many accounts craves the limelight.

“He should be met with a big yawn,” she said.

Indeed, the conclusion will likely have no effect at all on mainstream Holocaust scholarship, a field in which Irving has long been discredited. It has, however, illuminated a rift between those revisionists who refuse to entertain the possibility that the Holocaust occurred and those who say they are skeptical.

Irving confirmed that he has made many new enemies in the revisionist community and kept old ones.

“I’ve received a number of e-mails from around the world,” Irving said. “They’re not very happy with me at all.”

Among the unsympathetic is Michael Santomauro, who runs the revisionist Web site Reporters Notebook. “[Irving] is a flip-flopper on the Holocaust,” Santomauro said. “I think he’s positioning himself to sell more books.”

Irving, 69, began writing about World War II in his youth, often expressing sympathy for the Third Reich. His books were dismissed by critics and historians but sold well. In 1988, the American execution specialist Fred Leuchter’s claim that there was no evidence of gas chambers at Auschwitz convinced him that the Holocaust had never occurred.

Eight years later, Irving sued Lipstadt for libel after she described him as a Holocaust denier in her book “Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory.” Irving lost the case.

In 2005, Irving was arrested in Austria for having publicly denied the Holocaust in that country in 1989. He was convicted and sentenced to three years in prison, but the decision was overturned on appeal late in 2006, after he had served about a year.

One of Irving’s main allies in the United States is Mark Weber, director of the revisionist Institute for Historical Review. Weber countered the claim that Irving is simply engaged in a publicity stunt.

“Those people who are disappointed that Irving has switched [sides] shouldn’t be, because he’s always been ambivalent,” Weber said, adding that Irving’s current stance marks a return to the way he was thinking when he published “Hitler’s War” in 1976.

Irving agrees with this interpretation of his trajectory.

“You must not think that I’ve done anything to rehabilitate myself,” he said.

Comments Irving made to the Guardian newspaper suggest the extent to which he does not wish to be rehabilitated. Irving called the Jews “architects of their own misfortune,” responsible for most of the 20th century’s wars.

Likewise, he continues to defend those revisionists with whom he now disagrees.

“They’re doing very important work,” he said, adding that revisionists keep mainstream Holocaust scholars on their toes. He dismissed the charge that revisionists are motivated by factors other than the pursuit of historical truth, such as antisemitism.

And he is confident that his turnaround will not win him any fans in the academic world.

“I think that’s a dead duck.” he said.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:36 pm)

The 'Hoefle telegram'. Does anyone see proof that 2.4M Jews were killed?

Image
Irving hedges his bet:
... I am eighty percent convinced by the Hermann Höfle document (above), by my own cursory forensic examination of ink, paper, and typewriter, there is still a twenty percent chance that it is a forgery: the misspelling of Reinhardt (as Reinhart), the wrong math, the possibility that the authors simply worked backwards from a well-known figure (1,274,166) in the Korherr report of April 1943 (right) in order to authenticate it, the unusual lack of any register-number or date for the originating query ("Betr.:...") , the prominence of the names involved (Eichmann himself), the top state-secret classification GEHEIME REICHSSACHE found only once elsewhere by me so far in the tens of thousands of otherwise overwhelmingly trivial decodes, the five-page document somehow being bound into the archive file out of page-sequence (5, 1, 2, 3, 4): these are just some of the anomalies unique to the Höfle document.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/Irving/RadDi/2007/051007.html

Then why is Irving "eighty percent convinced"?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:20 am)

Also see:

Grubach's Letter to David Irving on the Hoefle telegram
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4563

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby grenadier » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:23 am)

Another possible anomaly a friend called my attention to
re this telegram is this;
It's strange that Höfle would sign as “Hoefle, Sturmbannführer’.
Why “Hoefle” and not “Höfle”? The umlaut could not be the
problem since we have "Ä" and "Ü" in the telegram.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:01 pm)

grenadier wrote:Another possible anomaly a friend called my attention to
re this telegram is this;
It's strange that Höfle would sign as “Hoefle, Sturmbannführer’.
Why “Hoefle” and not “Höfle”? The umlaut could not be the
problem since we have "Ä" and "Ü" in the telegram.


So the proper spelling of the man's name was Höfle? Not like Goebbels, with the same sound spelled "oe"?

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:13 pm)

I don't think that the Hoefle radio intercept is authentic.

The numbers are too close in line with the orthodox number of victims of the Reinhart camps.

Where are the transmitting/receiving hard copies of the radio transmittal?

The subject of the message is "14-tägige Meldung Einsatz REINHART" (two-weekly deportation status message of mission REINHART).

What happened to the deportation status messages of the other weeks?


fge
The Holocaust hoaxsters exaggerate and embellish a 60+ year old event in order to abuse the Palestinians and rob them of their land, while claiming a free pass for their barbaric conduct on account of the "holocaust".

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:44 pm)

A cryptic little comment by Irving:

Far superior to the self-serving Victor Klemperer diaries are the diaries, recently published, of a Mr Cohn, a humble German-Jewish teacher in Breslau, who applauded Hitler's speeches, understood the anti-Jewish measures -- and was still shipped off east to Minsk and never seen again: I quote from them in my forthcoming Himmler biography.


http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/History_07 ... lares.html

So was that shipped off east to Minsk, as in transported past the Reinhardt "death camps" or "shipped off east" - a diabolical super secret Nazi code for magical mass killings. Hmm..

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:46 am)

Laurentz Dahl wrote:A cryptic little comment by Irving:

Far superior to the self-serving Victor Klemperer diaries are the diaries, recently published, of a Mr Cohn, a humble German-Jewish teacher in Breslau, who applauded Hitler's speeches, understood the anti-Jewish measures -- and was still shipped off east to Minsk and never seen again: I quote from them in my forthcoming Himmler biography.


http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/History_07 ... lares.html

There he goes again. Irving baits the audience to buy his up and coming Himmler book which will no doubt ripoff large portions of the ground breaking book on Himmler by Joseph Bellinger.
Image
And Irving, ever so hungry for cash, will attempt to play 'holocaust' lite with his Himmler scam, regardless of the proof against such a position. Quite simply, there is no proof that Jews shipped 'east of Minsk' were 'exterminated'. None, nada, zilch. No one can produce it.

Irving is now all about making money. He will say anything for that purpose. His duplicity has reached new heights.

Boycott shyster David Irving
see: http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4567

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby MarkTurley » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:41 am)

My opinion - for whatever its worth...I really don't see what the problem is. Irving is an individual. he doesn't claim to represent you or the 'revisionist community' (if such a thing exists). He's entitled to say what he wants. And people are entitled to buy / read what they want and make up their own minds.

If he is talking rubbish for profit, he'll be shown up. All this 'boycott' stuff is silly.

Personally, my attitude to him is more one of a shrugged shoulder and a wry smile.

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Postby grenadier » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:43 am)

Laurentz, I put your question to my friend, who is a German
national, you asked:
"So the proper spelling of the man's name was Höfle?
Not like Goebbels, with the same sound spelled "oe"? "

My friend's answer was:

" I am 99% sure that Höfle spelled his name like this, with an
Umlaut. To be 100% sure, one would have to see the birth certificate. In
all German texts I could find, including Mattogno/Graf, it is written as
Höfle. It is highly unusual to use “oe” instead of “ö” in German writing
and yes, Goebbels was the exception to the rule. I am convinced that the
name was anglicized, as were Höß, Höttl, Göring and others. Strangely,
the English version of the telegram, taken from Wiki, has it spelled
correctly."

Perhaps the real issue here, is the timing of this “find”, as my
friend pointed out and the exact figure of 1,274,166,
down to the single digit, confirming Korherrs total.

He wrote to me:
"This is highly suspicious.
As mentioned before, who copied from whom?"

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:00 am)

MarkTurley wrote:My opinion - for whatever its worth...I really don't see what the problem is. Irving is an individual. he doesn't claim to represent you or the 'revisionist community' (if such a thing exists). He's entitled to say what he wants. And people are entitled to buy / read what they want and make up their own minds.

If he is talking rubbish for profit, he'll be shown up. All this 'boycott' stuff is silly.

Personally, my attitude to him is more one of a shrugged shoulder and a wry smile.

Irving has promised "real history". He demands answers from those he has asked questions. Now he offers neither. His former supporters need to know about his duplicity. As I stated in the 'Boycott' thread:
Historians who refuse to respond to fair questions about their assertions deserve to be boycotted by people who have financially supported them in many ways.

No one is asking him to change an opinion, we are asking him to give us the basis for his claims, we're asking for his honest reasoning. Simple as that. Yet he dodges just like 'holocaust' liars.

Irving has been quick to encourage financial investments by well meaning people into his 'real history' campaign. ... his dodging of honest and fair questions from investors and readers is not 'real history', it is shysterism.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:46 pm)

MarkTurley wrote:I really don't see what the problem is. Irving is an individual. he doesn't claim to represent you or the 'revisionist community' (if such a thing exists). He's entitled to say what he wants.


That may be true, however the enemies of truth do not see it that way & they will use the tactic of "Guilt by Association" to marginalize you.

It's hard enough working or studying in this field without being labeled one of Irving's Simpleton Schleps.

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Postby Hektor » 1 decade 5 months ago (Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:11 pm)

Hannover wrote:The 'Hoefle telegram'. Does anyone see proof that 2.4M Jews were killed?

Image
Irving hedges his bet:

Then why is Irving "eighty percent convinced"?
Does anyone see, any proof or mentioning of anyone killed on that document :P ?

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Re: Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram

Postby The Warden » 7 years 4 months ago (Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:26 pm)

1a. What's Irving's current "believable percentage" these days?
1b. If there has been a change, what changed the percentage?

2. I was wandering the halls of [sarcasm] my favorite information source, Wikipedia [/sarcasm], searching for mentions of the Hoefle telegram, and ran across the following:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treblinka_ ... ermination

They tie in this little gem which somehow means mass murder via transport.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bunde ... rdnung.jpg

Image
http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/archive ... 9-0049-012

Captioned: Nazi timetable for a "special resettlement train" (Umsiedlersonderzug) from Lukow to Siedlce to Treblinka, August 1942
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

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Re: Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram

Postby Hannover » 5 years 1 month ago (Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:41 pm)

This came up in another thread, Letter of Himmler to Müller 20 November 1942

I thought I'd bring it back.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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