jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:25 pm)

Fishing for Jews in Russia’s muddy waters


Some 233,000 Russians self-identified as Jews in the last Russian census in 2002, but Jewish leaders believe it's an underestimate. (Khamovniki Jewish community)
MOSCOW (JTA) -- This spring, Howard Flower and his assistants plan to go to Russia’s westernmost region, Kaliningrad, on a fishing expedition: They’re fishing for Jews.

Flower, the aliyah director of the Russian office of the International Christian Embassy, a pro-Israel evangelical group, plans to look through telephone directories for Jewish-sounding names and meet with local leaders in an attempt to find far-flung Jews -- some of whom might not even realize they’re Jewish -- and talk to them about moving to Israel.

As elsewhere in the world, determining who is Jewish in Russia is more an art than a science.

In the 2002 Russian census, the country’s most recent, 233,000 Russians self-identified as Jews. Jewish leaders here and abroad consider the figure an underestimate, but they can’t agree on the actual figure or how to determine it.

“Anyone who works in Jewish organizations knows that the real number of Jews is higher than records show because many people do not receive any services and thus are not registered anywhere,” said Rabbi Yosef Hersonski, head of the Khamovniki community in Moscow. “Probably they are not interested. But if their mother was Jewish, we consider them Jews.”

One of Russia’s chief rabbis, Berel Lazar, estimates the number of Jews in Russia at 1 million to 2 million; he considers as Jews all those with a Jewish mother. NCSJ, a U.S.-based advocacy group for Russian-speaking Jews, estimates that Russia has 400,000 to 700,000 Jews, and 1 million to 1.5 million in the former Soviet Union as a whole.

A representative for the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee, the largest Jewish aid group active in Russia, declined to speculate on a figure.

“We have not yet found reliable data based on sound methodology about the number of Jews in Russia,” JDC representative Rina Edelshtein said.

Across Russia, approximately 100,000 Jews are registered with their local Jewish community organizations. To be registered, one has to prove Jewishness.

It’s often not a simple thing.

Official records tend to be a mess. In the Soviet era, ethnicity was delineated on adults’ internal passports. Those with two Jewish parents were registered as Jewish, but the children of mixed marriages could choose the ethnicity of either parent. Since Jews suffered discrimination in the Soviet Union, the products of intermarriages usually did not register as Jewish.

The situation was captured best perhaps in a joke popular at the height of the Soviet Jews’ struggle for immigration to Israel.

“How many Jews are there in the USSR?” Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev asks the head of the KGB.

“Two-and-a-half million,” the KGB head replies. “But if we let them leave, there will be 6 million.”

By the time the Iron Curtain fell and Soviet Jews obtained the right to emigrate, there were 1.8 million Jews in the Soviet Union, including 570,000 in Russia, according to 1989 census data. Most have left since then, moving to Israel, the United States and Germany.

The Israeli Embassy in Moscow says it knows only about those who qualify for aliyah, or immigration to Israel, under Israel’s Law of Return. Under those criteria, anyone with a Jewish grandparent is eligible.

The Nativ organization, which deals with aliyah in the former Soviet Union, estimated that 530,000 Russians meet the criteria for aliyah, according to embassy spokesman Alex Goldman-Shaiman. How many are legitimately Jewish is unknown, he said.

Mark Tolts, a demographer at Hebrew University in Jerusalem and the author of the “Encyclopedia of Jews in Eastern Europe,” estimates that only about 255,000 Jews live in Russia. He bases his figures on census data.

“If you speak of a million Jews, show me the method with which you counted them,” Tolts said. “Given the proliferation of mixed marriages among the Jews of the former Soviet Union in the last generations, it is very difficult to empirically determine the number of Jews, according to halachah. Demographers base their figures on the statistic data they have. These are mainly census results, vital and migration statistics.”

Tolts says that 1.5 million people did not state their nationality during the 2002 census; he guesses that at least 20,000 were Jews.

However, Tolts’ figure of 255,000 refers only to the so-called "core Jewish population” -- the aggregate of those who, when asked, identify themselves as Jews or, in the case of children, are identified as such by their parents. It does not include those of Jewish origin who report another ethnicity in the census. Russian passports dropped the ethnicity field in 1994.

To complicate matters, some Russians of Jewish lineage are baptized yet still identify as Jews when asked about ethnicity.

“The main dilemma is who should be called Jews,” said Mark Levin, the executive director of NSCJ.

Flowers, of the International Christian Embassy, called counting Russia’s Jews “one of the trickiest questions facing man.”

His organization recently provided the Jewish Agency for Israel with a list of 1.2 million people in Russia whose names sound Jewish, all of whom were found in online and print telephone directories.

In 2004, a similar list of 30,000 names among St. Petersburg residents was examined. The Jewish Agency chose 10,000 that seemed Jewish and called them. More than 2,000 expressed some interest either in immigrating n to Israel or in Jewish community events, according to Flowers.

Along with halachic and ethnic standards, he said the methodology introduced a new way of counting Jews: “phonetically.”


http://jta.org/news/article/2010/02/23/ ... ddy-waters

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby Balsamo » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:47 pm)

Greg Gerdes wrote:The purpose of this thread is to establish a repository for the evidence that jews sent to the east by the Germans (via the transit camps), were rounded up by the Soviets and put into the Gulag. Of course, the proof that they were lies in the fact that the fraudulently alleged "pure extermination centers" were in fact transit camps, because not so much as one single grave that contains so much as 1 / 10,000 of 1 % of the alleged mass murder (1/3 of the entire holohoax) has ever been located / proven to exist as said fraudulently alleged "pure extermination centers / transit camps."

I would like to present, as exhibit # 1 for this thread - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's book - The Gulag Archipelago. If you haven't read this book yet, you don't know the holohoax. It will give you answers for things that you didn't even know there were questions about.

And for exhibit # 2, I give you:


Surviving the Camps but Struggling in Brooklyn

New York Times, January 21, 2010

By JENNIFER MASCIA


Ruth Usherenko keeps an improbably thick book on a table beside the couch in her living room. In it are roughly 58,000 names, all belonging to Jewish Berliners who perished during Hitler's regime. "All my girlfriends, all my relatives, all my neighbors are in here,"

...Beside her sat her sister, Toni Usherenko, 85, equally diminutive and delicate, who spoke in the same halting hybrid of Russian and English. The two live a block apart in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn, maintaining a closeness forged during World War II and later in a Siberian prison camp...

The sisters spent their early years in Neustrelitz, a town in northern Germany. After their father, a tailor, became a target of Nazi intimidation, the family moved to Berlin...

The girls' father was badly beaten in the riot, suffering a heart attack and a damaged kidney. Three years later, he was taken to Sachsenhausen concentration camp, where he perished.

Weeks after their father was apprehended, Ruth, Toni and their mother were taken to Gross-Rosen , a work camp...

In 1945, the three women were sent by the Soviets to a labor camp in Siberia; they were considered suspect because of their religion and their German provenance.

"We couldn't speak one word of Russian," Ruth Usherenko recalled. "They didn't feed us. When people died, they didn't bury them — they put them in the forest and the wolves were eating them."

So complete was their isolation that they did not know when the war ended. "Stalin passed away in 1953, and they released us in 1955," Ruth Usherenko recalled. "A woman came to us and said, `The war is over.' "

The three women settled in the Ukrainian town of Dnepropetrovsk, where they worked as milliners. The sisters married — Ruth to a shoemaker and Toni to an aviation engineer — and in 1981, after years of trying to leave the Soviet Union, the families were able to emigrate to Brooklyn...

But having money for heat is most important to Ms. Usherenko, perhaps because the cold is a reminder of the frigid decade she spent in Siberia. "They put us in a cold school, no steam," she recounted. "We had one blanket for me, my mother and my sister. Everybody died."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/21/nyreg ... mps&st=cse



To go back to the topic. There are some funny things in this story. And i don't see the point of relying on such a crazy testimony to proove anything.
I don't have the time to elaborate, but here are some annoying details

- The Father was sent to Sachsenhausen which is not known to be a camp were Jews were sent for being jews. It was a concentration camp where politicals (and others indesirables) were sent. What has he done to be sent there...?
- The case of his family is even stranger : Gross Rosen was like a prison (quite cruel) but still, a working camp...What and where are the proofs that family have been sent there ?
- Do you really believe that the SS were practising medical experiments on teenagers in 1936 ?
- Anyway, Gross Rosen was "liberated" by the red army at the mid/end of February 1945 ? At this time, what kind of fool must one be (the ladies were 20 years old at the time) to believe that the war could have lasted 8 more years ?

So i don't know what happened to this family...but this testimony is non-sense...
There is no secret that Germans were taken quite arbitrarily to become Labour Slaves to clean up Russia...only because there were Germans...the Goulag was not even their prime destination...as Siberia was unarmed by the war...pointless...
It is absolutly "normal" that a few victims, jews, communists or whatever kind of prisonners of the Nazi's regime, were taken the same way...

So i don't see the point using such a testimony to proove anything. You don't have to be a goulag deniers to consider this kind of testimonies no better as Wiesel's, do you ?
Please explain.

Thanks

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:29 pm)

The following is from the book – THE LONG WALK – The True Story Of A Trek To Freedom, by Slavomir Rawicz. It’s the story of a Polish Cavalry Lieutenant who was arrested by the Soviets, sent to a Gulag in Siberia and his escape.

We’ll pick things up at the beginning of Chapter Four, titled – Three Thousand Miles By Train:


“… the endless-seeming ride entered its third week, with the train well into Western Siberia.

... We went on gleaning things about one another. I discovered that no one in this crowd had a lighter sentence than ten years hard labor. My own sentence of twenty-five years was fairly common and there were a few even longer.

… I did not want particularly to bring my mind back to Poland, but there was nothing else to do. I think it was an escape backwards to the memory of freedom.
It was the little Jew who started me recalling it all. He posed me an odd question – for a Jew, a most odd question. When the Germans came through in the West and the Russians in the East, this little man with his little shop in Beloyostok realized on his stock and bought diamonds. He had relatives in Zyrardow, the textile centre near Warsaw, and a shoemaker friend who made him a special pair of boots into which he built the diamonds. So, his preparations made, he set out to flee Poland. Where was he going? Why, to Germany. Because, he said, he did not trust the Russians. But, I argued, the Germans would have killed you: they hate Jews. “Maybe, maybe,” he answered. “But at least I was right about distrusting the Russians. Just look at me now.” Perhaps it was well for him that he never was given the chance to test the Germans. The Russians caught him trying to cross the border and that meant an almost automatic sentence of ten years. Trying to escape from your liberators can be regarded as very anti-social behaviour.”



The question isn’t whether or not the Soviets sent jews into the Gulag system – The only question that remains is – How many?

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby Balsamo » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:04 pm)

Greg Gerdes wrote:The following is from the book – THE LONG WALK – The True Story Of A Trek To Freedom, by Slavomir Rawicz. It’s the story of a Polish Cavalry Lieutenant who was arrested by the Soviets, sent to a Gulag in Siberia and his escape.

We’ll pick things up at the beginning of Chapter Four, titled – Three Thousand Miles By Train:


“… the endless-seeming ride entered its third week, with the train well into Western Siberia.

... We went on gleaning things about one another. I discovered that no one in this crowd had a lighter sentence than ten years hard labor. My own sentence of twenty-five years was fairly common and there were a few even longer.

… I did not want particularly to bring my mind back to Poland, but there was nothing else to do. I think it was an escape backwards to the memory of freedom.
It was the little Jew who started me recalling it all. He posed me an odd question – for a Jew, a most odd question. When the Germans came through in the West and the Russians in the East, this little man with his little shop in Beloyostok realized on his stock and bought diamonds. He had relatives in Zyrardow, the textile centre near Warsaw, and a shoemaker friend who made him a special pair of boots into which he built the diamonds. So, his preparations made, he set out to flee Poland. Where was he going? Why, to Germany. Because, he said, he did not trust the Russians. But, I argued, the Germans would have killed you: they hate Jews. “Maybe, maybe,” he answered. “But at least I was right about distrusting the Russians. Just look at me now.” Perhaps it was well for him that he never was given the chance to test the Germans. The Russians caught him trying to cross the border and that meant an almost automatic sentence of ten years. Trying to escape from your liberators can be regarded as very anti-social behaviour.”



The question isn’t whether or not the Soviets sent jews into the Gulag system – The only question that remains is – How many?


The Soviets did not recognize religions at all, mister Gerdes. They did not give a damm if you were Jew or muslim. The Poor Pal was not sentenced to Goulag because of he was a Jew but because he tried to cross the border, as would have been everyone. AS the story tells, the poor Jews was never sent to a KL, so he was treated as a Pole.
The "liberated Jews" were treated based on their nationalities. A who lot were nevertheless allowed to emigrate to Israel. French Jews were sent back to France from Odessa, etc... And of course a whole lot of Germans were taken by the Soviets as labour slaves to rebuild their country

PS i would like you to answer the question above : Do you believe the fact that the SS were practising medical experiments in teenagers in 1936 ?

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby mcurtis5000 » 9 years 6 months ago (Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:43 am)

joachim neander wrote:I applied the same yardstick Revisionists use when discussing Nazi crimes: no documents, all hearsay ("eyewitnesses=liewitnesses") or literary fiction (Wiesel).
BTW, did you check what the institutions you mentioned (Harvard University, the U.S. National Park Service) say with regard to the Holocaust? And would you trust them in this case, too?


I think this is a fair approach. We can discuss the Stalinist period of Soviet History in this thread and compare it to the Holocaust if you would like to, but we would be caught using documents and testimony from and by sources that revisionists trust in one case (Stalinist era) that are quite the same for the Holocaust. Joachim I have to agree with you. However, there is a topic mentioned and that was shooting people in the neck. Didn't they, the Germans, do things like this on the initial sweep through Poland and Soviet lands ferreting out huge groups of Jews and shoot them in the neck. This is the exact description shooting squad members spoke about. However, that is probably not valid testimony or diary entries. Where are we left in this discussion? How can we discuss and compare anything if one set of comparison is right away invalid?

Mike
Last edited by mcurtis5000 on Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby Hektor » 9 years 6 months ago (Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:13 pm)

mcurtis5000 wrote:
joachim neander wrote:I applied the same yardstick Revisionists use when discussing Nazi crimes: no documents, all hearsay ("eyewitnesses=liewitnesses") or literary fiction (Wiesel).
BTW, did you check what the institutions you mentioned (Harvard University, the U.S. National Park Service) say with regard to the Holocaust? And would you trust them in this case, too?


I think this is a fair approach. We can discuss the Stalinist period of Soviet History in this thread and compare it to the Holocaust if you would like to, but we would be [b]caught using documents and testimony from and by sources that revisionists trust in one case (Stalinist era) that are quite the same for the Holocaust. [/b]Joachim I have to agree with you. However, there is a topic mentioned and that was shooting people in the neck. Didn't they, the Germans, do thinks like this on the initial sweep through Poland and Soviet lands ferreting out huge groups of Jews and shoot them in the neck. ...
There is a difference between the two, Communist gulag and National-Socialist concentration camps. In the case of the NS concentration camps all of them were open to access by Germanies enemies and anyone that would look for evidence against the NS. With the Gulag it isn't the case. Russia and it's subjects remained under Communism for decades, so no critical investigation was possible. If one pretends to be fair, one shouldn't fail to acknowledge the historical difference.

In any case the exterminationists failed for decades to come up with hard evidence for a program killing jews by homicidal gassings. The Gulag subject still requires lots of investigation, and I'm confident we will get a good picture once such investigation is conducted. Fortunately the board isn't set one sided and their won't be any persecutions of "Gulag denial", so critical assesment of the findings or claims being made, will still be possible.

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby mcurtis5000 » 9 years 6 months ago (Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:24 pm)

Hektor wrote:
mcurtis5000 wrote:
joachim neander wrote:I applied the same yardstick Revisionists use when discussing Nazi crimes: no documents, all hearsay ("eyewitnesses=liewitnesses") or literary fiction (Wiesel).
BTW, did you check what the institutions you mentioned (Harvard University, the U.S. National Park Service) say with regard to the Holocaust? And would you trust them in this case, too?


I think this is a fair approach. We can discuss the Stalinist period of Soviet History in this thread and compare it to the Holocaust if you would like to, but we would be [b]caught using documents and testimony from and by sources that revisionists trust in one case (Stalinist era) that are quite the same for the Holocaust. [/b]Joachim I have to agree with you. However, there is a topic mentioned and that was shooting people in the neck. Didn't they, the Germans, do things like this on the initial sweep through Poland and Soviet lands ferreting out huge groups of Jews and shoot them in the neck. ...
There is a difference between the two, Communist gulag and National-Socialist concentration camps. In the case of the NS concentration camps all of them were open to access by Germanies enemies and anyone that would look for evidence against the NS. With the Gulag it isn't the case. Russia and it's subjects remained under Communism for decades, so no critical investigation was possible. If one pretends to be fair, one shouldn't fail to acknowledge the historical difference.

In any case the exterminationists failed for decades to come up with hard evidence for a program killing jews by homicidal gassings. The Gulag subject still requires lots of investigation, and I'm confident we will get a good picture once such investigation is conducted. Fortunately the board isn't set one sided and their won't be any persecutions of "Gulag denial", so critical assesment of the findings or claims being made, will still be possible.


The allies did not have access to the majority of the death camps as you claim. The cold war began and access was not allowed. I'm not after "Gulag denial" for that is a point that Joachim's trying to get across to members here. He lives in Poland an is quite damiliar with the records that exist in the cases for the soviet gulags. (My example is usually trying to get revisionists to prove the battle of the Alamo. :) ) However the first trial involving Auschwitz was prior to Nuremberg and was at Begen-Belsen. Mnay many of the guards and commanders were moved from Auschwitz to Bergen-Belsen which was liberated by the British. The first hints of what some of these camps came from the captured Germans and survivors of Bergen-Belsen. This was direct stuff you understand. Forever during the cold war the west had dribbles of books by those escaping or having spent time in the Gulags. The Soviets could not handle or refute a huge 3-volume expose of their Stalinist system in the 1970s. What is available to the public and scolars now as far as documentation will like that which is available for many a Nazi death camp.

This, I think, is Joachim's point.

Mike

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:54 pm)

Balsamo

PS i would like you to answer the question above : Do you believe the fact that the SS were practising medical experiments in teenagers in 1936 ?



Irrelevant question.

This thread is about jews sent to the Soviet Gulag, a fact that has been established.

Remember:

The question isn’t whether or not the Soviets sent jews into the Gulag system, we know that happened – The only question that remains is – How many?

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby Balsamo » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:29 pm)

Greg Gerdes wrote:Balsamo

PS i would like you to answer the question above : Do you believe the fact that the SS were practising medical experiments in teenagers in 1936 ?



Irrelevant question.

This thread is about jews sent to the Soviet Gulag, a fact that has been established.

Remember:

The question isn’t whether or not the Soviets sent jews into the Gulag system, we know that happened – The only question that remains is – How many?



Irrelevant ?
It is pure methodological criticism of your eye-witness...I guess you would react if i would use Zisblatt to prove anything about Birkenau, wouldn't you ?

It is an established fact, as you say, that the Soviets sent a lot of people to Gulags, Jews and non-jews alike...as i said, the Soviets did not give a damm of your religion. You were socialist or anti-socialist, an ally or a threat to Stalin...I don't think that Stalin had Trotsky killed because his real name was Bernstein and was a Jew...
But if your idea is to present an explanation of what happened to the Jews who have been sent to KL, you'll need more than these two poor testimonies. I don't criticize your idea, but your sources : two inconsistent old laydies from Brooklyn and a Polish who knew a jew that was convinced of trying to cross the Iron Curtain...Give us more, please...Because, it is your theory that all the Jews liberated from the Germans camps were sent to Gulag, It is NOT an established fact!

Still you need to explain why so many Jews had been allowed to move to Israel from Eastern Europe in the 50's...

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:22 pm)

Balsamo

Give us more, please



Glad to Balsamo:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5943


Balsamo:

it is your theory that all the Jews liberated from the Germans camps were sent to Gulag



Please don't spew such obvious lies Balsamo. You know my basic premise is this:

The question isn’t whether or not the Soviets sent jews into the Gulag system, we know that happened – The only question that remains is – How many?

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby Balsamo » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:50 pm)

Greg Gerdes wrote:Balsamo

Give us more, please



Glad to Balsamo:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5943


Balsamo:

it is your theory that all the Jews liberated from the Germans camps were sent to Gulag



Please don't spew such obvious lies Balsamo. You know my basic premise is this:

The question isn’t whether or not the Soviets sent jews into the Gulag system, we know that happened – The only question that remains is – How many?



Well ok then, BUT WHAT does it - The number of people sent to gulag -have to do with the Holocaust or Holohoax ? So if there would be a link, it would be that Stalin did what Hitler did ? Sent Jews to Gulag because they were Jews ? If not, what is the point in common with the Holocaust ?
Anyway, thanks for the link...i will take the time to read it

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby mcurtis5000 » 9 years 6 months ago (Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:56 am)

Well ok then, BUT WHAT does it - The number of people sent to gulag -have to do with the Holocaust or Holohoax ? So if there would be a link, it would be that Stalin did what Hitler did ? Sent Jews to Gulag because they were Jews ? If not, what is the point in common with the Holocaust ?
Anyway, thanks for the link...i will take the time to read it


Note to Moderator first: I log in and the board takes me to page where I appear to not be logged in on? How come? If I choose to reply, but have not logged in, then I log in, I go to a page where I'm no longer logged in. Is this a software quirk of the board?

Mr. Gerdes has crashed over Hektor and I and he seems to post the most in this group out of all those here. So, I need to ask about sources on this stuff that he is presenting. I have the 3 volume Solzhenitsyn set written about his experiences in the Soviet system, Orlando Figes' The Whisperers, The Court of the Red Czar, and Applebaum's Gulag. I read The Long Walk years ago and it was mostly an adventure/survival book. Do I have enough here to uderstand the workings of the Gulag System in the Soviet Union. Oh, I also have Taubman's Khrushchev which I see in my shelves. Admittedly I'm a beginner at this stuff Soviet, but I have also read a book called After the Reich: The Brutal History of the Allied Occupation as well, so what do I need to further understand the Stalinist and the cold war period?

I want to get this thread back on a informative nature rather than attacks on yourself or Neander.

Mike

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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby Dolma » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:42 pm)

mcurtis5000:

I read The Long Walk years ago and it was mostly an adventure/survival book.


It is my understanding that that book is fraudulent.

Balsamo:

It is an established fact, as you say, that the Soviets sent a lot of people to Gulags, Jews and non-jews alike


So the answer to the question (on another thread): "Where did the Jews go then?" is as simple as "To the east."

And there is more than enough conclusvive evidence on CODOH to prove it. See more here:

AR Survivors / Treblinka

Balsamo:

So if there would be a link, it would be that Stalin did what Hitler did ? Sent Jews to Gulag because they were Jews ?


No. foreign Jews were not sent to the gulag because they were Jews, it was because they were foreigners.

One more thing Balsamo: Jews were not explelled from Germany "because they were Jews." They were expelled because of their disloyal behavior.

I'm editing this to add something that you need to understand Balsamo. The communitsts considered a person a threat if they had ever traveled abroad. (Especially someone who went to school abroad.) So being from abroad was almost a sure bet you would get sent to the gulag.
Last edited by Dolma on Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: jews, Transit Camps and the Soviet Gulag

Postby Dolma » 5 years 9 months ago (Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:27 pm)

Greg Gerdes:

This thread is about jews sent to the Soviet Gulag, a fact that has been established. Remember: The question isn’t whether or not the Soviets sent jews into the Gulag system, we know that happened – The only question that remains is – How many? ...it was the communists - not the Germans, who holocausted all those exiled jews. Holocaust by Soviet Gulag


So maybe a more precise answer to the question: "Where did the Jews go then?" is "To the east by the Germans and then further east by the Soviet's."
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