Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

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borjastick
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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby borjastick » 7 years 6 months ago (Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:49 pm)

It is my clear understanding that there were definitely deaths attributed to this cold water treatment. It was a scientific in its approach but di result in deaths. This is why we now know exact chances and timings of surviving being dumped into the sea. However I do take the point that Mengele was a bit of a poster boy for the Nazi Hunters. He had it all, wretched reputation, fleeing the scene of the alleged crime, and never brought to justice. But the proof is thin on the ground at least and it all rests on those amazing witness people, who we all know can tell porkies or enormous proportions...
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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Charles Traynor » 7 years 6 months ago (Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:58 pm)

The freezing experiments were conducted from August 1942 to approximately May 1943 at Dachau. Dr. Mengele was never implicated in anyway.

The Germans only used volunteer prisoners who had been sentenced to death to participate in high risk experiments (if the prisoners survived there would be a reprieve of sentence and possible release at a later date).

I suggest that certain individuals here should do a little research before indulging in the spreading of rumours which augment the Hoax.

A good place to start for anyone seriously interested in learning more about this subject would be the Nuremburg Doctors Trial.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Saigon » 7 years 6 months ago (Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:19 am)

I am a little puzzled that no one mentions here that around 50 (I believe from memory that it is 55) of Mengele's staff made statements detailing and explaining the purpose of the experiments.

In other words, much of what we know about Mengele, we know from his own staff. This information is freely available, in German, and much of it is included in some of the more important books on the camps, that I would assume we have all read.

It seems very strange to me that people here say that they have not seen any evidence of horrific forms of torture being used, when some of the data from those experiments - for instance that on how long people can survive in icy water - are still used today.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby borjastick » 7 years 6 months ago (Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:13 pm)

Well the cold water experiments have been dealt with above. In other words they were done at Dachau and not Auschwitz and as such nothing to do with Mengele. If you have evidence that contradicts this, for example his staff statements, please present it here for us all to read.
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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby borjastick » 7 years 6 months ago (Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:25 pm)

In any case I am not sure what Mengele has got to do with the holocaust as I interpret it. He was vilified by Wiesenthal and made into a monster so as to aid the story of how evil all Germans were. Thus 'proving' to the world that the holocaust was indeed true.

I am interested in whether or not six million jews were gassed in gas chambers as part of a deliberate act to permanently rid europe of its jews. Clearly from my research this did not happen.
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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Charles Traynor » 7 years 6 months ago (Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:49 pm)

Exactly Borjastick, if the Jewish Holocaust Industry had any real dirt on Dr. Mengele the whole world would know about it. As it is, all the History Channel and their researchers can offer Joe and Jill Sixpack is countless boring and repetative documentaries on how he escaped to South America.

The charlatans never go into any detail about Mengele’s work at Auschwitz because there is no evidence of him ever conducting any blood curdling experiments. Dr. Mengele joined the medical profession to save lives not to take them.
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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Saigon » 7 years 6 months ago (Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:08 pm)

borjastick wrote:Well the cold water experiments have been dealt with above. In other words they were done at Dachau and not Auschwitz and as such nothing to do with Mengele. If you have evidence that contradicts this, for example his staff statements, please present it here for us all to read.


The statements of his staff are available and have been available for years. If you would like me to recommend a book for you, then by all means ask, and I'll be happy to provide the information. I have posted one quote here below. The Wiki page linked provides details of source material which includes statements by staff.

Many experiments WERE conducted at Dachau, and you are right that because of the horror of Mengele's work at Auschwitz, he has tended to take the blame for all Nazi experimentation, which possibly is not justified.

This does not mean the experiments were not conducted.

An Auschwitz prisoner doctor has said: "He was capable of being so kind to the children, to have them become fond of him, to bring them sugar, to think of small details in their daily lives, and to do things we would genuinely admire.... And then, next to that,... the crematoria smoke, and these children, tomorrow or in a half-hour, he is going to send them there. Well, that is where the anomaly lay."[24] The book Children of the Flames, by Lucette Matalon Lagnado and Shiela Cohn Dekel, chronicles Mengele's medical experimental activities on approximately 1,500 pairs of twins who passed through the Auschwitz death camp during World War II until its liberation at the end of the war. By the 1980s only 100 sets of these twins could be found. Many recalled his friendly manner towards them, and his gifts of chocolates. The older ones "recognized his kindness as a deception—yet another of his perverse experiments to test (our) mental endurance."[25] He would also kill them without hesitation, sometimes administering injections to the children or shooting them himself, and would dissect them immediately afterwards. On one evening alone he killed 14 twins.[15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 7 years 6 months ago (Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:17 pm)

The comment by Saigon above is interesting but all-too-typical of the malicious drivel that was and, obviously, still is used to defame a totally innocent and thoroughly decent doctor, Dr. Josef Mengele, who saved many lives.

So, Saigon--is there even one shred of evidence of even one atrocious medical experiment by Mengele o-t-h-e-r t-h-a-n testimony manufactured after the war? Go to it, Saigon! Show us something at least. Try to be specific. Surely, there must be at least some smidgeon of documentary evidence of Mengele's supposed experiments to change people's eye color. Of course, there is none at all and there never was any. The supposed eyewitnesses and/or victims simply lied, bigtime! Ultimately, all of these accusations expose the accusers of what they truly are themselves. When the Nazis put such creatures into concentration camps, they certainly had the right idea.

As to the dangerous, life-threatening but enormously important medical experiments at Dachau to which Mengele had absolutely no connection at all, the procedure was to ONLY use volunteers for the experiments. The deal was that if they were under a death sentence for a capital crime, the death sentence would be commuted if the person survived the experiments. My reading of the evidence is that all of the experimentees' vital signs were carefully monitored throughout the experiments and were quickly ended if the experimentee seemed near death. At least one document written by Dr. Sigmund Rascher about his experiments and commented upon by Himmler in the margin ("Very interesting!") was that absolutely no one died from these experiments. There was nothing morally wrong with these experiments--at all!

One example of such experiments simulated the bailout of pilots from their airplanes at extreme high altitudes (over 30,000 feet). The question was whether anyone could survive such bailouts--even with a parachute? There is a famous set of photos taken In a hyperbaric chamber of a volunteer (who looked like he might be Jewish) wearing a parachute harness. An actual bailout was simulated by a sudden drop in pressure which caused a wildly irregular heart rhythm and a loss of consciousness (to brainwashed viewers he appears to be dead) --but, as his descent to low altitudes was simulated by increasing air pressure, his vital signs became normal gradually and he survived. Those photos were juxtaposed with pictures of an autopsy with part of another person's skull removed to falsely suggest that it was the same person.

The cold water experiments at Dachau were designed to determine the survival chances and survival times for pilots who had to bailout over the ocean. At what time did it seem prudent to abandon searches for people who might have been lost in arctic waters for example. These air rescue searches were often extremely dangerous in themselves. The experimentees were also volunteers with the same kind of offer of commutation of any death sentence. Their vital signs were monitored thorughout these enormously important experiments and no one died.

The Nazis really were the Good Guys, folks. The Americans and Jews were, and still are, spreading the most scurrilous lies to defame their victims in WW2 and bring on a new world war, this time against Iran.

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Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Saigon » 7 years 6 months ago (Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:19 pm)

Freidrich -

As mentioned and linked earlier, there are at least 55 statements from doctors working with Mengele confirming the details of his experimentation. This information is not difficult to source. The witnesses are largely German, worked personally with Mengele, and were trained medical personnel. Many actively conducted experiments themselves, under his supervision.

As another poster also mentioned earlier, we also know for a fact that experiments were also conducted at Dachau, establishing beyond any shadow of a doubt that experiments were taking place at more than one camp.

The book to read is "The Nazi Doctors" by Robert Jay Lifton - let me know if you have any problems finding it.

I am sure it will answer all of the issues you raise in your last post here.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Hannover » 7 years 6 months ago (Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:28 am)

Saigon wrote:Freidrich -

As mentioned and linked earlier, there are at least 55 statements from doctors working with Mengele confirming the details of his experimentation. This information is not difficult to source. The witnesses are largely German, worked personally with Mengele, and were trained medical personnel. Many actively conducted experiments themselves, under his supervision.

As another poster also mentioned earlier, we also know for a fact that experiments were also conducted at Dachau, establishing beyond any shadow of a doubt that experiments were taking place at more than one camp.

The book to read is "The Nazi Doctors" by Robert Jay Lifton - let me know if you have any problems finding it.

I am sure it will answer all of the issues you raise in your last post here.

No Saigon, it is incumbent upon you to support your allegations. That is the rules here, just like in a real court of law. Tell us, don't just say 'read the book'. That's not going to convince anyone and would be laughed out of a real court of law.

Saigon, there are literally tens of thousands of people who testified and confessed to witchcraft & sorcery in courts of law where they were accepted as fact and entered into written records. Testimonies, eyewitnesses, confessions state that certain individuals had sex with the devil, all accepted as fact by courts of the time and written into the records. Believe it?

Your book on Mengle is just that, a book written by some guy.
What did these doctors say?
Were they being held by Allied authorities when they made their statements? IOW, trying to save their skin.
Were they under threat of imprisonment when they made their statements? IOW, trying to save their skin.
If these allged statements were made in courts, where can we read the verbatim transcripts?
Where can we read the cross examinations of these doctors?
If they 'worked with Mengele', then I ask you, were they sent to prison as accomplices? If not, why not?
Where is the physical evidence for the laughable claims?

Please show us what you claim.

more discussion on Mengele:

Auschwitz & The Seven Dwarfs
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=845

Doktor Mengele: the height of the hoax
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1586

Josef Mengele diaries just "found" (in Oct 2004)
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1506

The Journal of Historical Review
Lessons of the Mengele Affair
http://vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/6/3/Weber377-383.html

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby borjastick » 7 years 6 months ago (Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:47 am)

Saigon wrote:An Auschwitz prisoner doctor has said: "He was capable of being so kind to the children, to have them become fond of him, to bring them sugar, to think of small details in their daily lives, and to do things we would genuinely admire.... And then, next to that,... the crematoria smoke, and these children, tomorrow or in a half-hour, he is going to send them there. Well, that is where the anomaly lay."[24] The book Children of the Flames, by Lucette Matalon Lagnado and Shiela Cohn Dekel, chronicles Mengele's medical experimental activities on approximately 1,500 pairs of twins who passed through the Auschwitz death camp during World War II until its liberation at the end of the war. By the 1980s only 100 sets of these twins could be found. Many recalled his friendly manner towards them, and his gifts of chocolates. The older ones "recognized his kindness as a deception—yet another of his perverse experiments to test (our) mental endurance."[25] He would also kill them without hesitation, sometimes administering injections to the children or shooting them himself, and would dissect them immediately afterwards. On one evening alone he killed 14 twins.[15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele


The claim that 1500 pairs of twins passed through Auschwitz is worth analysing in itself. I find it very unlikely indeed. Maybe more proof of outrageous claims by the so called victims of the holocaust. I will admit that my maths are rubbish but I have been researching the incidence of twin birth.The general worldwide twin birth rate is just 3.5 in every 1000 births. Anyone will tell you that they hardly ever see twins. Indeed I can only remember one set of twins in my childrens school of over 1800. So here is my calculation. To have 1500 twins in auschwitz would mean 428,000 children being born on an average twin birth rate. This makes the chance of 1500 twins even more unlikely. Even if my calcs are dodgy I think I have shown the possibility of 1500 twins in auschwitz is most unlikely. Now, we can assume that these 1500 children were all jewish, and as the rate of 3.5/1000 births applies to all children born in germany at that time, these claims are odd to say the least. I simply don't accept the 1500 figure. Which would then unsurprisingly cast doubt on most of what Saigon has said about Mengele.
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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 7 years 6 months ago (Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:35 am)

As expected, when I challeneged Saigon to identify even one smidgeon of documentary evidence of any atrocious experiments by Menegele, he produced NOTHING. Aren't you the least bit embarrassed, Saigon? ALL of the "evidence" against Mengele was clearly manufactured a-f-t-e-r the war. Since Saigon seems to have the Lifton book nearby, perhaps he can look for some evidence. Try again Saigon and do your homework before accusing anyone of horrible crimes that never happened!

For Dachau there is an abundance of documentary evidence of high risk experiments. Such a contrast to the Mengele rubbish. Oh and btw also--Robert Jay Lifton is Jewish also. Such a surprise, already.

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The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 7 years 6 months ago (Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:13 pm)

There is an essay of Mattogno about the twins of Auschwitz - in German.
http://vho.org/VffG/2005/1/Mattogno51-68.html
Mattogno lists hundrets of names, partly with "liberation date".
I hope the readers understand German. Or there is an english version in the web.
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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Hannover » 7 years 6 months ago (Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:33 pm)

Saigon posted:
... 1,500 pairs of twins who passed through the Auschwitz death camp ...

Exposed as a mathematical absurdity.
And not a single source for such 'data' provided, of course.

more from Saigon:
... 100 sets of these twins could be found.

But according to the standard storyline all children and those unable to work were "gassed upon arrival", just after the "selection" for work process. But here we have an alleged 100 sets of twins who were not put to death.

Saigon yet again:
And then, next to that,... the crematoria smoke, and these children, tomorrow or in a half-hour, he is going to send them there.

Then how did all these twins survive? And Saigon cannot show us a single aerial photo of smoking crematoriums during the alleged highest point of the alleged gassings and gassing victims cremations. Note: photos of the period of alleged activity do exist, and not a single one conforms to the storyline. Tampering aside, of course.
see:
'Altered Aerial Photos and the Shadows of Doom'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3249&p=48555

But then that is always the problem with liars, they can't keep their lies straight.

This really is too easy.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Mengele denied performing ghastly experiments on anybody

Postby Mkk » 7 years 6 months ago (Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:05 am)

The best Saigon can do is quote from the notoriously unreliable source Wikipedia - a website that slavishly adheres to the Holohoax storyline. The testimony has been exposed as absurd.

Can you or can you not provide non-testimonial evidence for these medical experiments by Mengele?
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13


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