Pope slams Holocaust Denial

[wtfhappenedtohess]

Pope Benedict said on Friday as he left Israel that the Holocaust "must never be denied"

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCr ... USLF522470

I don't think the term "Holocaust Denial" does any favors to revisionist.

People are still confused on what it means. Ie. Do they deny the corpses? Do they deny Hitler's racist regime? It's automatically dismissed as an insane movement and compared to the 'flat-earth society' and other idiotic movements.


I think revisionism needs to utilize more specific terminology that clearly identifies "Gas-Chambers" as the source of dubiety.

Center for Open Debate on the Gas-Chambers. CODOG.

The term 'holocaust' is way too ambiguous and multi-meaning to the majority. Keep it specific and focus on the gas-chambers.

Forget about what it means TO YOU. Think about what it means TO THE MASSES.

Even if you watch Phil Donahue's talk show with Bradley and Cole -> the audience still doesn't have the slightest clue what they are arguing, they perceive it as a racist upsetting attack on Holocaust survivors.

"Holocaust Denial" plays into the media's hands 100%.

Even "Holocaust Revisionism" is too ambiguous. Specification of gas-chambers is required to cut through the smog of confusion.

I don't think it's the lack of evidence that is inhibiting holocaust revisionist's message, it's the confusion and complete lack of understanding.


As it stands, I'd say the majority believe:

Holocaust Denial = denial of hitlers racist regime, denial of persecution of jews, denial of concentration and extermination camps, denial of everything to do with hitler and the jews.

... this follows through with implications of Neo-Nazism, racism etc etc.



Gas-chamber dubiety = question the gas-chambers, scientific, specific, understandable. cuts out 95% of the misunderstandings/confusion

[PRHL]

Please search for the term "sedevacantism".
You will find www.novusordowatch.org and other resources.

The fact that the satanist Ratzinger preaches the holo-religion comes at no surprise.

[Älghuvud]

Please search for the term "sedevacantism".
You will find http://www.novusordowatch.org and other resources.

The fact that the satanist Ratzinger preaches the holo-religion comes at no surprise.

@Moderator: Is there no way to expel this zealot? He is not a revisionist. Instead he is repeatedly making abuse of this forum by spreading his bizarre ecclesiastical views.

[Thesaint]

Please search for the term "sedevacantism".
You will find http://www.novusordowatch.org and other resources.

The fact that the satanist Ratzinger preaches the holo-religion comes at no surprise.

@Moderator: Is there no way to expel this zealot? He is not a revisionist. Instead he is repeatedly making abuse of this forum by spreading his bizarre ecclesiastical views.

"Bizarre views"?
I`m not a Christian,but if I was,I would have no compunction about making the same statement about Ratzinger.He promotes the worship of a false idol in shameless defiance of the holy scriptures.Ergo,he has succumbed to the "Beast".

[ASMarques]

Please search for the term "sedevacantism".
You will find http://www.novusordowatch.org and other resources.

The fact that the satanist Ratzinger preaches the holo-religion comes at no surprise.

@Moderator: Is there no way to expel this zealot? He is not a revisionist. Instead he is repeatedly making abuse of this forum by spreading his bizarre ecclesiastical views.

Come on, Älghuvud, the idea that the old rat is actually a demon from Hell in disguise is a perfectly legitimate one, from both the Christian and the Holocaustical points of view. Let's be tolerant of other people's religious opinions, without -- it goes without saying -- infringing on human, angelic and demonic rights, shall we...

Hey! The Edit facility is on again. Thanks!

[Kiwichap]

wtfhappenedtohess said: "I don't think the term "Holocaust Denial" does any favors to revisionist."

But... there was no holocaust, wtfhappenedtohess. Shouldn't we tell it like it is? If you are suggesting some Jew got shot on the eastern front, or someone found a dead Jew or two in a grave somewhere, and that constitutes a Jewish holocaust, then perhaps you make your point. You are not the first to suggest changing the semantics. But get with the plot wtfhappenedtohess. 'Deniers' is THEIR word. Thats a label they hang on us. We can't change it.

Ya see, the problem with your statement wtfhappenedtohess, is it only takes into account the unlearned, deceptive, extraneous fanciful garbage, that has been thrown at the hoax since it's original official Hollywood Frankenstein inception.

ie: The Germans had an government policy for a systematic extermination of the Jews. Six million Jews were rounded up and sent to extermination camps. Women, children and the sick were gassed immediately upon arrival, others being forced to work for the war effort and then gassed when they were no longer useful. On top of that we have soap and lampshades with a host of other insane psychotic details.'

Folk older than 50yrs know the story wtfhappenedtohess. We learned it in school. We are under no illusions about this Jewish fable. Any younger folk, and I'm not suprised their minds may be full of contradictory, fabulous, fables, like living with wolves or starting a budding romance on either side of the extermination camp fence. The liars seek only to cloud and confuse their appended fable, what other choice do they have? There is no truth to the official version, why be carried along on the flotsam and jetson of an appended version? If you can only see the BIG picture wtfhappenedtohess. There is the official version and EVERYTHING ELSE is BACK PEDALING.

Quite clearly wtfhappenedtohess, there was no holocaust. Whatever the hoax may be to you wtfhappenedtohess, be assured, it is only the official description above, to me. I'm no fool to believe new lies from the same folk, on top of the lies they have already dribbled, that I have already rejected. They need to come clean and get their nasty hurtful (profitable) lie off their chest, make suitable amends, and display proper contrition; before I'll let them connect any synapses in my brain again. They can't be trusted! Ya can't believe a word they say. They will have to prove themselves good fellows first.

The liars behind the hoax have walked the plank time and time again. The absence of scientific, demographic, and common sense details that should be plainly evident if the official description held any water, seals their fate. The hoax is plainly seen as a Jewish fable by anyone applying the least amount of effort to examine it. A goodly percentage of the liars have also proven themselves an embarrassment to their cause. Embarrassing to their tribe as well as to the great unwashed public. Every time a Jew opens his mouth re the hoax now, I immediately brace myself to be embarrassed for him.

Take the soap story. With all the millions who could have be saponified, we should be in the cleansing position of having thousands of bars of jewy soap lying around all over the place. But there are none. Not so much as one bar. Not so much as a slippery smidgen of fatty jewy soap jammed up in a plughole anywhere. Same thing with tattooed lampshades; They don't exist. Same thing with gas chambers, a diabolical Jewish fantasy. Science has laid that fantasy to rest. (evil German Jews have locked up and laid the scientists to rest) No one has ever found an Hitler order or any paperwork to support any extermination at all. I'm not gonna bother going on a dead Jew hunt over all over eastern Europe, following German soldiers, looking for a chosen one at the bottom of a pit somewhere, to bolster their fable. I might bother once the official fable's dirty laundry has been aired, but not until then. Nine thousand New Zealander's were killed in the war. Until the liars can show evidence of a greater number of Jews killed then they should just keep their lucky mouths SHUT!

Yeah, the hoax walked the plank and lotsa liars were getting sucked down with it.

What we see re: soap and lampshades and ever dwindling numbers, is the tricky jewy dance called the Back Pedal Waltz. Thats where you take your partner and everyone else in your dance troupe, and on the same day, go to the local newspapers, take off your shoes, and quietly remove that pesky pebble from your sock that's been giving you no end of pain. Jews were falling all over themselves to distance themselves from the soap and lampshade lie. If the numbers keep dwindling, they will go into negative territory. Just hang around a bit longer wtfhappenedtohess. You will get to see some real fancy jewy footwork in the future as the liars back pedal on gas chambers and the whole shebang. They will have to. The world is not full of dimwitted fools as the liars would like it to be. (not totally.... not yet) The new word will be 'What holocaust?'. The truth WILL emerge. ie. The Germans wanted the Jews OUT. That's all. While Germans slept, Jews squirmed their way into every facet of German Christian culture. They were corrupting German culture as only Jews can do. Germans adopted a self defense policy, that they might have a chance at living a decent life free from corruption. We only need to turn our eyes on the USA & UK today. Deja Vu. Will we never learn? I rest my case.

All I see is a lot of shameless folk caught out lying. Now they are desperately trying to throw all sorts of things at the hoax, perchance some of their more outrageous lies may stick. We see nothing at all re: systematic or gas chambers, except the official necessity to add the sentence, Six million Jews were killed by the NAZI's in gas chambers during WWII. That sentence is added to every mainstream article ever written about the hoax. No effort is ever made to justify it. That really is the best they can do. To keep telling themselves and us there were gas chambers, again and again, against the light of science and revealed revisionist history. Some folk really do believe their own lies. Pitiful huh? We also see a big effort to turn the hoax into an article of chutzpa, or should that be faith, NEVER to be questioned. Throw into the bag, 'TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE', and once again they cut their own throats, I rest my case. There was no holocaust.

We need to have the courage of our convictions wtfhappenedtohess. Denial, negation, call it what you like. I prefer to call it a pack of lies by a pack of wilful liars. I'm not looking for any favours, I'm just looking for, and standing up for, the truth as I see it.

[KostasL]

wtfhappenedtohess said: "I don't think the term "Holocaust Denial" does any favors to revisionist."

But... there was no holocaust, wtfhappenedtohess. Shouldn't we tell it like it is? If you are suggesting some Jew got shot on the eastern front, or someone found a dead Jew or two in a grave somewhere, and that constitutes a Jewish holocaust, then perhaps you make your point. You are not the first to suggest changing the semantics. But get with the plot wtfhappenedtohess. 'Deniers' is THEIR word. Thats a label they hang on us. We can't change it.

Ya see, the problem with your statement wtfhappenedtohess, is it only takes into account the unlearned, deceptive, extraneous fanciful garbage, that has been thrown at the hoax since it's original official Hollywood Frankenstein inception.

ie: The Germans had an government policy for a systematic extermination of the Jews. Six million Jews were rounded up and sent to extermination camps. Women, children and the sick were gassed immediately upon arrival, others being forced to work for the war effort and then gassed when they were no longer useful. On top of that we have soap and lampshades with a host of other insane psychotic details.'

Folk older than 50yrs know the story wtfhappenedtohess. We learned it in school. We are under no illusions about this Jewish fable. Any younger folk, and I'm not suprised their minds may be full of contradictory, fabulous, fables, like living with wolves or starting a budding romance on either side of the extermination camp fence. The liars seek only to cloud and confuse their appended fable, what other choice do they have? There is no truth to the official version, why be carried along on the flotsam and jetson of an appended version? If you can only see the BIG picture wtfhappenedtohess. There is the official version and EVERYTHING ELSE is BACK PEDALING.

Quite clearly wtfhappenedtohess, there was no holocaust. Whatever the hoax may be to you wtfhappenedtohess, be assured, it is only the official description above, to me. I'm no fool to believe new lies from the same folk, on top of the lies they have already dribbled, that I have already rejected. They need to come clean and get their nasty hurtful (profitable) lie off their chest, make suitable amends, and display proper contrition; before I'll let them connect any synapses in my brain again. They can't be trusted! Ya can't believe a word they say. They will have to prove themselves good fellows first.

The liars behind the hoax have walked the plank time and time again. The absence of scientific, demographic, and common sense details that should be plainly evident if the official description held any water, seals their fate. The hoax is plainly seen as a Jewish fable by anyone applying the least amount of effort to examine it. A goodly percentage of the liars have also proven themselves an embarrassment to their cause. Embarrassing to their tribe as well as to the great unwashed public. Every time a Jew opens his mouth re the hoax now, I immediately brace myself to be embarrassed for him.

Take the soap story. With all the millions who could have be saponified, we should be in the cleansing position of having thousands of bars of jewy soap lying around all over the place. But there are none. Not so much as one bar. Not so much as a slippery smidgen of fatty jewy soap jammed up in a plughole anywhere. Same thing with tattooed lampshades; They don't exist. Same thing with gas chambers, a diabolical Jewish fantasy. Science has laid that fantasy to rest. (evil German Jews have locked up and laid the scientists to rest) No one has ever found an Hitler order or any paperwork to support any extermination at all. I'm not gonna bother going on a dead Jew hunt over all over eastern Europe, following German soldiers, looking for a chosen one at the bottom of a pit somewhere, to bolster their fable. I might bother once the official fable's dirty laundry has been aired, but not until then. Nine thousand New Zealander's were killed in the war. Until the liars can show evidence of a greater number of Jews killed then they should just keep their lucky mouths SHUT!

Yeah, the hoax walked the plank and lotsa liars were getting sucked down with it.

What we see re: soap and lampshades and ever dwindling numbers, is the tricky jewy dance called the Back Pedal Waltz. Thats where you take your partner and everyone else in your dance troupe, and on the same day, go to the local newspapers, take off your shoes, and quietly remove that pesky pebble from your sock that's been giving you no end of pain. Jews were falling all over themselves to distance themselves from the soap and lampshade lie. If the numbers keep dwindling, they will go into negative territory. Just hang around a bit longer wtfhappenedtohess. You will get to see some real fancy jewy footwork in the future as the liars back pedal on gas chambers and the whole shebang. They will have to. The world is not full of dimwitted fools as the liars would like it to be. (not totally.... not yet) The new word will be 'What holocaust?'. The truth WILL emerge. ie. The Germans wanted the Jews OUT. That's all. While Germans slept, Jews squirmed their way into every facet of German Christian culture. They were corrupting German culture as only Jews can do. Germans adopted a self defense policy, that they might have a chance at living a decent life free from corruption. We only need to turn our eyes on the USA & UK today. Deja Vu. Will we never learn? I rest my case.

All I see is a lot of shameless folk caught out lying. Now they are desperately trying to throw all sorts of things at the hoax, perchance some of their more outrageous lies may stick. We see nothing at all re: systematic or gas chambers, except the official necessity to add the sentence, Six million Jews were killed by the NAZI's in gas chambers during WWII. That sentence is added to every mainstream article ever written about the hoax. No effort is ever made to justify it. That really is the best they can do. To keep telling themselves and us there were gas chambers, again and again, against the light of science and revealed revisionist history. Some folk really do believe their own lies. Pitiful huh? We also see a big effort to turn the hoax into an article of chutzpa, or should that be faith, NEVER to be questioned. Throw into the bag, 'TRUTH IS NO DEFENCE', and once again they cut their own throats, I rest my case. There was no holocaust.

We need to have the courage of our convictions wtfhappenedtohess. Denial, negation, call it what you like. I prefer to call it a pack of lies by a pack of wilful liars. I'm not looking for any favours, I'm just looking for, and standing up for, the truth as I see it.

Kiwichap it is exactly so.

Yes, it is about the Truth. We tell the Truth and we stand by the Truth.

There was NO Holocaust. Plain, simple and clear.

Holocaustian lies have been exposed and admitted while the same time revisionists were proven true, again and again.
Revisionists offer all the pieces of the big picture if someone cannot or do not want to see it, it is their own fault, problem and shame, not ours.

[KostasL]

Pope Benedict said on Friday as he left Israel that the Holocaust "must never be denied"

This "liberal" and "progressive" even "reformist" Pope, adds a new commandment : "Thou shalt never deny the Holocaust".

He seems to tolerate many other "traditional" sins but he cannot tolerate "denial of the holocaust".

He seems to forsake the old "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour" which is what the holocaustians did and do.
And he is proposing a new commandment : "You shall not tell the Truth, which condradicts the false witness".

I begin to believe he is an anti-Pope.

[Älghuvud]

"Bizarre views"?
I`m not a Christian,but if I was,I would have no compunction about making the same statement about Ratzinger.He promotes the worship of a false idol in shameless defiance of the holy scriptures.Ergo,he has succumbed to the "Beast".

I'm not a church member either. And - like most of us here - I disagree with the pope in what he says about holocaust denial. But does this make him a satanist?

I'm not sure what false idol you are referring to. The holocaust is some kind of superstition, yes. But Benedict is not powerful enough. If he were really a promoter of this secular religion he would never have even considered to lift the excommunication of bishop Williamson.

The sedisvacantist is not a sceptic like you and me. Please correct me if I am wrong, but he was not sentenced for denying or questioning the holocaust but for playing it down by referring to child abortion as the "babycaust".

Don't get me wrong. Everyone has a right to his opinion. But I wonder if Catholicism, all sorts of schism and the like really belongs in this forum.

[Älghuvud]

Come on, Älghuvud, the idea that the old rat is actually a demon from Hell in disguise is a perfectly legitimate one, from both the Christian and the Holocaustical points of view.

Then, what do you think about his predecessor "Mea Culpa"?

[ASMarques]

Then, what do you think about his predecessor "Mea Culpa"?

Demoni tutti quanti...

[wtfhappenedtohess]

This is why Holocaust Revisionism is on par-with the 'flat-earth society'.

Don't you understand? It's not about you.

What's the point of having an opinion when you can't even communicate it properly?

Saying "the Holocaust didn't happen" is completely insane and I think it's stupid.

It's like going up to a person and saying "the sky is purple". "Believe me.. the sky is purple!!. It's not blue !! It's purple!! It's all lies! You've been brainwashed!"

Don't you get it? You look completely insane and you get no where.

Sitting on your high horse is a kin to complete communication failure.

By specifically targeting the gas-chambers you are not only telling the truth but you are:
1) Giving a true meaning to what you are saying
2) Cutting out the confusion.
3) Aligning your meaning of 'gas-chambers' with their meaning of 'gas chambers'.
4) It aligns meaning with the core-factor of the Holocaust

TO GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD:

THE HOLOCAUST TO YOUR AVERAGE PERSON IS:
- the persecution of Jews
- Germany 1933-1945
- Hitler's 'final' solution inclusive of BOTH transport and gassings.
- Racism in europe
- War factors effecting both Jews and non-jews in concentration camps
- Labour camps and munition factories

IF YOU WERE TO SAY the 'HOLOCAUST DIDN'T HAPPEN' --> They think you are saying

- the persecution of Jews
- Germany 1933-1945
- Hitler's 'final' solution inclusive of BOTH transport and gassings.
- Racism in europe
- War factors effecting both Jews and non-jews in concentration camps
- Labour camps and munition factories

DIDN'T HAPPEN

So what if your average persons meaning isn't 100% correct? It doesn't matter. It's trivial.

Don't you get it?

The meaning you are sending is getting distorted in the communication process!

You are failing to communicate.

When you fail to communicate you:
- look like an idiot
- people don't understand you
- you get frustrated
- you are dismissed as insane

You are effectively marginalized

If you want to keep failing and stay marginalized, be my guest.

[ASMarques]

What's the point of knowing the truth when you can't even communicate it?

Oh, but you can, believe me. What do you think the desperate fuss about "denial" is all about? You wouldn't be subject to constant censorship if you weren't managing to communicate the message.

Actually I find it convenient to dispose of a single buzzword to name the whole nonsensical body of pseudo-historical doctrinal teaching. Of course, one should always hold on to the very simple -- and accurate -- concept that the "Holocaust" = extermination + approx. 6 million + serial mass murder in gas chambers (short for outlandish industrial genocide), and never let go of it.

Here is how I like to introduce myself:
http://richarddawkins.net/articleCommen ... ge2#157285

MPhil:

Are you denying that the holocaust took place?


Quite so, MPhil, but the matter is not as simple as you and Dawkins seem to think.

We can always construe complex sets of events into "single historical facts" and maintain an epistemological validity to our discourse if a clear definition of our meaning exists. Historical narrative would be a desert of intractable minutiae if we didn't do just that. Thus, the Second World War may be called a fact, much like the fact that I entered a comment on this forum or any other simple empirical truth. This is because, in spite of the great complexity of the historical events, we establish definitions and understand them: a "war" is a state of belligerence between states, a "world war" is a war of global world significance, and "the Second World War" is the particular world war that took place between 1939 and 1945.

Similarly, if we are to take the "Holocaust" as an historical fact, rather than a vague set of religious-like beliefs, we should define our meaning. For instance, a biblical holocaust is simply a sacrifice consumed by fire, and "ill-will towards the Jews," "persecution of the Jews," "the shooting of one's Jewish grandfather in Russia" or "some mass killings of Jews" are not "the Holocaust," the one historians are talking about when they capitalise the noun. I presume you will agree that it is impossible to debate the supposedly historical "Holocaust" if -- alone among historical facts -- it is allowed to remain an open concept devoid of meaning and form.

The "Holocaust" then is assumed to be a relatively precise set of events involving an attempted extermination of the Jews, resulting in approximately 6 million of them being murdered, mainly in the German supposedly homicidal gas chambers. I believe anyone who has been around for the last half century, living anywhere but in the deepest Amazonian jungle, is familiar with this.

In this sense then, we are perfectly entitled to claim the "Holocaust" is a fiction, since all the above claims are false: no extermination (real or attempted), no 6 million (not even approximately), and no homicidal gas chambers (not even in the supposed "extermination camp" of Auschwitz-Birkenau where by far the largest part of the presumed gassings is supposed to have taken place). To understand this, however, it is not enough to sit comfortably on your "acquired knowledge." You'll need to actively -- and perhaps painfully -- search for yourself, for any factual investigation that throws doubt on the "Holocaust" is censored in your country, as well as throughout most of Europe (try http://www.codoh.com if you can get to it in your country).

Of course, if we choose to define the "Holocaust" in a different manner, say as a proto-religious teaching based on extreme but vague war propaganda, claiming that undefined, formless but terrible, events, many of them miraculous, happened to Jews in such a manner that they are collectively entitled to financial compensation, as well as the Jewish state of Israel exempted from the basic standards of civilised behaviour, then the "Holocaust" may indeed be considered "a fact" -- though hardly an appropriate subject for any historical debate.

[KostasL]

Kiwichap it is exactly so.

Yes, it is about the Truth. We tell the Truth and we stand by the Truth.

There was NO Holocaust. Plain, simple and clear.

Holocaustian lies have been exposed and admitted while the same time revisionists were proven true, again and again.
Revisionists offer all the pieces of the big picture if someone cannot or do not want to see it, it is their own fault, problem and shame, not ours.

This is why Holocaust Revisionism is on par-with the 'flat-earth society'.

Don't you understand? It's not about you.

So what if your enlightened? What are you going to do about it? What's the point of knowing the truth when you can't even communicate it?

Saying "the Holocaust didn't happen" to your average person is completely insane.

It's like going up to a person and saying "the sky is purple". "Believe me.. the sky is purple!!. It's not blue !! It's purple!! It's all lies! You've been brainwashed!"

Don't you get it? You look completely fucking insane and you get no where.

Sitting on your high horse is a kin to complete communication failure.

By specifically targeting the gas-chambers you are not only telling the truth but you are:
1) Giving a true meaning to what you are saying
2) Cutting out the confusion.
3) Aligning your meaning of 'gas-chambers' with their meaning of 'gas chambers'.
4) It aligns meaning with the core-factor of the Holocaust

TO GET IT INTO YOUR HEAD:

THE HOLOCAUST TO YOUR AVERAGE PERSON IS:
- the persecution of Jews
- Germany 1933-1945
- Hitler's 'final' solution inclusive of BOTH transport and gassings.
- Racism in europe
- War factors effecting both Jews and non-jews in concentration camps
- Typhus
- Labour camps and munition factories

IF YOU WERE TO SAY the 'HOLOCAUST DIDN'T HAPPEN' --> They think you are saying

- the persecution of Jews
- Germany 1933-1945
- Hitler's 'final' solution inclusive of BOTH transport and gassings.
- Racism in europe
- War factors effecting both Jews and non-jews in concentration camps
- Typhus
- Labour camps and munition factories

DIDN'T HAPPEN

So what if your average persons meaning isn't 100% correct? It doesn't matter. It's trivial.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... cation.jpg
http://www.lclab.net/images/Communicati ... ch_new.png
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/infor ... igure3.jpg



Don't you get it?!

The MEANING you are sending is GETTING DISTORTED in the COMMUNICATION PROCESS!

You are FAILING AT COMMUNICATING!

WHEN YOU FAIL YOU GET NO WHERE!

When you fail to communicate you:
- look like an idiot
- people don't understand you
- you get frustrated
- you are dismissed as insane

You are effectively marginalized

If you want to keep failing and stay marginalized, be my guest.

Dear "wtfhappenedtohess", you are right at what you posted here.

But still it is fun to know that "the earth is NOT flat" and state clearly that "the earth is NOT flat"!!!

[wtfhappenedtohess]

the holocaust is a somewhat difficult event to discuss without falling into absolute chaos. i've still got alot more research to do.