Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

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Eric Hunt
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Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Eric Hunt » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:05 pm)

From his memoirs, All Rivers Run to the Sea.

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Alleged Auschwitz Tattoos
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Last edited by Eric Hunt on Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:11 pm)

Nice work, Eric. I don't think that's going to turn out to be a tattoo. Look at the shadow to the right and slightly higher than the one you've pointed out -- it has some dark lines in it too, which appear to be just the photographic processing of dark values.

It's also my understanding that in 1944 tattoos were all put on the outside of the left forearm, easy to see. Some people think they were on the inside part of the arm. The authorities certainly didn't put them any which way they felt like; there had to have been a clear-cut procedure.

What I do want to know is the date of this picture. He's already going bald. And give us more information about it, if you can. Thanks.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:44 pm)

I couldn't make out even one number. If there are photos in books like that, there must be high quality photos somewhere else.

Another thing that strikes me, is that he has the body of an oldish 65 year old man. Decrepit.

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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby HelenChicago » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:31 pm)

It looks to me like a shadow cast by one of the veins in his arm. Veins don't usually cast shadows, of course, but in this case the sun seems to have caught one at just the right angle. If Weisel had a tattoo, surely a decent photograph of it would have appeared somewhere at some time. It's his meal-ticket after all; he wouldn't have kept it hidden for over half a century.

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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Cloud » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:48 pm)

I wonder why this issue is only coming up now and was not resolved decades ago. How could he have gotten this far without anyone (ie, Oprah, BU students & faculty, politicians, etc.) asking to see it?

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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Eric Hunt » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:29 pm)

It's pretty easy to get away with it when he only wears suits, even in the summer in Israel.
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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:55 pm)

Cloud wrote:I wonder why this issue is only coming up now and was not resolved decades ago. How could he have gotten this far without anyone (ie, Oprah, BU students & faculty, politicians, etc.) asking to see it?


He has been asked to show his tattoo on several occasions, at least, and he declined. Miklos Grüner asked to see it when they met in Sweden after the Nobel Prize award ceremony in 1986 or so; Wiesel said he didn't like to exhibit his body. That has been accepted by EVERYONE, young and old, as legitimate. It shows how cowed the entire world is by the legend built up about this Zionist liar from Romania (but who may be protected by the Mossad :-)).
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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:57 pm)

Repeat: what is the date of this picture? Does anyone know?
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Balsamo » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:54 pm)

Funny to think that Dayan was maybe (probably) working with SKORZENY at that time...
those pictures were taken right after the war (as stated under the fisrt picture)

As for the date, the picture looks like a visit of the front. in 1948-49, Dayan was the commander of the Jordan Valley...Wiesel does not look good...1948 could be an option...
But one should check with Wiesel bio...Bar On is not known to be Dayan chief of staff in 48...Wiki for what it's worth mention becoming as the chief of Staff in 1958, Dayan was himself held this position from 53 to 58...

But if Wiesel's book "Day" is at least a kind of Bio, i would still say around 1948...

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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:17 pm)

Balsamo wrote:Funny to think that Dayan was maybe (probably) working with SKORZENY at that time...
those pictures were taken right after the war (as stated under the fisrt picture)

As for the date, the picture looks like a visit of the front. in 1948-49, Dayan was the commander of the Jordan Valley...Wiesel does not look good...1948 could be an option...
But one should check with Wiesel bio...Bar On is not known to be Dayan chief of staff in 48...Wiki for what it's worth mention becoming as the chief of Staff in 1958, Dayan was himself held this position from 53 to 58...

But if Wiesel's book "Day" is at least a kind of Bio, i would still say around 1948...

It cannot be '48. Wiesel is too old. I'll go with Wiki and say it's after 1958. But I want to know for sure.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:41 pm)

Okay ... Eric! You added two "alleged" tattoos, on the inner arms.

The number A-22969 -- According to the USHMM website, the sequences of numbers introduced in mid-May 1944 were prefaced by the letter A for women and B for men, and began with “1” and ended at “20,000” for men and “30,000” for women. As usual, the USHMM doesn't seem to know what it's talking about, since Gruner and the Wiesels had a number prefaced with A.

Here is a supposedly authentic tattoo on a young woman, Ebi Gabor: http://hopelutheranchurch.net/social.php
But we can't tell where on the arm it is. Didn't EW specify in Night that his tattoo was put on the outside of the arm?
Last edited by Carolyn Yeager on Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour

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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:22 pm)

From USHMM:
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10007056

When the metal stamp method proved impractical, a single-needle device was introduced, which pierced the outlines of the serial-number digits onto the skin. The site of the tattoo was changed [me: from the chest] to the outer side of the left forearm. However, prisoners from several transports in 1943 had their numbers tattooed on the inner side of their left upper forearms. Tattooing was generally performed during registration when each prisoner was assigned a camp serial number.

[...]

In the spring of 1943, the SS authorities throughout the entire Auschwitz complex adopted the practice of tattooing almost all previously registered and newly arrived prisoners, including female prisoners. Exceptions to this practice were prisoners of German nationality and “reeducation prisoners,” who were held in a separate compound.

[...]

Each new series of numbers introduced at Auschwitz began with “1.” Some Jewish prisoners (but not all) had a triangle tattooed beneath their serial number. [me: really. Why? Seems too quixotic.]
In order to avoid the assignment of excessively high numbers from the general series to the large number of Hungarian Jews arriving in 1944, the SS authorities introduced new sequences of numbers in mid-May 1944. This series, prefaced by the letter A, began with “1” and ended at “20,000.” Once the number 20,000 was reached, a new series beginning with “B” series was introduced. Some 15,000 men received “B” series tattoos. For an unknown reason, the “A” series for women did not stop at 20,000 and continued to 30,000.


So, they say the tattoos were on the outside of the left forearm. But the A and B series is certainly not clear.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour

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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:55 pm)

Carolyn Yeager wrote:
Balsamo wrote:Funny to think that Dayan was maybe (probably) working with SKORZENY at that time...
those pictures were taken right after the war (as stated under the fisrt picture)

As for the date, the picture looks like a visit of the front. in 1948-49, Dayan was the commander of the Jordan Valley...Wiesel does not look good...1948 could be an option...
But one should check with Wiesel bio...Bar On is not known to be Dayan chief of staff in 48...Wiki for what it's worth mention becoming as the chief of Staff in 1958, Dayan was himself held this position from 53 to 58...

But if Wiesel's book "Day" is at least a kind of Bio, i would still say around 1948...

It cannot be '48. Wiesel is too old. I'll go with Wiki and say it's after 1958. But I want to know for sure.


It must be after the 1967 war and Elie is around 40 years old.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour

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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Ilikerealhistory » 9 years 4 months ago (Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:58 pm)

Eric Hunt wrote:From his memoirs, All Rivers Run to the Sea.

IMG_3855.JPG



Carolyn Yeager wrote:What I do want to know is the date of this picture. He's already going bald. And give us more information about it, if you can. Thanks.





The picture says: "Shortly after the war, ..." My guess would be the Sinai War in 1956. I doubt it would be later than the 1950's

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Re: Is this Elie Wiesel's Tattoo?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 4 months ago (Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:26 am)

More on the location of the tattoo, from Thomas Kues in a comment (#12) to the Welcome blog at Elie Wiesel Cons theWorld.
http://www.eliewieseltattoo.com/welcome-ew#comments

As for the tattoos, there is little reason to doubt that they were carried out. That the inmates were tattooed with their numbers is also supported by documents, such as a report from September 1944 concerning a prisoner escape, in which is mentioned as characteristics of the detainees that they have numbers tattooed on their left lower arms; see http://www.revblog.codoh.com/2010/07/th ... auschwitz/
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour


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