Just a few questions about Treblinka?

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Just a few questions about Treblinka?

Postby JustTheTruth » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:24 am)

1. If Treblinka was a "top-secret" extermination camp why did the SS never attempt to build crematorium there so they could do it "production-line" style like they were doing in Auschwitz instead of burning the bodies on open pyres for all the neighboring villages to see?

2. If you watch the video here (http://www.archive.org/details/nazi_concentration_camps) of the US liberated camps that were not extermination camps you will see them using the same system described by Treblinka victims however we also observe something else. The rail-tracks used to burn just a few bodies at a time as can be clearly seen in the video have not only warped and twisted with the heat - something NEVER described by the witnesses - but have left significant remains behind for even a small batch of body burning. These camps never had anything like the numbers of "victims" as Treblinka yet clearly had big problems disposing of the typhus victims using this system and makes a joke of the claims by witnesses that 2000+ bodies were burned AT ONE TIME using the same system, day in and out for a year.

Just look in the video how long it takes healthy Germans to exhume and drag bodies into burial pits and how eventually they used bulldozers to do the job. Survivors such as Yenkel Wernik would have us believe that he was doing this day in and day out for months, whilst being starved and beaten, as this was the best system the Germans could come up with for exterminating the Jews. So why doesn't he describe the tracks buckling and warping with the fires that burned all night with the flames reaching into the sky?

Using this system to dispose of 800,000+ bodies would have required a constant supply of rail-tracks and there would have been piles of the twisted and warped tracks to dispose of as well which strangely are never featured on any survivors maps or in their descriptions of the camp. The other problem with this story is that there is no way the Germans would have authorized the use of such a vital resource as rail-tracks during 1941 - 1942 as they were advancing into the Soviet territory which used a wider gauge and were desperately laying new tracks to supply their troops. Presumably there would also be requisition orders from at least one of these camps for the constant resupply of tracks which I am yet to discover, after all presumably many thousands of tracks would have been needed across these death camps to incinerate 1,500 000 people even in batches of 2000 or more at a time.

The solution of course would have been to fabricate special heat-resistant beams for these pyres but there are no records of such and all the witnesses describe rail-tracks on concrete bases.

Can anyone explain this?

3. In the movie Shoah, Treblinka peasants claim that they worked the land DIRECTLY ADJOINING the camp while it was operating and could see everything going on inside. Why would the SS allow the surrounding areas of the camp to be accessed at all by the locals and risk exposing their "top-secret" extermination facility?

4. Why didn't the Polish underground, which Yenkel Wernik immediately joined after his escape during the uprising and encouraged him to write his book, not immediately race to Treblinka and photograph the camp from the adjoining fields or pay the peasants to do it when they were working just one fence away from the extermination centre?

After all, the camp was still cleaning up for months after the revolt and they had managed to apparently smuggle a camera INTO Auschwitz and used it to take pictures of the burning of bodies there. That Wernik's book was used by the underground/resistance to alert the world about Treblinka, but they never bothered to go there themselves despite the security being so lax and the locals so easy to bribe, makes absolutely no logic at all. But then made-up stories rarely do make sense when confronted with logic and facts (hence the need for laws to prevent examination).

Also why did no-one from the Warsaw underground do the same but when the camp was in full extermination mode with 10,000 a day dying there after the infamous "Gas-chamber Barber of Treblinka", Bomba escaped and then RETURNED to the Warsaw ghetto?

5. Is it just a coincidence that the "Otto Program" (see below) was completed in June 1942 and Treblinka opened in July 1942?

[Starting in October of 1940, the DR and the Gedob were given orders to prepare and expand the existing German rail network in the east for a military campaign against the Soviet Union. The goal was to double the existing rail transportation capacities. This entire undertaking fell under the auspices of the "Otto" Program. Approximately 30.000 German and Polish railway employees worked for the program; 60% of the funding came from Germany and the remaining 40% from the GG. Despite loosing 10.000 "Otto" program participants to the mandatory "Winterhilfe" duties in Poland during the winter of 1940/1941 and considering the sheer enormity of the project itself - the "Otto" program met its goals on 15 June 1941. - source:http://www.feldgrau.com/dreichsbahn.html]

Does the completion of the expansion of the German rail network in the east, providing the ability to relocate millions into these new territories just before Treblinka was built, add weight to the suggestion that Treblinka was a transit, delousing and Jewish-wealth extraction centre, not an extermination facility?

Do the witness testimonies about the initial inability of Treblinka to accept all the trains sent there, that resulted in many dying in-transit and often whole trains arriving full of dead bodies, actually explain where the stories of the piles of bodes come from?

Are the huge number of deaths caused by delays in trains reaching Treblinka explain why the camp commander was dismissed and replaced after allowing so many trains to be sent without the capacity to process them?

Why wasn't he promoted after killing so many Jews without any cost?

Does this critical error and associated deaths also explain the need for the burial pits and disposal of the piles of bodies in Treblinka that are described by the witnesses?

Would the high water-table in Trablinka explain why the bodies were eventually exhumed and burned as they posed an enormous risk of contaminating the camp water supplies and spreading disease?

If the trains were so effective at killing Jews in transit, why not just move them around until they are dead then deliver the cargo to the camp for processing?

6. And finally, where are the camp delousing facilities that MUST have been there to delouse the clothes and possessions of the new arrivals and the camp staff and prisoners located on ANY of the survivor's maps?

I cannot find delousing facilities on any of the maps or sketches except one showing a small bath in the women's undressing barracks. If you take a fresh look at the maps they really show a facility that had "clean" and "dirty" areas with delousing facilities in between them. One can easily see how people were unloaded from the trains and were deloused along with their clothes before either entering the labour camp or retuning to the station square for relocation to the east.

It is much harder to see the camps being used as described by the witnesses especially considering they were supposedly purpose-built specifically as extermination facilities. Either the SS were really bad at designing an efficient system of extermination - in fact they apparently settled for what is probably the most inefficient system possible and liked it so much they replicated it at other camps - or these "witness" testimonies are fabrications and these are in fact delousing transit camps that had to dispose of thousands of bodies of Jews who died in-transit or shortly after arriving.

If not, where are the delousing facilities in Treblinka and how did they process the hundreds of Jewish prisoners selected from the transports to work in the two camps during the typhus epidemic?

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Re: Just a few questions about Treblinka?

Postby JustTheTruth » 9 years 6 months ago (Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:47 pm)

Interesting that no-one has been able to answer even one of my questions yet...

In the interim, I have come across one escapee from Treblinka who claims his mother went to Treblinka looking for him after his deportation. She forgot to take the underground with her, and then apparently could not get close to the camp because, when she reached a nearby village the smell of rotting and decomposing bodies seemingly made it clear that she could get no closer; so she left.

Pity she didn't ask one of the villagers to take a picture of the camp for her while she was there, especially considering they were working in the very next field and constantly trading with the camp; providing food, alcohol and prostitutes on a regular basis.

Oh, he also claims that - completely by chance - he bumped into two other escapees, also on the run from Treblinka, who happened to be in Warsaw when he was. Wow, this guy is one luck SOB. The fact that they were all part of the underground is conveniently omitted from this part of the story.

But then again, haven't you noticed that ALL the "survivors" experience remarkable luck in managing to escape death?

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Pappy Yokum
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Re: Just a few questions about Treblinka?

Postby Pappy Yokum » 9 years 5 months ago (Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:13 pm)

JustTheTruth wrote:3. In the movie Shoah, Treblinka peasants claim that they worked the land DIRECTLY ADJOINING the camp while it was operating and could see everything going on inside. Why would the SS allow the surrounding areas of the camp to be accessed at all by the locals and risk exposing their "top-secret" extermination facility?

This is explained in the snore-a-thon movie SHOAH. This is from the book that contains "The complete text of the film".

[Begin quote, page 25.]

Villagers (present-day Treblinka)
He had a field under a hundred yards from the camp. He also worked during the German occupation.

He worked his field?

Yes. He saw how they were asphyxiated; he heard them scream; he saw that. There's a small hill; he could see quite a bit.

What did this one say?

They couldn't stop and watch. It was forbidden. The Ukrainians shot at them.

But they could work a field a hundred yards from the camp?

They could. So occasionally he could steal a glance if the Ukrainians weren't looking.

He worked with his eyes lowered?


He worked by the barbed wire and heard awful screams.

His field was there?

Yes. Where the camp is now was partly his field. It was off-limits, but they heard everything.

It didn't bother him to work so near those screams?

At first, it was unbearable. Then you got used to it.

You get used to anything?


Now he thinks it was impossible. Yet it was true.

[End quote, page 27.]

I laugh every time I read that passage. That movie is full of incredibly, morbidly-funny material.

There you have it. The peasants kept their eyes lowered or the occasionally inattentive, universally bad marksmen, Ukrainian guards would shoot at them.

With all that burning and smoke, you would think that hearing screams would not be the most notable thing remembered. I guess they kept their noses plugged too. The SS knew that people who kept their eyes lowered could not be eyewitnesses. Like the rest of the Holocaust story, it was impossible. Yet is was true.
There is no argument. It is all settled when something is impossible, yet true.

I will relay more answers as I find them.

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