Atheists and the "Holocaust" cult

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oberststuhlherr
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Postby oberststuhlherr » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Apr 30, 2008 1:16 am)

Hektor wrote:Then of course there is the question whether these are actually real photos at all. Funny that Nizkor doesn't address the issue of fake pictures anywhere on their site.


McVay is a denier. The Nizkor site is a satire of scholarship.

Hektor wrote:As for atheism and the Holocaust, there seems to be a connection. It goes like debates "Can there be a god, after the Holocaust?" - "Where was god in Auschwitz?"


This is a form of Argumentum Holocaustum. Steve Weinberg appeals to this line of reasoning(sic). The question the arises: since The Holocaust(TM) didn't happen, does that prove the existence of God?
"From October 1928 the two largest regular contributors to the Nazi Party were ... of Jewish faith, and one of them the leader of Zionism in Germany." Brüning, 1937

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Postby rahulkghosh » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu May 01, 2008 4:13 pm)

ASMarques wrote:I've been posting to two threads of comments on Richard Dawkins's site ( http://richarddawkins.net/ ) and I must confess I still manage to be astonished at people's endless capacity to stop thinking and resort to the authority argument whenever the "Holocaust" is mentioned.

Apparently all their arguments fall in two categories: either it's because a court of law told them the historical truth was so-and-so, or else it's because everyone on the other side is "discredited," you know how it goes, Bradley Smith is a bad guy because he was a former media director of the IHR, the IHR is a discredited institute because a court in California declared the Holocaust an indisputable legal fact in the Mermelstein vs. the IHR case, and so on ad nauseam.

I posted several long informative messages and tried to get a factual discussion on concrete historical points going, but the degree of brainlessness of these folks requires other methods I have little patience for. If you are in the "court saying so-and-so doesn't discredit such-and-such because of this and that" mode of dispute, you may like to take a sweep at those guys and bore them back to death.

I started here, with comment 77 (#157227) now going on 414 (#162908):
http://richarddawkins.net/article,2443, ... stions,BBC

And here with comment 88 (#161825), now going on 118 (#162931):
http://richarddawkins.net/article,2472, ... Dawkinsnet

Phew...


I've done it before on other atheist areas. Believe me, the stupidity of people just infuriates me. Oh well.
Holocaust skeptic and proud of it.

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Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue May 06, 2008 2:45 pm)

This is from an article on a link posted by Hannover on anoter thread:

... In christianity the god has hell up his sleave as the big stick even if the individual fails to worship and behave as required. In Shinto abandoning the ancestors means the ancestors will abandon the living to whatever dire fate the world has in store such as an atom bomb or two.

Similarly we look at judaism. Its old tradition is that the sins of the father were visited upon the sons by their god. Without an afterlife that was the only punishment available to their god. And it appeared to work modestly well and still appears to succeed in their holocaust.

In their holocaust they have a rather straightforward reward and punishment system for the requirement to remember. Failure to remember means there will be another holocaust. The punishment for failing to perform ritual remembering is inhaling cyanide. Reward is a touch more nebulous being rather preventing another holocaust in the midst of an everdangerous world.

They have the "have to remember" their ancestors requirement imposed out of no where which is the safest place for a requirement to originate. They have a defined penalty that is clearly miraculous in nature were it to reoccur as it would come out of nowhere. They give public profession to their remembrance and attack unbelievers in a manner that makes evangelists giving testimony to their faith in Jesus pale in comparison.

They have to remember their ancestors as a ritual to ward off the penalty of a recurrance of the event, premature elevation to ancestorhood. But not just death, also torments prior to death that would make any early christian worthy of sainthood. Given the fundamentalist nature of the United States one can see the suffering of the saints has rubbed off on them making the US the "intellectual" center of the holocaustic religion.

So there is ritual remembering and testimony to remembering to ward off demons in its most primitive sense. And Nazis are the demons lurking just out of sight ready to pounce. And occasionally there is one possessed by demons, a neo-nazi, even though they are the rarest of the rare in this world and rarely over twenty five years of age.

As with such superstitious religions there is a lack of causal connection between the ritual and the penalty. At least in a god religion, it can get pissed at failure to be worshipped and do something to those who fail to worship. In the rational world, Nazis rising again is about as rational as another Napolean or Julius Ceasar.

And also note that nothing can convince them of the impossibility just as no one can convince a believer in black magic and witchcraft that it does not exist. While ridiculing the idea of Nazi supermen all kinds of superhuman accomplishments are ascribed to them.

If you look at their discussions you find yourself reminded of the monastic debates of the Dark Ages. You can find debates on Hitler as to exactly which kind of pure evil he was. The kind of mind that can make distinctions between types of pure evil is the kind that needs a pet or a hobby or a life.


Article here:

http://www.codoh.com/bt/religion/index.html

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue May 27, 2008 8:32 pm)

oberststuhlherr wrote:You will notice that Richard dawkins's forum gets special mention in my exposé:
Ideological Bigotry on the Internet


Well, Oberststuhlherr, seems like I too finally got censored at Dawkins & Co. Still, I managed to send their way no less than 162 messages, many of them quite long and informative.

Here is the lot of them (the numbering is in reverse order: 1 = most recent):
http://richarddawkins.net/userComments,page1,38300

And a couple of farewell ones, on the last thread I posted to:
http://richarddawkins.net/article,2604, ... rd-Dawkins

The mean intellectual level (and I mean "mean" in both senses) of the "anti-denial" local folks is so dismal it actually suprised me.
Last edited by ASMarques on Tue May 27, 2008 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue May 27, 2008 8:47 pm)

Greg Gerdes wrote:This is from an article on a link posted by Hannover on anoter thread:

(Quote follows)

Article here:

http://www.codoh.com/bt/religion/index.html


I remember reading it. Very good, yes. :D

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed May 28, 2008 2:37 am)

Similarly we look at judaism. Its old tradition is that the sins of the father were visited upon the sons by their god. Without an afterlife that was the only punishment available to their god. And it appeared to work modestly well and still appears to succeed in their holocaust.


That's actually a brilliant observation, it goes a long way in explaining why Jews today are still making Germans who had nothing to do with the alleged Holocost pay, it's a case of guilt transference & forcing their belief system on non Jews, it also makes it obvious that as long as the Germanic race exists they will continue to pay.
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.

Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Re: Atheists and the "Holocaust" cult

Postby allgood » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:14 am)

I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed ASMarques posts at the Dawkins Forum. It's a long time since I read through them, but when I did I thought you did an outstanding job of courteously standing your ground in the face of blatantly irrational bullying.

I think it is important to take advantage of opportunities like Richard Dawkins' Forum to show how the much maligned so-called Holocaust deniers - at their best - are far more reasonable and rational than their detractors. Few neutral participants have the guts to speak out against Zionist bullying - but I'd be surprised if you didn't expose it for what it is to at least a handful of fair-minded readers.

Not that I'm an atheist myself, BTW. But that's another debate for another place...

Well done :D

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Re: Atheists and the "Holocaust" cult

Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 3 months ago (Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:10 am)

allgood wrote:I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed ASMarques posts at the Dawkins Forum. It's a long time since I read through them, but when I did I thought you did an outstanding job of courteously standing your ground in the face of blatantly irrational bullying.


Thanks.

Concerning the reason why so many people react in such outlandish fashion to any denial of the corpus of "Holocaust" doctrine, let me tell you that I recently went back, one year after I left, simply in order to post a correction to a minor, but incorrect, bibliographical reference that no one had even pointed out (concerning the "Gas Chambers", not the "Crematories" book by Pressac, where he mentions David Olére's alleged human sausages made in the crematories).

Well, here is the quintessential reaction of a puzzled poster to my short errata message:

"Such care for detail and accuracy is very interesting indeed. I mean, you can be deluded to the point of insanity, deny an entire chapter of history that, directly or indirectly, has deeply affected hundreds of millions of individuals, yet care for inconsequential minutiae."

And there you have the reason why, in a nutshell: when one follows a religious creed, one is concerned about keeping one's "feel-good" faith, not in examining the detail or keeping the accuracy that might put it in peril by bringing forth the conflicting truth.

However, the strain that this places on your desire to reject the direct, if unexpressed, experience of what you know deep-down to constitute the only true, and truly mysterious, faith (what you might call "the rational process and the way you use it") is too much to cope with. Hence the anger, the insults, and the frequent appeals to persecution. It's really a defensive stand the believers take, and the only way you can help them is by unleashing their anger, in a calm but provocative way.

Though I'm not really a great fan of shrinks, perhaps we have a few things to learn from their couch tricks. Bring the hate out and you may yet in the long run save another intoxicated soul, while having some discrete fun yourself (alas, I'm afraid no one will pay you for your efforts)... angry9: :sad3:

allgood wrote:I think it is important to take advantage of opportunities like Richard Dawkins' Forum to show how the much maligned so-called Holocaust deniers - at their best - are far more reasonable and rational than their detractors. Few neutral participants have the guts to speak out against Zionist bullying - but I'd be surprised if you didn't expose it for what it is to at least a handful of fair-minded readers.


Exactly so. You should never let the vocal holo-clowns make you forget the silent people that may be following a given exchange. In fact, the abuse-throwing idiots are very useful to the whole proceedings. The ideal situation is when offensive remarks are directed at you and never replied to in kind, while you're getting a public tribune to clearly expound your logical arguments; the stream of insults constitutes the formal aspect that makes it patent to the silent observer that the blind hateful fanaticism, unable to debate the truth, is on the "Holocaust"-peddling side, not yours.

allgood wrote:Not that I'm an atheist myself, BTW. But that's another debate for another place...


In a strict philosophical sense, neither am I. I will actively deny gods with earthly biographies, that may be more properly bundled together with pink unicorns or flying spaghetti monsters, but I don't exactly think that those guys can be tied in with rational -- and rationally inquisitive, i.e. anti-religious -- concepts, philosophical and speculative in nature, such as the extension of some sort of "subjectivity / consciousness" (very much non-humanlike in form) to an unitarian whole. I simply don't know about that, but I don't think it is an absurd debate, nor the larger concept behind it a necessarily unknowable abstraction, given the very fragmentary and obscure comprehension we have of our own human individual subjectivity. :scratch:

But you're right about that being another debate for another place. We should restrict ourselves here to the foibles of "sacred histories," and that's not a small program to begin with... ;)

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Re: Atheists and the "Holocaust" cult

Postby allgood » 1 decade 3 months ago (Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:47 am)

Beautifully put from beginning to end, ASMarques.

I agree with you about "gods with earthly biographies". Very dangerous characters, most of them.
Aphrodite sounds OK, but I'd hate to run into Zeus on a bad day, or Ares on just about any day.

As for that mean spirited, vindicative, arational, jealous, Judeophilic God, who features so prominently in the Protcols of the Elders of Yarweh... well, in any respectable pantheon, he'd be safely under lock and key.

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Re: Atheists and the "Holocaust" cult

Postby gbrecht » 1 decade 3 months ago (Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:29 am)

I've tried to introduce the topic of holocaust revisionism on other forums before, received pretty much the same response you got. Although i didn't keep it going as long as you managed to(deleted, deleted, deleted...). Well done ASMarques. :thumbright:

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Re: Atheists and the "Holocaust" cult

Postby allgood » 1 decade 3 months ago (Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:08 am)

gbrecht wrote:I've tried to introduce the topic of holocaust revisionism on other forums before, received pretty much the same response you got. Although i didn't keep it going as long as you managed to(deleted, deleted, deleted...). Well done ASMarques. :thumbright:


Yes, I think AS Marques does deserve an award for Real Rationality - like the Real Ale awards for great British beers. :D

I have done the same. There are always gatekeepers. They have a stock range of tricks. Their goal is clearly - always - to stifle real discussion.

The fact they put so much energy into defending these marginal territories of the public domain suggests to me they may well be areas worth contesting.

Incidentally, am I alone in detecting a major shift underway in the balance of comments posted to newspapers articles - at least in the USA and Britain - when these hot button topics are mentioned in articles? A few years ago, anyone doubting the official stories was very isolated. It seems to me we're now becoming a majority - at least of those people who take the time to comment.

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Re: Atheists and the "Holocaust" cult

Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:38 am)

allgood wrote:Incidentally, am I alone in detecting a major shift underway in the balance of comments posted to newspapers articles - at least in the USA and Britain - when these hot button topics are mentioned in articles? A few years ago, anyone doubting the official stories was very isolated.


I am very much under the same impression. For a while, I thought that what was going on was simply that more of the same old revisionist raiders were using Google Alerts etc . to spread out the debate under pseudonyms, like I've done myself.

No longer. Now I'm firmly convinced that there is quite a lot more relatively informed people among the public in general, unconnected to the past debates of revisionism, sending comments in open hostility to the whole "Holocaust" scam.

It has become quite common to see the comments column of a given article in a mainstream paper's website become quickly inflated with a "Holocaust" debate undertaken on the revisionist side by such people with all kinds of arguments (sometimes not the best ones, but clearly better than the ones used by the "Holocaust" crowd). Then, after reaching a certain intensity, the entire comments column suddenly vanishes.

So, yes, it seems like the cat has been out of the bag for some time, and he won't go back easily...

allgood wrote:It seems to me we're now becoming a majority - at least of those people who take the time to comment.


Well, probably not a majority, but we shouldn't doubt "Holocaust" debunking is having a strong public impact. No doubt about that. I confess it even sort of surprises me...

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Re: Atheists and the "Holocaust" cult

Postby Thesaint » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:32 am)

allgood wrote:
gbrecht wrote:I've tried to introduce the topic of holocaust revisionism on other forums before, received pretty much the same response you got. Although i didn't keep it going as long as you managed to(deleted, deleted, deleted...). Well done ASMarques. :thumbright:


Incidentally, am I alone in detecting a major shift underway in the balance of comments posted to newspapers articles - at least in the USA and Britain - when these hot button topics are mentioned in articles? A few years ago, anyone doubting the official stories was very isolated. It seems to me we're now becoming a majority - at least of those people who take the time to comment.

It`s definitely becoming quite "hot" on many a MSM site`s comment sections nowadays.The "state" censors seem to have finally realised that naked pro-establishment political censorship is doing their cause more harm than good especially in the current apocalyptic economic climate.When the "funkies" start getting the jitters,you know the regime is in deep trouble.
"We didn't call survivors," says Lipstadt, "because first of all we didn't want to subject them to cross-examination by this guy. He (Irving) would have destroyed them."
- Jerusalem Post 6/16/00

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Re: Atheists and the "Holocaust" cult

Postby PatrickSMcNally » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:40 pm)

More pseudo-skepticism of a related type at this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sps2o5GKP1w

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Re: Atheists and the "Holocaust" cult

Postby holographic » 1 decade 2 months ago (Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:32 pm)

ASMarques, I admire your tenacity at the Dawkins Forum. While I certainly have not read all the posts there, "Styrer's" are most revealing to me; aside from yours.
I've censored the forthcoming quotes from Stryer as I find them repugnant. Repugnant and QUITE revealing! I have deleted the f-word from my vocabulary, online or off. In years gone by I was prone to using debased language and I'm disappointed in the fine chaps at Dawkins' forum who just cannot evolve past this.

For f***'s sake, Peace.

Is there a f***ing course we should attend to give us greater 'experience in dealing with Deniers'?

Of course not, you d**k.

Get a f****ng grip, lad.

And why the f**k do you capitalise 'Deniers'?

So where the f**k have you been over the last few hours, you s**t? What f*****g right do you have to attempt to dictate how Gobshite ASMarques should be treated?

Whose f*****g worldview do you support?

T**t.

Styrer

Eros and Thanatos locked in a masturbatory no "holds" barred tag-team grudge match, as in"get a f***ing grip lad", "you D**k!". He uses the f-word seven times in his post.Stryer is evidently a mysoginist, closet homosexual. He uses a reference to female genitalia to express his righteous and sanctioned disdain of "peacebeuponme" for having the gaul to being open to your posts. QUITE revealing! Give him time and Styrer (am I forming a connection between STYrer's name and his potty mouth?) will be frothing at the mouth ala a Hollywood "hitler". I imagine that Styrer is munching GMO popcorn and doing his best to cover the stain on his paints as he watches Inglorious Basterds. His evangelical zeal makes him a parody of himself! WHOSE WORLDVIEW DO YOU SUPPORT!!
You are eizther VITH USZ!!! OR YOU ARE AGAINSZT USZ!!!!! UND FOR THAT>>>>>YOU DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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