New Books to be investigated

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New Books to be investigated

Postby truth » 7 years 5 months ago (Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:40 pm)

Secret Intelligence and the Holocaust: Collected Essays from the Colloquium at the City University of New York by David Bankier (Author), Gerhard L. Weinberg (Introduction)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/192963160X/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

There seems to be new evidence about the so called "Holocaust" through the investigation of hidden intelligence.

Quote, "When and how did the Allies find out about the Holocaust, and what were the intelligence sources that delivered the information? This fundamental collection of research studies digs deeply into that sensitive topic and sheds new light on the realities of code-breaking and understanding of what was happening in Nazi-occupied Europe during the Second World War. Documents with their sources have been assembled from many previously closed archives.

Includes a preface by David Bankier and an introductory essay by Gerhard L. Weinberg, along with the following international scholars of the Second World War and the Holocaust: David Alvarez, Shlomo Aronson, Peter R. Black, Richard Breitman, Hilary Earl, Tuvia Friling, Norman J.W. Goda, Robert Hanyok, Sébastien Laurent, Katrin Paehler, Stephen Tyas, and Piotr Wrobel."


I wonder, if anybody read the book and could share their thoughts. Are these scholars noteworthy? Not every scholar is unbiased. I would love to know more.

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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby Mkk » 7 years 5 months ago (Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:30 am)

I don't own the book but if these documents were so important we'd have heard of them by now.

I wouldn't be surprised if they substitute "relocation to the east" for extermination as usual.

Maybe someone on this forum would be obliged to pick the book up and report back on it's contents?
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby truth » 7 years 5 months ago (Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:19 pm)

Once, I saw the youtube video about the Geheim-Akte Rudolf Hess, who "the officials" say committed suicide. I remember, a documentary by Michael Vogt about the topic which was shown perhaps 20 years ago on German TV and was allowed and now is forbidden. Apparently he tried to go into the archived secret files in Great Britain and he and others discovered that a lot of the files were forged. Many files he did not have permission to look into, so he did the next layer of files and the paper and pen they used to forge history was not even from the time period. The older documents by now turned brown, the forged documents are all white and are thicker in quality. So much seems to have been forged. The above book must be investigated to see what the quality of paper is and what pens have been used.

I wish this youtube-documentary about Rudolf Hess would be translated into English because it would open many eyes as an example how much has been forged, perhaps even in Regards to an exaggeration of the crimes committed in concentration camps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9ZaPzVO7VM

Here more in German (you can translate this through "Google Yranslate")
http://rotefahne.eu/2011/12/historische ... hrhundert/

Now imagine: if all the archives would be open, the lie of the taught history to humanity would come out full blown. Looking into cases like this makes it pretty clear that similar lies may have have been committed in regards to the exaggerated crimes of the Holocaust, which often looks like as if used as an ideological tool to fulfill agendas of certain interest groups and as a materialistic enterprise to profit from on the cost of the German people and their culture - most of which had nothing to do with such atrocities themselves at all.

For me the question always remains? How can we be authentic human beings living honest lives in such materialistic and corrupt societies.

"Until we change the way money works, we change nothing - and we all are living lies. How can we change that?."

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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby Hannover » 7 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:30 am)

Now imagine: if all the archives would be open, the lie of the taught history to humanity would come out full blown.

Yes, there are obvious reasons why archives are kept under lock & key or access is highly restricted. The fact that documents are hidden away should tell anyone that lies are being protected against exposure. One does not keep truth under lock & key.

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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby JoFo » 7 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:36 pm)

I think in this case, they are keeping truth under lock and key...

However, who's to say that these compromising documents haven't already been destroyed? Wouldn't that be the simplest way to keep a lid on all this? I often wonder what will become of Mengele's papers now that they have been bought by some private collector.

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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby truth » 7 years 5 months ago (Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:46 pm)

One thing is for sure, our leaders lied to us always and leave us heavy hearted. I think it is important to maintain composure not to take history so serious, including our governments. If they call for war - don't go. They do not deserve our goodness and our quest for service and honesty. The way, they deceived the people of this world is most disgusting. It's worse than war for people are manipulated into insanity and into deeds they never would even contemplate.

Hence, the people guilty of the rotten history of humanity are the scheming leaders themselves (not the German leaders per se - all of them are guilty for the vast majority of all leaders cause the suffering of humanity) with their perverted aspirations for power, money and control. Without decency and common sense how can one serve the people. Ah, I forgot, they don't serve the people - the people serve them.... something needs to change. None deserves our power and money who does not use our life force for the good of others. Something needs to change to control the leaders, and secret services who cause so much needless suffering. We, humans are tired of war. Notice, they, the psychopathic leaders of humanity never stopped war since world war 2. They can't get enough - but yet the Germans are being tortured for wars they, the NON-Germans wanted and instigated and in the first place... Study Churchill, that war criminal and be dis.g.u.s.ted. We must be glad to not be like that. Hi-5 on us... the people. We are better than a Churchill to be sure for we as persons did not order the murder of the innocent civilians.

Unless you change the way money works - nothing will change.

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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby borjastick » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:41 am)

Truth, speaking as a Brit I can tell you that we Brits did not order the killing of innocent civilians like you are suggesting. I think you refer to the bombing of Dresden by the RAF and the subsequent deaths of many thousands. Firstly we had been subjected to mass civilian bombings by the Luftwaffe in our major cities, such as London, Birmingham, Liverpool etc. Many deaths ocurred, these were innocent civilians.

The response by the British political and military leaders was that we needed to hit back hard, so we did. It is by no way an excuse for killing innocents. There is a movement at the moment to have a statue erected in Britain to 'Bomber' Harris, the airforce bomber command chief at the time. He has been ignored hitherto mainly due to the Dresden issue I think. I can tell you that this proposal to honour him with a statue has not exactly been well received.

Here are a couple of points for you to consider. Firstly the Brits were the only country to fight against Hitler and his allies from the beginning of the war to the end. Despite what many in the US claim, the US did not win the war on their own. In fact I would argue that they came into a war only when it was obvious who was going to win, thanks to us Brits.

Secondly the figure of 200,000 dead in Dresden is hotly disputed, even by the Germans.

Thirdly Churchill is seen by almost all in Britain as a national hero and a treasure. Alongside Queen Elizabeth II and Isambard Kingdom Brunel. Unlike General Montgomery who we seem to think was a bit of a pompous dickhead and has been totally forgotten. He has a statue to him but it is almost impossible to find and is now completely overgrown.
(Edited for spelling mistakes only.)
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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby SevenUp » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:39 am)

truth wrote:There seems to be new evidence about the so called "Holocaust" through the investigation of hidden intelligence.


This is nonsense, no one in the US government aside from the War Refugee Board headed by Zionist Henry Morgenthau pretended to believe the absurd propaganda being generated by the World Jewish Congress and there representative news organizations like the New York Times. You can see this by examining telegrams sent by the US state dept. to the German government as the Russian army approached Auschwitz, generated by 'rumors' that the Nazis planned to execute prisoners before Auschwitz was captured, see the documents here .....

http://www.holohoax101.com/201/


borjastick wrote:Firstly we had been subjected to mass civilian bombings by the Luftwaffe in our magor cities, such as London, Birmingham, Liverpool etc


I'm not a student of this subject, but I think this is also nonsense. This is from the first item I googled up, it is a clip from Irving, on efforts by Hitler to make peace with Britain, and Churchill's efforts to thwart them, leading to the start of the civilian bombings ....

http://www.whale.to/c/irving_on_churchill.html

Hitler is still hoping that this madman in England will see reason or that he will be outvoted by his cabinet colleagues. So he's not doing Churchill the favor of bombing any English towns. Churchill is frantic because he thinks he's being outsmarted by Hitler. On July the 20th he sends for Sir Charles Portal, the Chief of Bomber Command, and he says to Sir Charles Portal, as we know from records from Command to the Air Ministry, "When is the earliest that you could launch a vicious air attack on Berlin?" Sir Charles Portal replies to Winston, "I'm afraid we can't do it now, not until September because the nights aren't long enough to fly from England to Berlin and back in the hours of darkness. September, perhaps, and in September we will have the first hundred of the new Sterling bombers ..." But he also says, "I warn you, if you do that, the Germans will retaliate. At present they're not bombing English targets, they're not bombing civilian targets at all and you know why. And if you bomb Berlin, then Hitler will retaliate against English civilian targets." And Churchill just twinkles when he gets this reply, because he knows what he wants.

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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby borjastick » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:38 am)

I'm not a student of this subject, but I think this is also nonsense. This is from the first item I googled up, it is a clip from Irving, on efforts by Hitler to make peace with Britain, and Churchill's efforts to thwart them, leading to the start of the civilian bombings ....


The London blitz bombings by the Luftwaffe were in 1940. The Dresden bombings were in 1945.
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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby SevenUp » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:02 am)

borjastick wrote:The London blitz bombings by the Luftwaffe were in 1940. The Dresden bombings were in 1945.


Dresden? Relevance - none.

I did a bit more googling .... here's a link to paper stating the revisionist position ....

http://www.codoh.com/newrevoices/nrcitybomb.html

Here is the relevant quote .....

On 25 August, (1940) 81 bombers made their night raids over Berlin, then on 6th September the Luftwaffe replied.

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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby borjastick » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:42 am)

The relevance to Dresden was outlined in my response to Truth. If indeed he did not mean the Dresden bombings then so be it. But the bottom line in terms of Hitler's affection towards the UK and as such hoping to keep UK out of the war in Europe was naive at best. It would appear that Hitler had great respect for Britain due to its history and heritage. But he miscalculated when he thought that UK would stay out of it. We always believe in freedom and a sense of justice and fair play. Hilter's invasions in 1939 provoked very real concern in the UK government. When Churchill was elected Hitler should have known that he was a fighter and would fight.

I do not condone bombings of civilians by either side, and made that clear. However Churchill was not a man to mess with and took the decision to bomb the Ruhr valley so as to mess up industrial germany. Don't forget that our BEF had taken a real kicking on the beaches at Dunkirk, 300,000 casualties, so Churchill knew the gloves were off.
Anyway this has slightly less than naff all to do with the holohoax.
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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby SevenUp » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:51 am)

borjastick wrote: However Churchill was not a man to mess with


Churchill was owned, literally, by the Jews ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jc9ltEIwpo

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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby Hannover » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:26 pm)

borjastick wrote:
The London blitz bombings by the Luftwaffe were in 1940. The Dresden bombings were in 1945.

This is quite misleading and does not indicate who started the civilian bombings.

The question of who started bombing civilians is easily answered. The British started it, it's not even close. German raids were many months later in response to British terror bombings. Hitler repeatedly asked the British to stop and pledged he would not initiate them. Of course the Jewish supremacists who dominate the 'mainstream' media will not permit the truth. So what else is new.

From a previous post.

- Hannover

Hannover wrote:The first civilian bombings were done by the British. This was long before the Germans were forced to retaliate. Read on.

- Hannover
http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/Churchill/ ... plies.html

..........the British, by their own admission, initiated unrestricted bombing of civilian areas ought to merit for them membership in the select society of "war criminals." The unbelieving reader need only consult the testimony of the British officials J. M. Spaight and Sir Arthur Harris, for incontrovertible proof of this charge.99 A decision of the British Air Ministry made on May 11, 1940, to attack targets in Western Germany instituted the practice of bombing purely civilian objectives. This "epoch-making event," as F. J. P. Veale correctly describes it, marked an ominous departure from the rule that hostilities are to be limited to operations against enemy military forces alone.100 Spaight, former Principal Secretary of the Air Ministry, makes the following amazing comment on the decision of May 11, 1940:
Because we were doubtful about the psychological effect of propagandist distortion of the truth that it was we who started the strategic bombing offensive, we have shrunk from giving our great decision of May 11, 1940, the publicity it deserves. That surely was a mistake. It was a splendid decision.101
But the "great decision," the "splendid decision" of May 11, 1940, which was ultimately to cost the lives of millions, including thousands of Mr. Spaight's own countrymen, was to have an even more grisly sequel, for, according to Sir Charles Snow who had charge of selecting scientific personnel for war research in Great Britain in World War II, F. A. Lindemann, a Cabinet member and confidant of Churchill, produced in early 1942 a remarkable Cabinet paper on the subject of the strategic bombing of Germany:
It described, in quantitative terms, the effect on Germany of a British bombing offensive in the next eighteen months (approximately March 1942-September 1943). The paper laid down a strategic policy. The bombing must be directed essentially against German working-class houses. Middle-class houses have too much space round them, and so are bound to waste bombs ...102
One wonders if it was the cultivated humanitarianism inherent in this decision to assure the death of more working class Germans per bomb which entitled the Allies, and in particular the British, to sit in moral judgment on German leaders at Nuremberg in 1946!
99. J. M. Spaight, Bombing Vindicated (London: Geoffrey Bles, Ltd., 1944) and Sir Arthur Harris, bomber Offensive (London: Collins, 1947).
100. F. J. P. Veale, Advance to Barbarism (Apppleton: C. C. Nelson Publishing Company, 1953), p. 122.
101. Spaight, op. cit., p. 7.
102. C. P. Snow, Science and Government (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1961), p. 48.

Letter to PBS on fraudulent 'documentary' about the 'Blitz'

Dr. A.R. WESSERLE
16 March 1981
PBS Television "The Blitz"

Sirs:

Rarely have I come across a television broadcast more vicious in intent and more warped in execution than your recent "Blitz on Britain." As a survivor of the mass air raid executed against my native city of Prague, Bohemia, on the Christian Holy Day of Palm Sunday, 1945, by the Anglo-American strategic bomber force - a raid that maimed or murdered thousands a few seconds before the conclusion of the Second World War - I say this:

1. There can be no comparison between the brutality of the Anglo-American bomber offensive, on one hand, and the minimality of the German-Italian efforts, on the other. As the commander of the British strategic air offensive, Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris shows in his Bomber Offensive (Macmillan, New York, 1947) 23 German cities had more than 60 percent of their built-up area destroyed; 46 had half of it destroyed. 31 communities had more than 500 acres obliterated: Berlin, 6427 acres: Hamburg, 6200 acres; Duesseldorf, 2003; Cologne (through air attack), 1994. By contrast, the three favorite targets of the Luftwaffe: London, Plymouth and Coventry, had 600 acres, 400, and just over 100 acres destroyed.

2. Anglo-American strategic bombers, according to official sources of the West German government in 1962, dropped 2,690,000 metric tons of bombs on Continental Europe; 1,350,000 tons were dropped on Germany within its 1937 boundaries; 180,000 tons on Austria and the Balkans; 590,000 tons on France; 370,000 tons on Italy; and 200,000 tons on miscellaneous targets such as Bohemia, Slovakia and Poland. By contrast, Germany dropped a total of 74,172 tons of bombs as well as V-1 and V-2 rockets and "buzz bombs" on Britain - five percent of what the Anglo-Saxons rained down on Germany. The Federal German Government has established the minimum count - not an estimate - of 635,000 German civilians were killed in France, Italy, Rumania, Hungary, Czecheslovakia, and elsewhere.

3. Both Germany and Britain initiated air raids on naval and military targets as of 3 September 1939. However, when the British attacks on port installations in Northern Germany ended in disaster, with a devastating majority of bombers downed - the Battle of the German Bight - Britain switched over to less costly night air raids on civilian targets such as Berlin and the Ruhr industrial region. By contrast, Germany replied in kind only in the winter months of 1940/41, a year later. Observers indubitably British, such as the late Labour Minister Crossman, the scientist and writer C.P. Snow, and the Earl of Birkenhead, have demonstrated that it was not Germany but Britain that, after May, 1940, unleashed an official policy of unrestricted and unlimited raids on civilian populations under its new Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, and his science advisor, Dr. Lindemann. Professor Lindemann, the later Viscount Cherwell, coolly calculated that, by using a force of 10,000 heavy bombers to attack and destroy the 58 largest German cities, one-third of the population of Germany would be "de-housed." The assumption, of course, also was that out of those 25-27 million homeless at least ten percent - 2.5 to 3 million people - would be killed. On this score alone, Winston Churchill and his advisors deserve to rank among the maddest mass murderers in history. In fact, as West German records show, 131 German towns were hit by heavy strategic raids. Only the courage of the Luftwaffe pilots, the effectiveness of the air defense network and the strength of the fire fighting organization worked together to prevent a bloodbath to the extent envisioned by the Prime Minister.

4. Blood baths did occur when conditions were right. When the Anglo-American bombing policy reached its first grand climax in a raid on Hamburg that stretched over several days and nights in July, 1943, a minimum of 40,000 to 50,000 civilians burned to death. With the defensive power of the Reich worn down in the second half of 1944 and in 1945, the Anglo-Saxons indulged in ever more massive extermination raids against Europe. Communities of little or no military value, even if attacked previously, were now pulverized, preferably under conditions of the utmost horror. Christian holy days, and dates and sites of famous art festivals were select occasions for raids. Many of the most beautiful cities of Europe and the world were systematically pounded into nothingness, often during the last weeks of the war, among them: Wuerzburg, Hildesheim, Darmstadt, Kassel, Nürnberg, Braunschweig. Little Pforzheim in south-west Germany had 17,000 people killed. Dresden, one of the great art centers and in 1945 a refuge for perhaps a million civilians, was decimated with the loss of at least 100,000 souls. Europe from Monte Cassino to Luebeck and Rostock on the Baltic, from Caen and Lisieux in France to Pilsen, Prague, Bruenn, Budapest and Bucharest reeled under the barbaric blows of the bombers.

5. Nor did the extermination raids stop with Europe. Cigar-chomping General Curtis LeMay demonstrated in. the Far East that record kills could be achieved without resort to atomic weapons. By applying the lessons learned in Europe to the wooden architecture of the Asian mainland and Japan he raised "fire storms" which surpassed even those of Hamburg, n Japanese civilians were killed through bombing. Millions of others fell victim to it, from Mukden, Manchuria, to Rangoon, Burma. It goes without saying that LeMay and his colleagues could not have carried out their campaigns of mass annihilation without the backing of the highest political leaders in the land. In fact, the United States Government had placed orders for the immediate development of four-engined, superheavy, very-long-range bombers (the XB 15, the B-17, the XB 19, the B-24 and the B-29) starting in 1934. Thus, the Roosevelt Administration had begun to lay plans for offensive, strategic, global war back in 1933, the year of its inception. With the later exception of Britain, none of the other "large" powers followed suit: neither France, Italy and Germany, nor Soviet Russia and Japan the latter with extensive holdings in the Pacific. These are sobering facts. PBS, with its record of fine programming, has much to lose if it insists on presenting biassed reports such as "Blitz on Britain" or "UXB." If you care to tap the unplumbed depths of sentimentality, envy and hatred, start a comic strip. In the meantime, we'll change channels.
Give poor Alistair Cooke, who has been mightily discomfited of late, a much-needed respite.

Sincerely, Dr. A.R. Wesserle

Source: Reprinted from The Journal of Historical Review, vol. 2, no. 4, pp. 381-384.

In addition:
“As early as 1953 H.M. Stationary Office published the first volume of a work ‘The Royal Air Force’, 1939-1945 entitled ‘The Fight at Odds’, a book described as “officially commissioned and based throughout on official documents which had been read and approved by the Air Ministry Historical Branch.” The author , Mr. Dennis Richards, states plainly the destruction of oil plants and factories was only a secondary purpose of the British air attacks on Germany which began in May 1940. The primary purpose of these raids was to goad the Germans into undertaking reprisal raids of a similar character on Britain. Such raids would arouse intense indignation in Britain against Germany and so create a war psychosis without which it is impossible to carry on a modern war. Mr Dennis Richards writes: “If the Royal Air Force raided the Ruhr, destroying oil plants with it’s most accurately placed bombs and urban property with those that went astray, the outcry for retalliation against Britain might prove too strong for the German generals to resist. The attack on the Ruhr, in other words, was an informal invitation to the Luftwaffe to bomb London “. p. 122

This passage merely confirmed what Mr. Spaight had so incautiously disclosed in 1944 in his by then forgotten book ‘Bombing Vindicated’. The popular belief that Hitler started unrestricted bombing still persisted and is, in fact, widely held at present day.

The third and last phase of the British air offensive against Germany began in March 1942 with the adoption of the Lindemann Plan by the British War Cabinet, and continued until the end of the war in May, 1945. The bombing during this period was not, as the Germans complained, indiscriminate. On the contrary, it was concentrated on working-class houses because, as professor Lindemann maintained, a higher percentage of bloodshed per ton of explosives dropped could be expected from bombing houses built close together, rather than by bombing higher class houses surrounded by gardens.”

source: ‘Advance to Barbarism - the Development of Total Warfare’, by F.J.P. Veale, p.184-185
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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby borjastick » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:42 pm)

Hannover, my earlier post covered all the bases.
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Re: New Books to be investigated

Postby mincuo » 7 years 5 months ago (Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:58 pm)

Sry for my bad English
Well I think that the question: “who started for first?” is important, but not so much. It was a war.
To me the Anglo-Americans deliberately performed the bombing of civilians. This is clear also from this minute of a telegram sent by Churchill to Sir Charles Portal (cited by Irving in the Dresden book):
“It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed. Otherwise we shall come into control of an utterly ruined land. We shall not, for instance, be able to get housing materials out of Germany for our own needs because some temporary provision would have to be made for the Germans themselves”.(London Public Record Office, Doc. CAB. 120/303)
May be the reason of massive civilian bombing (Lindemann plan) we have to see not expecially for evil reasons, but rather for the superiority of that kind of planes. Germans, for some reasons, did not develop high-altitude bombers.
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