How many Jews were Under German control?

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Dan Cullum
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How many Jews were Under German control?

Postby Dan Cullum » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:25 pm)

I thought that since this forum is stimulating more debate, that a good starting point is a few of the 66 Questions and Answers about the Holocaust at Nizkor. The reason is that both the IHR and Nizkor's views are presented. I suppose that one could add Ernst Zundel's responses, but two sides would balance things. The following is from http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar15.html

15. How many Jews were in areas that came to be controlled by the Germans before the war?

The IHR says (original):

Fewer than four million.

The IHR says (revised):

Fewer than six million.

Nizkor replies:

Didn't they just say in question 1 that there were "no credible demographic statistics"?

About three million in Poland, a million in Hungary, more than a million in the area of Russia occupied by the Nazis, and many, many more all over Europe. According to the Nazis' own figures given in the Wannsee Protocol, there were eleven million Jews in occupied Europe in 1942. See the reply to question 1.

Note also that if real historians had changed a Holocaust-related estimate from six million to four million or vice versa, the "revisionists" would be repeating it and citing it as proof that historians are changing their story and don't have any real figures to back up what they say. But when the revisionists change their own figures by two million, they don't raise much of a fuss, it seems.


From: http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/places/germany/wannsee/wannsee-english.html

Approximately 11 million Jews will be involved in the final solution of the European Jewish question, distributed as follows among the individual countries:


Country Number

A. Germany proper 131,800
Austria 43,700
Eastern territories 420,000
General Government 2,284,000
Bialystok 400,000
Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia 74,200
Estonia - free of Jews -
Latvia 3,500
Lithuania 34,000
Belgium 43,000
Denmark 5,600
France / occupied territory 165,000
unoccupied territory 700,000
Greece 69,600
Netherlands 160,800
Norway 1,300

B. Bulgaria 48,000
England 330,000
Finland 2,300
Ireland 4,000
Italy including Sardinia 58,000
Albania 200
Croatia 40,000
Portugal 3,000
Rumania including Bessarabia 342,000
Sweden 8,000
Switzerland 18,000
Serbia 10,000
Slovakia 88,000
Spain 6,000
Turkey (European portion) 55,500
Hungary 742,800
USSR 5,000,000
Ukraine 2,994,684
White Russia
excluding Bialystok 446,484


Total over 11,000,000



What are some opinions on this?

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:20 pm)

15. How many Jews were in areas that came to be controlled by the Germans before the war?

It all depends which statistician one believes!

McVay misquoted the Wannsee Report slightly when he mentioned an estimated 11 million Jews in German controlled areas. Also the Wannsee people did not give a source, so I assume that they used some older census numbers.

Sanning comes up with between 4 and 5 million Jews living in areas while under German control..

The number of Jewish survivors in 1945 is estimated at at least 3.4 million.

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Postby trtsk » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:25 pm)

Sailor wrote:
15. How many Jews were in areas that came to be controlled by the Germans before the war?

It all depends which statistician one believes!

McVay misquoted the Wannsee Report slightly when he mentioned an estimated 11 million Jews in German controlled areas. Also the Wannsee people did not give a source, so I assume that they used some older census numbers.


What did McVay misquote? The source for the Wannsee numbers is Eichmann who occupying the Jewish desk in the SD had to be aware of all of these figures.

Sanning comes up with between 4 and 5 million Jews living in areas while under German control.


That seems remarkably low to me considering that just between Poland the Russia, you had 5 million Jews right there. Most Jews in Russia were concentrated to the westermost part of the country and had been for two centuries.

Plus there was an absolutely enormous Jewish population in the Northern African territories which were under control of the pro-Nazi Vichy government. Even after the war and Israel's declaration of statehood there were half a million Jews in Morocco along. The number has falled to about ten percent of that as of last year.

Morocco had and still has the largest Sephardi population although Salonika in Greece had an even higher Sephardi population before then. Which supports the idea that even more Jews were under Nazi or at least Axis control in January 1942.

And there were all those Jews trying to get to Palestine stuck in Turkey which was being torn between the Allies and the Axis. If Rommel had won at Al-Alamaein then the Zionist Jews in Palestine would have also fallen under Axis control. At this point Rommel was still at war in Africa and he was winning.

So I think Sanning is wrong. His book is a rarity in libraries but I see one in the University of Miami library and I have a friend whose wife goes to night school there. She can get a copy for me and I can look at it.

The number of Jewish survivors in 1945 is estimated at at least 3.4 million.


If the Wannsee figure is correct minus the 700,000 in North Africa then you have 10.3 million - 3.4 million. That equals 6.9 million. If a million Russian Jews were evacuated east after the first wave of immigration then you still have between five and six million dead Jews.

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Postby J William » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:56 pm)

Plus there was an absolutely enormous Jewish population in the Northern African territories which were under control of the pro-Nazi Vichy government. Even after the war and Israel's declaration of statehood there were half a million Jews in Morocco along. The number has falled to about ten percent of that as of last year.


It is unproductive to talk about numbers of Jews as it all depends on the definition of a Jew, which demographer is quoted and so forth. An example is The World Almanac of 1942. Page 594 shows a list of the Jews of the world by country. Who knows if it is accurate. The total of Jews in French Morocco and Spanish Morocco was 161,312 and 12,918 in 1938.

However Algeria which was also under French control had 110,127 Jews.
The Soviet Union is listed as having a population of 3,020,141 Jews.

The figure of Jewish population at the end of WW2 mostly quoted is about 12 million.

The 1997 World Almanac lists approximately 14 million Jews worldwide in 1996. That would mean that the Jewish population increased by 2 million in 47 years for an annual growth rate of approximately four tenths of one percent (0.4%).

During the early 1980s while driving home from a NYC airport I heard a program on one of the Jewish stations. The speaker on the talk show was lamenting the loss of Jews through assimulation and intermarriage. The quote was that if there were no assimulation the Jewish population of the USA would be 12 million rather than the 6 million listed in Jewish statistics. This is a case of another missing six million but I doubt if anyone is saying they were exterminated. What does this prove? Nothing except that trying to pin down actual numbers of Jews is not a productive exercise.

The following is to just show how tenuous population arguments can be.
Back to the 14 million Jews in 1996. For an unproductive exercise let us add in the six million Jews assimulated in the USA and not included in the 14 million worldwide equaling 20 million Jews worldwide in 1996. I won't even try to factor in the assimulation rates for the rest of the world since 1945, not even Madam Albright. Now if I take the 0.4% increase per year noted above ( a false premise by the way) and apply it to the 18 million Jews supposedly wordwide in 1938 I come up with a world total of about 22 million Jews . Maybe I should factor in the Jewish assimulation for the rest of the world and I can facetiously "prove" that there were very few Jews disappearing during WW2.

So it all goes back to documentary and forensic evidence and a modus operandi that is physically possible. I, for one, don't know what actually happened and will keep an open mind until the hard proof comes in, if ever.

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Postby Secret Anne X » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:04 pm)

The quote was that if there were no assimulation the Jewish population of the USA would be 12 million rather than the 6 million listed in Jewish statistics. This is a case of another missing six million but I doubt if anyone is saying they were exterminated.


Hi,

That's true and also untrue. I know that Netanyahu has said on several occasions in recent years that the Jewish people have "lost" as many people as in the Holocaust.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Dec 05, 2003 11:23 am)

trtsk wrote: What did McVay misquote? The source for the Wannsee numbers is Eichmann who occupying the Jewish desk in the SD had to be aware of all of these figures.

"Europe" and "German controlled areas" were not the same.

That seems remarkably low to me considering that just between Poland the Russia, you had 5 million Jews right there. Most Jews in Russia were concentrated to the westermost part of the country and had been for two centuries.

Yes, it iseems to be very low.

Sanning assumed, that a large percentage of Jews in the Eastern part of Poland and the Western part of the Soviet Union left with the Red Army (scorched earth warfare) before the Germans arrived. He based this mostly on Jewish sources.

The German edition of his book can be downloaded from the net:
Die Auflösung des osteuropäischen Judentums
http://vho.org/D/da/index.html

The numbers should be compared with the studies by other statisticians and historians, and the Korherr report, the official SS study for the time beginning 1943.

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Postby J William » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:45 am)

The item on the half-million Jews in Morocco after the end of WW2 started me searching a little. Consider these items pulled off the internet.


From theWilhelm Tell site.
The Jewish world population
Somebody unacquainted with the difficulties of the problem might assume that the real number of Jewish victims can be easily calculated by comparing pre-war and post-war population statistics, but this is not the case, for dependable statistics simply do not exist. To start with, the number of Jewish victims naturally depends on the definition of the word "Jewish", and there is no generally recognized such definition. Are the Jews are race, a nation or a religion? All three answers are partially true, but only partially. Can a person who was born into a Jewish familiy still be considered to be a Jew even if he has totally renounced the Jewish religion and tradition? I do not know the answer. Furthermore, regardless of how you define a Jew, the statistics about the Jewish world population are very contradictory and suspect from the very beginning because the figures are more often than not furnished by the Jewish organizations, which evidently have to respect the Holocaust dogma according to which roughy one third of the Jews were exterminated during World War Two.
The leading pre-war expert on Jewish population statistics, Arthur Ruppin, stated that there were 16,7 million Jews in the world in 1939 (13). For the immediate postwar years, the World Almanac gave the following figures: 15,19 million in 1945 and 15,7 million in the following four years, from 1946 to 1949. But it its 1949 issue, the World Almanac quoted the figures furnished by the American Jewish commitee according to which there had been 16,6 million Jews in 1939 and only 11,2 million in 1947 (14). On the other hand, in an article published in the Jewish-owned New York Times in early 1948, Hanson Baldwin, a military expert and specialist on Palestine, stated that there were between 15 and 18 million Jews worldwide (15). As you see, the Jewish world population statistics enable you as easily to prove that the Holocaust took place as they allows you to prove that it didn't; it just depends upon which statistics you prefer to believe. It's not in these statistics that we are going to find the answer to our question how many Jews really perished as a result of German policy.

Next item: Source World Jewis Congress 1998
The estimated strength of world Jewry today is little more than 13 million. We say “estimated” not just because of the traditional Jewish reluctance to count its people, but also because of the impossible task of reaching out to so many unaffiliated Jews in the Diaspora.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
United States 5,800,000
Israel 4,847,000
France 600,000
Russia 550,000
Ukraine 400,000
Canada 360,000
United Kingdom 300,000
Argentina 250,000
Brazil 130,000
South Africa 106,000
Australia 100,000
Hungary 80,000
Belarus 60,000
Germany 60,000
Mexico 40,700
Belgium 40,000
Italy 35,000
Uzbekistan 35,000
Venezuela 35,000
Uruguay 32,500
Azerbaijan 30,000
Moldova 30,000
Netherlands 30,000
Iran 25,000
Turkey 25,000
Sweden 18,000
Switzerland 18,000
Georgia 17,000
Chile 15,000
Kazakhstan 15,000
Latvia 15,000
Romania 14,000
Spain 14,000
Austria 10,000
Denmark 8,000
Poland 8,000
Morocco 7,500
Hawaii, USA 7,000
Panama 7,000
Czech Republic 6,000
India 6,000
Lithuania 6,000
Slovakia 6,000
Colombia 5,650
Greece 5,000
New Zealand 5,000
Kyrgyzstan 4,500
Bulgaria 3,000
Estonia 3,000
Peru 3,000
Puerto Rico 3,000
Costa Rica 2,500
Hong Kong 2,500
Yugoslavia 2,500
Croatia 2,000
Japan 2,000
Tunisia 2,000
Tajikistan 1,800
Norway 1,500
Guatemala 1,200
Finland 1,200
Paraguay 1,200
Turkmenistan 1,200
Cuba 1,000
Ecuador 1,000
Ireland 1,000
Monaco 1,000
Zimbabwe 925
Portugal 900
Yemen 800
Bosnia-Herzegovina 600
Gibraltar 600
Luxembourg 600
Ethiopia 500
Kenya 400
Netherlands Antilles 400
US Virgin Islands 400
Bolivia 380
Zaire 320
Jamaica 300
Singapore 300
Dominican Republic 250
Philippines 250
Syria 250
Thailand 250
Armenia 200
Bahamas 200
Suriname 200
South Korea 150
El Salvador 120
Iraq 120
Tahiti 120

End internet quotes.


These figures don't include the 6 million assimulated as mentioned in a previous post. Also the figure for Morocco in the above list is 7,500 but a perusal of the CIA's Counties of the World internet site show Morocco with a population of 31,000,000 of which 0.2% are Jewish. This comes out to 62,000 Jews resident in Morocco rather than 7,500, a substantial difference again showing the problem of knowing how many Jews were under Nazi control.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Dec 06, 2003 11:53 am)

There's no precise way to determine how many Jews were in Europe, and then, how many were actually under German administration.

Some points to consider:

- a good link to explore: http://www.codoh.com/found/fndstats.html

- vast numbers of Polish Jews were moved to in interior of the communist USSR...typically they are said to have killed by the Germans, not true according to the Encyclopaedia Judaica:

"The Jews were deported by the Germans to the area under Soviet control on the other side of the San River".

Therefore by 1941 the majority of former Polish Jews were living in what became Soviet Ukraine. David Bergelson, wrote in the Moscow Yiddish paper Ainikeit December 5, 1942, that:

"Thanks to the evacuation, the majority (80%) of the Jews in the Ukraine, White Russia, Lithuania and Latvia before the arrival of the Germans were rescued."

In other words the majority of Polish Jews were evacuated to the Soviet interior in 1941. After the war many settled in the Soviet Union, many flooded into DP camps in Germany. From there most went to Palestine (often forced to by Zionists), and many went to the US and other places where Jews are.

- in Butz's book ('Hoax of the 20th Century') reproduces part of a communication sent by Monsignor Di Meglio, a staff member of the Papal Nuncio in Berlin, to the Vatican, dated December 1942. In part it reads:

Since many fled, before the arrival of the German troops, from the Polish territories occupied by the Russians and from territories properly Russian, one estimates that presently, in the Reich and the occupied territories, including the Protectorate of Bohemia-Moravia, there are more than four million Jews, ie. one fourth of the entire world Jewish population.

As Butz remarks 'It is clear that he had no information on the existence of an extermination program even remotely resembling the one that was then taking shape in Allied propaganda and was being related to the Vatican by various Allied diplomats and Jewish organisations.'

- a common tactic is for the holocaust Industry to refer to the alleged numbers of Jews in Europe as indicated in the alleged notes of the Wannsee Conference. These number are so off base that even prominient Jews have dismissed them. (according to Yehuda Bauer there were only 9 million Jews in ALL of Europe...A HISTORY OF THE HOLOCAUST by Yehuda Bauer. New York: Franklin Watts, 1982, 398pp, $15.95, ISBN 0-531-098621)
Wannsee indicates 11,000,000 Jews in Europe (ex.: 700,000 in France...which is patently absurd), therefore leading some to the conclusion that the minutes of that Wannsee meeting were tampered with.

- noted British journalist Douglas Reed estimated that the number of the victims of the so called 'holocaust' did not exceed 300,000 or 400,000 -- the range of natural growth of the Jewish population over a period of seven or eight years. He revealed that the number of Jews in the world after the war of 1939-1945 was the same as it had been before the war
http://abbc.com/revisionism/english/heikal.htm

Swiss Revisionist Jurgen Graf makes this comparison, rather like:
'Before the Algerian uprising against the French, there were ca. 1,000,000 Frenchmen in Algeria, when the dust settled there were mere thousands. Does that mean they were murdered?'

Statistical population data depends somewhat on ‘when’ before WW II. There is census data for the different areas available for 1933 and before. Of interest to Revisionists is the Jewish population at the beginning of the war in 1939, and finally how many Jews lived in German occupied areas in the beginning of the occupation in 1941.

There were huge emmigrations of Jewish people from European countries mainly to the Americas and Palestine between 1933 and 1941.
Further large population shifts occurred between 1939 and 1941 from Eastern European countries, especially from Eastern Poland, to the Soviet Union. Staticians talk about 2 Million Jews here.

Jewish population data before WW II can be found in:

‘Die europäischen Juden’ (The European Jews) (German) by Sanning
http://vho.org/D/DGG/Sanning28_1.html

and in ‘Der Korherr-Bericht’ (lange Fassung) (The Korherr-Report,long version).
http://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korh ... lang.shtml

also see:
‘Jewish population losses in the German sphere of influence during the World War II’ by Jürgen Graf:
http://www.ety.com/tell/books/jgjewstats/jgstattoc.htm
....according to Sanning there were no more than 3,5 million Jews in the German sphere of influence at the time of its biggest territorial extension.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 07, 2003 7:47 pm)

Regarding the numbers quoted in the Wannsee Protocol, we reproduce the following post, by Mr. Michael Mills, from the Third Reich Forum:

The statistics on the Jewish population of Europe included in the Wannsee Protocol are manifestly exaggerated; most historians concede that, and do not take them seriously.

It is quite easy to see where the exaggeration occurs; it is in the figures for the Soviet Union and Poland, which Pumpkin quite correctly notes make up the bulk of the alleged 11 million total. If we add up the figures for the different components of the Soviet Union and Poland, we get the following total:

Soviet Union 5.000 million
Generalgouvernement 2.284 million
Eastern Territories 0.420 million
Bialystok 0.400 million

TOTAL 8.104 million

Now, the 5.0 million given for the Soviet Union includes the Jewish populations of the territories annexed in 1939 from Poland, and in 1940 from the Baltic States and Romania. Since for the purposes of calculation we are considering only the Jews of the Soviet Union and Poland, we need to exclude the Jews of the Baltic States and the territories seized from Romania (Bessarabia and Bukovina); these totalled approximately 0.5 million (0.25 million for both areas).

Deducting 0.5 million from 8.1 million leaves 7.6 million. That figure may be compared with the true total for the Soviet Union and Poland.

According to the Soviet census of 1939, there were just over three million persons of Jewish nationality in the country at that date. However, it is known that the census was falsified to hide the massive population losses due to the famines and purges of the 1930s. It is not known how many Jews there really were, however defined, but we can adopt three million as a ball-park figure.

The last Polish pre-war census gave two different figures for the total number of Jews, 2.8 million by nationality (defined as speakers of the Jewish languages Yiddish and Hebrew) and 3.1 million by religion. Again, it is known that the Polish census was falsified in order to minimise the size of the dissident ethnic minorities (Ukrainians, Belorussians, Germans). Again, we can adopt three million as a ball-park figure.

Thus, we arrive at 6.0 million as the total for the Soviet Union and Poland. The derived total in the Wannsee Protocol of 7.6 million is therefore exaggerated by 1.6 million. Deducting 1.6 million from the alleged Europe-wide total of 11 million leaves 9.4 million.

Furthermore, the figures for France are also grossly exaggerated. The Wannsee Protocol gives the following total:

Occupied France 165,000
Unoccupied France 700,000

TOTAL 865,000

In fact, it is known that the toal number of Jews in France in 1940 was about 340,000, including French citizens and refugees from Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium, and resident aliens from a number of countries.

Accordingly, the Wannsee Protocol's figure for France is exaggerated by about 525,000. Deducting that number from our adjusted Europe-wide total of 9.7 million leaves a new adjusted total of 9.175 million.

However, that adjusted total is not an accurate guide to the number of Jews who might have perished at German hands, since it includes countries that were never occupied by Germany; they need to be deducted, as follows:

England 330,000
Ireland 4,000
Finland 2,300
Sweden 8,000
Portugal 3,000
Switzerland 18,000
Spain 6,000
Turkey 55,500

TOTAL 426,800

Deducting that total for unoccupied countries from the adjusted Europe-wide total of 9.175 million leaves 8.748 million as the pool of potential victims.

A further adjustment needs to be made. The above total includes the entire Jewish population of the Soviet Union, but it is well-known that only the western part of that country was occupied by Germany, and furthermore a large number of Jews from the areas that were eventually occupied were evacuated by the Soviet authorities or fled before the Germans arrived.

The figure for Soviet Jews who never fell into German hands needs to be deducted. Some authorities such as Hilberg postulate that a good three million Jews survived in the Soviet Union, and that can be used as a reasoanble ball-park figure.

Deducting 3.0 million from 8.748 million leaves 5.748 million. That is the absolute maximum of the Jews who fell into German hands, and therefore could have been killed by them. However, there was a considerable number of Jewish survivors at the end of the war in the German-occupied territories. A by no means exhaustive calculation of the survivors includes:

France at least 260,000
Hungary at least 200,000
Romania at least 400,000

TOTAL at least 860,000

Deducting 860,000 from 5,748,000 leaves 4.888 million as the ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM number of Jews who could have perished at German hands. That figure would need to be adjusted downward to take account of Jewish survivors in other formerly occupied countries; for example, I have not included any figure for Polish Jews who survived, but their number is reliably estimated by historians as in the low hundreds of thousands, perhaps more than half a million.

In summary, I conclude that the total number of Jews who perished due to German actions could not be much more than four million. The canonical six million accordingly represents a 50% exaggeration.


http://www.thirdreichforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=33429

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:24 pm)

This is an interesting post.

I tried the number game using the Korherr report, and come up with something similar. I assumed, that by the end of 1942, beginning of 1943 all Polish and Russian Jews were in German hands, dead or alive.

Based on 300,000 survivors who lived in Israel in 1997 according to Amcha, Rudolf estimated the total Jewish survivors in 1945 at 3.4 Million.
"Wieviele Juden überlebten den Holocaust?" (German)
http://vho.org/VffG/1997/2/RudWie2.html

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Dec 08, 2003 1:20 am)

Hebden says that this Mr. Mills says:
In summary, I conclude that the total number of Jews who perished due to German actions could not be much more than four million. The canonical six million accordingly represents a 50% exaggeration.


This Mr. Mills cannot substantiate his 'four million' anymore than someone can substantiate the fabled '6,000,000'. We would really like to see him try.

Sorry, but evidence is required.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby trtsk » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:56 pm)

Sailor wrote:
trtsk wrote: What did McVay misquote? The source for the Wannsee numbers is Eichmann who occupying the Jewish desk in the SD had to be aware of all of these figures.

"Europe" and "German controlled areas" were not the same.


All I've ever seen is the Wannsee minutes which list German controlled area and areas not under German control. Ireland is on the list for example.

That seems remarkably low to me considering that just between Poland the Russia, you had 5 million Jews right there. Most Jews in Russia were concentrated to the westermost part of the country and had been for two centuries.

Yes, it iseems to be very low.

Sanning assumed, that a large percentage of Jews in the Eastern part of Poland and the Western part of the Soviet Union left with the Red Army (scorched earth warfare) before the Germans arrived. He based this mostly on Jewish sources.


I managed to get a copy of the book from my friend's wife, who works at a library in Miami. I read it, though not extremely carefully. What I found is two things. Sanning relies on Soviet propaganda about saved Jews. And Sanning uses not very established sources on Jewish population figures such as the Jewish Almanac. I don't know who would have better numbers but I think citing the World Book isn't the best historical method out there.

I also found in Sanning's book attacks against Zionism which seemed to have nothing to do with his central argument.

The German edition of his book can be downloaded from the net:
Die Auflösung des osteuropäischen Judentums
http://vho.org/D/da/index.html


I have the English version thanks.

The numbers should be compared with the studies by other statisticians and historians, and the Korherr report, the official SS study for the time beginning 1943.


I took a quick look at Korherr's report. The numbers don't seem all the different from Wannsee. In fact his number for Poland is higher than in Sanning.

Korherr speaks of resttlement. My German Eichmann memoir came today and I'll refer to part of it here.

Special handling consisted of shooting or hanging, depending on the relevant regulations of the Reichsfuhrer-SS.


Elsewhere on being asked to define Endlosung Eichmann says "Perhaps liquidation. But this decision had already been made since 1941 in the occupied zones in the East."

In other words like most Germans who know about the exterminations they were never referred to in official paperwork as such. The Wannsee minutes say Endlosung but they don't say Liquidierung.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Dec 08, 2003 8:56 pm)

trtsk says:
Korherr speaks of resttlement. My German Eichmann memoir came today and I'll refer to part of it here.

Quote:
Special handling consisted of shooting or hanging, depending on the relevant regulations of the Reichsfuhrer-SS.

However trtsk has ignored these threads:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=656
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=685
which reveal the complete lack of credibility in the Eichmann accounts. trtsk just keeps moving along as if nothing has been said about Eichmann, odd.

On to Korherr, from one of my previous posts:

One of the terms that is an alleged 'code word' for extermination is 'sonderbehandlung' (special treatment). We see here that former SS officer-statistician, Richard Korherr, refutes that assertion; as well as numbers alleged.
===========================
Korherr letter to Der Spiegel, n.28, 7/1977, p72-74:

The well-known, racially persecuted writer H.G. Adler, previously resident in Prague, now in London, wrote in the foreword to the second edition to his extraordinary book Theresienstadt 1941-1945 in 1960:
"It has definitely been determined that the designation of Dr. Korherr as SS-statistician...is not true, because he never belonged to the SS and has been rehabilitated insofar as his behaviour in the National Socialist years is concerned."

Unfortunately, Der Spiegel is publishing the claim of the English historian Irving that in the spring of 1942, at Himmler's order, I calculated the number of Jewish victims. In fact, these figures along with the text were delivered to me in completed form by the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) with the order that not one word or figure was to be changed.

The statement that I had claimed in this regard that more than a million Jews had died as a result of special treatment in the camps in German-occupied Poland and in the Warthegau is also incorrect. I have to protest against the word "died" in this context.

It was precisely the term "special treatment" (sonderbehandlung)that motivated me to inquire of the RSHA by telephone what this term meant. I received the answer that it referred to Jews who would be settled in the District of Lublin.

Dr. Richard Korherr
Braunschweig

Nr. 28, July 1977, p. 72-74, Der SPIEGEL, an article commenting on the controversy surrounding David Irving's book "Hitler's War" under the title : HITLER -- Kecke Revision.
Korherr's letter appears among a series of reactions ("Hitler gegen Irving") by people like Robert M. W. Kempner or the historians John Toland and Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm An English translation of the letter was presented during Udo Walendy's testimony at the Zündel trial 1988.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

trtsk
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Postby trtsk » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:04 am)

Korherr's letter contradicts his report. Furthermore, he doesn't say anywhere in the letter you quote that the Jews he's speaking of didn't die. He's saying that he wanted to check if "die" was the word to be used.

Eichmann is already on record here as defining Sonderhandlung as killing.

Why is no one addressing Eichmann's damning statements?

Tom

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:52 am)

Eichmann has been sliced & diced here:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=656
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=685
which you seem to now avoid, I suggest you post to those threads on Eichmann if you like.

Sorry, Korherr clearly refutes the 'special action' canard. Please read his letter again.

There are specific threads at this Forum on 'sonderbehandlung' / special action, check them out. Don't be shy, debate head on, post to specific threads rather than mixing your the topics.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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