The SANITY Test!

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Heydrich
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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Heydrich » 9 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:54 pm)

"Pappy, mass plunder was intricately connected to mass murder, as clothing, cash, gold, and personal jewelry were certainly sought by Nazi agencies."

Wahrheit, you are certainly wrong here again. It was strongly forbidden to touch the belongings of the inmates at Auschwitz. They were to be given back to the prisoners once being released. Of course the inmates stole belongings of other inmates.

As you use a German name, you maybe understand the German language. Here is an interview with Thies Christophersen, who worked at Auschwitz during wartime and confirms what I have said above:

Look for "Interview mit Thies Christophersen ueber die Auschwitz-Luege"

http://nsl-archiv.net/Filme/Nach-1945/

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:31 pm)

Heydrich wrote:"Pappy, mass plunder was intricately connected to mass murder, as clothing, cash, gold, and personal jewelry were certainly sought by Nazi agencies."

Wahrheit, you are certainly wrong here again. It was strongly forbidden to touch the belongings of the inmates at Auschwitz. They were to be given back to the prisoners once being released. Of course the inmates stole belongings of other inmates.


I am not talking about concentration camp prisoners but victims of intentional mass murder (shooting, gassing, etc.). Also, the Nazis were fond of confiscating property and belongings left behind by Jewish inmates.

I am not much interested in Christophersen, never was (even as a 'revisionist'), and as the point is not relevant to mine, I see no need to listen to him talk.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Heydrich » 9 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:52 pm)

"I am not much interested in Christophersen, never was"

Yes, I thought you are not interested in learning the views of a contemporary witness, who was doing duty at the time at Auschwitz when according to the jews the most people were gassed. Otherwise you would learn something.

Thies was not a revisionist, he was a witness and spoke out what he saw, cause he could not stand the lies and the injustice. He knew that would bring him nothing but trouble, but he was a man of conscience.

You are only listening to "witnesses", who accuse the Germans with whatever nonsense they can get a hold of. That does not get you anywhere near to the truth though. Sad thing.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:44 pm)

Heydrich wrote:"I am not much interested in Christophersen, never was"

Yes, I thought you are not interested in learning the views of a contemporary witness, who was doing duty at the time at Auschwitz when according to the jews the most people were gassed. Otherwise you would learn something.

Thies was not a revisionist, he was a witness and spoke out what he saw, cause he could not stand the lies and the injustice. He knew that would bring him nothing but trouble, but he was a man of conscience.

You are only listening to "witnesses", who accuse the Germans with whatever nonsense they can get a hold of. That does not get you anywhere near to the truth though. Sad thing.


I have read the various testimonies of Christophersen and I consider him a VERY weak witness. He was hardly present at Birkenau to give many details at all regarding what he witnessed. He also has made statements to the effect that nobody was shot at Auschwitz, and that there was no smoke over Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1944; both documented lies, which even "revisionist" idols (Mattogno, Faurisson) do not dispute. In short, Christophersen didn't know what he was talking about.

If you wish to debate him further, open up a thread on him. As for the "views of a contemporary witness," I prefer to focus on the testimonies from various witnesses (Poles, Jews, Germans, etc) who were actually in a position to know something, instead of someone located outside of the camp. The "sad thing" is that you only rely upon him because he suits your political viewpoint (not the truth).

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:58 pm)

I am tempted to just ignore the thoroughly stupid remarks by Wahrheit about Thies Christophersen--but, I really can't.

I knew Christophersen personally. He was in my house in New Jersey several times and I translated live a speech he gave in Jersey City at the Schuetzenpark in about 1982.

Christophersen was an excellent witness and an extremely fine, honest man who spent nearly all of 1944 at Auschwitz, with occasional visits from his wife. He had many photos of his time there that he showed me and the Canadian court. He personally made "selections" of workers (Poles, gypsies and some Jews) to pick weeds and tend the dandelions in the fields at Raisko where he also supervised a small laboratory and where the actual chemical analysis was done by some Jews. What he said about the absence of smoke was T-R-U-E--and completely confirmed by the aerial recon photos taken by American aircraft over many months in 1944. That does not mean there was never any smoke at all, ever. One aerial photo does show some smoke coming from what was probably a small open-air garbage fire near Krema 5--but that was it. The Kremas themselves never, ever, showed even a whisper of smoke in any of the aerial photos.

I remember the vehemence with which Christophersen said what he said about the absence of smoke. I was actually surprised myself and skeptical at the time. Christophersen also compared the air quality at Auschwitz with what he was experiencing in 1982 in New Jersey about twenty miles from some of the biggest oil refineries in the US. He said the NJ air was absolutely terrible and the air quality at Auschwitz was excellent. I thought the air coming from Monowitz should have been bad but he insisted otherwise. Christophersen was an educated farmer who was extremely sensitive to environmental issues such as air quality. He gave me an excellent lecture, for example, about caring for some of the pine trees I had planted on my property.

In hindsight, the SANITY test which focused on railroad delousing tunnels is a rather good test of Wahrheit's sanity in general. He has already flunked the SANITY test--and will never get it. He is just another pathological Jew agitating here for as long as he can possibly get away with it. When the Nazis put hatemongers like him into concentration camps, they certainly had the right idea.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 6 months ago (Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:12 pm)

In my post #319 earlier on this thread, I promised to provide a scan from a reference giving recommended cyanide levels for various tasks. Here it is from page 525 of "Ueber Schaedlingsbekaempfung mit giftigen Gasen (Pest Control with Poisonous Gases)" by Carl Leopold Schwarz, Gesundheits-Ingenieur, 1940, Heft 40, page 524-526:

Image

The above numbers are for simple gas chambers w-i-t-h-o-u-t the forced Kreislauf or circulation that became standard later for many hundreds of fumigation chambers using Zyklon-B, including many at Auschwitz-Birkenau as well. Four of the later, improved gas chambers, with forced Kreislauf, can still be seen today in the crematorium at Dachau.

Image

The picture above was taken shortly after “liberation” by the Americans and shows the purpose of real German gas chambers--–to delouse clothing and nothing more sinister than that. The four Zyklon-B delousing chambers are directly behind the covered walkway behind the clothing. Everyone can see them today and how they are also s-e-p-a-r-a-t-e-d from the rest of the crematorium building by a breezeway corridor passing through the building. When the clothes have been thoroughly fumigated and vented inside the gas chambers--they can still be vented naturally also (in fresh air) on the patio ledge, just as at the Auschwitz 1 gassing installation with its 19 gas chambers. By the actual design and construction of these superb facilities, we can literally read the minds of the Nazi designers and engineers. We can see what they were thinking. Their thoughts were the complete opposite of what is alleged. They were trying to keep people alive!

Image

The image (above) shows the disinfection end of the Dachau crematorium building. Note the similarities between this gassing installation and the much larger facility with 19 gas chambers at Auschwitz 1. In both cases, after disinfection and forced venting are completed, carts with clothes, etc., are pushed out into the "Clean zone." There the clothes will still get natural venting to remove even traces of cyanide before intimate contact with the owners of the clothing.

For more good info with pictures of the Dachau crematorium and its real gas chambers see:

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachauscr ... ion01.html

One of the most outrageous, but consistent, characteristics of the holocaust hoax is that it portrays life-saving measures which saved countless people, including Jews -- as key features of a systematic mass murder program which never existed. Life-saving has been made into mass murder. What could possibly be more perverse?

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:26 pm, edited 8 times in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Heydrich » 9 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:49 am)

@ Wahrheit

"and that there was no smoke over Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1944" & " that nobody was shot at Auschwitz"

Here you lie again.

In that interview, which you don't want to see, he explains the source of a little smoke (garbage fire and burning of a few corpses, which had to be reburied, due to the danger of poisening the drinking water). He also says under which circumstances somebody was shooted (Schiessbefehl).

Of course it is easy to just condemn him has a Nazi, so you don't have to care about his arguments? Get real, your name "Wahrheit" here is a farce, as the opposite is true.

You have been repeatedly caught lying here, so your agenda is clear. What FPB says about you gets my fully approval.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby GurtKerstein » 9 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:43 pm)

FPB:

The test: Do you agree with me that railroad delousing gas chambers could have been e-a-s-i-l-y used to commit mass murder by the Nazis?


Perhaps it could have but it's besides the point. The existence of a more efficient killing method does not disprove the Holocaust narrative. A bullet costs less than 10 cents. The whole Holocaust could have cost less than $600,000 if indeed 6 million Jews were to be murdered. For some reason, some people, including yourself, believe that transporting people across countries and gassing them is the most efficient way to liquidate people in large numbers. The Soviets killed more people and they didn't use gas chambers. However, that too does not debunk the Holocaust narrative.

What does debunk the Holocaust narrative is the preposterous allegations and testimonies and complete lack of physical evidence. When Germar Rudolf risked everything to publish his investigation results and concluded categorically that no mass gassing could have taken place in Auschwitz, he was debunking the Holocaust. When Butz and Faurisson expose the fallacies in witness testimonies, they are debunking the Holocaust narrative. The train delousing tunnels are an interesting fact but just because they could also be used to kill people is simply besides the point.
The Emperor cannot see the cloth, but pretends that he can for fear of appearing stupid; his ministers do the same. A child in the crowd calls out that the Emperor is wearing nothing. The Emperor holds himself up proudly and continues the procession.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Kiwichap » 9 years 6 months ago (Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:57 am)

Berg begins:
The test: Do you agree with me that railroad delousing gas chambers could have been e-a-s-i-l-y used to commit mass murder by the Nazis?


Immediately we discover. Agreeing with Berg means we disagree with "Butz, Faurisson and Toben" they have flunked the test; they are hopeless,, kinds of ..retards.

That was an unfortunate way to start a thread Berg. You made an anti outta me straight away. You attacked three men I admire most. Fancy adding: Unfortunately, so are many "revisionist" true-believers who seem to worship at his feet. Was that a spiteful way of saying you're, not having much luck on the recruiting side of things?

Listen up Berg; Faurisson bears in his body the scars of this battle. Toben has had his freedom assaulted by these liars. Butz has dodged slings and arrows. Nobody is worshipping at their feet. What you disdainfully call worship; is actually RESPECT. One needs more than a bee in his bonnet to earn it.

Surely you could have asked your question without a not so subtle call to pick sides in you're going nowhere tantrum. If agreeing with you means Faurisson, Butz & Toben are hopeless, flunky, retards. Then right back at ya pal.

Pappy Yokum said; "... this discussion is a train tunnel to nowhere. This sort of hypothetical exploration of alternative ways to kill several million people has been out of date for at least a decade, maybe two.,

This thread is not about advancing the cause in the least Pappy Yokum. It can only have the opposite effect. This thread is about point scoring, pride, and division.

-

"Because of its extreme solubility in water, hydrogen cyanide is most firmly retained by moist commodities.

That means 2000 Jews in that little morgue, all in a panic at the Zyklon thrown down on them, along with the heat of all those packed in bodies, sweating like inverted sponges. would have immediately absorbed all the gas most firmly. It is easier for HCN to enter water than it is to stay a gas. The humidity would have been so high, 2000 Jews in that little chamber, the gas would have immediately joined with the moist air and it would rain HCN on them. That's if the gas could have risen above their ankles to start with. AND thats the easy part.

Getting that mass of toxic waste outta the chamber every 20 minutes, not even mentioning that the door opened inwards, would be a feat in itself. It ain't gonna happen by blowing a hot fan and sucking. The HCN is "most firmly retained." in a pile of 2000 dead Jews.

The Germans didn't have the technology to gass 6M Jews. We see the necessary precaution and after caution taken with just one criminal in the USA. Only a fool gasses himself at a gassing. You would need something similar to a killing chain at an abattoir, completely sealed off. You would need quite a few of them. Jews in one end, ash out the other, and in between a gas chamber and crematorium. All this nonsense talk about trains and what-have-you just makes the job harder, much more difficult. More people involved, more logistics, travel arrangements etc. The locomotives would still be shunting them around now, that is, if Berg knows a sonndercommando who can drive a train.
There was no holocaust.

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 6 months ago (Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:44 pm)

Heydrich wrote:Of course it is easy to just condemn him has a Nazi, so you don't have to care about his arguments? Get real, your name "Wahrheit" here is a farce, as the opposite is true.


Nope, his politics are not taken into account (unlike you take into account religion and nationality). Also, keep in mind that he was effectively dropped by Rudolf and Mattogno, who only cited his involvement and judicial proceedings following his publications, rather than his actual argumentation in said publications. In short, the "revisionist" big wigs have found little use for Christophersen's account.

You have been repeatedly caught lying here, so your agenda is clear. What FPB says about you gets my fully approval.


I have never lied on this forum. Expect to hear more about Christophersen soon enough.

BTW, in contradiction to your Weltanschauung, I'm not Jewish (as if its relevant).

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Heydrich » 9 years 6 months ago (Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:19 pm)

@ Wahrheit

"I have never lied on this forum."

Of course you did, I caught you. See my post above, the proof is right there. I do not discuss with you anymore. Not worth my time.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:09 pm)

GurtKerstein wrote:

For some reason, some people, including yourself, believe that transporting people across countries and gassing them is the most efficient way to liquidate people in large numbers....


Well, my point is that one would NOT have needed to move people across across any countries when one could gas the people locally almost as soon as they had been put into those cattle cars. The Budapest railroad delousing chamber could have handled the entire Hungarian Jewish population without any of them leaving Hungary.

------------

Kiwichap is very upset that I did not massage his ego. He wrote the following:

"Because of its extreme solubility in water, hydrogen cyanide is most firmly retained by moist commodities."

That means 2000 Jews in that little morgue, all in a panic at the Zyklon thrown down on them, along with the heat of all those packed in bodies, sweating like inverted sponges. would have immediately absorbed all the gas most firmly. It is easier for HCN to enter water than it is to stay a gas. The humidity would have been so high, 2000 Jews in that little chamber, the gas would have immediately joined with the moist air and it would rain HCN on them. That's if the gas could have risen above their ankles to start with. AND thats the easy part.


The first sentence is from a credible source and is correct as far as it goes. But then, Kiwichap does the kind of clumsy slight-of-hand that Faurisson, Leuchter and many others do when they really do not understand their subject: they cherry pick something entirely out-of-context and extrapolate far beyond what the reference says, and recreate the entire universe to serve their new, but false, vision of the way the world works. Kiwichap actually wrote: "...all those packed in bodies, sweating like inverted sponges. would have immediately absorbed all the gas most firmly. It is easier for HCN to enter water than it is to stay a gas. ...the gas would have immediately joined with the moist air and it would rain HCN on them."

It doesn't get c-o-o-kier than that. If any of that were true, all the Jews would have had to do was urinate on the floor to i-m-m-e-d-i-a-t-e-l-y absorb "all the gas most firmly." My sanity test worked quite well, obviously.

The mental process that Kiwichap has used here is what creationists do all the time. Make a huge mountain out of a mole hill. Take something out of context, spin the meanings of some key words, totally ignore contrary evidence--and, lo and behold, the entire universe is created by God less than ten thousand years ago. What Kiwichap and Faurisson and Leuchter ignored is that although cyanide is indeed absorbed readily by water (it is highly soluble in water)--it also escapes from water quickly as soon as there is no cyanide gas in contact with the water. Cyanide is rather easily vented--and that has always been a major selling feature for cyanide as a fumigant. It leaves solutions, or objects being fumigated, almost as rapidly as it enters. While the cyanide is in the objects being fumigated, it also kills pests. Only trace amounts of HCN remain chemically bound to moist objects after venting as was explained in Kiwichap's reference but--he totally ignored those parts. Those trace amounts may have a terrible effect on the taste of the objects--but will kill no one.

------------

Wahrheit is totally worthless. If he hasn't already been circumcised--he might just as well go ahead and get the operation. His brain is already there. Bielitz (Bielska-Biela in Poland, today) was where Christophersen seems to have seen smoke but that is about thirty miles to the south of Auschwitz--and far from the camp.

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Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Kiwichap » 9 years 6 months ago (Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:41 am)

FPB said: "... all the Jews would have had to do was urinate on the floor to i-m-m-e-d-i-a-t-e-l-y absorb "all the gas most firmly."

Correct. Like I said; The Germans didn't have the technology to gas millions of Jews. Nobody does. Standing around in peey puddles of HCN will still kill you pretty quick though; but that's not technically a gassing, is it?

Berg reckons "Cyanide is rather easily vented.

Not when its in peey puddles on the floor, with 2000 dead sweat soaked gassed Jews lying on top of it.

Berg says: "it [HCN] also escapes from water quickly"

No it doesn't. It is retained most firmly. Boiling it off would be the only way to get rid of it from a solution with any certainty. Human bodies are 75% water. You would have to bake them. That's why USA criminals and gas chambers are carefully washed with a chemical solution to neutralize any cyanide, then the corpse is sealed up because cyanide can still leech out and kill the onlookers.

Berg's explanation is regarding fumigating dry objects. The recommendation in the fumigators handbook says: Make sure everything is dry. We don't want to be here all month cleaning this lethal toxic waste up. Even so, small amounts of cyanide can linger on dry objects. Proper fumigation techniques require any water, and water containing commodities, such as food, goldfish, dogs, cats and Jews, to be hermetically covered or removed from the scene before fumigating.

There's no getting away from it. Any gassing done in the manner of the fable would be a disaster. It would be safer to just cover the whole mass of dangerous toxic waste, morgue and all, with a mountain of dirt, than risk cleaning that lethal concoction up.

It's plain to see Faurisson, Butz, Toben, and others, can see the error in Bergs attitude colored argument. It's odd that Berg can't see it though. Is it worth the cold shouldered climate he is creating about himself? Is this stubborn, hypothetical argument worth alienating ones friends? Will the penny ever drop?

Summing up;

1. The Germans did not have the technology to mass gas Jews on the scale of the imagined fable. Nobody has. (Just as well for Jews)
2. Jews really do have impossibly weird imaginations.
3. and Berg, well, at the moment, he's just weird.
There was no holocaust.



Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 6 months ago (Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:49 am)

Kiwichap just came up with the following:

The recommendation in the fumigators handbook says: Make sure everything is dry. We don't want to be here all month cleaning this lethal toxic waste up. Even so, small amounts of cyanide can linger on dry objects. Proper fumigation techniques require any water, and water containing commodities, such as food, goldfish, dogs, cats and Jews, to be hermetically covered or removed from the scene before fumigating.


Did you make that up out of thin air? What "handbook" are you talking about? Put up or shut up!

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Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Kiwichap » 9 years 6 months ago (Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:01 am)

HCN - Solubility in water - infinite at all temperatures
Growing Plants and Trees

A considerable amount of injury, either temporary or permanent, may be sustained by actively growing plants fumigated with HCN. Because this gas is very soluble in water, special precautions have to be taken to reduce the amount of moisture on leaves and stems and in pots or soil balls of actively growing plants. Therefore, the plants should not be watered for one or more days before treatment.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5042e/x5042E0b.htm#Hydrogen%20cyanide%20(HCN)


There ya go Berg. Ya gotta dry each leaf before the gassing. HCN loves water, it loves people too, especially when they're wet. According to the handbook, Fruit must be dry, plants must be dry, everything must be dry. If its wet you have a problem getting rid of it. HCN is most firmly retained by wet things.

Berg, we have had this discussion before. I have posted portions of the HCN fumigators handbook before. All basins and tubs must have their plugs in. All open water areas must be covered, especially if they have fish in them. There are regulations in force when it comes to HCN fumigation, and water, or dryness, is a key element. Don't fumigate with HCN on humid days, it will settle on everything and be bugger to get off. "No going home early for you today lad. You'll have to keep these blowers going till midnight. I told you to wait for a warm sunny day.
There was no holocaust.



Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.


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