Chief Rabbi of Ireland tries to get h-myth going, in 1933!

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Ray Barren
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Re: Chief Rabbi of Ireland tries to get h-myth going, in 193

Postby Ray Barren » 9 years 1 day ago (Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:21 pm)

athenarena wrote:
Hector wrote:
The responsive German boycott of Jewish shops (in April) was to my knowledge the only measure against Jews at that stage. The National Socialists were still busy crushing the Communists.


I have to agree with that point above yours Ray Barren.

Ray Barren wrote:
Violence was expressed by SS and SA members against Jews after before and after Nazi rise to power. Dachau camp was established weeks before this letter was supposed to be written. There were laws passed stoping Jews from work in certain professional jobs before this letter. Those working in them were fired. Nazi boycotts of Jewish business before this letter. Much persecution. Jews were killed in the violence acts by Nazi followers. Not planned extermination but individual murder. The Rabbi is hearing scared but slight incorrect representations of 1933 Nazi Germany. Are all writings and letters and newscasts on 11 September event exact in correctness of detail as we see them a decade later?


Yes I know the SS and SA were going around beating up Jews and other "Non-Aryans". Heck Fianna Fail supporters did that to Cummann na nGaedhael (now Fianna Gael) when Fianna Fail was elected here in Ireland during the 1930s because they knew they could get away with it. Same mindframe here.

The only laws that really took away Jewish rights completely were the 1935 Nuremburg Laws which I know are not the ones you mentioned.

As for Dachau, set up in 22 March 1933, it was originally for political prisoners not Jewish prisoners at the time. There was much persecution but there also was much fleeing. Out of 500,000 maybe 1 percent of the German populations tens of thousands of those would flee in the coming months and years.


Hektor is mistaken in saying that Nazis didnt act until after Jewish boycott of Nazi goods. Athenarena you must understand that Nazi policy and actions always had relation to what historian Peter Longerich calls Judenpolitik. There was a focus against political opposition in early weeks but remember that Jewish socialists were attacked most intensely such as in Dachau where some Jews were murdered in early 1933. Here is link naming some names http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachauscr ... Life4.html

On laws look at 7 April Professional Civil Service bill which led to many dismissals and firings of Jewish judicial workers. Before this law in early March was passed some courts were invaded by Nazi police and party members and had Jewish judges and prosecutors thrown out of building.

Before Hektors ;Jewish declaration of war' there was the wave of violence in many area of Germany starting in early March. Nazis would protest and decorate in front of Jewish business, prevent Germans from entering stores, which led to fights and attacks on Jewish owners and shoppers. This was local boycotts planned by Nazi groups. Goering and regional Nazi leaders applauded these measures and wanted to prevent police interference. Hitler said to stop these fights in mid-March but not all did. On 25 March SA men humiliated and beat male Jews in Wurttemberg synagogue with couple dead from abuse. I mentioned some other points.

Anti Jewish acts got worse with time but they started bad as well.
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Re: Chief Rabbi of Ireland tries to get h-myth going, in 193

Postby Hektor » 9 years 1 day ago (Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:10 pm)

athenarena wrote:....
Hector wrote:
It looks pretty much like a 33 to me


That is the problem with such bad writing, it is interpetative. But I see 39 there. I enlarged it three times and opened it with Microsoft Photo Editor to be 100 percent sure before I posted.....
It's rather a problem of bad jpegs. On the first picture it indeed looks more like a 39. But Look at the picture that I posted, it 's more clear and it's a 33.

Ray Barren wrote:....Hektor is mistaken in saying that Nazis didnt act until after Jewish boycott of Nazi goods. Athenarena you must understand that Nazi policy and actions always had relation to what historian Peter Longerich calls Judenpolitik. There was a focus against political opposition in early weeks but remember that Jewish socialists were attacked most intensely such as in Dachau where some Jews were murdered in early 1933. Here is link naming some names http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachauscr ... Life4.html
That's right, those targeted were so for mainly political reasons, for them being Marxist activist working on Germanies demise. I recommend you read the text under the link you posted more thoroughly. The maltreatment of Jewish prisoners wasn't condoned by the leadership.

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Re: Chief Rabbi of Ireland tries to get h-myth going, in 193

Postby Ray Barren » 9 years 1 day ago (Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:37 pm)

Hektor wrote:
athenarena wrote:....
Hector wrote:
It looks pretty much like a 33 to me


That is the problem with such bad writing, it is interpetative. But I see 39 there. I enlarged it three times and opened it with Microsoft Photo Editor to be 100 percent sure before I posted.....
It's rather a problem of bad jpegs. On the first picture it indeed looks more like a 39. But Look at the picture that I posted, it 's more clear and it's a 33.


I agree with Hektor that it is 1933.

Ray Barren wrote:....Hektor is mistaken in saying that Nazis didnt act until after Jewish boycott of Nazi goods. Athenarena you must understand that Nazi policy and actions always had relation to what historian Peter Longerich calls Judenpolitik. There was a focus against political opposition in early weeks but remember that Jewish socialists were attacked most intensely such as in Dachau where some Jews were murdered in early 1933. Here is link naming some names http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachauscr ... Life4.html
That's right, those targeted were so for mainly political reasons, for them being Marxist activist working on Germanies demise. I recommend you read the text under the link you posted more thoroughly. The maltreatment of Jewish prisoners wasn't condoned by the leadership.


There were political reasons and Jewish reasons. Work against political parties does not explain the anti Jewish violence that happened at Jewish business across Germany. Maltreatment was semi curtailed by Hitler as I explained if you would have read my post instead of bolding parts related to policy and ignoring higher intensity of attacks against Jewish members of socialist parties then non Jews.
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Re: Chief Rabbi of Ireland tries to get h-myth going, in 193

Postby Hektor » 9 years 1 day ago (Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:48 pm)

Ray Barren wrote:...
There were political reasons and Jewish reasons. Work against political parties does not explain the anti Jewish violence that happened at Jewish business across Germany. Maltreatment was semi curtailed by Hitler as I explained if you would have read my post instead of bolding parts related to policy and ignoring higher intensity of attacks against Jewish members of socialist parties then non Jews.

I take the educated guess that some of the rage stemmed from private quarrels. The claimed higher intensity seems to be hearsay or that's the impression your linked text gives. So you still need to come up with an example of a Jew being persecuted, imprisoned, beaten etc. just for being Jewish.

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Re: Chief Rabbi of Ireland tries to get h-myth going, in 193

Postby athenarena » 9 years 1 day ago (Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:53 pm)

Ray Barren wrote:
Hektor is mistaken in saying that Nazis didnt act until after Jewish boycott of Nazi goods. Athenarena you must understand that Nazi policy and actions always had relation to what historian Peter Longerich calls Judenpolitik. There was a focus against political opposition in early weeks but remember that Jewish socialists were attacked most intensely such as in Dachau where some Jews were murdered in early 1933. Here is link naming some names http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachauscr ... Life4.html

On laws look at 7 April Professional Civil Service bill which led to many dismissals and firings of Jewish judicial workers. Before this law in early March was passed some courts were invaded by Nazi police and party members and had Jewish judges and prosecutors thrown out of building.

Before Hektors ;Jewish declaration of war' there was the wave of violence in many area of Germany starting in early March. Nazis would protest and decorate in front of Jewish business, prevent Germans from entering stores, which led to fights and attacks on Jewish owners and shoppers. This was local boycotts planned by Nazi groups. Goering and regional Nazi leaders applauded these measures and wanted to prevent police interference. Hitler said to stop these fights in mid-March but not all did. On 25 March SA men humiliated and beat male Jews in Wurttemberg synagogue with couple dead from abuse. I mentioned some other points.

Anti Jewish acts got worse with time but they started bad as well.


I have not touched Nazi policy since December 2009. I am surprising myself in how much I remember. *seriously hoping Hitler comes up on her Leaving Cert*

As for the other laws, I am sorry I was not clearer. What I meant to say was that the only major anti-Jewish laws that I was aware of was the Nuremburg Laws of 1935 brought into place after the Nuremburg Rally of 1935 about ethnicity and being Aryan. I cannot remember exactly what the phrasing one, my apologies.

Wave of violence? Always happens when one knows that the party in power will do nothing about it. I gave my Irish example (I am Irish by the way. It explains why I reference the history so much). These I was generally aware of Ray Barren but not in any form of specifics and individual attacks.

Thank you for your points Ray Barren,
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Re: Chief Rabbi of Ireland tries to get h-myth going, in 193

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 8 years 11 months ago (Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:18 pm)

Ray Barren wrote, with my addition of bold text:
The world wasnt doing anything about it. Maybe you misread the letter. The letter just says that if a big pogrom would happen then the world might wake up. Not that the events are worse than a 5000 killed pogrom as you say but that they are more organized. The letter says many suicides are going on from Jews. Other Holocaust scholars have found increase in Jewish suicide rates as result of the Nazi early measures in 1933 with couple hundred killing selves around and before this letter, to put it in context.

If the Irish Rabbi mentions a person wishing an open pogram of 5,000 killed would happen just so the world would wake up, doesn't that mean that the subtle, methodical killing is much worse? I mean to wish 5,000 would be killed in one swoop so as to alert the world of some persecution, of some suicides doesn't make sense does it? It defeats the purpose.

Clearly the implication (contrary to Ray Barren's reasoning) was that something much bigger was going on.

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Re: Chief Rabbi of Ireland tries to get h-myth going, in 193

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 11 months ago (Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:00 am)

Atharena,

When your Leaving Cert exam comes round, make sure you spell Nuremberg correctly. ;)

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Re: Chief Rabbi of Ireland tries to get h-myth going, in 193

Postby athenarena » 8 years 11 months ago (Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:56 am)

Kingfisher wrote:
When your Leaving Cert exam comes round, make sure you spell Nuremberg correctly.


*blushes* Alright, I am mortified now. I phonetically spelt it the way I sounded it. I am sorry about that. However, something tells me I would get away it in the Leaving Cert out of pity for what the course puts me through.

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