The SANITY Test!

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Friedrich Paul Berg
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The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 5 months ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:24 pm)

The test: Do you agree with me that railroad delousing gas chambers could have been e-a-s-i-l-y used to commit mass murder by the Nazis?

Many prominent "revisionists" such as Butz, Faurisson and Toben have flunked the test.

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In an e-mail recently, Robert Faurisson wrote the following:

... I cannot reiterate here what I have said and written and shown with pictures so many times perhaps in English and certainly in French. As soon as you have read the 47 operations of the “Procedure Check List” (15 July 1958, revised 22 October 1975) of the Baltimore Penitentiary gas chamber (same model as in the 30s and 40s) and seen that impressive gas chamber as I saw it myself, you understand that to execute one man with HCN is a horribly difficult problem. Nothing to compare with a delousing or disinfection or disinfestation gas chamber for clothing or for the fumigation of a room, a building, a ship, etc., by a team of “exterminators” (American word).

Therefore an execution of thousands of human beings in any room would have ended up in a catastrophe. For days and days it would have been a terrible problem to get those poisoned bodies out of the room. There certainly would never have been a second execution!


It would be interesting to know the "Procedure Check list" for an official hanging. It might convince people that mass hangings are also impossible, or implausible, or technically improbable. The following is from: http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/methods.htm

Image - - - - H A N G I N G
Procedure: Prior to any execution, the gallows area trap door and release mechanisms are inspected for proper operation. The rope, which is of manila hemp of at least 3/4"and not more than 1 1/4"in diameter and approximately 30 feet in length, is soaked and then stretched while drying to eliminate any spring, stiffness, or tendency to coil. The hangman's knot, which is tied pursuant to military regulations, is treated with wax, soap, or clear oil, to ensure that the rope slides smoothly through the knot. The end of the rope which does not contain the noose is tied to a grommet in the ceiling and then is tied off to a metal T-shaped bracket, which takes the force delivered by the offender's drop.


No doubt, many other steps are needed as well to hang a single person legally in the US. But, can anyone in their right mind seriously maintain that if some of those steps are skipped, or missing--one could not possibly hang someone to death. Or, that one could not possibly commit mass murder by hanging because it is so difficult to hang a single person? Could someone accused of hanging another person be acquitted because his rope was only 6-feet long instead of the recommended 30 feet? Of course, not!

On technical subject matter, Robert Faurisson is hopeless! He is a kind of techno-retard locked into his fixed ideas about "impossibilities." Unfortunately, so are many "revisionist" true-believers who seem to worship at his feet. Denial is their new religion. That may explain why holocaust revisionism is not far more successful than it is. No doubt, if I give the same test to "exterminationists"--the results will be better. No doubt, if I am clever enough and disguise my motives--most "exterminationists" will agree that the railroad delousing tunnels could have easily worked for mass murder. They will agree that those real gas chambers would, at the very least, have been vastly better than the alleged gas chambers for humans at Birkenau which they already believe in. Of course, since the Nazis really had such huge delousing gas chambers (on railroad tracks of all places), why didn't they use them? Why have such chambers never even been implicated? Some people might start to think even further.

For more backgound, please see: http://www.nazigassings.com/Railroad.html

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:22 pm, edited 8 times in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 5 months ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:13 pm)

FPB

The test: Do you agree with me that railroad delousing gas chambers could have been e-a-s-i-l-y used to commit mass murder by the Nazis?



Yes, I agree.


Warheit, will you answer FPB's question, or are you going to cravenly run from it just like you run from all my questions?

Why are you so afraid to answer a few simple questions Warhiet?

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Mojo » 9 years 5 months ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:17 pm)

FPB wrote:The test: Do you agree with me that railroad delousing gas chambers could have been e-a-s-i-l-y used to commit mass murder by the Nazis?


I agree.

From a logistical view it would've made much more sense to gas them on the train. Why bother to waste fuel and other resources during a 2 front war to transport them to a camp, unload, give haircuts, gas, burn & scatter/bury. Doesn't seem very efficient.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Gébé Tremblay » 9 years 5 months ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:03 pm)

M. Friedrich Paul Berg, you are making a mistake about M. Faurisson.

You are saying :

I expected an uproar of criticism from the holocaust believers—but it never came from them. It came instead from a totally unexpected direction. It came from Robert Faurisson, a leading European holocaust revisionist, ...


M. Faurisson is not a holocaust revisionist. He is only concerned about the technical possibilities of the claimed gas chambers and proof of their existence.

If he tells you that he does not believe, in light of his previous research, that these train delousing stations would work for mass killing of thousands of people, then it is is legitimate opinion.

I understand that if it would have been technically possible then you would have a good dilemma for the exterminationists. But Faurisson is not into proving or disproving the holocaust.

What Faurisson means is that these are not mass human killing gas chambers disguised as delousing chambers. They are designed for delousing.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Gébé Tremblay » 9 years 5 months ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:13 pm)

On the other hand, the exterminationists who claim that the designs of the camps gas chambers were cappable of mass killings should explain your incredible find !

They should explain why these were not used !

Will they then confirm Faurisson's conclusions ?

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Gébé Tremblay » 9 years 5 months ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:38 pm)

As for your question:

Do you agree with me that railroad delousing gas chambers could have been e-a-s-i-l-y used to commit mass murder by the Nazis?


Your point is the best answer : If they could have been, then they would have been used instead of carrying all those people to camps, get them out of the trains, cut their hair, get them naked to delouse their clothing seperately (what for?), and shove them all in a stationary gas chamber to gas them, then carry the corps one by one by foot to a mass grave !

So Faurisson is right.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby PLAYWRIGHT » 9 years 5 months ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:21 pm)

While it wouldn't be impossible to cram box cars full of people into a railroad delousing tunnel, it would pose a number of problems for the executioners.

1. To recover the clothing and valuables, each corpse would have to be individually unloaded and stripped.

2. Any valuable luggage, especially foodstuffs, would have been contaminated.

3. There is no guarantee that the train could have been delivered from the gas tunnel to the cremation or burial location in a timely manner. Sometimes, trains were held up for weeks. The possibility of a trainload of decomposing corpses sitting at a siding is extremely likely.

4. If you're considering Birkenau as the likely location for the delivery of the corpses, it's an appreciably long haul from the train siding to the Krema's. Imagine carting even 500 bodies from a train to Krema's II or III, right next to the sidings, it would be a big, dirty job, impossible to hide. And if you consider before March of 1944, it's over 3 miles from the ramp that then existed at Osweicem station to the Birkenau Krema's, a long way to haul them.

5. The cars would have been fouled by the dead bodies, even before decomposition, and would have required extensive cleanup. So would the clothing they were wearing.

6. If you consider a reasonable 100 people per car, and 90 lbs per person, that is 9,000 lbs (4.5 tons) of biomatter per car with HCN dissolved in body tissues. Decontamination would have required that the cars be vented in an open space for some hours.

7. Concealment of the fate of the victims, if considered necessary, would be impossible, both at the decontamination tunnel and when delivered for disposal.

8. How would you have selected those fit for work from those who were not fit, except hold a selection then reload the train? That would involve at the very least downtime on the train, and the SS did have to pay for those trains. And the selection would have had to take place in a railroad yard proximate to the delousing tunnel, unless you want to ship them from Birkenau, to the tunnel, then back again. AND, if you hold the selection at the tunnel, you'll need two trains. One for gassing; the other for shipment of workers.

9. Finally, those railroad delousing tunnels were few, in high demand, and owned by the railroads, not the SS. The red tape involved in scheduling such an execution would have been enormous. The railroads, privately owned throughout the war, would probably have refused, or charged the SS such a high fee as to make it financially impracticable.

There have been disasters involving the mass suffocation of passengers on trains, usually in railroad tunnels. If you read up on those, you'll see some of the problems that cropped up. All in all, the complications that are posed by mass execution in boxcars far outweighs any advantage gained in the perceived convenience of using a delousing tunnel.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 5 months ago (Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:26 am)

There is a vast difference between natural ventilation and forced ventilation which Faurisson and his acolytes refuse to see. Before World War 2, natural ventilation (open doors and windows) after fumigation was the general rule. It took several days to fumigate and vent a barracks building. But the demands for more and more fumigation during the war made it necessary to speed the process enormously. Forced ventilation with warmed air reduced fumigation times from as long as a few days to one hour. The air was generally pre-warmed to temperatures 10 degrees above the boiling point of cyanide (78 degrees Fahrenheit) in order to make condensation of liquid cyanide impossible. That eased the ventilation problem also. The pre-war Budapest railroad delousing tunnel was heated and thoroughly insulated, for example.

Faurisson and his loyal acolytes locked themselves into the problems of natural ventilation. They continue to imagine that the venting of a pile of corpses would have been “a terrible problem” and “would have ended up in a catastrophe.” Objects such as blankets, clothing and mattresses which were routinely fumigated with cyanide had to be thoroughly ventilated because those objects would be in intimate contact within hours with people one wanted to keep alive. Such objects were given additional natural venting time in the open--on clothes racks, for example--to try to remove every last trace of cyanide. But corpses are another matter. There is no need for any kind of intimate contact at all. The corpse handlers could wear gloves, and gas masks, and could wash everything with water and hoses. It would have been a mess--but no insurmountable problem at all! The mess would have been no worse than what people are generally convinced must have been routine at the AR camps.

That 2 out of the 4 people answering the test question "passed" is not too bad. Those who did not pass should read the technical literature (usually in German only, unfortunately) and/or my essays, and carefully.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Gébé Tremblay » 9 years 5 months ago (Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:12 am)

Darn !... I wont get my diploma. :(

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 5 months ago (Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:45 pm)

Tremblay will not get a diploma from me--but perhaps Faurisson will allow him to kiss his ring.

There are many serious errors in the writings and claims of Faurisson and Leuchter. Those errors are highlighted again and again in courts and elsewhere to support the Jewish holocaust claims in general. Repeating those same errors, on and on, only helps the Jews. Those errors are used to show the world that "revisionists" as a class are cookoos--and that their conclusions must, therefore, also be wrong and baseless. Among the errors is the claim, repeated endlessly, that cyanide gas is "explosive" and, therefore, could never have been used near a crematorium oven.

There are cookoos everywhere and so it should be no surprise that some are on the revisionist side as well--or that revisionists make mistakes. The answer to the problem is for revisionists to rethink their work and air corrections as best they can. I have made errors as well--but I have tried to correct them. The internet today allows us to do all that.

Some really serious errors from Faurisson and Leuchter are their claims that killing people, even masses of people, with cyanide gas is rather quick and almost easy. For Faurisson the really big problems only begin a-f-t-e-r everyone is dead. Well, that is simply wrong. Leuchter had not witnessed even one gas execution before his "report" was published. The simple fact, which I support with evidence on my homepage, is that the killing process itself is a slow agonizing mess--especially when the victims refuse to cooperate in their own executions.

The large, operational, railroad delousing tunnels would have been an excellent and efficient way to commit mass murder. So, why did the Nazis NOT use such facilities? I suspect there was a large railroad delousing tunnel in the railroad yard at Auschwitz but I have never been able to find it, or evidence of its existence. Its presence would undermine the holocaust gassing claims since it would suggest a scenario totally different from everything we have been told about mass gassings at Auschwitz-Birkenau. I have heard of at least one in Warsaw as well.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Pappy Yokum » 9 years 5 months ago (Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:15 pm)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:The test: Do you agree with me that railroad delousing gas chambers could have been e-a-s-i-l-y used to commit mass murder by the Nazis?

Many prominent "revisionists" such as Butz, Faurisson and Toben have flunked the test.


It would be interesting to know the "Procedure Check list" for an official hanging. It might convince people that mass hangings are also impossible, or implausible, or technically improbable.



Over the New Year holiday I was at a party. Also attending the party was an anesthesiologist. The topic of state executions came up. The doctor was incredulous as to how difficult a time the government has with killing a man by lethal injection because doing it is laughably simple. The problem is the state adds layers of complexity to the procedure because putting the man to death isn't the only goal it has in applying capital punishment. One of the other goals is anonymity and plausible denial of responsibility for those performing the execution. To this end, a lot of electronics have been added to the procedure to prevent even the executioner from knowing with any certainty whether he had set the process in motion.

I am not sure what the point of this test is or whether a person's sanity is measured one way or the other based on the answer.

Could a train fumigation tunnel be used to commit mass murder? Undoubtedly. The question really is whether mass murder was the only goal. Would meeting any goals beyond mass murder complicate matters? I don't know. Certainly, secrecy was a goal. Unlike with typical capital crime executions, expense would have been a consideration. However, a reason offered for gassing in various Holocaust texts is gassing was supposed to be humane and that is why the U.S. started using it in executing convicted criminals. I suppose that conclusion was drawn because a gassing victim's corpse has no visible signs of violence done to it. Therefore, another goal was the method was intended to be humane. Could these or other reasons have made the train tunnels incompatible with the goals of the mass murder? I don't know. Since the whole genocide story is so absurd and fanciful it doesn't really matter.

There are countless ways to kill people. The question "Why did the Nazis NOT use such facilities?" could be asked about any number of resources available. Why didn't the Nazis chase the Jews off high cliffs like the Indians did bison? Why didn't the Nazis back the trains into a pools of water and drown them? Leuchter asked why not hang the Jews instead? Rope is cheap, reusable, and is easy to handle. Machetes were used to great affect in Rwanda.

Though the argument that better alternatives to the methods of extermination of the Jews were available is appealing, it isn't convincing because being "excellent and efficient" weren't the only considerations; Simply because what could be considered better methods to achieve a goal were available does not necessarily mean those less effective or efficient procedures had not been used instead.

The creators of the gassing lie could not create it out of whole cloth. They had to stitch together a story that had at least some plausibility to it. If the train fumigation facilities had been somewhere that could have been shown to have been a major destination for deported Jews, then the story might have been different. What was done instead is places like Birkenau and Madjanek that were busy processing scrap material and large numbers of prisoners were picked.
The camps had piles of scrap material like old shoes and suitcases. This was portrayed as "loot" taken from the murdered. They had Zyklon B which was the murder weapon. They had fumigation facilities mischaracterized as gas chambers. They had crematoria used to portray the "industrial" nature of the genocide. They had dead bodies waiting for a photo op. They had hundreds of thousands of "eyewitnesses" who were motivated to lie. The railroad delousing gas chambers presented no such opportunity for a good story with circumstantial evidence - along with testimony - to support it. The camps presented the opportunity for fraud that the train fumigation installations didn't. That is why the Nazis didn't use such facilities. Rather, that is why they were not accused of using such facilities.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 9 years 5 months ago (Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:29 am)

Robert Faurisson is saying that it would take more than the usual delousing measures to kill a man, but I've always heard (from believers) that to kill lice takes a lot more zyklon B and that's why the blue staining happened in the delousing chambers but not in the gas chambers.

But Faurisson also says that for days and days it would be hard to get these poisoned bodies out of a room, or tunnel. And I can't imagine that. A blower on one side pushing air in, and a blower on the other side pulling air out. Days and days?

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby jnovitz » 9 years 5 months ago (Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:33 am)

CCS, good points. I dont think gassing tunnels would work either.

Actually I think the electric swimming pool with the metal plate floor that could lift up and simultaneously carbonise the corpses has been unjustly overlooked by historians.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Gébé Tremblay » 9 years 5 months ago (Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:07 am)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:Among the errors is the claim, repeated endlessly, that cyanide gas is "explosive" and, therefore, could never have been used near a crematorium oven.


Where is the error ?

To kill a human you need to expose him to a concentration of 300 parts per million of Zyclon B. Or about 5 grams per cubic meter.

The zyclon B explose at 56,000 parts per million. Or 75 grams per cubic meter.

They say they had 2,000 people in that gas chamber.

How did they keep the concentration at 5 grams per cubic meter after they tossed the Zyclon B from holes in the roof ?

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 5 months ago (Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:59 am)

Cyanide gas does NOT explode at 56,000 parts per million by itself. That level is simply the lower limit of flammability. It still would need someone to ignite it and then all one may get is a self-sustaining flame. Only if the 5.6% cyanide fills all or most of an enclosed space can one get more than a harmless puff.

To kill people, one can use far lower levels of cyanide. Those levels are far below what one needs for a self-sustaining flame in air. In other words, one can be far below what is needed for an explosion and still kill everyone in a short time. One can commit mass murder with cyanide gas without ever having to worry about any kind of explosion.

Every prosecutor in the world in holocaust revisionist cases gets all the info he needs to show that to any court from the Jewish organizations, I am sure.

To a question raised by CCS--for killing lice, the DEGESCH company recommended cyanide concentrations of 20--30 grams per cubic meter with an exposure time of 24 hours where only natural ventilation and convection are applied. According to the hoaxers, the fans in the homicidal gas chambers were turned on ONLY after everyone was dead and not before. For killing rats and mice (warmblooded and similar enough to humans) in buildings, they recommended cyanide concentrations of only 5 grams per cubic meter (natural ventilation and convection) which is consistent with the 5 grams per meter given by Tremblay. But DEGESCH also recommended an exposure time of about 12 hours. See Gesundheits Ingenieur, 1940, Heft 40, page 525. I'll try to provide a scan of the actual table of concentrations in a day or so.

All of those levels are far below the flammability limit of about 5.6% in air. So, it does take generally higher concentrations to kill lice than people--but not by that much, only by a factor of 4. For actual executions of criminals in the US, one pound of potassium cyanide is used to generate enough gas to fill the entire gas chamber of about 4 or 5 cubic meters. To determine the actual concentrations in the same units of grams per meter, I will leave that for someone else to calculate--but those concentrations seem much higher off hand than what DEGESCH was recommending even for lice. Germar, where are you to calculate some cyanide concentrations for us?

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Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:26 am, edited 3 times in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.


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