IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THIS:

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Goethe
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IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THIS:

Postby Goethe » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:57 pm)

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Our arguments are stronger than theirs, and if we stand up to them with confidence and tenacity, their posturing will be exposed. They might run away, or they might stay for the fight, but either way people will begin to see what they really are: liars.

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TruthSeeker
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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:11 pm)

Well, you're right - BUT, that can happen ONLY if we have freedom of speech, correct? It's one of those things without which intellectual discussions and proofs cannot be conducted.. :?

I am confident that we are on the side of the truth, but whether or not we can express that truth is the question. If we're all put in solitary confinement indefinitely, without any charges against us, WHAT can we do? Once we're silenced and there's no one to educate the future generations that what they are being taught are lies, how will they ever see the truth? :?:

And the internet makes it easier to spread politically incorrect material. But what if censorship hits the internet (as is the case in many countries)?

I realise I might not come across as the most optimistic person, but I am trying to be realistic... The issue of free speech is something that MUST be addressed and mobilised for.

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Sannhet
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Debate Smashes the Holocaust

Postby Sannhet » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:00 pm)

I am reminded of this picture from the Zundelsite:

Image

Freedom of speech is important, but the Holocaust story can be smashed regardless. All it takes is debate (real debate). The story can be easily torn to pieces in "an intellectual, up-front debate in a respected global forum. We want to bring our best minds and our strongest facts and spread them out before the world community to be judged on their merits. We invite the entrenched and powerful Holocaust Lobby to do likewise." (from Zundelsite again). With real debate, the House of Cards that is the Holocaust story will collapse faster than the Iraqi Army last year :)


Does anyone have any ideas as to how to achieve the debate that Zundel wants? It makes no difference how much free speech the governments of the world are willing to give the Revisionist heretics if the vast majority of people still think the Holocaust is Gas Chambers, Oskar Schindler, and Anne Frank.

If you ask me, strive for debate as a number one priority, not free speech. Because as Goethe says, "Our arguments are stronger than theirs". Then again, real debate is probably impossible without free speech :?

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TruthSeeker
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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:29 pm)

Then again, real debate is probably impossible without free speech

That's what I meant... :? It all comes back to the main issue, which is free speech. If we had MORE free speech and less censorship than we do now, it wouldn't have been such a big issue, and Zündel wouldn't have been where he is right now, and revisionism wouldn't have been considered close to heresy... :?

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:58 pm)

TruthSeeker wrote:
Then again, real debate is probably impossible without free speech

That's what I meant... :? It all comes back to the main issue, which is free speech. If we had MORE free speech and less censorship than we do now, it wouldn't have been such a big issue, and Zündel wouldn't have been where he is right now, and revisionism wouldn't have been considered close to heresy... :?
:? Unfotunately,free speach is a joke in America these days.The only thing keeping Americans from being put behind bars for refuting the holocaust mish mash is that pesky little constitutional right that gets in the way.Soon enough,the high court jews will have their way with that as well,as they have their way when they cry like babies about everything else.Revisionists need to get large numbers of members together and stage protest rallies.No one will know of the lies unless someone gives them the idea to think for themselves.We need to go out and spread the word,make noise and get people to listen.There has to be a firm commitment and a good number willing yo do this.

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TruthSeeker
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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:08 pm)

I agree that soon we probably won't have ANY right to even talk about this issue at all, but I'm not sure how protests could help. I'd say, more leafletting/postering, especially in academic environments (universities, colleges) would be better, if you compile some of the most important lies about the holocaust and mention a website address that they can browse and read if they are interested. You'd be surprised at how many people actually check out a website if you put a link on leaflets! Or at least they would've heard about it at any rate. I think that's the best way to do it; I don't think protests/rallies are feasible, because our numbers are small, and we're spread all over the world... But I might be wrong... I think we should stick more to the academic level. If we want to protest, we can surely protest against censorship, not against the lies/fraud regarding the "holocaust" (for above mentioned reasons.

Isn't giving out leaflets legal at universities? I see everyone doing it. But then again, I'm not so sure about Canada, if the contents (revisionism) lie under the hate crime laws or not... :? :?

But I'm certainly willing to do it; if there were enough (any) revisionists at the university I attend, I would've worked on getting some guest speakers and organising a forum debate, but then again, I'm not sure how that would work, as we know what happens to people who talk about it... :(

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:11 pm)

:) To Sannhet:jewish supremecists are going to avoid all debate.They have most public opinion in the palms of their hands.The only way is to force them into a debate,and the only way that will happen is if revisionists go out and make noise.Eventualy,our voices will be heard,if we are persistant,and they will be forced to defend their lies.All you have to do is plant a sead in the minds of the people to get them thinking.Why not?Judeo-supremecists have been very successful at it for a long time.When I went to see THE PASSION,I handed out flyers concearning Jewish supremecy.I was suprised at the amount of people that were already aware that it exists.All you have to do is push them a little further.

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TruthSeeker
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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:21 pm)

Yes, but jewish supremacy is more obvious than the "holocaust" fabrications, don't you think? The current state of affairs has informed a lot of people on the nature of jewish supremacy / zionism, but a lot of these people draw a big line at the "holocaust," because they don't think (or have never thought that) the holocaust is a zionist fabrication... I've dealt with a lot of such people, and what they argue is that the holocaust's "victims" were plain jews, not zionists, and that therefore it couldn't be a zionist fabrication or read that way anyway... They condemn the current zionist actions, but they also stand by the jews who claim that their parents/grandparents were "exterminated." Which is why we need to give out leaflets ON REVISIONISM, it would prove more effective. But not void of problems at the same time, legal problems, that is.. At least in Canada. Maybe if I could get some legal advice with regards to that, it would help clear up the doubts.. :?

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:48 pm)

TruthSeeker wrote:Yes, but jewish supremacy is more obvious than the "holocaust" fabrications, don't you think? The current state of affairs has informed a lot of people on the nature of jewish supremacy / zionism, but a lot of these people draw a big line at the "holocaust," because they don't think (or have never thought that) the holocaust is a zionist fabrication... I've dealt with a lot of such people, and what they argue is that the holocaust's "victims" were plain jews, not zionists, and that therefore it couldn't be a zionist fabrication or read that way anyway... They condemn the current zionist actions, but they also stand by the jews who claim that their parents/grandparents were "exterminated." Which is why we need to give out leaflets ON REVISIONISM, it would prove more effective. But not void of problems at the same time, legal problems, that is.. At least in Canada. Maybe if I could get some legal advice with regards to that, it would help clear up the doubts.. :?
:) My freind,your concearns about legalities are valid.You are absolutely right that there would be implications behind these actions.But their is a high price to pay for freedom.You have to be willing to go all the way.Being half hearted will keep you in the same place.For freedom,you must be willing to put your life on the line.I had a conversation about Judeo supremecy with a woman,a black woman,who announced to me she was a christain.She told me,"There's nothing you can do about it.Leave it alone,and pray to god for the sinners."In essence,she is telling me to run in the street and pray while turning a blind eye to injustice.Make like it doesn't exist.I told her,"Well,let's go back in time to where negroes were linched in america.In fact,let's go a little further up to the civil rights movement,and tell Dr. king to leave it alone because there is nothing you can do about it."Martin Luther King,Adolf Hitler ,Jesus,all put their lives on the line for the sake of their people.I would never want my children to think they should turn a blind eye to an injustice they have wittnessed.

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TruthSeeker
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Postby TruthSeeker » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:10 pm)

Oh, no, most definitely, the consequences are obviously going to be there, and it's a matter of whether or not you would put all you have on the line for the sake of truth, and I would. I am just saying that if we don't act carefully, we will all get arrested, and then who's going to continue the battle? We're living in a time that such things are happening and will surely happen. It's better to proceed more carefully by trying to wake up more people than to jump in and have a head-on collision and not be able to recover from it, for the sake of our cause at least. It wouldn't help if all the likes of Zündel are behind bars, does it? Maybe it would send a clear message to the people, but then again, what guarantees do you have that the 99% sheep who have been sleeping all along will wake up? The Jews will still be there, armed with their fabrications, hitting every dissenter on the head with a hammer. I'm just saying that we must work on a plan that would get us farther than that.

You are absolutely right about your example of the black liberation movement, but may I remind you that the number of revisionists is in no way comparable to the number of blacks who took part in the liberation movement. So while the two might be comparable in theory, they are not comparable in practice, or at least not in my opinion.

I think for now, we should cooperate with anti-censorship groups (there are lots of them out there), and do some lobbying with them, and in the meanwhile, we will still talk about revisionism and go on with what we were doing. And then we can get more organised. But the main problem facing us, in my opinion, is freedom of speech. It's the BIGGEST obstacle. And I believe we can overcome it; and if we don't, we can always face it...

I'm not sure if I got my point across... but that's my take on this.

This coming from someone who, for the longest time, bought the "holocaust" lies and even read the names of jewish victims of the "holocaust" on the commemoration day (I am not jewish)... Change is possible. Waking up the crowds is possible. I am trying to get my parents to read some revisionist material, so far are resisting, but I will keep on trying to educate them. Same with others.

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:18 pm)

:) To truthseeker;Good points,and all well taken.


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