Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

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Toshiro
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Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby Toshiro » 8 years 4 months ago (Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:59 pm)

Josef Kleinmann, a Czech Jew who changed his name after the war and moved to the United States of America, returns to the Czech Republic in 1993 to search for his family.

There, he finds out his entire family is regarded as deceased. But to his surprise, Josef himself is listed as dead.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EddVeWgQf4o[/youtube]

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Hannover
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Re: Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby Hannover » 8 years 4 months ago (Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:28 pm)

Indeed, changing names as so many did after WWII and going to many other countries, especially to racist Israel, makes it appear that Jews have disappeared. The canard question of "Where did they go then" is the mouse that roared. When all along they are living out their lives or died of non 'holocaust' related deaths like everyone else. The endless amounts of 'survivor$' testifies to those simple facts.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby Mkk » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:19 am)

Hannover wrote:Indeed, changing names as so many did after WWII and going to many other countries, especially to racist Israel, makes it appear that Jews have disappeared. The canard question of "Where did they go then" is the mouse that roared. When all along they are living out their lives or died of non 'holocaust' related deaths like everyone else. The endless amounts of 'survivor$' testifies to those simple facts.

- Hannover

That's a good reason why getting information about the destination of the Jews in the East is so difficult. Firstly, considering everything we've seen I wouldn't be surprised if damning (to the holocaust, that is) information is being withheld, and secondly, many Jews deconverted before or after war's end.

And how old is this man? If he or his sister were under a certain age, they should have been "gassed."
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

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Re: Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby Toshiro » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:41 am)

Mkk wrote:And how old is this man? If he or his sister were under a certain age, they should have been "gassed."

Indeed. He was 4 years old.

Anatomy of the Auschwitz death camp, Israel Gutman, Michael Berenbaum, USHMM, 1994, page 322:
The youngest twin in our group was "Pepichko" from Czechoslovakia, who was four or five years old [Josef Kleinmann, born on April 14, 1940, camp serial no. A-2459].
Last edited by Toshiro on Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:43 am)

Rudolf Vrba http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Vrba, who allegedly blew the whistle on the Auschwitz gas chambers, used to be listed on the Yad Vashem database as having "perished in the Shoah", as I pointed out in this post http://codoh.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6286&p=44887&hilit=+vrba#p44887.

Unfortunately, from our viewpoint, someone at Yad Vashem must read this forum; he's since been removed. What a shame I didn't keep a screen shot!

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Re: Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby Cloud » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:53 pm)

Unfortunately, from our viewpoint, someone at Yad Vashem must read this forum; he's since been removed. What a shame I didn't keep a screen shot!

Do you remember the URL? Try to find it using the Wayback Machine:

http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

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Re: Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:08 pm)

Cloud wrote:Do you remember the URL? Try to find it using the Wayback Machine: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php


Another poster, Veritas, got a screenshot:

Image

Interestingly, although I claimed credit for it in good faith, it turns out it was the poster Trevor. Genuine error. Just like those survivors repeating what they heard as their own experience.

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Re: Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby Toshiro » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:27 pm)

I've uncovered more about this Josef Kleinmann.

Current name is Peter Greenfield (or Greenfeld).

Here's what he remembers from Auschwitz:

[...]

Then, I keep remembering the football field and there was a pit with water, maybe it was a swimming pool, but I remember people in the water.

[...]

Summer was gone, and it became very cold. It was all white with snow. I can see lots of big tanks everywhere. They got us out of the barracks. They began burning papers, clothes, everything. [...] A man came by and picked me up and said, "I will take you home with me because I am sure that no one survived in your family."

He took me to Ungvar, a city in Hungary, now the Soviet Union. I lived with him about a half year or so; he found his old house and he opened a small restaurant to make a living. And, this I remember very too. One day my adopting father was serving food to some Russian officers. They demanded free vodka. He served them a couple of rounds and then asked them to pay or he would not serve them anymore. One of the officers took out his revolver and shot my poor adopting father on the spot. Next door lived a relative by the name of Hershkowitz, and he ran over to see what was the shooting all about. My adopting father had told Mr. Hershkowitz, "If anyone from my family comes back, please promise me that you will tell them that this little boy is my son." and he died. In a couple of weeks, Mr. Greenfeld's daughter came back from camp. Mr. Hershkowitz told her that her father's last request was to raise me as a Greenfeld son. So this is the way I stayed with the daughter, Ms. Greenfeld. She lives now in New York, and her name is now Grunberger after she got married, and she raised me. She began looking for my family so she knew that my name was Klineman [sic]. <how in the world did she know his real surname?>

[...]

I understand that I was two years old and in Theresienstadt before I went to Auschwitz. It is possible that my sister is somewhere in Poland because she might have been picked up by a Polish woman and raised Polish. She wouldn't know that she is Jewish except for her number.

Source: http://www.candlesholocaustmuseum.org/i ... sid=4&id=1

Another possible theory for "where did they go?" Like Josef, and possibly his sister, the children were taken/adopted by gentiles and raised as Polish, Ukrainian, Hungarian, Russian, etc.

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Re: Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:10 pm)

Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby Kageki » 8 years 4 months ago (Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:38 am)

I am very curious to find out how they determined this man was dead. He was even sent to Auschwitz to make things more interesting. Perhaps it's a relatively rare occurrence, but then it's also possible there are more similar cases. This is one for the Holocaust historians to explain.

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Re: Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby Mkk » 8 years 4 months ago (Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:27 am)

I understand that I was two years old and in Theresienstadt before I went to Auschwitz.

There goes "all children were gassed". Again.


Kageki, it says this man was determined as dead from a deportation list- to Sobibor, which ofcourse is claimed to be pure extermination camp.
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

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Re: Jewish holocaust survivor finds out he is listed as dead

Postby Hannover » 8 years 4 months ago (Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:22 pm)

I understand that I was two years old and in Theresienstadt before I went to Auschwitz.

But we're told that Theresienstadt was for the elderly.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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