My email reply from Greg Gerdes

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My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:45 am)

Boy do I like this.


Drew and Pepper, since you’re both inquiring about the same stuff, I’ll send each of you the exact same email.

As for my dropping Belzec and Chelmno from The Final Solution Forensic Challenge, at the time that I did, roberta was boasting that she would be using Kola’s claims for Sobibor and the alleged imminent archeological “investigations” at Sobibor as her basis for laying claim to the reward. In the following examples (from VNN), she’s talking (mostly) about Sobibor (You’ll know when she’s talking about Chelmno):

759 – RM: Evidence meeting the challenge requirements is expected to come along with the results of archaeological work currently being done on site. All I have to do is watch… And just to make it clear once more, I intend to publish proof meeting the requirements in ARCHAEOLOGY or SKEPTIC magazine and submit such proof to NAFCASH as soon as I have it in my hands, independently of what my chances are of ever actually seeing any reward money… 798 - RM: I for my part am waiting for current archaeological work on site to make Gerdes’ nightmares come true - 799 – RM: …I’ll try to obtain information about the provenance of this exhibit and include in the article I intend to publish in ARCHAEOLOGY or SKEPTIC magazine after gaining access to the results of current archaeological excavations. – 807 - RM: Kola seems to have made enough of his results available to the authors of the above-quoted description for them to know what he found and to plan further archaeological work at Sobibor taking advantage of Kola’s findings. Work seems to be under way to identify the outlines of the Sobibor mass graves precisely enough for implementation of the following project - 818 – RM: As to the quoted NAFCASH gibberish [concerning the changes], I like it indeed... it has also further improved my chances to gain access to the detailed findings of a certain entity that Gerdes had the imprudence to mouth off about. Their disposition to give me what will make Gerdes’ nightmares come true – 819 – RM: Your true motivation for removing Belzec and Chelmno from the challenge is obvious, Mr. Gerdes. For some reason you got cold feet regarding these two camps. But you again made a mistake, my friend. Considering what is currently happening in matters of archaeological research, you would have been better off by removing Sobibor. Sure you don’t want to reconsider? I promise I won’t hold it against you. [Smiley face] – 826 – GG: BTW Roberta, In what months issue of "SKEPTIC" magazine are we going to see your submittal? RM: But please keep showing how nervous you are about what’s happening on site, Mr. Gerdes. – 827 – RM: And please tell us, what was it that made you get cold feet regarding ARCHAEOLOGY magazine? Did Mrs. Golden accept the NAFCASH challenge and announce that she would submit evidence about the exact location and exact contents of a Chelmno mass grave as well the amount of human remains contained therein? Or did you just decide that it was better not to take chances that she or someone else might do that? – 835 – GG: If jew-lie Golden wants to accept THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE the way it was previously, which included Chelmno and Archaeology Magazine, I, and all twenty supporters will make any and all special accommodations for such an announcement. We will bend over backwards to make sure it happens. We will set up a new challenge independent of THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE, just for her. Just like we modified the FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE just to make it easier for you retardo. In fact, nafcash challenges jew-lie golden and ARCHAEOLOGY magazine to accept a Chelmno / Archaeology Magazine challenge. Perhaps you and your fellow funny boy freaks over at HC… can help nafcash make it happen. – 844 – RM: If you want to set up a separate Chelmno challenge, that’s also fine with me… Speaking for myself… I accept - 847 – Gerdes: The Chelmno / Archaeology magazine challenge is for jew-lie Golden and Archaeology magazine. If the faggots at HC want to join them, that's even better. But it needs to be a joint announcement. You yourself have agreed to be on that team… So get your team together Roberta. When you have jew-lie Golden and Archaeology magazine and all your fellow funnyboys at HC online, make a public challenge to nafcash. We're waiting Retardo. – 854 – RM: So there’s going to be another "major change"? GG: What do the words "new challenge - independent of" mean to you stupid? – 888 – RM: Gerdes’ mouthing-off against the above-mentioned entities may turn out to be a shot in the foot, however. I can imagine members of the Sobibor Archaeology Project or the "Friends of Sobibor Remembrance" association getting angry enough, upon reading Gerdes' crap, to decide that it's time to teach the bigmouth a lesson and publish evidence meeting the NAFCASH challenge requirements just in order to humiliate the fellow, independently of whether or not they can realistically expect payment of the reward amount. GG: When can I expect this to happen Roberta? An approximate date, if not a specific one will be fine. RM: Don't be silly, Gerdes. I can't tell you a specific or even approximate date... But one thing is sure: there's no need for anyone to hurry... - 902 – RM: Insofar as answering your questions… they will be answered in an article that I shall try to get published in SKEPTIC magazine… as soon as I have all the information together and authorization to make it public – 916 – GG: When can I expect this to happen Roberta? RM: When the archaeological work is done and the results have been evaluated… Archaeological evidence is published for the purpose of enhancing scientific and historical knowledge and for everyone’s benefit. When the results of the current archaeological investigations are published in a scientific magazine, they will include much more than just the evidence necessary to meet the NAFCASH challenge requirements. And I will see to it that Mr. Gerdes gets a free copy of the scientific magazine in which this evidence shall be published… As long as it takes for my archaeological work to be completed and duly remunerated, for the results to be evaluated and for an article that meets the requirements of a scientific magazine to be written. – 953 – RM: I didn’t exactly tell him that the results of my research would be available the day after tomorrow – on the contrary, I made it very clear that my research depended on the progress of archaeological work currently being done by the Sobibor Archaeology Project on site, that archaeological work takes time… – 1035 – RM: And as concerns the contents of the Sobibor mass graves, an archaeologist's public statement in conjunction with the known documentary and eyewitness evidence to large-scale mass murder at Sobibor is proof enough. If you want further details you’ll have to wait for the results of ongoing archaeological research by the SAP. Archaeologists work according to their own schedules regardless of how often a hysterical retard yells "let’s see", you know. – 1036 – RM: What I’m waiting for, you ask? I’m waiting for time and means to go to Sobibor, obtain permission to disturb the ash heap (which I doubt will be granted) and enlist the services of an expert to analyze the human remains and certify that they are in fact human remains (which I also doubt anyone will do for just little me). So waiting for what comes of an assessment of the mass graves’ contents by the SAP and/or for a detailed report by Prof. Kola seems a more promising approach. – 1092 - That’s correct insofar as Kola has not yet published a detailed report… the SAP's work is still under way... All that future archaeological reports will do is provide further information about that mass murder. Get used to the idea, Mr. Gerdes… mass murder at Sobibor has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. And as time goes by, archaeology will provide further information about it.

And yada yada yada. Up to, during and after the time those changes were made in The Final Solution Forensic Challenge, most of what roberta was yammering on about was Sobibor, and how she was going to use the information from the upcoming “investigation” to lay claim to the reward and “make my nightmares come true,” etc. And that was the major reason for making the changes, so she couldn’t back out from her boasts and to put a spotlight on the fraudulent “investigation” by Yoram Hymie and the SAP. In fact, had I not put so much time and effort into Treblinka, I would have made Sobibor the one and only camp in The Final Solution Forensic Challenge in order to really force the issue. As I said in this post on the codoh forum:

“FYI... I really hated to drop Belzec and Chelmno, but I felt the time was right to focus and force the issue about Sobibor. Of course, this means that someone else can pick up the Belzec and Chelmno balls that I dropped and do something with them. Especially Chelmno, which is not only a gift, but if the fraudulent "archeological investigation" there isn't used to our advantage, then the next generation of truthers are going to hold us in contempt. In fact, I believe the BS "archeological investigations" of Chelmno are the easiest of all to prove as fraudulent and can most easily be used to our advantage.”

Also note that everything roberta said about chelmno was pure conjecture. Not a peep about any real evidence that jew-lie golden or roberta herself “had on me.” And notice that all her conjectural statements were in the form of questions: “What was it...? Did she...? Was it that...? Did Mrs. Golden...? Or did you...?” etc. She was simply spewing verbal diarhea. (Has anything else ever come out of that pathological liars mouth?) Also notice that jew-lie Golden had much time to lay claim to the reward while Chelmno was a part of The Final Solution Forensic Challenge, as did roberta herself. And every single email that I sent to Archaeology Magazine staffers was totally ignored. Not one single reply to one single question regarding jew-lie golden and her fraudulent article. Jew-lie golden and Archaeology Magazine have been running from me and the subject of Chelmno over the years almost as shamelessly as shermer and “skeptic” magazine and the HC freaks.

And let’s not forget the questions about Chelmno that roberta and her HC butt-buddies ran away from on rodoh. Check out the - Nick does Chelmno - thread. So who got cold feet? If roberta “had something” on me about Chelmno, then why did she run away from those simple Chelmno (and Sobibor) questions – on her own turf?

And how is roberta coming along on The Final Solution Forensic Challenge with all that acheological evidence uncovered by the SAP? She was awfully sure of herself there, wasn’t she? So what happened? It’s been well over a year now since roberta accepted The Final Solution Forensic Challenge. Did she get cold feet? Check out these statements by roberta herself:

"Boy, one can sense how carpet-biting mad Gerdes is at my having accepted the challenge... You will hear from me again on this subject when you find an issue of SKEPTIC or ARCHEOLOGY magazine with an article about my research findings in your mailbox... I’m doing my research independently of how big a chance there is that meeting the challenge requirements will get me any money. If I don’t get paid for submitting proof that objectively meets the challenge requirements, that’s fine. If I do get paid, that’s even better... but the next time you repeat that "looking for an angle out" - BS you’ll be telling another lie, asshole. I have already made clear that the reward money would be nice to have but is not the main motivation for my research... What made me decide to accept your challenge was a big mistake you made in one of your posts, one that considerably improved my chances of having access to the very evidence that is required to meet the challenge requirements... If you don’t want to accept my suggestions... that’s just fine with me. It won’t dissuade me from trying to obtain, publish and present to NAFCASH the required proof, for as you well know the money issue is secondary to me... As you well know, I’m not trying to change anything to my "liking"... what I’m showing the world is that I’m willing to play by the standards of the NAFCASH challenge... And just to make it clear once more, I intend to publish proof meeting the requirements in ARCHAEOLOGY or SKEPTIC magazine and submit such proof to NAFCASH as soon as I have it in my hands, independently of what my chances are of ever actually seeing any reward money. If I meet the challenge requirements but cannot obtain payment... that’s fine. If I can obtain payment, that’s even better.”

So who got cold feet? Where are the articles that roberta promised she would submit to “skeptic” and Archaeology magazines? What exactly has roberta “shown the world,” other than the fact that she’s a mentally ill, emotionally disturbed freak? Wouldn’t you agree that it was roberta who was the one that got cold feet?

OK, that’s enough for the time being. I’ll get to the subject of Belzec next.



Is "roberta" the biggest coward on the planet or what?

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Re: My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:06 pm)

And let’s not forget the questions about Chelmno that roberta and her HC butt-buddies ran away from on rodoh. Check out the - Nick does Chelmno - thread. So who got cold feet? If roberta “had something” on me about Chelmno, then why did she run away from those simple Chelmno (and Sobibor) questions – on her own turf?



Has anyone else tried to find the - Nick does Chelmno - post on rodoh that Mr. Gerdes mentions?

I looked around and did some googling and didn't find any such thread.

Was it so damming that rodoh deleted it?

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Re: My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:55 pm)

Well, I searched some more and found this. Not saying for sure that this is the thread that Gerdes was talking about, but what I found is very interesting nonetheless.

The thread is titled: Chelmno excavations - started by sergeyromanov.

The thread certainly shows Muhlenkamp dodging questions about Chelmno. Lots of them. And Muhlenkamp appears to think that the person he's dealing with is Gerdes.

So why would Muhlenkamp refuse to answer such simple, straight forward questions after making those accusations mentioned above?

Is that not the epitome of cowardice and hypocrisy?

The most interesting thing to me about this thread is the "proof" that Muhlenkamp presented for Chelmno's grave #4:

Here is the so-called "proof" that you presented for the alleged murder of tens and tens of thousands of jews:

The fourth grave - It is represented by a 140-metre-long wall. Located between the third and the fifth graves; its presumed location does not correspond with the actual location. The fundamental fourth grave is located between the wall of the fourth non-existent grave and covers the whole fifth grave. Its actual width equals 10 m, while its length is 182 m. It is filled with gray sandy soil mixed with inclusions of burn waste, ash and crushed bones.



What?

The grave is "represented" by a wall?

Its "presumed" location does not correspond with its actual location?

But in its actual location there lies a non-existent grave?

So what represents the actual location, a presumed wall or an actual wall?

Is the non-existent fourth grave a presumed grave or an actual grave?

Just just how many presumed and non-existent graves are there at Chelmno?

Is there an actual grave #4?

Can Muhlenkamp prove that it exists and contains human remains?

Apparently not, or he wouldn't have been dodging all those questions.

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Re: My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:53 am)

I think I figured out what happened to that rodoh thread - nick does chelmno.

It appears that the hoaxers have tried to bury the thread by merging it with a thread titled - Chelmno excavations, which is nothing but a post of - Remembering Chelmno, Heart-wrenching finds from a Nazi death camp, by - can you guess?

And can you guess the source of the article?

Source: Archaeology, Jan/Feb2003, Vol. 56 Issue 1, p50, 5p

Looks like nick terry is as much a low-life coward as Muhlenkamp.

Anyway, here are the questions about Chelmno that terry and Muhlenkamp are running away from.


1 - The remains of how many jews are claimed to currently exist in "grave" #4?

2 - How many total core samples were taken in "grave" #4?

3 - How many core samples that were taken from "grave" #4 contained human remains?

4 - Can you provide a photo of the contents from just one of these phantom "core samples" from "grave" #4 that shows so much as one single ounce of human remains?

YES or NO?

5 - How many "probing surveys" were allegedly made in "grave" #4?

6 - What were the dimensions of the alleged "probing surveys" that were allegedly dug in "grave" #4?

7 - In what form are the alleged remains of the phantom jews which are alleged to have been located in "grave" #4?

8 - Can you provide a photo of the contents allegedly uncovered by one of these alleged "probing surveys" allegedly dug in "grave" #4 that shows so much as one single ounce of human remains?

YES or NO?

9 - Can you prove that "grave" #4 currently contains the remains of at least 100 jews?

YES or NO?

What was the total quantity of the human remains allegedly located in "grave" #4 by the "real / full" archeological investigation that you claim was carried out:

10 - In weight?

11 - In volume?

12 - How many teeth were found in "grave" #4 by this alleged "real / full" archeological investigation?

13 - Can you provide a photo of the alleged "archaeological investigation" actually in progress of "grave" #4?

YES or NO?


Wouldn't this grave be one of, if not THE largest mass grave located from the holocaust?

If this graves existence was "proven" by an archaeological investigation, then why is muhlenkamp running away from the above simple questions? Why is golden running away from gerdes? Why won't archaeology magazine accept gerdes's challenge?


So muhlenkamp is running from 101 Sobibor questions, 30 Treblinka questions and 13 Chelmno questions.

Who's got who on the Reinhardt camps drew?

And when are you going to post those 30 Treblinka questions drew?

Do you want me to start the thread for you?

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Re: My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:08 pm)

I find this question the most interesting of them all for its pure simplicity:


Can you prove that "grave" #4 currently contains the remains of at least 100 jews?

YES or NO?



So we have the largest mass grave yet from the holocaust that has not only been located, but "proven" by an archaeological "investigation," yet the hoaxers, when challenged, can't prove that said grave contains the remains of so much as 100 jews.

This begs the question:

Can muhlenkamp prove that the "grave" contains the remains of one single jew?

No wonder muhlenkamp is running from all those simple questions.

What a coward.

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Re: My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:15 pm)

And this is the most telling of all the questions:

13 - Can you provide a photo of the alleged "archaeological investigation" actually in progress of "grave" #4?



So we have yet another case where the holocaust was "proven," but they oh-so-conveniently forgot to take any photos to document what they say they proved?

You gotta be f****** kiding me.

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Re: My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:56 pm)

So I read that article by golden referenced in my previous post. And here is a choice quote:

"It's one thing to hear about the crematory, it's another to stand inside an enormous pit that is filled with human bones," says Krzysztof Gorczyca, an archaeologist who directed last summer's excavation. "Only then did it occur to me just how many people were murdered here."


Would anyone happen to have a photo documenting "archaeologist" Krzysztof Gorczyca "standing inside the enormous pit that is filled with human bones?"

So evidently, there were no religious objections in excavating this particular pit then, was there?

Why won't Krzysztof Gorczyca go to Sobibor and excavate "the enormous pits that are filled with human bones?"

Why can't Krzysztof Gorczyca find any of "the enormous pits that are filled with human bones" at Treblinka?

Can Muhlenkamp show us the exact location of this "enormous pit that is filled with human bones" at Chelmno?

And get this:

Human remains found during the excavations are interred in a Jewish cemetery established in the forest. The burial ceremonies are attended by Jews from around the world


So that means that not only have remains been located, they have been moved.

And if they have been physically moved from one location to another, then they would know exactly how much human remains have been located to date.

So why then didn't golden use that information to lay claim to the nafcash challenge?

Why did she run away rather than accept the challenge?

The only logical explanation is that the amount of human remains found was less than 1/10 of 1% of the alleged mass murder.

If they in fact found any at all.

I'd like to see Muhlenkamp prove that the remains of so much as one single jew has ever been located at Chelmno.

Now we know why Archaeology Magazine refused to answer any of Mr. Gerdes's questions.

Unbelievable.

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Re: My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:47 am)

I think I figured out what happened to that rodoh thread - nick does chelmno. It appears that the hoaxers have tried to bury the thread by merging it...



So I went over to the rodoh site again just to make sure I wasn't missing something before I emailed Mr. Gerdes again to find out what was up with that thread.

And look what I found from a poster named shyster:


As part of the recent commissariat reconstruction of Rodoh, the TFSFC supporter sub forum was removed and its threads split across the forum. that was step one. Step two has been to merge certain threads, most notably the 'Nick does chelmno' thread into other threads so that they gradually lose significance.

The question remains - will specific posts eventually end up being deleted? or can this effect just be achieved anyway by breaking up and merging threads?



So this nick terry has been caught red-handed practicing shameless back-door censorship.

First he claimed that TFSFC was a gerdes sock-puppet and banned him, then he systematically tried to undo the damage that TFSFCS did with his damming questions that nick and robert were trying so desperately to ignore.

Those hoaxers are a sneaky bunch, aren't they?

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Re: My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Drew J » 9 years 10 months ago (Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:32 pm)

so THAT explains why as I said earlier on this board, that I can't find older topics that talk about the holocaust in poland anymore and why I get a 404 when I hit old url's. They got moved so that the common public can't see them. Think I'm kidding, check this screenshot and then let me tell you something.

Image

I remember this section about Poland. Now it no longer exists. Get mine and Pepper's point?

Everyone knows about my John Demjanjuk thread. Well that comes from a thread I have done at Ryan Dawson's site. I got into a debate with a guy there named Thunk. He tried to promote the holocaust legend and talked about a Bischoff letter. So I did some googling and found an rodoh page with shyster on there talking about what the German in the relevant documents REALLY SAID and thus exposing all the linguistic tricks extermination theorists use to try and read their own prejudices into documents. Well I clicked on the old rodoh link I gave at Dawson's site and LOW AND BEHOLD I GOT A 404 ERROR. Thank god I copied and pasted long extract from SHYSTER no less :lol: about the Bischoff letter onto Dawson's board. Because thanks to the tactics of the intellectual cowards at rodoh, I would never have seen them again and be able to have used them in any other arguments with anyone else.

Here is my Demjanjuk thread on Dawson's site.
http://www.rys2sense.com/anti-neocons/v ... 11&t=18633

Later I will copy and paste the relevant exchange between me and Thunk regarding what I am talking about.

Pepper, I think you should do what I did with my thread THINGS HAVE CHANGED FOR ME and add a new subtitle in brackets to the effect of RODOH CENSORSHIP-SUPPRESSION SCANDAL.
Last edited by Drew J on Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Drew J » 9 years 10 months ago (Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:51 pm)

Drew J
Show me the gas chambers. That's all you have to do. People can't prove Krema I was a gas chamber.


ThunkI wonder if this will do it for you:

Nizkor wrote:And Just wrote of the gas vans to Rauff, on June 5, 1942, in a letter marked both "top secret" and "only copy". This is a horrific masterpiece of Nazi double-talk, referring to killing as "processing" and the victims as "subjects" and "the load." (See Kogon, Nazi Mass Murder, 1993, pp. 228-235.)

Since December 1941, for example, 97,000 were processed using three vans, without any faults occurring in the vehicles. ...

The normal capacity of the vans is nine to ten per square meter. The capacity of the larger special Saurer vans is not so great. The problem is not one of overloading but of off-road maneuverability on all terrains, which is severely diminished in this van. It would appear that a reduction in the cargo area is necessary. This can be achieved by shortening the compartment by about one meter. The problem cannot be solved by merely reducing the number of subject treated, as has been done so far. For in this case a longer running time is required, as the empty space also needs to be filled with CO [the poison exhaust gas]. ...

Greater protection is needed for the lighting system. The grille should cover the lamps high enough up to make it impossible to break the bulbs. It seems that these lamps are hardly ever turned on, so the users have suggested that they could be done away with. Experience shows, however, that when the back door is closed and it gets dark inside, the load pushes hard against the door. The reason for this is that when it becomes dark inside, the load rushes toward what little light remains. This hampers the locking of the door. It has also been noticed that the noise provoked by the locking of the door is linked to the fear aroused by the darkness.

Slip-ups occurred in written correspondence regarding the gas chambers themselves, some of which, fortunately, escaped destruction and were found after the war. A memo written to SS man Karl Bischoff on November 27, 1942 describes the gas chamber in Krema II not with the usual mundane name of "Leichenkeller," but rather as the "Sonderkeller" "special cellar."

And two months later, on January 29, 1943, Bischoff wrote a memo to Kammler, referring to that same chamber as the "Vergasungskeller." (See Gutman, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp, 1994, pp. 223, 227.) "Vergasungskeller" means exactly what it sounds like: "gassing cellar," an underground gas chamber.


Once again on its own this explanation might sound weak but put into context of all the other demographic data as well as the speeches, clothes, testimonies, and other documents converge on the same point.


Drew J
Oh really? It's just that clear? I don't think so.
h ttp://r odohforum.yuku.co m /topic/6867/t/The-quot-Vergasungskeller-quot-letter.html?page=2

This is a forum discussion showing how extermination theorist Van Pelt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jan_van_Pelt
gets things mixed up.

Hello Hans, Bischoff writes that KII is almost finished, "bis auf bauliche Kleinigkeiten fertiggestellt" and then adds the part about L2, i.e., that the forms can not be taken off. Thus, he clearly states that the Krema is not finished. You then write, and I quote:

"Then you deny Bischoff was refering to the Leichenkeller with his remark "hierfür", which is however quite obvious and in fact the only reasonable interpretation."

Why is that "the only reasonable interpretation"? You refer me to Pressac (?), who wrote:

"d) The only remaining Leichenkeller, designated by Bischoff as the Vergassungskeller, is therefore Leichenkeller 1. His letter means above all that it is to not be used for the moment as a "gassing cellar", but as a "corpse cellar", i.e. a "morgue"."

Oh boy again. Where is a Leichenkeller mentioned in the letter? Nowhere. Bischoff writes Vergasungskeller and that it will have to be used "hierfür". That's all. Van Pelt performs some mental acrobatics, following Pressac onto the mental trapeze, when he writes: "…"linguistic slips" like Bischoff's use of the noun "Vergasungskeller"[...]" How on earth did he know that this was a slip? All this is, is a baseless assumption.

This letter was written during the expansion of the camp, when inmates arrived before the camp was completed, sanitary installation lacking behind, missing completely. In spite of stop gap measures, the result was a typhoid epidemic, two in fact, with camp closures the result. Signor Mattogno makes an effort to put this letter into context, I don't have the time right now to translate pages upon pages of what he wrote. Therefore, just a few snippets.

On January 9.1943, Bischoff wrote Kammler, telling him that the delousing facilities have been completed, he lists five, and now people, including civilian workers, can be deloused (RGVA, 502-1-332, S.46-46a, from "Die Leichenkeller…", S.373). But in the following days, three of those facilities were rendered inoperable due to fire (RGVA, 502-1-28, S.256-258, "Die Leichenkeller…", S.373). New equipment was ordered, Mattogno provides details, improvisations resorted to. This went on 'till Kammler finally put his foot down and his program: "Sondermaßnahmen für die Verbesserung der hygienischen Einrichtungen" was implemented in summer 1943 (Ibid, S.374). It is therefore more than reasonable to assume, and yes this is also an assumption since the letter is not clear, that Bischoff referred to delousing of clothing/inmates, planned for L2 and stated that this would have to be done, till L2 is ready, in an existing "Vergasungskeller".

It is also nonsensical to suggest that high ranking officials, educated people, referred to the unmentionables as "Vergasungskeller" at one time, the next time as "Gaskammer" or "Sonderkeller" and everyone knew what was meant. No reprimands for babbling about "Geheime Reichssache" and the documents were kept. Too much for me to swallow.

Mattogno makes another good point, van Pelt agrees when he writes, and I'll get to his conclusion:

By the time the crematoria were finished, Auschwitz had virtually no permanently dedicated morgue capacity."
http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/defense/van/vi

Astonishing, a "extermination camp" with no morgues! Mattogno agrees with van Pelt, but tells us about the repeated requests by Dr. Wirths to have morgues installed close to the camp hospitals. In one of those requests, that of May 25.1944, he writes that every hospital of 500 beds has a morgue, yet the hospital of Auschwitz II, containing 3 - 4 000 beds, has no morgue and the bodies have to be taken, mornings and evenings, to the morgues of the Kremas(RGVA, 502-1-170, S.264, from "Die Leichenkeller…", S.367).

Astonishing, 3 to 4 000 beds in an extermination camp. Wirths is told to take the bodies from his hospitals to the Krema morgues, and that during the so-called "Hungarian Action". No additional morgues were ever build, the existing, Krema morgues utilized instead. If mass murder would have taken place in the morgues of the Kremas, as is alleged, additional ones would have been build, none were. One of the documents mentions that the bodies were transported to the morgues, using trucks (RGVA, 502-1-170, S.260, from "Die Leichenkeller…", S. 367). This is no doubt were Vrba has his story about the trucks from.

Here then van Pelt's conclusion re. the absence of morgues.

"This is very important: putting it very crudely, a design for a camp with a low incineration capacity and low morgue capacity indicates the expectation of low mortality; a design for a camp with low incineration capacity and high morgue capacity indicates the expectation of high mortality, most likely due to contingent circumstances (epidemics); a design for a camp with high incineration capacity with low morgue capacity indicates the expectation of high mortality, most likely due to humanly controlled circumstances (murder)."

Oh boy. Facts are established up front and proven by the interpretations. No case for mass murder can be made using documents, that much is clear, the Frankfurt "Judges" had to admit this, it all rests on "eyewitness" testimony. BTW, this was reaffirmed at the "Gaskammer Konferenz" of May 2008, when it was stated that the "Gaskammern" are fictitious. And Hans, you are trying to prove 200 scientists from numerous countries, wrong? Shame on you.

We have no idea what room/building Bischoff refers to when he writes "Vergasungskeller", nor do we know what "hierfür" means, unless we engage in mental gymnastics, or establish that as fact, up front, that needs to be proven.

Just a little about the slide. Mattogno writes that the slide had not been eliminated (Die Leichenkeller…", S.365). The following his source:

"4 Die Rutsche der Krematorien II und III, 6,8 m lang, wurde von der Fa. Huta - Hoch- und Tiefbau AG mit Sitz in Kattowitz erbaut für 37,40 RM.
Bericht der Fa. Huta mit dem Betreff »Ausgeführte Bauarbeiten d. Krematoriums 2« vom 7.5.1943 (APMO, BW 30/26, S. 36) und Rechnung Nr. 2 ebenfalls vom 7.5.1943 mit Betreff »Ausgeführte Bauarbeiten des
Krematoriums 3 lt. Angebot vom 13.7.42« (RGVA, 502-1-306, S. 31).
Die Rutsche des Krematoriums II ist außerdem gut sichtbar in dem Plan Nr. 2197[a](r) E 2197 (r) als Anhang zur Dokumentation der Übergabeverhandlung des Krematoriums (J.-C. Pressac, Auschwitz:
Technique…, aaO. (Anm. 1), S. 311f.) und wird auch ausdrücklich erwähnt in der entsprechenden »Gebäudebeschreibung« (RGVA, 502-2-54, S. 78)."

Too much for me to translate but this states that a Rutsche, slide, was build by Huta, costing 37.40 RM. This slide can also be seen on plan NR. 2197 (a)9r) E 2197 (r) as attachment, Pressac, "Auschwitz Techniques…", footnote 1, S.311 f, and is explicitly mentioned in the description of the building (RGVA, 502-2-54, S. 78).

I had no time so far to check this.

This will have to do for now, Hans. As is evident, you are unable to make a solid case as to where the "Vergasungskeller" was located, consequently your explanation of "hierfür" also falls flat. All you are doing is making baseless assumptions, just not good enough.

Armes Deutschland.

Hello Hans, allow me to summarize and this time without frills.

Here is the Bischoff letter again, and that is all I wanted to discuss:
"Das Krematorium II wurde unter Einsatz aller verfügbaren Kräfte trotz unsagbarer Schwierigkeiten und Frostwetter bei Tag- und Nachtbetrieb bis auf bauliche Kleinigkeiten fertiggestellt.
Die Öfen wurden im Beisein des Herrn Oberingenieur Prüfer der ausführenden Firma, Firma Topf u. Söhne, Erfurt, angefeuert und funtionieren [sic]tadellos.
Die Eisenbetondecke des Leichenkellers konnte infolge Frosteinwirkung noch nicht ausgeschalt werden. Dies ist jedoch unbedeutend, da der Vergasungskeller hierfür benützt werden kann"


Part one states that "Krematorium II" has been mostly completed, in spite of inclement weather. Important to note that Bischoff does not write BW # so and so (I would have to look up the number), but "Krematorium II". And with this goes your yarn about promotion. At that time, they were desperate for cremation facilities, because of typhoid epidemics, resulting in camp closures (quarantines) in July 1942 and February 1943. This is why the completion of the Krema was of utmost importance.

The second part tells us that the ovens are being dried out and that they work perfectly. Again, considering the circumstances, the typhoid epidemics and the fact that new inmates arrived, this was what the rush was all about.

Now to the third part. Bischoff writes that the formwork of the slap of the morgue can not be removed, because of frost. But, he adds, this is not important because the Vergasungskeller can be used for it.

No degree of urgency, it was "not important". Why not? To say that "hierfür" refers to corps storage is just plain silly, why would Bischoff have to tell Kammler that a morgue can be used for storing corpses? Think man, and don't follow the faulty "reasoning" of Messrs. Pressac and van Pelt. Why would Bischoff state the obvious? Also, the proper storing of corpses would be of concern, far from "not important". Krema I could not handle the load, too many fatalities daily because of typhoid, and the corpses needed to be dealt with. Burying them in the death of winter would not have been easy, thus, the Krema as well as the morgue were vital.

To tell you the truth, I don't know what to make of the last sentence, it doesn't fit, the wording is also troublesome. Bischoff is talking of the completion of the Krema, the morgue and then he leaps, without any apparent connection, to "hierfür" and the Vergasungskeller. As mentioned, to suggest that he was telling Kammler that a morgue can be used for storing corpses is just idiotic. Therefore, the "Vergasungskeller" must be a different facility and the letter gives us no clue what is meant by "hierfür", "for this".

So, unless you can come up with a plausible explanation, I see no need to continue this. But be aware that with this another piece of "evidence", needed by True Believers to substantiate the Holy-Holo tale, impossible to do, lies can not be 'substantiated', goes down the Vistula.

Armes Deutschland.


Hans, you are referring to a "Sonderaktion", which in your mind had something to do with mass murder of Jews. Mattogno wrote a whole book about the "Sonderaktionen" (plural) "Sonderbehandlung in Auschwitz. Entstehung und Bedeutung eines Begriffs". He presents documents that prove that the term had nothing to do with mass murder, but everything with the expansion of the camp, the installation of sanitary facilities. You totally ignore the typhoid epidemics and the actions taken by the camp administration to stop them, but this is the vital part. Himmler ordered the expansion, the camp to house 200 000 inmates, the "Sonderzüge" started to arrive before the sanitary facilities were completed. Also, why start using "Tarnsprache", call it "Sonder-" something in the middle of 1942 when Höß stated that he had been ordered by Himmler to turn Auschwitz into a murder factory in summer of 1941?

Hans:
"The purpose of the Vergasungskeller letter was to give Kammler a positive feedback as to the completion of the building and in fact claiming functional completion. This situation was the result of Bischoff's announcement of 18 December 1942, where he submitted the following delayed completion dates to Kammler:[…]"

Kammler was no idiot and aware of all the difficulties.

Hans:
"As Pressac notes, Bischoff was finally promoted to Sturmbannführer after Kammler received the Vergasungskeller letter,[…]"

Pressac is pulling this out of his hat, and even if true, all it proves that Bischoff was awarded for efficiency, for completing camp facilities needed for housing- and sanitary needs of inmates. The rest is an assumption.

Hans:
"In the following sentence, Bischoff explains that "this" (the non removal of the formwork) is "not relevant" as the "Vergasungskeller" can be used "for its purpose" (the Leichenkeller). So Bischoff is actually very clear: The Vergasungskeller is supposed to assume functions of the Leichenkeller[...]"

L2 was to be partitioned off into a change room, dissection room, etc. So, you are suggesting that L1, which you are certain is the Vergasungskeller, will be used as a change room, etc.? And if corpses were to be stored in L1, why would Bischoff call it "Vergasungskeller"? Why not L1? What happened to Tarnsprache, "Geheime Reichssache"? Fact is, the letter gives no clue as to what is meant by "for this purpose" when reading it without Holo-Goggles. And that is why this sentence makes no sense. The sentence before that is about the fact that the formwork can not be removed because of freezing temperatures. Bischoff then continues by writing that this is not relevant, the removal of formwork, because the "Vergasungskeller" can be used "for that purpose".

You are jumping through all kinds of hoops trying to convince me that corps storage was referred to and that the Vergasungskeller was in fact L1. However, the letter does not say this. And as mentioned, why would Bischoff tell Kammler the obvious, that corpses can be stored in a morgue?

Hans, you also ignored the fact that according to the official yarn Auschwitz/Birkenau had no morgues, something admitted to by van Pelt. Birkenau had a 3 to 4 000 bed hospital, but no morgue and no additional ones were ever build. We have to remember that L1 was originally designed as a morgue, and we are told that it was later converted into a "Gaskammer", the Germans having forgotten to provide for them from the beginning, in II & III that is, in IV & V they remembered.

The typhoid epidemics were a fact, they are well documented. The daily death totals are also recorded. At the time of those epidemics, only Krema I was operational, and morgues were desperately needed. The rush was therefore to build additional crematoria, as well as morgues, to handle the corpses that were accumulating. You claim that Bischoff was rewarded because he finally finished a "Gaskammer", a year and a half, or one year, after the decision was made to turn Auschwitz into a murder factory. Do you really believe this? If you do, I feel sorry for you for this is total bunk. But, try and fit this letter into the camp expansion/typhoid outbreaks scenario and it makes sense, except for the sentence under discussion. Still, the letter does not tell us what "for this" means or where this "Vergasungskeller" was located.

Hans:
As far as the corpse chute is concerned, it is of minor interest if it was actually build.[…]"

The chute was not only build but also installed, according to Mattogno:

"Die Rutsche des Krematoriums II ist außerdem gut sichtbar in dem Plan Nr. 2197[a](r) E 2197 [b] (r) als Anhang zur Dokumentation der Übergabeverhandlung des Krematoriums (J.-C. Pressac, Auschwitz: Technique…, aaO. (Anm. 1), S. 311f.) und wird auch ausdrücklich erwähnt in der entsprechenden »Gebäudebeschreibung« (RGVA, 502-2-54, S. 78)."
(This slide can also be seen on plan NR. 2197 (a)9r) E 2197 [b] (r) as attachment, Pressac, "Auschwitz Techniques…", footnote 1, S.311 f, and is explicitly mentioned in the description of the building (RGVA, 502-2-54, S. 78).

Hans, you are not providing anything new, but keep repeating this nonsense:

"In the following sentence, Bischoff explains that "this" (the non removal of the formwork) is "not relevant" as the "Vergasungskeller" can be used "for its purpose" (the Leichenkeller). So Bischoff is actually very clear: The Vergasungskeller is supposed to assume functions of the Leichenkeller[...]"

Do I detect a little dishonesty here, Hans, hmmm? You wrote, to try and make the Leichenkeller fit, "for its purpose", when in fact it says "hierfür", "for this", and there is absolutely no hint, the letter provides no clue, what "this" was supposed to be. But what you are saying is, Bischoff wrote Kammler to tell him that a morgue can be substituted for a morgue, but instead of calling L1 a morgue, he uses Tarnsprache and calls it "Vergasungskeller". You'll have to do better than that, Hans.

Another piece of "evidence" down the Vistula.

Arme True Believers, armes Deutschland.



Again that r o d o h link is this.

h ttp://r odohforum.yuku.co m /topic/6867/t/The-quot-Vergasungskeller-quot-letter.html?page=2

Put it back together and take out the ?page=2 and you get a 404. Someone doesn't want the general public to see this on rodoh. Covert censorship.

Pepper
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Posts: 186
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Re: My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:50 am)

Here is my latest email response from Mr. Gerdes:

Hello again Pepper, how are you?

Oh yes, I’ve caught some of her act. Hilarious, isn’t it? Just when you think that that insane freak couldn’t get any weirder, she spirals downward another notch. The pressure is really getting to her. I see someone on the rodohoax site finally said something to her - but it’s much too late. I heard Harrison is close to a breakdown as well and is weirding people out almost as bad as roberta is. That whole HC freak show is imploding. But then again, what else COULD happen when you stick a bunch of insane monkeys into a barrel?

I just love knowing the fact that roberta is still having nightmares over what I did to her on topix & VNN. I know I scarred her for life – and it really shows. And you’re bitch-slapping that crazy dyke and the rodohoaxers exceptionally well yourself Pepper. Great job. (It looks like Harrison has developed an obsession over you! Lol! Hopefully, you can drive him over the edge just like I did roberta.)

But listen; don’t waste any more of your time over roberta on the subject of Belzec. It will all be a moot point soon enough. Just concentrate on some of the other things that you’re working on. It takes some time getting in touch with everyone I need to for the OK on my proposal, but it’ll happen soon enough and then I’ll step up and bitch-slap the freak myself. (The back of my hand is tingling with anticipation!)

Thanks for the email Pepper and keep fighting the good fight. And keep having fun with it as well. As you well know, there is nothing more enjoyable than bitch-slapping holohoaxers with the truth and rubbing their noses in their lies and then sitting back and watching them freak out. Pretty soon, the hoaxers are going to be having nightmares about you as well. (If they’re not already!)

Later.



Greg Gerdes

President

The National Association of Forensic Historians

http://www.nafcash.com/

The vilest form of self-abasement is the subordination of your responsibility to reason to the minds of others.

A true measure of a man's charater is his willingnes to speak the turth - even at the expense of his reputaion.

A hallmark of self-deceiving cowards is their acceptance of authority as their truth, rather than the truth as their authority.



Looks like Mulenkamp just might get what he's wishing for.

But what's that old saying?

Be careful about what you wish for, you just might get it?

The back of my hand is tingling with anticipation!


Now that's funny.

Mojo
Member
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Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:46 pm

Re: My email reply from Greg Gerdes

Postby Mojo » 9 years 10 months ago (Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:13 am)

@ DrewJ... Have you ever tried using the Wayback Machine at www.archive.org to check for these missing web pages? Type the domain in and you can look back years/months, maybe they've been indexed there.


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