Mum wrote:I do not understand why you guys think that so many people have got together and created, "out of the blue".. a big bullshit story about Nazis killing Jews, gassing Jews, shooting, raping.. ect. . People get crazy in a war. They turn into the animals that we are,
People do get crazy in a war, including the prisoners. In times of stress, people tend to behave differently. Poor people steal, angry people commit violent acts, prisoners lie for pity.
No one was gassed. There's simply no evidence of this claim.
Shootings occur during a war. This is inevitable. But the amount of shootings claimed are not backed up by physical evidence. There are no mass graves full of corpses with bullets in them, and in turn the amount of casings found doesn't prove the amount of corpses claimed. More importantly, it in no way proves an extermination program or systematic elimination of any one group. There was a war going on, bullets tend to be found on the occupied territories. Of course, partisans were shot as they were active participants in war. Criminals were also shot. Remember the rapes you mentioned? Jewish prisoners were raping their own people within the camps. Not all the prisoners could earn the necessary units to purchase services from the brothel, so they resorted to crime. When they were caught, they were subsequently dealt with. It's important to note that Jews were not the only people getting raped. German civilian women were raped by opposing forces as well.
The point of this is you acknowledge behavior during war time being animalistic, but you seem to only feel a sense of sympathy for one group involved.
Mum wrote: Why would so many say that there were gas chambers killing Jews
One can easily say the prisoners started such rumors to get some kind of closure to their missing friends and family. It's not as if the prisoners were informed of their fellow prisoner's movements or updated on their destinations. When the Allies liberated the camps, they were met by thousands of prisoners who had recently been put through tremendous conditions as a result of Allied bombing raids which cut off medical supplies and basic necessities. The prisoners instantly regaled the liberating troops with stories about things they never actually witnessed. It's the rumor mill on a extremist level. Are you familiar with the child's game of 'Telephone', where one child says something in secret to another, and that child tells the same to the next, and so on? By the end, the original message is lost, but in the case of the Jews, the originators of the rumors were relocated in an effort to emigrate them or moved to where their labor was needed for the German war effort.
I'm sure you recall the stories of shrunken heads, human skin lampshades, sex machines, and the like. All turned out to be products created to meet the claims. The claims were not based on the products. These are small examples of propaganda which eventually led to larger examples such as gas chambers, extermination programs, and mass graves combined with open air pyres burning Jews night and day.
The reality of war is the dead. However, the connections made between the dead and the methods claimed to have caused their deaths are based on theory or nothing at all.
Mum wrote: and i have tried with all of my heart to understand your views.
This isn't about understanding "our" views. This is about understanding fact and how something becomes fact... or doesn't.
It's important to realize there is very little empirical evidence to support the majority of the claims made by the Jews. Physical evidence should be the primary support, followed by documents, then witness testimony. Bells and whistles should be going off at the absence of the first two. When one thinks of the ease of claiming things without proof, a person should be able to consider the claims are false or motivated by ill will.
Mum wrote: Some things I can see are dodgy..thats for sure.
Indeed. However, I'm curious as to which things you consider dodgy and why.
More importantly, I'm trying to understand why you haven't progressed to understanding how the whole concept of the Holocaust™ is more of an impossibility. What causes a Believer to realize certain things are dodgy, but not others? Is it something like a lack of information? Fear of finding out you've been duped? Pride? Guilt?
Why would something like electrocution machines be dodgy, but not gas chambers?
Mum wrote: but denying the murders and gas chambers baffles me. I do believe that they were killing Jews like that.
What I can't understand is why people believe these chambers existed when the only evidence of such things is the claims of the prisoners. Have you ever attempted to use the logic necessary to make those chambers real to anything else? For instance, if you believe those chambers existed because someone told you they did (even though you've never seen them or witnessed what the prisoners claimed), could you apply that logic to any other situation? If I told you "Aliens swooped down and took the Jews", would you believe it for no other reason than because I told you it happened? Even though there is no physical evidence to support the claim? Or is it because most people fear the unknown and have to find a way to rationalize and put an end to their fears by filling in blanks with their own conclusions or ones given to them based on nothing?
The question of gas chambers and murders shouldn't lie with the deniers. If you believe they existed, then there should be little or no effort involved in proving them without using simple claims, but with actual evidence. So if you were asked to prove why you believe in gas chambers and mass murders, and had to leave out the rumor mill claims, could you prove they existed to anyone and everyone, including scientists?
In my experience, most Believers cannot, and when asked to, don't and won't.
Mum wrote: I think that every body caught up in that did a lot of crazy cruel shit. EVERYONE!
Quite possible, but the idea that something is possible doesn't make it an actual occurrence.
Mum wrote: I do get very frustrated when jazz denies the chambers
As we get frustrated when no one seems to be able to prove their existence beyond baseless claims.
Mum wrote: And i Know that she says they did autopsy's and couldn't find anyone who died from cyanide gas,,but families would call the government to see where their loved one is. they would of worked out a great ballpark of how many Jews were missing. no bodies. they didn't get sucked up by aliens..or did they.....
Public opinion is easily swayed. Most people are followers, destined to be led by their noses. Generally, all it takes is one motivated speaker or a few acts or tales of acts to create outrage and hatred.
It's my opinion the Holocaust™ was, what I will call, an opportunity.
Not for the Germans, but for post-war Jews.
As for the aliens, no one seriously claims Jews were snatched up by aliens. Guess why?
Because they can't prove it. However, you'll always find people who insist that's exactly what happened and they will believe such a thing as long as they have air in their lungs.
