Elie Wiesel's sisters

[Trude]

Several months ago, I read a forum post that talked about a friend of one of Elie Wiesel's sisters revealing to a group of friends how she laughs at Elie's outrageous stories (lies) and what he's putting over on the world. I think I read it here, but it could easily have been somewhere else.

I have searched for something like that here but didn't find it. Someone on this forum might know how to do a better search. Or has anyone else read that story anywhere, or know anything about it.

I would also like to know news about Elie Wiesel's two older sisters, Hilda and Beatrice. The latter lives (lived?) in Montreal, Canada. I have searched the Internet, but the only thing mentioned is that they were interned at Auschwitz and were reunited with Elie in France after the war, then emigrated to the U.S. Not another word on them can be found, no pictures, either, of more recent venue.

I appreciate any assistance others can offer.

[Eric Hunt]

They both "survived" Dachau, a little known fact, if at all known.

[Trude]

Hey thanks! I obviously didn't check the records thoroughly enough. Which survivor tracing organization did this come from?

So they were transferred to Dachau from Auschwitz on Aug. 1, 1944. If they arrived at Aus. in June, they were probably in quarantine until then. Kaufering was built after 1943 for war production factories. Wikipedia says, "The larger of Kaufering's 11 camps each contained several thousand prisoners, the vast majority of whom were Jews." But this was toward the end.

These two ladies obviously don't want to talk about the "horrors" they experienced there. Was Elie there too? Is it possible that ... well, I'm not going to speculate.

What else can be dug up about the sisters?

[Mojo]

I bet they have inmate tattoos.

[joachim neander]

@ Mojo:
The vast majority of Hungarian Jews who were transferred from Auschwitz to camps in the interior of the Reich in the summer of 1944 had been "transit Jews" at Auschwitz: taken in, but not registered as inmates (and therefore not assigned a prisoner number that had to be tattooed on them), and awaiting their transfer.

[Trude]

@ Mojo:
The vast majority of Hungarian Jews who were transferred from Auschwitz to camps in the interior of the Reich in the summer of 1944 had been "transit Jews" at Auschwitz: taken in, but not registered as inmates (and therefore not assigned a prisoner number that had to be tattooed on them), and awaiting their transfer.

Since there is no record of the Wiesel sisters at Auschwitz, but they allegedly arrived at Kaufering in Aug. 1944 from Auschwitz (and you suggest they had no registration number and therefore no tattoo) --- and since there is no record of Elie Wiesel or his father at Auschwitz either, perhaps he was also sent elsewhere after his quarantine, with no registration number and no tattoo ... which is why he doesn't have one and has always refused to show his arm to anyone.

But if that were the case, why does he insist he does have one, and that it is A7713, when in fact that cannot be his number. Could it be because he started doing that back before he became so famous and now he has to continue with it? Do these people love to live dangerously? Or do they just love to fool the public? What do you think, Joachim Neander?

Would you put Elie Wiesel in the same category as Irene Zisblatt as regards writing fantasies about their Auschwitz experience, including their imaginary tattoos?

[Mojo]

@ Mojo:
The vast majority of Hungarian Jews who were transferred from Auschwitz to camps in the interior of the Reich in the summer of 1944 had been "transit Jews" at Auschwitz: taken in, but not registered as inmates (and therefore not assigned a prisoner number that had to be tattooed on them), and awaiting their transfer.

So Auschwitz was a transit camp and a death camp?

[joachim neander]

@ Trude:

Are you sure that there is no record of the Wiesel sisters at Auschwitz? A lot of unregistered transit Jews appear, e.g., in the stool sample lists. Think of Mrs. Zisblatt.

With Elie(zer; or Lazar - which is the same name) Wiesel, I do not know. The last unregistered transit Jews from the Hungarian action were shipped out from Auschwitz at the turn of October 1944. The no. 7713 was edited on May 24, 1944, according to D. Czech, Auschwitz Chronicle.
As Elie Wiesel was at Auschwitz until the evacuation of the camp in mid-January 1945, he cannot have been a transit Jew, he must have been registered, and that means he must have had his prisoner no. tattooed.

Re. his camp memoirs: As an historian, I analyze all testimonies - not only those from camp survivors - on four levels, according to the scheme developed in the theory of communication:
1) What does the author say are "facts"?
2) What does the author say about himself?
3) How does the author see himself in relation to the addressee?
4) What does the author want that the addressee shall do?
But I confess that I haven't yet read a single line of Wiesel's works, and I do not intend to do so. It is just beyond my scope of interest. So I cannot tell anything about his writings.

[Lohengrin]

Mojo: So Auschwitz was a transit camp and a death camp?

No: Auschwitz was a transit camp and a labor camp.

[Mojo]

Mojo: So Auschwitz was a transit camp and a death camp?

No: Auschwitz was a transit camp and a labor camp.

It's my belief Auschwitz was a transit and labor camp, mainly the latter. I was hoping Joachim would reply. He writes about the weasel and others being "transferred", yet doesn't want to read Elie's published comments about given a choice to stay and wait for the Soviets, or return to Germany with their captors?

The exterminationists can't have it both ways.

[Trude]

@ Trude:

Re. his camp memoirs: As an historian, I analyze all testimonies - not only those from camp survivors - on four levels, according to the scheme developed in the theory of communication:
1) What does the author say are "facts"?
2) What does the author say about himself?
3) How does the author see himself in relation to the addressee?
4) What does the author want that the addressee shall do?
But I confess that I haven't yet read a single line of Wiesel's works, and I do not intend to do so. It is just beyond my scope of interest. So I cannot tell anything about his writings.

I understand your numbers 1 and 2, but 3 and 4 are quite unclear to me. Can you be more definite about what you mean, please? Since you haven't read Wiesel's Night, or any of his other books, you can use Zisblatt's The Fifth Diamond as an example, if need be. We have both read that. Thanks.

[joachim neander]

Mojo: So Auschwitz was a transit camp and a death camp?

No: Auschwitz was a transit camp and a labor camp.

It's my belief Auschwitz was a transit and labor camp, mainly the latter. I was hoping Joachim would reply. He writes about the weasel and others being "transferred", yet doesn't want to read Elie's published comments about given a choice to stay and wait for the Soviets, or return to Germany with their captors?
The exterminationists can't have it both ways.

As I did not read Wiesel's books I cannot say what his reasons were, and if he indeed was given a choice. I can only infer from Gandersheim, Langenstein and the Mittelbau camps which I studied in great detail, and for which I made many interviews with survivors in 1992/93 (BTW, non of them Jewish, if this helps you.) I often heard that, on the eve of the evacuation, some SS man told the sick that those who feel fit for a march of about 20 kilometers should participate in the evacuation, i.e. march together with the SS to another camp, and that the others would be left.

Those who survived were always among those who participated in the evacuation. More than once I heard: "You know, the safest thing was always to be with the crowd." At many of these camps, those left were killed afterward. This did happen, to some extent, also at Auschwitz. At Gandersheim, those who declared themselves unfit for marching were told that they were brought to a hospital in town, but they were all killed (40 men) in a wood on the road. As this did not remain unnoticed by the locals, it is well documented. So, at any rate, it was a wise decision to go with the SS on evacuation and not to stay in the camp.

[joachim neander]

I understand your numbers 1 and 2, but 3 and 4 are quite unclear to me. Can you be more definite about what you mean, please? Since you haven't read Wiesel's Night, or any of his other books, you can use Zisblatt's The Fifth Diamond as an example, if need be. We have both read that. Thanks.

ad 3) I would say she sees herself mainly as a "teacher" of the kids who she lectures. Her status as victims gives her the necessary authority.
ad 4) The kids shall feel empathy with her and all Holocaust victims as well as contempt for and with the perpetrators. I do not see a call for action, nor for transfer these feelings to a situation in which the kids might be, e.g. mobbing against a minority in school, or a behavior expressing racial prejudices.

[SevenUp]

Those who survived were always among those who participated in the evacuation.

What an idiotic remark. The three most famous holohoax survivors are Elie Wiesel, Otto Frank, and Primo Levi. All were in Auschwitz hospitals when the Russian army approached. Wiesel left with the Nazis and survived, Frank and Levi stayed and survived.

As this did not remain unnoticed by the locals, it is well documented. So, at any rate, it was a wise decision to go with the SS on evacuation and not to stay in the camp.

Since it was 'noticed' by the locals, I suppose the the grave has been identified and excavated? Or not?

[SevenUp]

ad 4) The kids shall feel empathy with her and all Holocaust victims as well as contempt for and with the perpetrators. I do not see a call for action, nor for transfer these feelings to a situation in which the kids might be, e.g. mobbing against a minority in school, or a behavior expressing racial prejudices.

Time to wake up. The purpose of the holohoax lies is to generate support the state of Israel while it ethnically cleanses Palestine.