busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

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Question Everything
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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Question Everything » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:03 am)

Hannover wrote:And, from:
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_ph.ph ... diaId=2476

Image
caption:
Soviet investigators (at left) view an opened grave at Babi Yar. Kiev, Soviet Union, 1944


The story goes that the Germans, under the command of SS Blobel, exhumed all the corpses, but here we supposedly have "Soviet investigators" exhuming them. A major, and laughable blunder by the Jewish supremacists.

Just another case of the liars not keeping their lies straight.

- Hannover

Completely mislabeled by the USHMM: it's a picture from Dobritski Yar, NOT Babi Yar.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... i-yar.html

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby borjastick » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:28 am)

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote:http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=18946&p=304020#p304020

:) :) :)

Jerzy


Two points:

Firstly reading skepticforum just reaffirms my thoughts that participating on such sites is a complete waste of time. They are full of idiots who couldn't rustle up two brain cells between them.

Secondly wherever the two pictures shown were taken is almost irrelevent. They are clearly staged and not one shot was fired. The so called bodies of the women are clean and without a wound among them. They have obviously been told to lie down and have done so in a very relaxed fashion. Contrived, falsified and probably done by Russians...
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:31 am)

"Firstly reading skepticforum just reaffirms my thoughts that participating on such sites is a complete waste of time. They are full of idiots who couldn't rustle up two brain cells between them."

Now I know:)
But somebody mentioned this website here and I went there to have a look.Mad house:)
I played a little joke on them with pictures and they fall for it .

Jerzy

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Bob » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:21 am)

Yes Borjastick, despite this I spent some time there, their knowledge and "research" is so bad that most of the time you must educate them about some basic things or correct their mistakes before you can really start some debate.

Matthew Ellard wrote:Jerzey is totally unaware that "Bob" the holocaust denier posted the same photos and tried the same trick before.


This is false accusation, I am not aware of using of these photos or some "tricks". This individual do not know how to solve problem of these photos posted by user Jerzy, (which are claimed to be from various places, thus refuting his Babi Yar claim based on nothing) and he speaks about some "tricks". Especially this user is classic example of poor research, he is usually capable of only copy/paste of some googled websites with testimonies, thus he often picks up blunders like false Fleming´s presentation of Prüfer´s interrogation by Smersch. What is more interesting, these blunders are then adopted by other individuals like Nick Terry and on these blunders they base their inventions. This thread, in which they do Auschwitz is especially interesting, they do not even know how alleged killing installation looks like or some basic things about construction.

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek wrote:I played a little joke on them with pictures and they fall for it .


This joke is very interesting experiment demonstrating approach of this individual, as can be seen he claimed without any reference that photos are from Babi Yar, but as known, these photos have at least two or three different captions, when he is confronted with this information about multiple captions, he do not know how to solve this serious problem which refutes his Babi Yar claim and thus he resorts to foul language and dodging to cover fundamental problem of these photos - nobody knows their date, location or origin.

What is the most fascinating is how he finally "solved" problem, he simply claims that photos show shooting in Babi Yar and Misocz (or Mizocz) as well:

Matthew Ellard wrote:You have now shown photographic evidence that the germans were shooting Jews in both Babi Jar AND Mizocs. Well that sort of backfired on you.


It does not matter how many captions some photo has, for this individual, these photos show murder from all claimed locations.

I am sorry for off topic, falsehoods one skeptic forum maybe deserve separate thread.

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Question Everything » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:10 am)

Speaking of fakery, does anyone have more info where and when the famous "Johannes Hähle" pictures first appeared in colour? I found it mentioned on this forum using the search feature that all of his other photographs were in black and white, which intrigued me. Then I came across this seemingly non revisionism associated blog:

The photos were taken on the next day, October 1. We see no executions on them, just German soldiers searching for valuables in the piles of clothes, Soviet prisoners of war covering with earth the bottom of the ravine, and dead people laying on the streets of Kiev, who could not keep up with the march. Neither their source, nor their author is indicated. But whoever saw the Wehrmacht exhibition in Berlin – opened first in 1995, stirring a great debate, following which it was reorganized in 2000, and since then is open in the Deutsches Historisches Museum –, may remember, that some of the pictures were on display in black and white, under the name of Johannes Hähle.

As a honest war correspondent, Hähle handed over all his photos to the Propagandakompanie. According to the records of the PK, on 30 September 1941 he delivered 108 photos with the title "“insatz im Osten”, and on 13 October 7 further photos entitled “Umfassungsschlacht ostw. Kiew”. However, the Baby Yar film roll was not among them. Neither two other rolls, whose existence was discovered only much later.

The Spiegel’ question concerning the authorship and date of the pictures were answered much later by the director of the Archiv des Hamburger Instituts für Sozialforschung, Reinhard Schwarz, who recognized in them the photos of two further rolls by Johannes Hähle preserved by them. The pictures were hitherto unpublished, and Schwarz assumed that the copies uploaded to the net were made when the photos were lent some years ago to Kharkov for a city history exhibition.

The three rolls which Hähle never handed over to the PK had a long way to the archiv of Hamburg. The widow of Hähle sold them in 1954 to the Berlin journalist Hans Georg Schulz, who tried to publish them a number of times, but he was always refused by the editors who supposed that they would sensitively affect the German public. Finally the widow of Schulz sold them in 2000 to the institute of Hamburg who exposed the black and white copies of some of the color photos on the Wehrmacht exhibition. All the pictures of the roll – and not only the ten ones which now appeared on the Russian sites, but twenty-nine – were finally published in color on the Aktion Reinhard Camps site. We also take them over from there together with their captions.
http://riowang.blogspot.be/2011/09/joha ... y-yar.html

So it seems Johannes Hähle was not only at Babi Yar, but also at Kharkov near Dobrisky Yar, where just like in Babi Yar, 33,000 were killed in a ravine (depending on the version of both stories). A neat coincidence, I guess 33,000 is a popular figure too. There is nothing wrong with restoring WWII photographs and film in colour, as long as this is mentioned. Did Nick Terry's former pals at deathcamp.org engage in some trickery? I am hence very intrigued as to where and when these photos first appeared in colour.

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Question Everything » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:04 am)

Oops... Caught red handed:

http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/pi ... ijar04.jpg

It may not be on this page:

http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/babi%20yar.html

Doesn't mean it can't be found.

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:37 pm)

Question Everything wrote:
Hannover wrote:And, from:
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/media_ph.ph ... diaId=2476

Image
caption:
Soviet investigators (at left) view an opened grave at Babi Yar. Kiev, Soviet Union, 1944


The story goes that the Germans, under the command of SS Blobel, exhumed all the corpses, but here we supposedly have "Soviet investigators" exhuming them. A major, and laughable blunder by the Jewish supremacists.

Just another case of the liars not keeping their lies straight.

- Hannover

Completely mislabeled by the USHMM: it's a picture from Dobritski Yar, NOT Babi Yar.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... i-yar.html


Actually, it's a still from the film you yourself linked to about Khmelnitski Proskurov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4agw5_oi%20...%20W4EO1w1xm0 around 3m45s. Are they different names from the same place?

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Question Everything » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:51 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:Actually, it's a still from the film you yourself linked to about Khmelnitski Proskurov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4agw5_oi%20...%20W4EO1w1xm0 around 3m45s. Are they different names from the same place?

The film I linked to is about Dobritski Yar near Kharkov, not Khmelnitski Proskurov. The "picture"/painting of the naked bodies of "Khmelnitski Proskurov" reminded me of that video. The shape of the ditch looks a bit similar like the one in the video I linked to. My speculation is it might be a still from a larger movie made at Dobritski Yar, with naked bodies painted over real ones. That's why I was asking for more info on that "picture".

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Raymond » 7 years 7 months ago (Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:32 pm)

I found an uncropped version of the original two fake photos in question. The bottom portion certainly looks similar to the Babi Yar we have all come to know and love but with a good deal more snow cover. If we look at a map of Kiev, this picture appears to be orientated with east at the top of the image, showing the Dnieper running along the upper half. This does look to be of the Babi Yar ravine when compared to contemporary maps but was clearly taken at a different time of year than the aerial shot we are used to seeing.
Attachments
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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Hannover » 7 years 7 months ago (Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:07 pm)

Well, that photo looks a bit more like Babi Yar, maybe.

I think they were hoping people didn't realize that this was snow, but was disturbed, denuded soil. Therefore they could say 'Look, see the area with all this activity from the Nazis'; which of course there would be a lot of visible activity if the story was true.
As I've said, these people are really not very smart, otherwise they wouldn't have make up such easily shot down nonsense.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Jerzy Ulicki-Rek » 7 years 7 months ago (Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:08 pm)

Just for record:
http://www.skepticforum.com
blocked my access to forum.
Jerzy

For the record:
Are you using your login name or your screen name? You set your login name as

Jerzy-Ulicki-Rek

Which is slightly different from your screen name.

If you are still unable to log in, please notify me immediately.

Jim Dominic
Forum Administrator

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 3:03 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Hello truth seekers.
> I can't log in in to this forum.
> Wonder:why?
> Jerzy
.......

After the e-mail exchange I 've got the access.
Jerzy

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Question Everything » 7 years 3 months ago (Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:52 am)

I read this paper on Babi Yar at the USHMM:

http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/pu ... /paper.pdf

A reference is given to La Stampa. Fortunately, that paper puts its archive freely available online:

http://www.archiviolastampa.it/componen ... _22221562/

In the article I find an interesting statement that the GPU had evacuated the jews, while it is traditionally claimed that the jews didn't have time to flee because of the rapidly advancing Germans. Anyone has more info on this?

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Hohenems » 7 years 3 months ago (Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:58 pm)

There's a ton of literature out there on this. It's pretty much assumed at this point that this is where the majority of the Jews not taken into German custody ended up. Formerly Soviet Central Asia is thick with Ashkenazi Jews. Where do you think they came from?

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Hannover » 7 years 3 months ago (Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:29 pm)

Hohenems wrote:It's pretty much assumed at this point that this is where the majority of the Jews not taken into German custody ended up.

So then Hohenems, what do you think happened to the 'Jews taken into German custody'? Please be specific.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: busted: fake pics of Babi Yar from U.S. Holo. Museum

Postby Hohenems » 7 years 3 months ago (Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:40 pm)

I have no idea what happened to them after they went to camps. I assume they emigrated.


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