Solzhenitsyn and the Einsatzgruppen?

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
comrade seinfeld
Member
Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:27 pm

Solzhenitsyn and the Einsatzgruppen?

Postby comrade seinfeld » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:15 am)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/articl ... 84,00.html

The above link is to an article in The Guardian concerning a new book by Solzhenitsyn which would seem to confirm the Nazi ideological notion that the Jews were the mainstay of the Soviet system. As was apparently the case the main target of the Einsatzgruppen were the Jews, especially those recognised as being Communists, or who were found to be partisans, which would especially relate to their civilian relatives.

Now, of course, the main premise of the conventional Holocaust narrative is that the Nazis intended to physically exterminate as many Jews as possible, by virtue of their race. I would not be inclined to believe that, and would assume that if the Einsatzgruppen disproportionately targeted Jews, it was because the Nazis ideologically regarded Jews in the Soviet Union, and perhaps Poland, as being inherently Communist supporters.

Would those who are revisionists consider that what Solzhenitsyn has recently written confirm the Nazi ideological notion concerning the relationship of the Jews to Communism? I have not actually come across any material relating Solzhenitsyn's book to the Nazi invasion, and the subsequent alleged atrocities concerning the Jews, but I would imagine that it would logically follow in relation to the Nazi ideological notions concerning the role of the Jews in the Soviet Union.

Below is a link to a review of Solzhenitsyn's book:
http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/141

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9892
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:05 am)

comrade seinfed asks:

Would those who are revisionists consider that what Solzhenitsyn has recently written confirm the Nazi ideological notion concerning the relationship of the Jews to Communism?


Revisionists? Those that confirm the Judeo-Communist connection are legion, read on for a few examples.

Winston Churchill wrote in the London Sunday Herald (Feb. 8, 1920):

"From the days of the Spartacus Weishaupt to Marx, Trotzky, Bela Kun, Rosa Luxembourg and Emma Goldmann, there is a worldwide conspiracy busy to destroy our civilization, and to change our society on the basis of unhampered developments of ugly greed, and an impossible dream of equality of all."
"This conspiracy with its relentless undermining of every existing institution was able to engage a gang of unscrupulous people from the underworld of the larger cities of Europe and America to take over Russia, and make itself masters of this large empire. It is not necessary to overestimate the role which these godless Jews played in the establishment of Bolshevism."


The American Hebrew September 10, 1920:

"The Bolshevist revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish brains, of Jewish dissatisfaction, of Jewish planning, whose goal is to create a new order in the world. What was performed in so excellent a way in Russia, thanks to Jewish brains, and because of Jewish dissatisfaction and by Jewish planning, shall also, through the same mental and physical forces, become a reality all over the world."


The London Jewish Chronicle [April 4, 1919]:

"There is much in the fact of Bolshevism itself, in the fact that so many Jews are Bolshevists. The ideals of Bolshevism are consonant with many of the highest ideals of Judaism."


Rothman and S. Robert Lichter, in their book "Roots of Radicalism: Jews, Christians and the Left," 1982/1996, Transaction Publishers, page 85, softcover.

"Most importantly, however, they [Jews] violently attacked everything about German society. They despised the military, the judiciary, and the middle class in general."


- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

montague
Member
Member
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 4:57 am

Postby montague » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:22 am)

I think the situation with the Jews vis-a-vis the Soviet Union in the twenties, thirties and forties is analogous to to that of the Jews vis-a-vis the United States. Everyone knew, during the Judeo-Bolshevik era, that Jews were running the show. Even Winston Churchill wrote an article on it.
Likewise, everyone knows now that Jews and the Israel lobby run America and determine American foreign policy. It's obvious to anyone with half a brain that Bush and US politicians are hopelessly biased towards Israel, and that Jewish neoconservatives with strong Israel links are behind the Iraq war.

It's worth noting that the Soviet regime under Lenin and Trotsky began killing and starving people in the millions - making it the worst mass-murdering government in recorded history. Understandably, the peoples of Europe didn't want that model transferred to their own countries.

Nazism arose as a means of dealing with that particular political problem: the support of Jews, inside and outside the USSR, for communist subversion. (Germany thwarted a near-communist revolution in 1918, led by Jews such as Rosa Luxembourg; ditto Hungary, which put down the communist revolution lead by Bela Kuhn (Cohen)). It was one of the most successful in dealing with the problem (by which I don't mean exterminating Jews, of course), which is one of the reasons why it is remembered, and why it is so despised by Jews (who are nearly all hopelessly pro-Soviet, up until 1948) today.

You could say that the USSR before 1948 was the focus of Jewry's national aspirations, just as Israel is today: USSR was a sort of Promised Land.

Rupert.

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:46 pm)

A Taboo Subject

Although officially Jews have never made up more than five percent of the country's total population, they played a highly disproportionate and probably decisive role in the infant Bolshevik regime, effectively dominating the Soviet government during its early years. Soviet historians, along with most of their colleagues in the West, for decades preferred to ignore this subject. The facts, though, cannot be denied.

With the notable exception of Lenin (Vladimir Ulyanov), most of the leading Communists who took control of Russia in 1917-20 were Jews. (Ed. note: Lenin has since been discovered by a former Soviet general, who had access to the KGB archives, in archives within archives that Lenin was a Jew also) Leon Trotsky (Lev Bronstein) headed the Red Army and, for a time, was chief of Soviet foreign affairs. Yakov Sverdlov (Solomon) was both the Bolshevik party's executive secretary and - as chairman of the Central Executive Committee - head of the Soviet government. Grigori Zinoviev (Radomyslsky) headed the Communist International (Comintern), the central agency for spreading revolution in foreign countries. Other prominent Jews included press commissar Karl Radek (Sobelsohn), foreign affairs commissar Maxim Litvinov (Wallach), Lev Kamenev (Rosenfeld) and Moisei Uritsky.


Bela Kuhn (Cohen)


Ah, the great name changers. See that Bela man. He was a ' ZIONIST PSYCHOPATH' he was so deranged, he had to be banged up in a mental asylum.

Also remember, most the commisars, who were responsible for the Collectivisation (Artificially created famines) in the Ukraine were Jews.

There is 'NO' memorials for these millions of peasants. And you won't be having their story, rammed down your children's throats. No, there is but only one victim 'The eternal victim'. And we all know who that is.

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:50 pm)

"In the Bolshevik era, 52 percent of the membership of the Soviet communist party was Jewish, though Jews comprised only 1.8 percent of the total population." (Stuart Kahan (grandson of Lazar Kagaonvich), The Wolf of the Kremlin, p. 81)


"We [Jews] have erred, my friend, we have most grievously erred.... We who have posed as the saviours of the world, we who have boasted of having given it the Saviour, we are today nothing else but the world's seducers, its destroyers, its incendiaries, its executioners..." (Dr. Oscar Levy, preface to the book The World Significance of the Russian Revolution by Professor George Pitts-Rivers of Oxford University)


"In 1897 was founded the Bund, the union of Jewish workers in Poland and Lithuania. . . They engaged in revolutionary activity upon a large scale, and their energy made them the spearhead of the Party" (Article on "Communism" by Harold J. Laski, Encyc. Brit., Vol. III, pp 824-827).


Occasionally, even today some Jewish historians will acknowledge this disproportionate Jewish involvement in Russian communism. Norman Cantor, professor of history at New York University, confirmed: "Half of the six members of the politburo that was the supreme government of Soviet Russia in 1920 were Jews. The first head of the Soviet secret police was Jewish. Jews were prominent in the leadership of the Communist party in Germany, Hungary, and Austria. In the 1920s close to half the members of the small and politically insignificant American Communist party were Jewish." ("The Sacred Chain - A History of the Jews," Norman F. Cantor, HarperCollins, 1995)



The Jewish Encyclopedia acknowledges the preponderance of Jews among the Soviet power structure and that large numbers of Russians associated Jews with Bolsheviks: "Whatever the racial antecedents of their top man, the first Soviet commissariats were largely staffed with Jews. (....) The White Armies which opposed the Bolshevik government linked Jews and Bolsheviks as common enemies" (Univ. Jew Encyc., Vol. I, p. 336). The recent tome, "The Black Book of Communism", makes several references to this fact when mentioning the numberous anti-Soviet rebellions that occurred in the first three decades of Bolshevism where the people were speaking against "Jews and Bolsheviks." (....)


In another book, Cantor provides confirmation of Jewish prominence in other important areas of the communist government: " (....) Jews also took leadership roles, down into the early 1950s, in the Communist parties of Germany, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Rumania. In the struggle for succession to Lenin in the 1920s, leading to the defeat and exile of the Jewish Trotsky Bronstein), most of the high-level Soviet Jews made the mistake of supporting Stalin, an Asiatic anti-Semite who in the purge trials in the mid-1930s eventually eliminated these Jewish "Old Bolsheviks." But even to some degree after the Great Purge, Jews were still prevalent in powerful Soviet government positions and many of Stalin's cohorts in the 1940s had Jewish wives. Here is a cool appraisal of Stalin's Jews, published in 1994 by the Russian writer Arkady Vaksberg.



(Skeptics pay particular attention to this last bragging paragraph - ipm)

'During the heyday of the Cold War, American Jewish publicists spent a lot of time denying that-as 1930s anti-Semites claimed-Jews played a disproportionately important role in Soviet and world Communism. The truth is until the early 1950s. Jews did play such a role, and there is nothing to be ashamed of. In time, Jews will learn to take pride in the record of the Jewish Communists in the Soviet Union and elsewhere. It was a species of striking back." -- The Jewish Experience, "Stalin's Jews", pp. 364, Norman F. Cantor, Castle Books, 1996. (Dr. Cantor is the author of several books on Jewish history and a professor of history at New York University.)


JEWISH-LED SECRET POLICE MURDER MILLIONS

It was during this time that Bolshevik Commissars (many of them Jews) conducted a horrendous reign of terror against the (....) Russian population. In one operation alone, they deliberately starved to death 8 to 15 million Ukrainian gentile farmers during the 1920's in one of the most vile campaigns in history orchestrated by Stalin's brother-in-law and the most powerful Jew in the USSR, Lazar Kaganovich. Of course, Kaganovich certainly wasn't the only Jew involved: "[I]n (the) Ukraine Jews made up nearly 80 percent of the rank-and-file Cheka agents," reports W. Bruce Lincoln, an American professor of Russian history. Veteran Chicago Tribune Baltic correspondent, Donald Day, exposed yet another important Jew involved in the Ukrainian crimes: "Artemic Bagratovich Khalatov (Jewish) headed that branch of the Cheka which organized the food supply of the Soviets. He organized the punitive expeditions of the Cheka which confiscated the grain and foodstuffs from the peasants. A policy whose direct result was the great famine of 1920-21."




Although it is true that Joseph Stalin eventually reduced the number of Jews in the highest government positions because many, like Trotsky, became his political rivals, Jews remained one of the most prominent groups in the NKVD. Nonetheless, according to a recent book written by two Russian authors, N.K. Petrow and K.W. Skorkin (Title: "Who led the NKWD, 1934-1941?" Publisher: N.G. Ochotin, A.B. Roginskij, Verlag Swenja, Moscow, 1999) "Even in absolute numbers, the Jews...made up the largest group in the leadership of the Stalinist Secret Police. (....)

They then list the proportions of various ethnic groups in the Soviet secret police:

Jews: 39 %

Russians and Ukrainians 36 %

Latvians, Germans, Poles 14%

Others 12%

This is particularly significant since the Jews made up only 1% of the Russian population!

User avatar
Moderator
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1656
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:23 am

Postby Moderator » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:29 pm)

Ok, let's bring this back to the topic of this forum.

It's been made clear that Jews were the driving force behind communism, so how does this effect the so called 'holocaust' as alleged?

Thanks, Moderator
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

SergeyRomanov
Member
Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:38 pm

Postby SergeyRomanov » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:07 pm)

It's been made clear that Jews were the driving force behind communism


But, of course, it hasn't. Citing fraudulent books like "Wolf of Cremlin" and articles whose ignorant authors state that Kaganovich was "Stalin's brother-in-law" proves only that the poster knows not what he is talking about.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9892
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Sep 19, 2003 6:30 pm)

But you're ignoring the large numbers of quotes here. Why?

You really should try reading the material that is posted.

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9892
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:18 pm)

Makes no difference, that quote and all the rest stand unrefuted.

Gee, even righteous Jews admit it.

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:32 am)

so how does this effect the so called 'holocaust' as alleged?



I should say that is fairly obvious, just by the fact even though 'The great terror' was by far the biggest genocide in history, it is not classed as a Holocau$t. In fact, it is completely irrelevent. This is odd considering those who wail 'I am a victim' for all eternity, perpetrated it.

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:49 pm)

Even though it is virtually impossible to find photo's and information of the 'Great terror' because it took place in the far reaches of 1930's communist Russia. There has been far more serious research than has ever took place concerning the Holocau$t Industry.


You will 'NEVER EVER' find any Scientific or Archeological study of any HOLOHOAX sites

http://www.freeserbia.net/Articles/2002/Skeletons.html


More exhumations (Unlike the HOLOHOAX)

http://www.freeserbia.net/Articles/2002/TurnsAway.html


Image

Lazar Moiseivich Kaganovich, known later as the "Butcher of Ukraine."
Kaganovich, the most powerful Jew in the Soviet Union, supervised the
collectivization of Ukrainian farms, beginning in 1929.


Zionist Jew Berija's signed order for Katyn massacres (In Hungarian)
Notice how the killing method of the Jews is the same both for Katyn
and the great purges. i.e single bullet shot to nape of neck.

http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/bibl/mil/ww ... 30413.html



Image

Vynntsa, Ukraine, here mass graves dating from 1937 were opened and
hundreds of bodies exhumed. The authorities had built a park and
theatre over the site. Such macabre discoveries continue to this day.
In 1997, over 1 100 bodies were exhumed in St. Petersburg and another 9000 bodies at a mass grave in Karelia forest.



Image

Corpses in the Volga region; some of the 5 million victims of Bolshevik
policies of man made famine to starve out resistance to Communism in
the Volga region in 1922.


Notice how NO archeological excavations have ever been carried out when it concerns the one and only HOLOHOAX. Everywhere except the HOLOHOAX.

http://www.soton.ac.uk/~jb3/FORENSIC/forensic.html

Archaeologists investigate Stalinism and war crimes in ex USSR. In the
late 1980s many cases of political mass-killings inside USSR became
known, due to the ending of the Soviet Union. It is thought that
millions of people were killed during Stalin's years of the 'Great
Terror'. A number of mass graves have been found at Kuropaty Woods, not far from Minsk. These graves were exhumed and investigated by
archaeologists, and remains from 391 people were found. The remains all
showed evidence of execution at the site. The executed were prisoners
from a jail located nearby. It was not possible to identify a single person as records of the executions were never made or destroyed years ago. Although, there was one source of information of who the people in
these graves were. Some criminal files from the 1950s describes cases
of young people who had crossed the border in 1937-38. All of them had

been sent to prison and later executed as 'enemies of the people'. This
gave a clue about who the people in the graves were, and also who had
executed them. More than forty former NKVD personnel were identified to have participated in these mass-killings, some of them had even been
sentenced to jail already in the late 1930s. Today most of them are dead of natural reasons. These executioners themselves became victims of Stalinism. The case with the mass-killings was concealed, and all the files destroyed. The NKVD executioners were sent to jail, convicted or 'violation of legality'. The NKVD personnel were sent to jail

because 'Stalin did not know what they were doing' and 'why they had
carried out the mass-killings'. Of course, that was not true. For sure
Stalin had all the information about what was going on at Kuropaty
Woods and other places as well. It is thought that some 30,000 people
are buried in the 510 presumed graves at Kuropaty Woods, but according
to archaeologists, the number is much higher. There are evidence for as
many as 900 graves, but some of them are now under the ring road around the forest (Conquest 1989: 239-46).

Archaeological investigations of mass killings were also done in
Ukraine, this time by the Australian War Prosecution Team. At the site
of Serniki, some 550 people were found in one single grave. These
remains belonged mostly to women and children, the only male remains
were those from very old men. The majority of the remains showed entry
and exit wound of bullets in their skulls, some of them showed signs of
having been clubbed. These people were killed in the early 1940s, shot
down into the grave. At one end of the grave the remains were in
disorder, which would indicate that there might have been panic at that
end, where the people waited to be shot. Another Ukraine mass grave is
located at Ustinovka. This site was excavated in 1991 by the same team
as at Serniki. This grave represent one of the worst war crimes in
Ukraine. According to rumours, a hundred adults had been taken away to
a waiting grave and shot down into it. When that was done, the rumour
says, one fellow asked where the children were. The executioners went
back to the town, collected the children and shot them too. A
specialist in forensic dentistry had join the team, Dr Chris Griffiths.

He was needed if the rumour turned out to be true, as he would be able
to age the children through the stages of eruption of the milk teeth
and permanent teeth. About twenty children were found in the grave. The
oldest was around 12 or 13 years old and the youngest one only six
months old. The children were buried in a layer above the adults. So
the rumour showed to be frighteningly accurate. The only thing that
does not agree between the story and the evidence is the fact that the
adults bodies had been covered before the children were shot into the
grave. This is known from the 20 centimetres layer of soil between the
adults and the children. No Australians were found guilty by the courts
after the investigation made by the Australian War Prosecution Team.

But the team managed to bring forward new material of three particular
episodes (of which two are described here) in the Holocaust that would
be hard for anyone to deny (Wright 1995). These facts about Stalinist
terror and the terrible mass-killings of innocent people in Ukraine was
brought to the public by archaeological investigations. The truth
behind these events of mass-killings was known from archaeological
evidence, and is very hard to contradict or deny. Although these events
took place so long ago that it is difficult to use the evidence to find
the guilty people to prosecute them for their crimes. But what is
important here is not to find someone to blame, but simply to find out
the truth behind some political ideologies.



Notice how no mention of the Zionist commisars is ever mentioned.

Also this little sentence 'not to find someone to blame' Yes we all know why that is. It does not seem to matter if it is blamed on Germans. You can blame them all you want.

Anyway, as I say finding photo's from 1930'S Communist Ukraine is fairly difficult. Unlike the German camps which were completely over run by the west. It seems odd that more evidence (Including archeological) is available from the Ukraine, than is available for the Holohoax.

Where are the Archeological and forensic studies concerning the Holohoax sites

It is obvious why they will not dig, because there is nothing there

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Sep 21, 2003 12:27 pm)

You will 'NEVER EVER' find any Scientific or Archeological study of any HOLOHOAX sites


Sorry, there are some Scientific investigations by Leuchter and Rudolf.
But we all know what the rewards for their work was.

It seems if you investigate say for example 'graves in chile' you end up on the front pages of the New York Times. If you investigate any Holohoax sites, you have your life destroyed, and face the threat of Jail.

It all makes perfect sense, expressed in Dollars and Cents. Pounds, Shillings and Pence.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 6 guests