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Reinhard
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Postby Reinhard » 1 decade 8 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:48 am)

ASMarques wrote:»He who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past.«

George Orwell, »1984«



The quotation in itself is great from the literary standpoint and indeed very accurate, but in our context it leaves an undertaste suggestive of a struggle for the same kind of power, i.e. as if we wished we -- not the other guys -- were the ones controlling the present in order to control the future through our version of the past etc.



Yes, but I think such a misunderstanding - given the fact that the revisionists are the complete powerless outlaws of today's western societies - could be avoided by making the connection to Orwell's 1984 by mentioning the author of the quotation and where it is taken from and by Halo's great pictures of the Big Brother, the telescreen, Winston in the prison cell, etc.


ASMarques wrote:If in 1984 context, the sort of thing Big Brother would put up should be aimed at. We're not yet there and most people will understand that the ironic depictions of the miserable powerless vermin that still care for the truth are not far from what they are already being daily fed.


In Germany and Austria we unfortunately are yet there, the »Ministry of Truth« has become reality (§ 130 StGB [German penalty code] and the »manifest obviousness of the Ho£o€au$t™«, which makes it impossible to the defendant to prove his innocence) - and in France as well:

→ Prof. Robert Faurisson on the persecution of revisionists in France

I think it would be interesting to read a study - perhaps by Prof. Faurisson (he was professor for literature) - on Eric Arthur Blair aka "George Orwell".

During the war he was, as far as I know, working for British war propaganda efforts, but he refused to continue after the war:

→ Essay by George Orwell in the Tribune, Nov. 9th, 1945

Isn't it possible that he didn't have in mind the Soviet Union or the Third Reich, when writing his most famous book 1984, but the establishing of the Ho£o€au$t™-myth after WW II by his former psychological warfare comrades?:

And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed — if all records told the same tale — then the lie passed into history and became truth. »Who controls the past« ran the Party slogan, »controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.«
George Orwell, 1984

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 8 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:57 am)

Reinhard wrote:
ASMarques wrote:The quotation in itself is great from the literary standpoint and indeed very accurate, but in our context it leaves an undertaste suggestive of a struggle for the same kind of power, i.e. as if we wished we -- not the other guys -- were the ones controlling the present in order to control the future through our version of the past etc.


Yes, but I think such a misunderstanding - given the fact that the revisionists are the complete powerless outlaws of today's western societies - could be avoided by making the connection to Orwell's 1984 by mentioning the author of the quotation and where it is taken from and by Halo's great pictures of the Big Brother, the telescreen, Winston in the prison cell, etc.


Okay, but I would still prefer THE TRUTH MATTERS. It's concise and it says everything there really is to say -- indeed all it's possible to say without redundancy -- to the newcomer that may feel put off by what may look to him like a collection of politically-driven obsessions.

Reinhard wrote:I think it would be interesting to read a study - perhaps by Prof. Faurisson (he was professor for literature) - on Eric Arthur Blair aka "George Orwell".

During the war he was, as far as I know, working for British war propaganda efforts, but he refused to continue after the war:

→ Essay by George Orwell in the Tribune, Nov. 9th, 1945


Orwell was a natural revisionist, i.e. a rational person with a strong penchant for the truth, even when it went against the grain of his ideological options. Already you'll find some of this in journalistic pieces written in 1945. For instance:

From: Future Of A Ruined Germany (April 1945):
http://www.readprint.com/work-1258/George-Orwell


As the advance into Germany continues and more and more of the devastation wrought by the Allied bombing planes is laid bare, there are three comments that almost every observer finds himself making. The first is: 'The people at home have no conception of this.' The second is, 'It's a miracle that they've gone on fighting.' And the third is, 'Just think of the work of building this all up again!'

It is quite true that the scale of the Allied blitzing of Germany is even now not realised in this country, and its share in the breaking-down of German resistance is probably much underrated. It is difficult to give actuality to reports of air warfare and the man in the street can be forgiven if he imagines that what we have done to Germany over the past four years is merely the same kind of thing they did to us in 1940.

From: Revenge is Sour (November 1945), the piece you linked to:
http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/r ... sh/e_revso


I wondered whether the Jew was getting any real kick out of this new-found power that he was exercising. I concluded that he wasn't really enjoying it, and that he was merely — like a man in a brothel, or a boy smoking his first cigar, or a tourist traipsing round a picture gallery — telling himself that he was enjoying it, and behaving as he had planned to behave in the days he was helpless.

It is absurd to blame any German or Austrian Jew for getting his own back on the Nazis. Heaven knows what scores this particular man may have had to wipe out; very likely his whole family had been murdered; and after all, even a wanton kick to a prisoner is a very tiny thing compared with the outrages committed by the Hitler regime. But what this scene, and much else that I saw in Germany, brought home to me was that the whole idea of revenge and punishment is a childish daydream. Properly speaking, there is no such thing as revenge. Revenge is an act which you want to commit when you are powerless and because you are powerless: as soon as the sense of impotence is removed, the desire evaporates also.

From: Notes on Nationalism (May 1945):
http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/nat ... lish/e_nat


There can often be a genuine doubt about the most enormous events. For example, it is impossible to calculate within millions, perhaps even tens of millions, the number of deaths caused by the present war. The calamities that are constantly being reported — battles, massacres, famines, revolutions — tend to inspire in the average person a feeling of unreality. One has no way of verifying the facts, one is not even fully certain that they have happened, and one is always presented with totally different interpretations from different sources. What were the rights and wrongs of the Warsaw rising of August 1944? Is it true about the German gas ovens in Poland? Who was really to blame for the Bengal famine? Probably the truth is discoverable, but the facts will be so dishonestly set forth in almost any newspaper that the ordinary reader can be forgiven either for swallowing lies or failing to form an opinion.


Reinhard wrote:Isn't it possible that he didn't have in mind the Soviet Union or the Third Reich, when writing his most famous book 1984, but the establishing of the Ho£o€au$t™-myth after WW II by his former psychological warfare comrades?:

And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed — if all records told the same tale — then the lie passed into history and became truth. »Who controls the past« ran the Party slogan, »controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.«
George Orwell, 1984


I have little doubt that George Orwell, like Bertrand Russell -- who had been an English pacifist who spoke German and had actually managed to have himself arrested for a few months during the Great War on suspicion of spying for the Kaiser and signaling to enemy submarines!... -- would have been revisionists if they had had access to the same sort of data we have today.

However, I am also convinced that Orwell's main disillusionment was with collectivist politics, not with the Jewish role in the war, or the "Holocaust" itself in any strong conscious way. Remember the names he gave, as late as 1948, to the fictional Party ("Ingsoc") and the image of the Party's public enemy #1 for public consumption ("Emmanuel Goldstein").

But also keep in mind that he wrote 1984 in 1948 and died two years later. Yes, I believe it's clear he would have sided with "Holocaust" revisionism had he lived long enough to have a few more facts within his reach.
__________________

P.S.: Also probably not above assuming the role of a silent denouncer, something that may be considered to take intellectual courage or the exact opposite, depending on the circumstances that only he may have known. Some opinions and speculations on the subject:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n8799443/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16550
http://www.k-1.com/Orwell/site/opinion/ ... ory=recent
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/jun/2 ... humanities
Last edited by ASMarques on Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 8 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:44 am)



And thanks for that clip. I hadn't yet seen it.

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Postby holographic » 1 decade 8 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:25 pm)

[quote="Halo"]Nice comics rofl.
-------------------------
yes, it is "nice". I know that I don't have to go into details about duplicity in action here.

David Dees has already created some powerful imagery regarding 'denial' and 'thoughtcrime'. It's a little late in the game to be arguing aesthetics though.

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Postby Reinhard » 1 decade 8 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:44 pm)

Halo wrote:Another scene where a guy is standing in front of a telescreen would be perfect. I am gonna search youtube for such a scene... And the community is free to help me with that as well


I've done a little search, I don't know whether you can use one of them:

There is a good one which is only shown on the search-site, but isn't loading any more and I couldn't find another copy of this picture. It is the first in the second line of the following site:
http://images.google.de/images?q=telescreen+1984&btnG=Bilder-Suche&hl=de&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Ade%3Aofficial&um=1&sa=2

Perhaps somebody else can find another copy.

The pictures I've found:

Image


Image


Image


Image


Image


Image


Image




@ ASMarques:

Thank you very much for the interesting links on Orwell.


Greetings
And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed, if all records told the same tale, then the lie passed into history and became truth. »Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.«
Orwell 1984

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Postby Halo » 1 decade 8 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:49 pm)

Some great 1984 Quotes:




"And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'" —pg 32


"The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but that it was impossible to avoid joining in." -I.1


"Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they can not become conscious." -I.6

"Sanity is not statistical." -II.9



My G-d, "1984" is such a rich source...
It´s overwhelming.

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Postby Halo » 1 decade 8 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:53 pm)

Okay, I thought a lot bout the design of the forums, but there´s 1 technical aspect I need to know. If it works, and if my skills are sufficient (I am NOT a professional), we can create a breathtaking website.

Check this out:
Image

then we have the forums section:
Image

Now my idea: The curtain is open, and we see the Orwellian world behind it.

But I NEED to know if this works out technically:

I could save pictures preserving transparency in .png (or gif) format:

Image


Then one could drag a simple .jpeg file to the transparent section and make it a link:

Image


If that worked out technically and if I shouldnt fail, we could make one heck of a breathtaking website out of it.
We could show the orwellian world behind the curtain then, with working links. I am excited.

SO @webmaster and the members: would this work technically?

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Postby Halo » 1 decade 8 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:18 pm)

I created a test to try out:

Here is a transparent frame:

Image


Here is a test jpeg:
Image

This is how it should look like:

Image

Id be glad if the webmaster or anyone with a forums would test if that works.

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Postby simon1003 » 1 decade 8 months ago (Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:32 pm)

There are some great quotes from Winston Churchill that could also be incorporated, and the irony of quoting him will not be lost on us and any new visitors I'm sure:

"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. "

"No idea is so outlandish that it should not be considered with a searching but at the same time a steady eye. "

"Nothing can be more abhorrent to democracy than to imprison a person or keep him in prison because he is unpopular. This is really the test of civilization."

"The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is. "

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Postby holographic » 1 decade 8 months ago (Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:09 pm)

Let's stop the lies about Auschwitz!


http://judicial-inc.biz/Auschwitz.htm

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Postby holographic » 1 decade 8 months ago (Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:22 pm)

How about an image of Galileo, Luther, Jefferson, and Zundel.

'Does the sun actually revolve around the earth'
-Galileo

'I question the preeminence of the Roman Church and its dogma'
-Luther


'I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.'
-Jefferson

'I question the validity of holocaust figures'
-Zundel

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 8 months ago (Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:05 pm)

holographic wrote:How about an image of Galileo,


That would be too boastful because it would be seen as a self-serving comparison. If deserved, the comparison should come from the outside.

Luther,


A superstitious monk engaged in an holy war for the purity of superstition is hardly the image one would like for the spirit of free thought. I wonder why don't you suggest Joseph Smith and a couple of angels rather.

Jefferson,


Nice, but the Bill of Rights is the crucial thing here, not the Declaration of Independence etc. And the anti-federalists most responsible for the Bill are perhaps not too recognizable. Perhaps the object itself should be present.

and Zundel.


Very appropriate, of course.

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Postby Halo » 1 decade 8 months ago (Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:35 pm)

I am really tempted to this "open curtain orwellian world idea".


The site in 3 segments:

1) oppresion and Tabu of the holocaust

2) Forums delivering the facts and discussion

3) Orwellian world as a logical consequence


But I REALLY need to know if my technical question works. I cannot really progress as long as I dont know if it works...

If .png files worked, I could make them links aswell, then every aspect of the artworks could become a link... a lock, the judge, the barbed wire (just as examples so you know what I am speaking bout) we were not bound to retangular jpeg images then---> we had almost infinite possibilites then.

I need to know if that transparency thing works or not. I am checking this thread multiple times a day waiting for an answer.

Doesnt anyone know?

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Postby holographic » 1 decade 8 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:08 pm)

ASMarques wrote:
holographic wrote:How about an image of Galileo,


That would be too boastful because it would be seen as a self-serving comparison. If deserved, the comparison should come from the outside.

Luther,


A superstitious monk engaged in an holy war for the purity of superstition is hardly the image one would like for the spirit of free thought. I wonder why don't you suggest Joseph Smith and a couple of angels rather.

Jefferson,


Nice, but the Bill of Rights is the crucial thing here, not the Declaration of Independence etc. And the anti-federalists most responsible for the Bill are perhaps not too recognizable. Perhaps the object itself should be present.

and Zundel.


Very appropriate, of course.


ASMarques, you're an atheist I assume.

at least with Luther there is a connection to Zundel's birth place. Joseph Smith? Perhaps you know some dark secret about the LDS but defying the Roman Church was a tad more dangerous than making fun of Mormons.

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 8 months ago (Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:55 pm)

holographic wrote:ASMarques, you're an atheist I assume.


I'll not go into that because we would be in for a long off-topic discussion, so I'll just state that the question in itself, as you put it, is devoid of meaning: it's not possible to believe or disbelieve in a concept that is left undefined. For more on the true faith of the happy few, as opposed to the false faiths of the lost souls, click here if you're really interested.


holographic wrote:at least with Luther there is a connection to Zundel's birth place.


Not reason enough, unless we want to turn revisionism into some sort of narrow patriotic endeavor. Even then, if we are really interested in upholding the historical facts against the religious allegations of the "Holocaust" followers, we should not be adopting a notorious historical peddler of religious humbuggery as emblematic of our own endeavor.


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