ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controversies

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ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controversies

Postby RJJJr » 6 years 8 months ago (Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:10 am)

All, check out the link yourself!

http://deathcamps.org/editorial2013.html

Here is the article:



ARC EDITORIAL

APRIL 2013



Holocaust Revisionism and Controversial Hate Blogs



Many people may have read the recent article on the Holocaust Denial website Olodogma by Jurgen Graf, Thomas Kues and Carlo Mattogno in their partial response to the Holocaust Controversies group who produced a paper attacking them in December 2011.



We will not name the individuals concerned, they do not need any publicity from us.



As this website, http://www.deathcamps.org was mentioned in their partial response, we feel it is only right they we put the record straight in this editorial edition.



When we started developing the Aktion Reinhard Camps website in 2002 we thought it would be a robust bastion against Holocaust Denial and we hope it will always be so. The website in three short years was a pioneering and much-loved body of work, thanks to the original members of good faith and standing, and disregarding those contributors of ill-repute (i.e. Michael Peters), who played a major role in this website being vandalized and counterfeited back in 2006.



So that said, imagine the irony to find that our website has been quoted by a leading Holocaust Denier in their counter-attack on the Holocaust Controversies group. Mattogno also makes the claims that we abhor the Holocaust Controversies group because they use foul language and we shy away from debating the Holocaust because we are frightened of opening up a Pandora's box that we couldn’t defend. He isn’t quite right on either counts.



First of all we are not frightened of debate with Holocaust Deniers, if they could convince us that it is a debate worth dedicating our time to. We are light-years apart on how we perceive the Holocaust. Our view is that the Holocaust happened, there is no controversy, and there is simply too much robust evidence which renders any such debate as completely meaningless. The website is a clear statement of our beliefs and we are proud to stand up and be counted as those who believe in the Holocaust and we honour those who were victims of the evil designs of the Nazis.



If any Holocaust Denier thinks they can rise to this challenge, they can write to me at [email protected] holocaustresearchproject.org. - My secretary will pass it on to me. We can guarantee that whilst we might not agree, we will strive to be polite, and respectful of free speech, and happy to debate, if the merits are proven.



In respect of the Holocaust Controversies group, it is true in their blogs they use foul language, but to be frank this is one of their lesser shortcomings, they cannot help this, and like awkward teenagers (although they are middle-aged men), maybe it is something they will grow out of.



We have an understandable dislike of this rather odious group, because of what their members have done, not what they say. They were responsible for producing countless fakes and forgeries, which they tried to implant on the http://www.deathcamps.org website. They did this over a number of years, long before they applied for membership to our team, courtesy of Michael Peters, and later during their probationary membership period. Even going so far as to mastermind a devious approach of mixing fakes and forgeries with genuine items, in a way that would be difficult to detect.



We managed to identify and contain the vast majority of these fakes and forgeries, like the forged Feix photograph from the website, sadly one or two of the higher quality fakes slipped through the net. We have removed false ID cards of Sobibor and Treblinka personnel and the fake Munzberger statement about Treblinka.It is our intention to fully re-build this website, following the shameful vandalism in 2006, but that has, and will continue to take some time.



The Holocaust Controversies purveyors of poison spin some story on their blog, but they conveniently leave out the part they played in the demise of ARC. Some researchers and historians they are?



They would appear to be tellers of half-truths and lies they seem to be masters at spreading hate and are not fit to represent anyone. They boasted about their exploits on RODOH, another hate-filled website, but they ensured that crashed into the ether when it became too incriminating for them. They have spread their poison far beyond their own blog, and can never be trusted by serious historians and researchers on the Holocaust.



Approach them with caution, if you must approach them at all.



Many will ask the obvious question, how can anti-Revisionists attack Holocaust Memorial websites like ARC, and the Holocaust Education and Research Team (H.E.A.R.T.) without betraying themselves?



Whose side are they really on?


Certainly not the side of truth.



A Holocaust Memorial website has been used to discredit Holocaust Controversies, are we concerned? Saddened maybe, not concerned. To be honest they brought it all on themselves, and they deserve all the suffering that is linked with their despicable behaviour. We would hope Holocaust Controversies would not link our ARC pages to any articles they cut and paste together in the future, but they are hardly the standard bearers of good behaviour.



In conclusion, regarding the Holocaust Controversies blog, the revisionists sadly have gotten it right.



The Action Reinhard Camps Trustees


WOW!
- Robert James Jones Jr.

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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby Jim Voss » 6 years 8 months ago (Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:43 pm)

This is so insulting on so many levels:

As this website, http://www.deathcamps.org was mentioned in their partial response, we feel it is only right they we put the record straight in this editorial edition.

When we started developing the Aktion Reinhard Camps website in 2002 we thought it would be a robust bastion against Holocaust Denial and we hope it will always be so. The website in three short years was a pioneering and much-loved body of work, thanks to the original members of good faith and standing, and disregarding those contributors of ill-repute (i.e. Michael Peters), who played a major role in this website being vandalized and counterfeited back in 2006.

So that said, imagine the irony to find that our website has been quoted by a leading Holocaust Denier in their counter-attack on the Holocaust Controversies group. Mattogno also makes the claims that we abhor the Holocaust Controversies group because they use foul language and we shy away from debating the Holocaust because we are frightened of opening up a Pandora's box that we couldn’t defend. He isn’t quite right on either counts.

First of all we are not frightened of debate with Holocaust Deniers, if they could convince us that it is a debate worth dedicating our time to. We are light-years apart on how we perceive the Holocaust. Our view is that the Holocaust happened, there is no controversy, and there is simply too much robust evidence which renders any such debate as completely meaningless. The website is a clear statement of our beliefs and we are proud to stand up and be counted as those who believe in the Holocaust and we honour those who were victims of the evil designs of the Nazis.

If any Holocaust Denier thinks they can rise to this challenge, they can write to me at [email protected] holocaustresearchproject.org. - My secretary will pass it on to me. We can guarantee that whilst we might not agree, we will strive to be polite, and respectful of free speech, and happy to debate, if the merits are proven.


Has Webb and/or Liscotto ever tried to defend their beliefs and claims here at CODOH under their own names?

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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby Moderator » 6 years 8 months ago (Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:26 pm)

Jim Voss:
We need more content in your above post.
What's "insulting" about it? Insulting to who? Revisonists? The 'Holocaust Controversies' site? RODOH? Please be specific.
Thanks.
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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby Hannover » 6 years 8 months ago (Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:41 pm)

Perhaps Jim Voss meant something like this.

from ARC:
If any Holocaust Denier thinks they can rise to this challenge, they can write to me at [email protected] holocaustresearchproject.org. - My secretary will pass it on to me. We can guarantee that whilst we might not agree, we will strive to be polite, and respectful of free speech, and happy to debate, if the merits are proven.

IOW, ARC will play judge & jury and decide unilaterally if Revisionist arguments warrant a response.

My question to them is:
If they are so "happy to debate", then here we are, why don't they show up and debate Revisionists at this forum? I sense they know they will be utterly demolished, as have all the other True Believers.

The tide is turning.

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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby Balsamo » 6 years 8 months ago (Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:26 pm)

RJJJR speech sounds familiar, doesn't it ?

Very few people, especially here on Codoh, are obsessed like this with this silly dispute between members of what used to be a Holocaust memorial site. Still every now and then, a new member comes up and keep rolling and rolling...Posting new subjects on and on over the very same thing...

I am Wondering who he could be? :?

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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby Haldan » 6 years 8 months ago (Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:40 pm)

For me, that is of little interest — what does interest me, however, is that these history gangsters (Nick Terry, Sergey Romanov and Roberto Muehlenkamp, and so forth) are disdained even by their own "colleagues" in the "Holocaust community" :P
That aside, I find the preview to be quite damning against the business set up by the three persons I mentioned earlier in my post. Dr Nicholas Terry receives a lesson by Jürgen Graf.

-haldan


Balsamo wrote:I am Wondering who he could be? :?
<?php if ($Holocaust == false ) {deny_repeatedly(); } else { investigate(); } ?>
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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby Jim Voss » 6 years 8 months ago (Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:35 pm)

Moderator:

Jim Voss:
We need more content in your above post.
What's "insulting" about it? Insulting to who? Revisonists? The 'Holocaust Controversies' site? RODOH? Please be specific.
Thanks.
M1


Sure, I just wanted to get my post up first. Here goes.

When we started developing the Aktion Reinhard Camps website in 2002 we thought it would be a robust bastion against Holocaust Denial and we hope it will always be so. The website in three short years was a pioneering and much-loved body of work...


First off, they don't even know the correct spelling of the camps they claim to be experts on!

And if their website is such a "robust bastion against Holocaust Denial," then why don't they defend what they have on the site? Doesn't sound like they have much confidence in their work, does it?

And a "much-loved body of work"? Can you believe that? Loved by who? Now that isn't insulting per se, but it sure is funny. These guy should go into standup.

So Webb and Liscotto claim to have a "much-loved body of work" that is supposedly "a robust bastion against Holocaust Denial" but they refuse to defend their claims here under their own names. (Or anywhere else that I'm aware of.) However, threads like this one get started all the time. So why isn't all that time and energy used to defend their beliefs? If they can't defend what they claim is true, then it's nothing but propaganda. And that makes Webb and Liscotto charlatans, not historians, and their website a sham.

And that's just part of what I considered insulting. (I will continue with this later.)

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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby Jim Voss » 6 years 8 months ago (Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:31 pm)

My problem with this "editorial" / Webb and Liscotto can be boiled down to these two paragraphs:

First of all we are not frightened of debate with Holocaust Deniers, if they could convince us that it is a debate worth dedicating our time to. We are light-years apart on how we perceive the Holocaust. Our view is that the Holocaust happened, there is no controversy, and there is simply too much robust evidence which renders any such debate as completely meaningless. The website is a clear statement of our beliefs and we are proud to stand up and be counted as those who believe in the Holocaust and we honour those who were victims of the evil designs of the Nazis.

If any Holocaust Denier thinks they can rise to this challenge, they can write to me at [email protected] holocaustresearchproject.org. - My secretary will pass it on to me. We can guarantee that whilst we might not agree, we will strive to be polite, and respectful of free speech, and happy to debate, if the merits are proven.


Not frightened?

Since 2002, how many times have Webb and Liscotto defended what they claim is true on their website?

And why the constant use of the dishonest term "holocaust denier"? I'm not "denying" a GD thing. I'm here because of all the really good questions that I see go unanswered. I'd like to see Webb and Liscotto defend their claims by answering all those good questions.

Is that asking too much? What am I supposed to think when instead of answers, Webb and Liscotto only reply with insults? If holocaust claims can't be defended, then they can't be considered to be true.

It's as simple as that.

My opinion is they are frightened.

Very very frightened.

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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby Hannover » 6 years 8 months ago (Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:27 pm)

Balsamo wrote:RJJJR speech sounds familiar, doesn't it ?

Very few people, especially here on Codoh, are obsessed like this with this silly dispute between members of what used to be a Holocaust memorial site. Still every now and then, a new member comes up and keep rolling and rolling...Posting new subjects on and on over the very same thing...

I am Wondering who he could be? :?

Balsamo, a proselytizer of the standard storyline may wish this little drama would disappear or go unnoticed for reasons that suit a 'holocaust' proselytizer's agenda.

It demonstrates the mental instability and vile behavior of those that want to force the impossible and absurd 'holocaust' storyline down everyone's throat. Seeing them act in such clearly neurotic ways is a clear indicator of the dysfunctional / underhanded methods and lack of credibility of those behind the forced acceptance of impossible 'history'. The Jewish supremacists have clearly shot themselves in the foot. I suggest it's a cry for help.

I thanks those who brought this story to light.

The tide is turning.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby RJJJr » 6 years 8 months ago (Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:21 am)

I think the only one who got it right in this thread is Haldan.

The focus I made was that the ARC people hold the Holocaust Controversies charlatans with disdain.

This was the key point of the ARC article, and Webb or the ARC people who wrote it, even emphatically state in the case of MGK, that the revisionists got it right.

However, instead of attacking ARC, if you want to debate them, take them up on the offer. They put the offer out there.

Regarding the ARC site as being much loved, certainly they get thousands of visitors (Internet rankings and positive feedback show that) but that is subjective to your view. It is doubtful any revisionist holds much love for the ARC website.

But again, the main point I am expressing is specifically regarding the Holocaust Controversies nonsense and shoddy cut/paste crap that Terry, Romanov, and Muehlenkamp are trying to pass off as off as research.

Both revs/ARC are in agreement.


P.S I think the ARC article also shows where Webb admits there have been mistakes on the ARC website and that they are continually attempting to correct and improve it.

Most importantly they come clean on the fake Holocaust documents and counterfeit photos produced by Sergey Romanov, Nick Terry, and Roberto Muehlenkamp, they also admit they were duped by these charlatans and their website tainted when the HC guys were able to infiltrate their group.

I think that shows a lot in their character as doing their best to make improvements and get things right.
- Robert James Jones Jr.

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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby Balsamo » 6 years 8 months ago (Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:53 am)

Hannover wrote:
Balsamo wrote:RJJJR speech sounds familiar, doesn't it ?

Very few people, especially here on Codoh, are obsessed like this with this silly dispute between members of what used to be a Holocaust memorial site. Still every now and then, a new member comes up and keep rolling and rolling...Posting new subjects on and on over the very same thing...

I am Wondering who he could be? :?

Balsamo, a proselytizer of the standard storyline may wish this little drama would disappear or go unnoticed for reasons that suit a 'holocaust' proselytizer's agenda.

It demonstrates the mental instability and vile behavior of those that want to force the impossible and absurd 'holocaust' storyline down everyone's throat. Seeing them act in such clearly neurotic ways is a clear indicator of the dysfunctional / underhanded methods and lack of credibility of those behind the forced acceptance of impossible 'history'. The Jewish supremacists have clearly shot themselves in the foot. I suggest it's a cry for help.

I thanks those who brought this story to light.

The tide is turning.

- Hannover



Personnally, i don't give a dam on those things...I personnally don't support "Memorial History" defended by mister Webb and friends, and would add that this silly attitude of theirs is one of the main responsible for you fighting the so-called storyline.
Memorial history is not history, it is the product of the "Holocaust industry", which has created the storyline. If Roberto, Nick Terry (his main target) and... well myself are "Believers", those guys are the "POPES"...His/their victims are at least listening and debating with revisionist - even if sometimes with bad manners - Those guys don't and won't ever! For them, you are just insane criminals who don't diserve even a blink of an eye!

I am not a religious person, and i guess in modesty that one cannot say that i have bad manners. (neither does Nick Terry by the way)

I don't care if this story goes unoticed or not...It DIDN'T since a long time ago...So we know the story...
Now it is time that you guys from ARC and deathcamp.org leave it behind and start reconstructing your site which looks cheap and badly sourced.

But no, He/they just keep insulting and accusating other individuals - anonymously for how many years now ? This is called difamation. If he has real proofs and suffered a real damage, the he should hire a lawyer and go to court. Nick Terry is not hiding and easy to find, Roberto does not hide behind a pseudo.
But he/they don't do it.
The very point is we should just don't care, It is not our problem, it is of no importance in the debate!
but this individual just keep on polluating forums with his obsession.

What is the pertinence of the title he gave to his subject and its content? nothing, nada...
Oh yes, here is the peace of information

Mattogno also makes the claims that we abhor the Holocaust Controversies group because they use foul language
-

Yeah, that is great info!

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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby RJJJr » 6 years 8 months ago (Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:59 am)

Balsamo,
if the ARC people want to go after the HC people for their crimes, that is their business not mine.

I am simply referencing the editorial the ARC people wrote relating to the Mattogno piece.

I think the Nick Terry, Sergey Romanov, Roberto Muehlenkamp controversy needs to be exposed for what it is.

Three guys who tried to make a name for themselves on the Internet, and did it by engaging in fakes and forgeries and this has done a lot to help revisionists and hurt the believers.

This is an important fact in the Holocaust debate and should be well documented and become widespread knowledge.

Just because you worship those guys doesn't absolve their clearly despicable actions.

ARC says they agree with the revisionists on this matter.
- Robert James Jones Jr.

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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby Hannover » 6 years 8 months ago (Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:45 pm)

RJJJr said:
However, instead of attacking ARC, if you want to debate them, take them up on the offer. They put the offer out there.

I call BS on that.
Here we are, a debate forum for over a decade, open to all who adhere to very basic guidelines, and they want Revisionists to send an email on a particular position to their 'secretary'. That is not debate. That is picking and choosing which argument to reply to without there being a debate open to others. They will not be compelled to answer logically, rationally, without dodging, obfuscation, and without strawman arguments. IOW, they can simply say 'this is our position and we win'.

And, in every instance of the positions they take on their site regarding the laughable 'holocaust' storyline we have already demolished their claims, one by one. Where are they in trying to respond to what we have already refuted? Really quite simple.

Give me a break RJJJr.

- Hannover
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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby RJJJr » 6 years 8 months ago (Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:56 pm)

Hannover,
take the matter up with them not me. I am just posting a thread on what I feel is an interesting topic.
I don't work for ARC and have no input in who, what, where or how they debate.

Have you ever communicated with them? You seem to speak as if you have some past experience, or is that just an assumption?

All I know is they did offer a mechanism to debate, why not contact them and extend an invite to CODOH.
- Robert James Jones Jr.

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Re: ARC says Mattogno got it right about Holocaust Controver

Postby Hannover » 6 years 8 months ago (Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:07 pm)

RJJJr:
Please recall that I quoted your opinion on the matter.
However, instead of attacking ARC, if you want to debate them, take them up on the offer. They put the offer out there.

I am simply telling you why their position on debate is a bogus one. They know this forum is here. What are they afraid of?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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