Death Squads

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athenarena
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Death Squads

Postby athenarena » 1 decade 1 week ago (Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:23 pm)

What horrifies me with the teaching of the Holocaust is that it concentrates on the camps and although that is a major part of the Holocaust, people forget the Death Squads.

Death Squads were battalions of SS men who went behind the army and into the towns and rounded up all the Jews in the town, took them to the fields or woods surrounding the town, forced the people to dig their own graves and then stand over the graves and the SS shot them. No humanity, you could die instantly or suffer a horrificly slow death. If anything that is one of the worst symbols of the loss of humanity in Nazi Germany. As many as one million people are said to have died this way.

I am a believer.
However, do tell me what you think about Death Squads.

All the best,
Athenarena

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Re: Death Squads

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 week ago (Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:30 pm)

The claim that the SS Einsatzgruppen shot 1M-2M Jews into pits is just another easily refuted lie.

Show us the excavations of the claimed mass graves that these so called 'Death Squads' supposedly shot Jews into. Show us, don't repeat Jewish Supremacists' unsupportable claims.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Death Squads

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 week ago (Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:16 am)

Athenarena should look at the thread about the "research" and book by Father Patrick Desbois at:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5410&hilit=Desbois

In spite of his highly publicized claims to having found the sites of 800 mass shootings, Desbois failed to find even a single bone fragment as evidence of any mass shooting.

The Good Guys really were the Nazis. The REAL mass murderers were the Jews aided and abetted by their subservient allies--the USA, Britain and the Soviet Union. Holocaust propaganda is merely the continuation of the same racist, genocidal war against the Germans albeit by less violent means.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Death Squads

Postby proxyserver » 1 decade 1 week ago (Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:30 am)

athenarena wrote:What horrifies me with the teaching of the Holocaust is that it concentrates on the camps and although that is a major part of the Holocaust, people forget the Death Squads.

Death Squads were battalions of SS men who went behind the army and into the towns and rounded up all the Jews in the town, took them to the fields or woods surrounding the town, forced the people to dig their own graves and then stand over the graves and the SS shot them. No humanity, you could die instantly or suffer a horrificly slow death. If anything that is one of the worst symbols of the loss of humanity in Nazi Germany. As many as one million people are said to have died this way.

I am a believer.
However, do tell me what you think about Death Squads.

All the best,
Athenarena


The fact is that these so-called "death squads" that you talk about were what was called the Einsatzgruppen, which, unless I am mistaken was a hard-core counter-partisan force of 3,000 Waffen-ss, which was supported by various Wehrmacht units and what were called the Order Police, and these auxiliaries numbered several thousands. The fact is, as is demonstrated by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_partisans that, despite their initial successes in Operation Barbarossa, the Germans were led into a serious trap by Stalin, who left behind a partisan infrastructure in retreat which soon became apparent to the Germans. What must be understood is that Stalin thought nothing of sacrificing the multi-millions of Soviet subjects in human wave attacks, and his Communist command economy beyond the reach of the Germans provided him with the means to supply the military technology which enabled him to drive the Germans back eventually, and, in the meantime, his partisans seriously harassed the Germans. Thus it is really absurd to think that the Einsatzgruppen were primary concerned with eliminating Jews, and if they did kill Jews (and perhaps unfortunately the Germans were only too happy to destroy anti-Communist ethnic groups, as they simply did not have the means to make distinctions between the native populace when it came to killing partisans), it was because these Jews allied themselves with the partisans, as is demonstrated here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_partisans

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Re: Death Squads

Postby proxyserver » 1 decade 1 week ago (Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:17 am)

athenarena wrote:
The claim that the SS Einsatzgruppen shot 1M-2M Jews into pits is just another easily refuted lie.


I said as many as 1 million were said to have. Said to have means appartently. Yeah, two million Jews is refuted because only one million Jews were killed in Russia.

Oh and please call me Rena, athenarena is too long and I do not want people to be writing so much.

As I stated before, I am a believer. I believe it happens but I have an appitude for history, learning and debating.

Athenarena should look at the thread about the "research" and book by Father Patrick Desbois at:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5410&hilit=Desbois

In spite of his highly publicized claims to having found the sites of 800 mass shootings, Desbois failed to find even a single bone fragment as evidence of any mass shooting.

The Good Guys really were the Nazis. The REAL mass murderers were the Jews aided and abetted by their subservient allies--the USA, Britain and the Soviet Union. Holocaust propaganda is merely the continuation of the same racist, genocidal war against the Germans albeit by less violent means.


Never heard of him. But if he did lie about that, well he is the idiot. Also, were the graves not lined with lime? Yes, I do believe they were. Lime dissolves everything.

The War was already justified before the Holocaust. France lay down and did not fight back but since the Nazis had taken over a non-German country it was an outrage -see Poland- and by the World War 2, Nazis were very hated.

Would you say that the people who were executed over the Holocaust were innocents?

Well the West with the UN's backing has always stood back during genocides unless the name of NATO or the UN was at stake. Remember Rwanda? Would you blame the Jews pulling out the UN forces because the US asked, because 18 men had died in Somalia a year before? Appartently our lives are worth more than Rwandans, Bosnians -we went in after the genocide started-, Cambodians. You want me to keep going?

This is why Shakespeare wrote his Merchant of Venice, that is why there have been anti-semitic laws.

I will repeat this again, I believe it happened like I am Michael Collins' relative.
The Jewish community are just as equal as the rest of us but they have taken more abuse than more communites except the Native Americans. They have lost somewhere around 100 million.

As an Irish person and proud of my history, I know what it is like to be under the thumb of someone more powerful. And you all know who that is.

So back on topic, thank you all for your opinions on Death Squads.
Please do not give me a wikipedia link, wikipedia is not an academic site and can be easily changed. If academia and proving your point, no wikipedia.
I think we can all agree on that? We are all being academic here, true?

The Holocaust occurred -my belief- but I concur to your belief and your views. I tolerate and I treat everyone as an equal.
Thank you for listening to me and replying, it is greatly appreciated.

All the best,
Rena.


"Never heard of him. But if he did lie about that, well he is the idiot. Also, were the graves not lined with lime? Yes, I do believe they were. Lime dissolves everything." That is absolute nonsense, as is proved by the following urls: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/ar ... ead=142764
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/jour ... 1&SRETRY=0
http://genocideinvisegrad.wordpress.com ... ss-murder/
http://www.johnnyjet.com/folder/archive ... -2009.html
You have to read these urls carefully in order to find the references to "lime" in their proper context.

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Re: Death Squads

Postby gbrecht » 1 decade 1 week ago (Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:15 am)

Oh wow, the biggest land war in human history in the east, the biggest air war in human history in the west, another land war in North Africa, a massive convoy disruption system in the Atlantic, supplying troops all over Europe, supplying millions of troops, tanks, and planes in Russia, supplying troops in North Africa, and you not only believe that Germany still had the capacity to interrupt their insanely massive supply chain in an effort to gas millions in multiple camps in a secret conspiracy which they managed to fail at covering up, but you also believe that 3000 trained men designated to deal with partisan activity behind the advancing Wehrmacht, also had the capability to kill upwards of 1 million Jews with bullets, and a few magical gas vans that I must assume they got from aliens to be able to complete this ridiculous task.

I apologize for being insulting, and I also apologize for the large run-on sentence, but I still do not understand how any moderately intelligent person can look at the facts of the holocaust and still believe them with utter fanaticism. Seriously, the Einsatzgruppen had a job, that job was to deal with partisans behind the Army, when you have massive panzer divisions taking huge amounts of land, inhabitants, and leaving the occasional small enemy unit behind the lines, someone has to deal with it. This was their purpose, not killing Jews with magical gas vans that could apparently vaporize the dead and leave no trace of bodies or any evidence whatsoever. People seem to lack the mental capacity to understand the Russian front, Germany didn't have a literal shoulder-to-shoulder army marching into Russia, it was large no doubt, but imagine the amount of people who would resist once the Germans had moved past, you cannot leave enemy resistance fighters and partisans behind the lines to sabotage your severely important supply lines. Again, the Einsatzgruppen had a purpose, and this was to police the rear of the advancing Wehrmacht. They also had other smaller duties after conquering countries such as Belgium, Netherlands etc. to secure government offices and buildings.

Also, the main focus of the holocaust, the supposed gassing of millions of Jews and others, happened when the war with the USSR was at its most dire. The German Army could barely supply its troops due to the Allied bombing during the late stages of the war, and people like you, Rena, don't seem to realize that they were even using horse-drawn carts to supply their men in the east. The most important shipping method was trains, do you seriously believe that while they were using everything at their disposal, even horses, to bring supplies to their troops, they would waste many trains every day to ship Jews, also along with food, supplies, etc. to the "death" camps to exterminate them? You really must think Germans are stupid if you believe this. We are going to waste countless trains shipping thousands of Jews to the "gas chambers" instead of focusing on this dire war we are fighting, because we really hate the Jews this much?

You must realize the Jews were valuable labor to the German war effort, they didn't try to kill them, they used them as free labor. If I recall correctly, Monowitz was the buna rubber facility, where thousands of Jews worked to produce buna rubber(synthetic coal rubber). In all the camps there were not just Jews, but easily as many and in most camps even more, criminal prisoners and political prisoners. They were put to work to help the war effort, not gassed.

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Re: Death Squads

Postby Moderator3 » 1 decade 6 days ago (Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:43 pm)

athenarena,
Please don't just rant, support your position with proof, if you can; we debate specifics here. Thanks.

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Re: Death Squads

Postby proxyserver » 1 decade 2 days ago (Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:36 pm)

gbrecht wrote:Oh wow, the biggest land war in human history in the east, the biggest air war in human history in the west, another land war in North Africa, a massive convoy disruption system in the Atlantic, supplying troops all over Europe, supplying millions of troops, tanks, and planes in Russia, supplying troops in North Africa, and you not only believe that Germany still had the capacity to interrupt their insanely massive supply chain in an effort to gas millions in multiple camps in a secret conspiracy which they managed to fail at covering up, but you also believe that 3000 trained men designated to deal with partisan activity behind the advancing Wehrmacht, also had the capability to kill upwards of 1 million Jews with bullets, and a few magical gas vans that I must assume they got from aliens to be able to complete this ridiculous task.

I apologize for being insulting, and I also apologize for the large run-on sentence, but I still do not understand how any moderately intelligent person can look at the facts of the holocaust and still believe them with utter fanaticism. Seriously, the Einsatzgruppen had a job, that job was to deal with partisans behind the Army, when you have massive panzer divisions taking huge amounts of land, inhabitants, and leaving the occasional small enemy unit behind the lines, someone has to deal with it. This was their purpose, not killing Jews with magical gas vans that could apparently vaporize the dead and leave no trace of bodies or any evidence whatsoever. People seem to lack the mental capacity to understand the Russian front, Germany didn't have a literal shoulder-to-shoulder army marching into Russia, it was large no doubt, but imagine the amount of people who would resist once the Germans had moved past, you cannot leave enemy resistance fighters and partisans behind the lines to sabotage your severely important supply lines. Again, the Einsatzgruppen had a purpose, and this was to police the rear of the advancing Wehrmacht. They also had other smaller duties after conquering countries such as Belgium, Netherlands etc. to secure government offices and buildings.

Also, the main focus of the holocaust, the supposed gassing of millions of Jews and others, happened when the war with the USSR was at its most dire. The German Army could barely supply its troops due to the Allied bombing during the late stages of the war, and people like you, Rena, don't seem to realize that they were even using horse-drawn carts to supply their men in the east. The most important shipping method was trains, do you seriously believe that while they were using everything at their disposal, even horses, to bring supplies to their troops, they would waste many trains every day to ship Jews, also along with food, supplies, etc. to the "death" camps to exterminate them? You really must think Germans are stupid if you believe this. We are going to waste countless trains shipping thousands of Jews to the "gas chambers" instead of focusing on this dire war we are fighting, because we really hate the Jews this much?

You must realize the Jews were valuable labor to the German war effort, they didn't try to kill them, they used them as free labor. If I recall correctly, Monowitz was the buna rubber facility, where thousands of Jews worked to produce buna rubber(synthetic coal rubber). In all the camps there were not just Jews, but easily as many and in most camps even more, criminal prisoners and political prisoners. They were put to work to help the war effort, not gassed.


gbrecht says: "...but you also believe that 3000 trained men designated to deal with partisan activity behind the advancing Wehrmacht, also had the capability to kill upwards of 1 million Jews with bullets..." However, it is not quite true that only 3000 fighters were assigned to deal with the Communists partisans, who, as historians confirm, were a formidable enemy for the Germans, and, as this quotation from the following source http://206.252.132.4/en/trial/judgement/06.08 shows, there were altogether 30,000, including the Einsatzgruppen and auxiliaries, which would be a far more realistic number of counter-partisans. Of course, the source quoted has a distinctly "exterminationist" bias about it, but that can't be helped.

6.43 Irving expressed doubts about the logistical feasibility of the Einsatzgruppen having been able to carry out executions on the reported scale, given their limited numbers and equipment and the other tasks which they were charged with carrying out. The Einsatzgruppen consisted of only 3,000 men. But Browning pointed out that the army was called on to provide support. Longerich calculated that, if allowance is made for the auxiliary manpower available, the total number of those involved in the shootings would have been around 30,000.


The main evidence against the notion that there was a determined attempt to exterminate all Soviet Jews is that there is little or no forensic evidence. For instance, even those who are "exterminationists" are amazed that there is no forensic evidence at Babi Yar for an alleged mass extermination, as is shown here http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/7595?page=1


For well known reasons the link in the above quote is unable to be accessed. However I will detail what I meant in relation to Babi Yar. What I was referring to was a recently published book by Bernhard Schlink called Guilt About the Past ( http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bookshow/stori ... 649429.htm ), which apparently accepts the conventional "Holocaust" narrative, in which the author actually says that his law students are puzzled by the fact that there is little or no forensic evidence for the alleged atrocities of the Einsatzgruppen, and Schlink mentions Babi Yar in this regard, in which he says that there is some evidence there of shootings on a small scale of not necessarily Jews, but no evidence of the alleged death there of about 33,000 Jews. There is in fact little in his book to interest serious students of the "Holocaust" apart from that, as it just mostly the usual misconceived handwringing about the evil Nazi forefarthers of the present generation, and it is best to check out in the index about "Babi Yar" if you find the book in a store or library.

In the link above expanded ( http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bookshow/stori ... 649429.htm ) there is a very interesting quotation which should be considered"

Ramona Koval: So in the '60s, as you say, you are now in your 20s and at university, and the Auschwitz trials begin, and what years was that? Was that early '60s to the late '60s?

Bernhard Schlink: That was '63, '64, '65. That had a very strong impact on all of us.

Ramona Koval: How come it took 20 years for that to happen? What was going on? Who was engineering the trials?

Bernhard Schlink: It's interesting, it could have even taken longer. In the late '50s we had the first trial of this new series of trials, and it only came to the trial because one member of the Einsatzgruppen, you know, these groups that behind the front killed Jews but also Poles and Russians, he insisted on getting a better pension that he got, to the point that it became so public what he had done that the prosecutor's office decided something had to happen. Then a special prosecutor's office was instituted that focused only on the crimes of the Third Reich, and that led to these...

Ramona Koval: So if that man hadn't been so insistent on his pension, nothing would have happened?

Bernhard Schlink: Well, it could have taken another couple of years. But his mentality shows the atmosphere of those years, that he thought he could. Okay, then the judicial system responded, instituting this special prosecutor's office, and they did a great job. I mean, those who went there were those who really wanted to change things, and that led to the Auschwitz trials.


Could one reasonably reduce from the above quotation that the real reason for the war crimes trials relating to the Einsatzgruppen only came about in order to prevent members of the Waffen-SS, and other types of German soldiers who acted as auxiliaries from rightfully demanding their just war pensions?

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Re: Death Squads

Postby gbrecht » 9 years 11 months ago (Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:40 am)

Still any logical person who looks at the war in the east would think, why would they waste munitions and manpower to get rid of Jews while they are fighting a serious war? It's simple, they didn't.

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Re: Death Squads

Postby Hektor » 9 years 11 months ago (Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:08 am)

gbrecht wrote:Still any logical person who looks at the war in the east would think, why would they waste munitions and manpower to get rid of Jews while they are fighting a serious war? It's simple, they didn't.
Unless this "getting rid of Jews" was part of the war effort. This it would be, if those Jews being hunted down and shot were actually partisans and their helpers.


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