Why didn't the Nazis kill the Jews?

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Why didn't the Nazis kill the Jews?

Postby Hans » 1 decade 10 months ago (Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:23 pm)

The Nazis did kill German people which were considered mentally or physically severely ill and genitically inferiour. It was called Euthanasia, killing of life not worth to live, and was carried out in Germany during the war. Now, I think Revisionists will agree that the Nazis regarded the Jews as inferiour people and Jews not fit for work as useless eaters. Moreover, the Jews were seen as internal enemy, as partisans and criminals towards the German people. What I don't get is, if they even killed Germans regarded as useless eaters, then why didn't they kill Jews regarded as useless eaters, internal enemey who were even of an inferiour race? To me, the extermination of the Jews would make perfectly sense in the framework of the Nazi Realpolitik and ideology. So - why didn't they do it?

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Re: Why didn't the Nazis kill the Jews?

Postby AHolland » 1 decade 10 months ago (Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:27 am)

Interesting question Hans. Lets give this topic a kick up.
I have never heard the revisionist standpoint on T4-program, so I'm curious!

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Re: Why didn't the Nazis kill the Jews?

Postby StuDewan » 1 decade 10 months ago (Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:43 am)

maybe because there was a plan to deport them east, to the Soviet territories... :roll:

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Re: Why didn't the Nazis kill the Jews?

Postby Lamprecht » 1 decade 10 months ago (Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:15 am)

Hitler and the top Nazis may have claimed Jews were inferior vermin but how much of that was their actual beliefs and how much of it was for propaganda purposes to try to make the Jews leave?

The easy answer to your question is that mentally deficient humans were "Mercy killed" and happens in the wild all the time - dogs and rodents, for example, eat the weakest of their babies.

I think it was more that Hitler didn't want Jews anywhere near the 3rd Reich but didn't necessarily want them exterminated and that he saw no reason to let a mentally deficient person suffer through life and potentially bring more people like him/her into the world.

Because if you think about it, they just put a strain on society and never really do anything with their lives - or at least the vast majority.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
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Re: Why didn't the Nazis kill the Jews?

Postby Pappy Yokum » 1 decade 10 months ago (Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:38 pm)

The Germans were not the only ones promoting eugenics. The American Eugenics Society was established in 1922 and still exists today. It has had Jewish presidents in its past. Thirty U.S. States passed eugenic sterilization laws between 1900 and 1940. Promoters of eugenics in the U.S., like Margaret Sanger believed the health of a population could be improved through social intervention. However, they generally stopped short of advocating euthanasia. Sanger rejected it.

The Nazis were more socialist than the American eugenics advocates. For them the state was central and the German collective was paramount. I have seen some high numbers of Germans euthanized during the 12 years of the Nazi Reich. I don't know if they are accurate. The socialist view is that people exist to serve the collective and the state. People who do not contribute to the strength of the group have no value. Germany was not self-sufficient in food production. For someone who advocates self-sufficiency and autarky, people who take more from state than they contribute would be worthless or at least unworthy.

This was not the Nazi view of the Jews. Jews were considered a separate race that could not be assimilated into German society. The Jews constituted a state within a state. Charitable organizations like the Joint Distribution Committee acted like a parallel government for the Jews inside Germany. These were linked to international groups like the World Jewish Congress. The Jews had international clout. They were not powerless imbeciles to be put down unnoticed. To compare the Jews to mental defectives is a mistake. I don't think it was a comparison the Nazis seriously made either.

Nazi rhetoric coming from Alfred Rosenberg always advocated a separation from the Jews: The Jews had to leave Germany. Between 1933 and 1939 the Nazi policy was to get the Jews to emigrate and to remove Jews from positions of political, social and economic leadership in Germany. After Germany and the Soviets invaded Poland, the ability of Jews to leave Nazi Germany became increasingly difficult. At the same time there were about two million more Jews in Nazi-occupied Poland to deal with. From 1940 to 1941 and the invasion of the Soviet Union, the Nazis looked into relocating Jews to captured French colonial possessions like Madagascar. As the Wehrmacht advanced into the Soviet territory, the Soviets retreated east with about 1/3 of the population or around 20 million people. These newly depopulated areas were seen as an opportunity to deport the Jews east. The Wannsee Protocol talks about this: "In the meantime the Reichsführer-SS and Chief of the German Police had prohibited emigration of Jews due to the dangers of an emigration in wartime and due to the possibilities of the East."

During 1942 and 1943 over two million Jews were deported East. The Nazis called it an evacuation or uprooting. Besides reaching the goal of forcing the Jews to leave, it also gave the German socialist state an opportunity to steal their property. Himmler talks about that in his Posnan speech of Oct 1943.

Julius Streicher testified after the war that the ultimate goal was to establish a Jewish state under international supervision. The purpose was to break international Jewish power by gathering Jews into one geographical location.

As the Wehrmacht was pushed westward in 1944 the policy changed again. Losing the war, the policy became to exploit the labor of Jews and hundreds of thousands of Jews were deported from Hungary. These people were distributed to factories and farms all over central and western Europe to fill labor shortages. The problem was labor was not the only shortage. The lack of raw materials needed for the war effort gave many of these laborers little to do.

Most of the deported Jews were "liberated" by the Red Army. The war displaced millions of people. Many could not go home because access was closed to them. There was no home to go to. These millions not only included Jews, but also Germans, Poles, Hungarians, Austrians, Ukrainians, White Russians, etc...
Jews returned to Poland on the Russian tanks. They became the Polish communist government. There was political blowback and many Jews who returned left communist Poland after the war was over.

The policy was never to kill the Jews. The policy was to make the Jews leave. The policy was to break the national and international political power of Jewry.
Last edited by Pappy Yokum on Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why didn't the Nazis kill the Jews?

Postby Gébé Tremblay » 1 decade 10 months ago (Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:26 pm)

Same here in Canada, eugenics was very strong. Mostly mental handicapts ands natives were castrated and prevented from breeding. Jews were not welcomed (because of their communism) but were not targeted for eugenics mesures.

Germany did everything it could to expell as much Jews the rest of the world would accept. Problem is that most of the rest of the world were also very aware of the "jewish problem".

Yet lot's of jews emmigrated, specially the ones with money. The jews that were left behind were the poor and the old. The billionaire jews in USA did not care for those and certainly did not want the european rich jews come and make them competition, that is why they insisted on US immigration to keep it's quotas.

The St-Louis story is representative of the jewish propaganda in action already in 1939 when the 900 passengers were refused entrance in Cuba. The official story tells about those poor 900 Jews escaping the horrors of Germany and the shamefull refusall of the american and canadian people refusing them and how lots of these jews waiting for weeks on this boat even tried to commit suicide because they did not wnat to go back to get gased in Germany. Then the boat sails around south america trying to find some kind people to accept them but that no one in the world would accept them. A real tear jerker.

Well, the real story is quite different. I made quite a deep investigation on this. To make it short, these were not poor jews at all, but very rich and middle class. They had 60 tons of stuff (furniture, personnal belongings etc..) with them to resell for cash (Germany would not let them out with cash to not affect the currency). The shipline company (HAPAG) that transported them there from Germany was a joint venture american-german company which the office and controlling share holders were in New York . These share holders were rich bankers and industrials of german and jewish origin (grand father of George W Bush was in the group). The fare they charged for those "poor" jews for the trip was 5 times the normal fee and they even forced them to pay an extra fee for "in case to boat woul have to return". Plus, they sold them the visas, at hefty price, they were buying illegaly from the corrupted cuban minister of immigration with full knowledge of Batista (friend of the jewish lawer for the Jewish Joint Distribution Committee). The rackett is even bigger than that but woul take too much time to write it here and now. As for the poor souls having beeing refuse refuge by the whole evil gentile world, well, the Dominican Republic just a few miles away from Cuba had already insisted it woul happilly accept no less than 100,000 Jews and GIVE each one land, cattle, and all they would need to build enterprises. The Jews refused the offer and would rather go BACK TO GERMANY ! They just could not accept the idea of putting there hands in dirt. So they tried the suicide show and the german horrors show. In the end they went back and started the same show for European countries.

In the few hundred boats carrying jewish refugies in that year, 800 jews accepted the Domincan republic's offer. They made very well and a jewish city was thus born, called Sosua.

The HAPAG already knew , weeks in advance that the visas would not be accepted.

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Re: Why didn't the Nazis kill the Jews?

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 10 months ago (Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:05 pm)

The Nazis didn't exactly think of Jews as inferior. The Nazis alleged that the Jews dominated the press, politics, the university. How is that inferior? How can that be compared to a severely mentally handicapped person?

When I think of severely mentally/physically handicapped, I think of someone who doesn't know their name, who can barely think, who has uncontrollable repetitive movements. Who wails uncontrollably. Whose hands uncontrollably turn at a sharp right angle to their arms, with fingers stretched out. People like that exist, and it brings up the question for some if that's "life unworthy of life." That's quite different than an alleged Jewish cabal that controls the film industry.

The holocaust connection to euthanasia is ridiculous. As Arthur Butz said in his 1976 book The Hoax of the Twentieth Century:

Morgen’s ploy obviously inspired the prosecution anew, because it had not occurred to relate exterminations to euthanasia. It was too late to develop the point at the IMT, so it was developed in Case 1 at the NMT (actually the euthanasia program is loosely linked with exterminations in the “Gerstein statement,” reproduced here in Appendix A – the Gerstein statement was put into evidence at the IMT long before Morgen’s testimony, but nobody paid any attention to its text). To us, this relating of exterminations to euthanasia is just another example of the “excess fact”; the inventors were so concerned with getting some real fact into their story that it did not occur to them that there are some real facts that a good hoax is better off without.

One caveat: I don't see where Morgen related the holocaust to euthanasia in the IMT transcript.

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Re: Why didn't the Nazis kill the Jews?

Postby Moderator » 1 decade 10 months ago (Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:16 pm)

There are threads at this forum on the 'Wannsee Protocol', it's veracity and curious origins, post to them.
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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