67 years ago: A real Holocaust

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Clem
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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby Clem » 8 years 5 months ago (Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:52 pm)

Hans:

I challenge Mkk to prove that 100,000 (or whatever figure he thinks is true) people were killed by British or American bombs in Dresden. I also challenge him - with proof - to give a single name of a person who was killed by British or American bombs in Dresden.



What will you accept as proof Hans?

How much money will you give me if I can prove just 1/1,000 of 1 % of the alleged "killed by British or American bombs in Dresden?"

I would think that no less than $1,000.00 would show that you are serious.

Will you appoint David Irving as the sole arbiter of what meets the standards of proof for your challenge?

What do you say Hans? $1,000.00 for just 1/1,000 of 1% and David Irving as arbiter?

We will use David Irvings figures as our base for the 1/1,000 of 1%.

Is it a deal Hans?

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 5 months ago (Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:20 pm)

Hans wrote:[Revisionist mode]

I challenge Mkk to prove that 100,000 (or whatever figure he thinks is true) people were killed by British or American bombs in Dresden. I also challenge him - with proof - to give a single name of a person who was killed by British or American bombs in Dresden.



There is a memorial in the cemetery at Dresden which has lots of names on it of some of those who were identified and buried there ... all bombing victims. Do you think they made them up?? In fact, you can see it in this short video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqNSJ6Ua4J0 It's there right at the beginning, so you don't have to watch the whole thing if you don't want to.
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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby Kladderadatsch » 8 years 5 months ago (Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:05 am)

Carolyn Yeager wrote:There is a memorial in the cemetery at Dresden which has lots of names on it of some of those who were identified and buried there ... all bombing victims. Do you think they made them up?? In fact, you can see it in this short video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqNSJ6Ua4J0 It's there right at the beginning, so you don't have to watch the whole thing if you don't want to.


Image

WIEVIELE STARBEN? WER KENNT DIE ZAHL?
AN DEINEN WUNDEN SIEHT MAN DIE QUAL
DER NAMENLOSEN DIE HIER VERBRANNT
IM HOELLEN FEUER AUS MENSCHENHAND.

How many died? Who knows the toll?
In your black scars we see too well
The pain of all the nameless souls
Burned in that fiery manmade hell.

A simple bit of verse, really. My translation probably could be improved on, but the lines themselves don't offer much to work with.

Life in Germany must be full of little ironies, though. A look at the German Wikipedia page for the Dresden memorials turns up the fact that the memorial poem was written by one Max Zimmering, a Jewish Zionist Communist poet who spent the war years in exile writing agitprop against the National Socialists and then returned to Dresden, post-war, to take up his pen in the service of the newly installed Communist regime of the DDR. The sentiment is fine and all, but it's really not that great a poem. Kind of makes me wonder why it was chosen.

At any rate, the first line nicely ducks the issue: "How many died? Who knows?" That's the answer the DDR government has left the citizens of Dresden, carved in stone, courtesy of Max Zimmering.
Der grosse Kladderadatsch war da.

-- D. Eckart Der Bolschewismus von Moses bis Lenin, "Er"

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 8 years 5 months ago (Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:38 am)

Kladderadatsch wrote:
WIEVIELE STARBEN? WER KENNT DIE ZAHL?
AN DEINEN WUNDEN SIEHT MAN DIE QUAL
DER NAMENLOSEN DIE HIER VERBRANNT
IM HOELLEN FEUER AUS MENSCHENHAND.

How many died? Who knows the toll?
In your black scars we see too well
The pain of all the nameless souls
Burned in that fiery manmade hell.

A simple bit of verse, really. My translation probably could be improved on, but the lines themselves don't offer much to work with.

Life in Germany must be full of little ironies, though. A look at the German Wikipedia page for the Dresden memorials turns up the fact that the memorial poem was written by one Max Zimmering, a Jewish Zionist Communist poet who spent the war years in exile writing agitprop against the National Socialists and then returned to Dresden, post-war, to take up his pen in the service of the newly installed Communist regime of the DDR. The sentiment is fine and all, but it's really not that great a poem. Kind of makes me wonder why it was chosen.

At any rate, the first line nicely ducks the issue: "How many died? Who knows?" That's the answer the DDR government has left the citizens of Dresden, carved in stone, courtesy of Max Zimmering.


What amazing information! Oh, the treachery. Everywhere you turn in Germany, it's there. This is reminiscent of the poem added to the Statue of Liberty, in this case written by a Jewess, that welcomes the scum of the earth into the U.S. as if it is the wish of 'the people' rather than communist propaganda-warfare. Both these poems should be removed and replaced with something more appropriate, written by a true son or daughter of the land ... that is, a nationalist.

I agree with the author of this thread that holocaust revisionism should include pointing out the real holocausts in contrast to the 'holohoax', and there is no better example of a modern holocaust that the firestorm-bombing of all of Germany between summer 1942 and April 1945 by British & American air forces, which directly killed hundreds of thousands of valuable folk (the majority children and mothers) and indirectly, millions. That this slaughter was necessary to "win the war" cannot be supported and is pure hypocrisy and lies. The reason is found in the Unconditional Surrender demand for both Germany and Japan.
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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby The Warden » 8 years 1 month ago (Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:19 pm)

Lady Michelle Renouf discusses her latest film, Dresden Holocaust 1945, Why an Apology to Germany is Due.

Scroll down to 7-3-12
http://www.renseradioarchives.com/dduke/
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby Dresden » 8 years 1 month ago (Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:45 pm)

The Warden said:

"Lady Michelle Renouf discusses her latest film, Dresden Holocaust 1945, Why an Apology to Germany is Due"

Here is Lady Renouf's film on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sw4CVgZ ... iL2llvk1dQ

And a couple more Dresden films:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7-aqLf8 ... iL2llvk1dQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCPuIhVT ... iL2llvk1dQ
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby borjastick » 8 years 1 month ago (Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:47 am)

Steve, as a Brit I am aware of our dodgy past with regard to civilian bombings, particularly Dresden. I am not proud of it, and I suspect Winston Churchill wasn't either, which is why he said very little publicly in praise of our bomber command. The event in London last week with the new bomber command statue near Marble Arch in London was very well publicised by the media, but it did little to quell those who have serious reservations about the campaigns where many thousands of German civilians were killed deliberately.

Having said that the other side of the argument is that the death totals of Dresden were way off, and the real total was more like 20,000. A few years ago a piece of research was published by I think the current mayor of Dresden who said just this.

In my little opinion the US psyche warfare team were in full flow to keep attention on Europe while America prepared to bomb Japan with the Atom bomb. The revelations of shrunken heads, human skin lampshades and human soap, were designed to, of course, make old Jerry the Hun look like a total bag of shite, but also to keep attention on Europe.

Therefore the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the real holocaust of the second world war and as such totally unforgivable. Odd isn't then that these bombs and then the nuclear bombs etc were created by jews?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby Dresden » 8 years 1 month ago (Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:06 pm)

borjastick said:

"Steve, as a Brit I am aware of our dodgy past with regard to civilian bombings, particularly Dresden. I am not proud of it, and I suspect Winston Churchill wasn't either, which is why he said very little publicly in praise of our bomber command. The event in London last week with the new bomber command statue near Marble Arch in London was very well publicised by the media, but it did little to quell those who have serious reservations about the campaigns where many thousands of German civilians were killed deliberately.

Having said that the other side of the argument is that the death totals of Dresden were way off, and the real total was more like 20,000. A few years ago a piece of research was published by I think the current mayor of Dresden who said just this.

In my little opinion the US psyche warfare team were in full flow to keep attention on Europe while America prepared to bomb Japan with the Atom bomb. The revelations of shrunken heads, human skin lampshades and human soap, were designed to, of course, make old Jerry the Hun look like a total bag of shite, but also to keep attention on Europe.

Therefore the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the real holocaust of the second world war and as such totally unforgivable. Odd isn't then that these bombs and then the nuclear bombs etc were created by jews?"

You're free to believe any propaganda you want, borjastick, but I don't believe a word of it.
The Warden mentioned Lady Renouf's film, so I posted a link to it, and since the topic of the thread was the Dresden Holocaust, I posted a couple more videos; you're free to watch them or not at your leisure.

"the real total was more like 20,000. A few years ago a piece of research was published by I think the current mayor of Dresden who said just this"

The MAYOR of Dresden said that?.....oh, I didn't know that.....I'm convinced now.....the Mayor's word is just as good as that of a German Judge in my book!
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby borjastick » 8 years 1 month ago (Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:32 pm)

I don't know the real death toll from the Dresden bombings and I suspects you don't either. I am simply saying that there are two very different angles on this. If a German person of some standing says that he doubts the death toll of 200k and he has research to back it up, I would give him some credibility for saying something which no doubt would put him under pressure.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby Dresden » 8 years 1 month ago (Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:05 pm)

I repeat myself, borjastick.....you're perfectly free to believe any propaganda you want(no matter how harebrained it is), but I don't believe a word of it!

"If a German person of some standing says that he doubts the death toll of 200k and he has research to back it up, I would give him some credibility for saying something which no doubt would put him under pressure"

A German person of some standing?.....Of some standing in whose eyes?

"says that he doubts the death toll of 200k and he has research to back it up, I would give him some credibility for saying something which no doubt would put him under pressure"

PRESSURE?.....pressure from who?, some 90 year old Germans in a rest home?
He wouldn't have pressure, he would have praise from the current system in "Germany"!

I'm sorry, borjastick, but you and I see the world through different eyes; where I see black, you see white.....where I see darkness, you see light!
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby borjastick » 8 years 1 month ago (Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:17 am)

It's funny Steve that whilst you find it very easy to criticise me as being some sort of buffoon blinded by my own myopia, you haven't stated your position or given any evidence to back it up. If you cannot see that a German public official just a few years ago who criticises the official version of 200,000 dead killed by Allied bombing, isn't putting himself in a difficult position then maybe you simply don't want to open your eyes.

So then Stevie boy just what is your position, eh?
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby borjastick » 8 years 1 month ago (Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:32 am)

Now, more than 60 years later, it seems we must lower our estimates. After four years’ work, an impressive commission of German historians this week filed its report on this issue, and it seems that even the lowest figure so far accepted may be an overestimate. Drawing on archival sources, many never previously consulted, on burial records and scientific findings -- including street-by-street archaeological investigations -- plus hundreds of eye-witness reports, the “Dresden Commission of Historians for the Ascertainment of the Number of Victims of the Air Raids on the City of Dresden on 13/14 February 1945” has provisionally estimated the likely death-toll at around 18,000 and definitely no more than 25,000.

SPIEGEL ONLINE 10/2/2008

So there you have it an official report that concludes a maximum of 25,000 dead. Still an atrocity in my opinion and as I have said elsewhere some may not accept this figure. I don't know the truth either. So with no holocaust of the jews in the so called 'death camps' and no holocaust in Dresden that leaves Japan. I wonder if we will shortly see a report claiming that only 75 people were killed in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki....
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby Dresden » 8 years 1 month ago (Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:47 am)

Moderator.....I don't like being called Stevie boy!

borjastick said:

"you haven't stated your position or given any evidence to back it up"

Why would I need to give evidence to back up my position, when I haven't even stated it?
Last edited by Dresden on Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby Mkk » 8 years 1 month ago (Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:09 am)

Although I agree that the number of deaths is not known, I am highly skeptical of the 20,000 figure. It is universally accepted that the death toll of Hamburg was 45,000. It seems strange that a city with a similar population size or larger, hundreds of thousands of refugees and a less developed air raid system (because Dresden had barely been touched up to that point) that fell victim a simmiliar or even more severe fire storm would only suffer 2/5 of the deaths. Ofcourse, that is not a definite proof, but it is a logical objection.

For more, see under "total number of victims" here.

http://codoh.com/incon/inconabr_txt.html
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

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Re: 67 years ago: A real Holocaust

Postby Hannover » 8 years 1 month ago (Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:29 pm)

I think the International Red Cross assessment of 275,00 is probably the most accurate. They had no political agenda, no reason to construct false numbers one way or the other. Just as International Red Cross assessment of Auschwitz and other German labor camps does not fit the absurd manufactured storyline and agendas of those who profit from the lies.

The people / 'historians' changing the numbers all have agendas obvious through their political affiliation. Couldn't be more simply stated.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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