Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
I've convinced my Mum to type what she thinks. Please reply to her
I do not understand why you guys think that so many people have got together and created, "out of the blue".. a big bullshit story about Nazis killing Jews, gassing Jews, shooting, raping.. ect. . People get crazy in a war. They turn into the animals that we are, Why would so many say that there were gas chambers killing Jews,and i have tried with all of my heart to understand your views. Some things I can see are dodgy..thats for sure. but denying the murders and gas chambers baffles me. I do believe that they were killing Jews like that. I think that every body caught up in that did a lot of crazy cruel shit. EVERYONE!
I do get very frustrated when jazz denies the chambers, And i Know that she says they did autopsy's and couldn't find anyone who died from cyanide gas,,but families would call the government to see where their loved one is. they would of worked out a great ballpark of how many Jews were missing. no bodies. they didn't get sucked up by aliens..or did they.....
- Valued contributor
- Posts: 271
- Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:27 pm
- Location: The Land of Political Correctness
The story is just ridiculous.
and show her the picture of the door to the Auschwitz gas chamber and point out that it is unsealed and has a large easily broken plate glass window. Then show her the picture of the large easily broken window in the wall of the gas chamber at Majdanek. Point out that both these gas chambers are obvious hoaxes. You have to rely on the PICTURES, these are irrefutable FACTS.
Thus, you have demonstrated an ongoing hoax, and you have demonstrated that the holocaust 'authorities' have no regard for the truth and have no compunction whatever about telling obviously absurd lies.
You can also point out that there is not a single excavated grave of holocaust victims. Contrast that with the real mass graves of NKVD victims at Katyn and Vinnitsa.
Quote Elie Weisel's book ''Night', page six, "Babies were thrown into the air and the machine gunners used them as targets." Point out that it is uncorroborated, there is not a shred of evidence, and it is physically impossible. Note that Elie Weisel got a Nobel prize for lies like this one.
Fake murder weapons, no bodies, and degenerate obvious lies treated as fact, that is the basis of the hoax. This should at least cause some cognitive dissonance in your mum. That's the most you can hope for to start.
Mum wrote:I do not understand why you guys think that so many people have got together and created, "out of the blue".. a big bullshit story about Nazis killing Jews, gassing Jews, shooting, raping.. ect. . People get crazy in a war. They turn into the animals that we are,
People do get crazy in a war, including the prisoners. In times of stress, people tend to behave differently. Poor people steal, angry people commit violent acts, prisoners lie for pity.
No one was gassed. There's simply no evidence of this claim.
Shootings occur during a war. This is inevitable. But the amount of shootings claimed are not backed up by physical evidence. There are no mass graves full of corpses with bullets in them, and in turn the amount of casings found doesn't prove the amount of corpses claimed. More importantly, it in no way proves an extermination program or systematic elimination of any one group. There was a war going on, bullets tend to be found on the occupied territories. Of course, partisans were shot as they were active participants in war. Criminals were also shot. Remember the rapes you mentioned? Jewish prisoners were raping their own people within the camps. Not all the prisoners could earn the necessary units to purchase services from the brothel, so they resorted to crime. When they were caught, they were subsequently dealt with. It's important to note that Jews were not the only people getting raped. German civilian women were raped by opposing forces as well.
The point of this is you acknowledge behavior during war time being animalistic, but you seem to only feel a sense of sympathy for one group involved.
Mum wrote: Why would so many say that there were gas chambers killing Jews
One can easily say the prisoners started such rumors to get some kind of closure to their missing friends and family. It's not as if the prisoners were informed of their fellow prisoner's movements or updated on their destinations. When the Allies liberated the camps, they were met by thousands of prisoners who had recently been put through tremendous conditions as a result of Allied bombing raids which cut off medical supplies and basic necessities. The prisoners instantly regaled the liberating troops with stories about things they never actually witnessed. It's the rumor mill on a extremist level. Are you familiar with the child's game of 'Telephone', where one child says something in secret to another, and that child tells the same to the next, and so on? By the end, the original message is lost, but in the case of the Jews, the originators of the rumors were relocated in an effort to emigrate them or moved to where their labor was needed for the German war effort.
I'm sure you recall the stories of shrunken heads, human skin lampshades, sex machines, and the like. All turned out to be products created to meet the claims. The claims were not based on the products. These are small examples of propaganda which eventually led to larger examples such as gas chambers, extermination programs, and mass graves combined with open air pyres burning Jews night and day.
The reality of war is the dead. However, the connections made between the dead and the methods claimed to have caused their deaths are based on theory or nothing at all.
Mum wrote: and i have tried with all of my heart to understand your views.
This isn't about understanding "our" views. This is about understanding fact and how something becomes fact... or doesn't.
It's important to realize there is very little empirical evidence to support the majority of the claims made by the Jews. Physical evidence should be the primary support, followed by documents, then witness testimony. Bells and whistles should be going off at the absence of the first two. When one thinks of the ease of claiming things without proof, a person should be able to consider the claims are false or motivated by ill will.
Mum wrote: Some things I can see are dodgy..thats for sure.
Indeed. However, I'm curious as to which things you consider dodgy and why.
More importantly, I'm trying to understand why you haven't progressed to understanding how the whole concept of the Holocaust™ is more of an impossibility. What causes a Believer to realize certain things are dodgy, but not others? Is it something like a lack of information? Fear of finding out you've been duped? Pride? Guilt?
Why would something like electrocution machines be dodgy, but not gas chambers?
Mum wrote: but denying the murders and gas chambers baffles me. I do believe that they were killing Jews like that.
What I can't understand is why people believe these chambers existed when the only evidence of such things is the claims of the prisoners. Have you ever attempted to use the logic necessary to make those chambers real to anything else? For instance, if you believe those chambers existed because someone told you they did (even though you've never seen them or witnessed what the prisoners claimed), could you apply that logic to any other situation? If I told you "Aliens swooped down and took the Jews", would you believe it for no other reason than because I told you it happened? Even though there is no physical evidence to support the claim? Or is it because most people fear the unknown and have to find a way to rationalize and put an end to their fears by filling in blanks with their own conclusions or ones given to them based on nothing?
The question of gas chambers and murders shouldn't lie with the deniers. If you believe they existed, then there should be little or no effort involved in proving them without using simple claims, but with actual evidence. So if you were asked to prove why you believe in gas chambers and mass murders, and had to leave out the rumor mill claims, could you prove they existed to anyone and everyone, including scientists?
In my experience, most Believers cannot, and when asked to, don't and won't.
Mum wrote: I think that every body caught up in that did a lot of crazy cruel shit. EVERYONE!
Quite possible, but the idea that something is possible doesn't make it an actual occurrence.
Mum wrote: I do get very frustrated when jazz denies the chambers
As we get frustrated when no one seems to be able to prove their existence beyond baseless claims.
Mum wrote: And i Know that she says they did autopsy's and couldn't find anyone who died from cyanide gas,,but families would call the government to see where their loved one is. they would of worked out a great ballpark of how many Jews were missing. no bodies. they didn't get sucked up by aliens..or did they.....
Public opinion is easily swayed. Most people are followers, destined to be led by their noses. Generally, all it takes is one motivated speaker or a few acts or tales of acts to create outrage and hatred.
It's my opinion the Holocaust™ was, what I will call, an opportunity.
Not for the Germans, but for post-war Jews.
As for the aliens, no one seriously claims Jews were snatched up by aliens. Guess why?
Because they can't prove it. However, you'll always find people who insist that's exactly what happened and they will believe such a thing as long as they have air in their lungs.
Bodies were strewn everywhere when the Allies took over the camps, yet there has not been one body ever found that has been determined to have died from Zyklon B gassing in any of the camps.
The Allies had several teams performing autopsies on deceased inmates.
This was done to gather evidence to be used in court against the Nazi's. They found that the predominant cause of death was disease and starvation.
When either a body or ashes left after a cremation are buried, earth has to be removed to accommodate it. When tens of thousands of bodies or thousands of cubic feet of ashes are buried, an equal amount of earth has to be moved to accommodate it, or huge piles of material would result.
There are no huge piles of anything in Auschwitz.
Cremation does not burn teeth.
There should be millions of teeth laying in and around the Auschwitz complex, for example. There are none.
There is little if any cyanide residue on the walls of the so-called gas chambers.
Yet, there is extensive contamination of the clothing delousing chambers.
Germany, toward the end of the war was desperate for laborers.
Camp inmates provided much of this labor. It was in their best interest to keep them as healthy as possible.
Logic would imply that if the Germans were truly as brutal as perceived and desired to simply kill Jews...they would force them into an open pit and just shoot them rather than go through the process of putting them in pretend showers and gassing them-- after which, the bodies had to be dragged out and put into cremation ovens. This cremation process would use up fuel much needed elsewhere.
The gas chamber stories were circulated throughout the camp populations as a means to provoke uprisings.
Toward the end of the war, leaflets were dropped from Allied planes throughout the region, claiming that the German's were gassing people in the camps. In addition, propaganda broadcasts, primarily from Britain were claiming the same thing.
May I also add that as I recall ( you should look this up) a cremation process, on average, requires about 50 pounds of coke or 300 pounds of wood to cremate a single body and it leaves about 5 pounds of ash, bones, teeth and cinders behind per body. This of course means that at a rate of 2,000 gassings and cremations per hour, as claimed by many "eye witnesses", 5 times 2, 000 pounds of ash and 50 times 2, 000 pounds of coke, or five tons of ash and 50 tons of coke, would have been required hour after hour, week after week, month after month during the year and a half or so that the so called death camps were in operation. At this rate, assuming a 40 hour work week, each death camp would have produced 200 tons of ash from the required 2, 000 tons of coke and 80, 000 bodies consumed per week.
Yet, as you stated, there is no evidence of any of this ever happening. Moreover, until the revisionists revealed these facts to the "believers", no mention had ever been made of train load after train load of wood and/or coke filled trains heading towards the camps, nor was it ever mentioned of the massive clean up ash that would have had to have taken place every hour after hour during the extermination processes. I hope this helps your understanding of the situation.
ps wrote:There is really a really very short way to cure every believer. One takes the statements of the witnesses without to change them and without denying them and shows the results of the assertions!
How this goes, you can read up (unfortunately only in German) here:
http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/Gaskammer_ ... peratur%29
Do you have the time to translate it?
By the way, has anyone watched "Bad Arolson Holocaust Archives"? Apparently (someone told me this) that Heinrich Himmler made a speech on Oct 4,1943 to his SS generals:
I shall speak to you now of a very serious subject. I mean the extermination of the Jewish race. It is one of those things which is easy to say "The Jewish race is being exterminated" says every party member. That's clear, its part of our program elimination of the Jews, extermination, right we're doing it. We had a moral right, we had the duty to our people to destroy this people which wanted to destroy us.
Google translate can give you the gist of the article:
There's a thread on the Posen speech:
Revisionists are just the messengers, the laughable absurdity of the impossible 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
Don't die stupid.
1. David Cole's videos on Auschwitz.
2. Austin App's six million swindle.
3. The Chemical & Toxicological Impossibility Of The Auschwitz Gas Chamber Legend
4. The First Six Million - WHY THEY CHOSE THE NUMBER SIX
5. OTOTH's analysis of the Cole-Bradley debacle on Donahue
Jews have a motive to lie based on revenge and also their Talmudic religion, ala Kol Nidre. I covered that in my six million thread. Atheist Jew, Joseph Burg who tesitifed for Ernst Zundel in 1985 sort of gave the game away when he said these Jews at Nuremburg didn't view their promise to tell the truth as a binding oath.
The 'False News' Trial of Ernst Zündel -- 1988
Joseph G. Burg was the twelfth witness called by the defense. He testified on Tuesday, March 29 and Wednesday, March 30, 1988.
In his books, Burg dealt with the subject of the alleged Nazi extermination camps. Burg had spoken to hundreds of people who had been in Auschwitz and had visited the camp in the fall of 1945. Burg had wanted to see the crematoria, the hospitals, and in particular, a large new bakery. He also wanted to find the gas chambers although at that time gassings were not yet in fashion. He did not find any gas chambers. Burg formed the opinion that there were no "extermination" camps at all, that gas chambers had never existed and that there had been no plan to exterminate the Jews of Europe. These opinions were published in his books and in his correspondence with Zündel. (25-6825 to 6838)
Burg also visited Majdanek three times. He did find gas chambers in Majdanek, but testified that they were disinfection gas chambers for liquidating lice and fleas: bugs which caused epidemics. The chambers were standard in each camp and had the German words "Attention! Poisonous Gas!" under a death skull. Zyklon B was the new formula used to disinfect the clothing. It destroyed the bugs but not the fabric. (25-6839)
Burg testified that he spoke to hundreds of people who serviced and operated the crematoria but the people who operated gas chambers were impossible to find. Nobody had published anything in which it was claimed that he worked in a gassing institution for human beings. There was literature about gassing that was completely contradictory. Why? Because it was all made up. These opinions were published in his books. (25-6840)
Like all other activities in the camp, the inmates looked after the crematoria. It was the most difficult work because of the heat and the lifting of corpses into the ovens. The inmates worked very often in three shifts around the clock. (26-6998) These workers did it voluntarily. They were asked by the Jewish council or the Jewish police. It was important to ask how the Jewish council or police co-operated with the German SS. (26-6900)
When they were in full operation, the chimneys had an increased amount of smoke. So, logically, depending on the weather or the time of day, the colour of the flames was different. People invented stories that inside devilish things were going on. They said living human beings were being burned. They invented the story that every crematorium was a gas chamber. It had even gotten to the point that the authors had such large imaginations that when they saw the blue colour of the smoke, they knew that Jews were being burned. (26-6898, 6899)
Others invented the story that living Jews were being pushed in to be burned. Burg testified that he would like to see a Jew who had given such statements during a trial. He said such a Jew should be forced to take an oath under the rabbi rites with the skull cap, without pictures of Christ, with the Hebrew Bible, in the presence of a rabbi or a pious religious Jew. Then he should swear an oath that he had seen something like that. Then these false statements, these sick statements, would go down by 99.5 percent because the superficial oath was not morally binding for these Jews. (26-6900)
At the time he was in a displaced persons camp, Burg spoke to thirty or forty people about gas chambers and to about five to ten people about the crematoria. He had a special permit allowing him to visit the different areas where Jewish displaced persons were. He tried to get interviews from various ghettos and camps because at that time he had already checked various false statements. (26-6901)
In 1946 Burg attended the Nuremberg trials at times when matters involving Jews were being raised. During one of these attendances he met Ilya Ehrenburg and a Jewish publisher who had been in Auschwitz for several years. Burg asked the publisher whether he had seen any gassing institutions for human beings and he said no. Ehrenburg, who had been the head of propaganda for the Red Army during the war, told Burg he had been to Auschwitz but he too had not seen anything of gassings. Burg had discussed this information with Zündel in general. (25-6857, 6858) Burg could not understand the emphasis on gassings. (26-6904)
In other words, Joseph had met ilya ehrenburg the original six million dollar men and Ilya ADMITTED to Joseph there was no evidence for gas chambers. IN OTHER WORDS, HE DIDN'T THINK A FELLOW COMMUNIST ATHEIST JEW WOULD RAT HIM AND THE OTHER JEWS OUT. Now maybe you know why burg was denied burial in a Jewish cemetary for what he said.
Now here is a debate where someone is saying, "Isn't it funny how the Kol Nidre was re-instituted in 1945 just after the second world war? Which could give Jews an excuse to lie in gentile courts despite promising to tell the truth?"
Of course the person Salvador Astucia is talking to is making excuses for this, but then ask yourself why Jews themselves have admitted to this date?
Under pressure from the anti-Semites in the nineteenth century, the Reform movement bowed to pressure and removed Kol Nidre from its prayer books. In recognition of the role that the prayer has played during the Inquisition, Kol Nidre was restored in 1945.
http://www.bukisa.com/articles/348528_t ... z16hqPBAj5
Auschwitz Survivor Claims Elie Wiesel is an Impostor
http://www.savethemales.ca/translated_f ... arian.html
Let's not forget how Simon Wiesenthal was outed.
The head Nazi-hunter’s trail of lies
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 718913.ece
It is right to expose Wiesenthal
www.thejc.com/comment/columnists/it-rig ... wiesenthal
Deconstructing Simon Wiesenthal by Lawrence Swaim
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/deconst ... swaim.html
Do I even have to go into how they crucified John Demjanjuk, and how they are still going after him despite Jim Traficant's evidence that Ivan the terrible was in fact Ivan Marchenko and that two US attorneys suborned perjury to crucify an innocent Demjanjuk? Remember how Israel had to recognize his innocence? The crook and exposed liar Simon Wiesenthal AND HIS WIESENTHAL CENTER were largely responsible for the harrassment of Demjanjuk in the first place.
Jewish Hatred Exposed: The Case of John Demnjanjuk
GERMAN JEWS DEMAND ‘NO MERCY’ FOR DEMJANJUK
The “Nazi Extermination Camp” of Sobibor in the Context of the Demjanjuk Case
http://johndenugent.com/blog/2009/08/28 ... -deportee/
Why did the allies have to create fake documents to support something that's supposed to be true?
Scroll down to 9.8.2. "10 Gas Detectors" to see what I am talking about when it comes to forgeries that help boost the extermination theorist's side.
I could go on but this should suffice for your mother.
There's another holocaust believer attacking me. I repeated everything Barrington James wrote and his reply was:
holocaust believer wrote:Holocaust deniers like you love to cite the fact that there was never a blatant, unquestionable order written or signed by Adolf Hitler that specifically ordered the death of the jewish populations of europe. However, very few nazi documents used such obvious terms as "murder" or "death" when addressing their actions. Almost always the spoke and wrote with suggestive phrases such as "the final solution to the jewish question" rather than "the destruction of the jewish people. That's because most of the gassing victims had their bodies cremated or buried in mass graves immediately after death you dumbass!!! You don't understand the differences between everyday civilian crematoria and military industrial crematoria. The Auschwitz furnaces were designed to run continously using the heat energy produced by the burning of previous bodies to keep the oven hot for the next bodies. After they were fired with coke to their proper operating temperature at the beginning of the day, the furnaces required little or no extra fuel to operate. This is a technical achievement that is well documented. The furnaces at Auschwitz were massive and were capable of disposing of several bodies per muffle in half an hour or so, and they could run for days at a time without maintenance.
Please help me out, I'm nowhere near as good as you guys on here. I can practically see this guy sitting in front of the computer frothing at the mouth lol.
Roberto Muehlenkamp debunked on 3.5kg of coke cremations
I would like you to remember that your mother seems more into the superficial issues surrounding revisionism. She wonders why we believe it? We claim it is because of evidence and not blind hate. She may not buy that. Remember she said why would Jews get together and lie? Well you can find THAT ANSWER in my WHY THEY CHOSE THE NUMBER SIX THREAD as it talks about the Jewish Kol Nidre prayer and how it gives them permission to lie to gentiles. And you can also find that answer in that kol nidre debate on that jfkmontreal.com link. Ask yourself: Why of all the years to bring it back, would it be right after the second world war, A TIME WHICH WASN'T THE FIRST TIME THEY TRIED TO CLAIM SIX MILLION WERE DYING? And it wasn't because that was an accurate demographic figure. No, it has to do with an occult kabbalistic prophecy. Again, I explain it in my WHY THEY CHOSE THE NUMBER SIX thread. It's a dense read, but it's very educational.
Sorry guys but THIS is page one of that kol nidre debate.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests