the 'vergasungskeller' note

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the 'vergasungskeller' note

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:51 am)

There is a typed memorandum from SS Bischoff which mentions a temporary "vergasungskeller" in one of the rooms of Crematorium II of Auschwitz/Birkenau in January 1943, but there is no indication that a homicidal gas chamber is referred to. The 'holocaust' Industry tries to maintain that this note is a big deal, that it proves 'gassings' at Auschwitz.

Wrong.

- In a number of other documents, "vergasungen" refers to disinfestation and/or fumigation measures.

- The document was written two months before the ovens became operative and the elevator was installed, so it is unlikely that the document refers to killing, because the alleged victims would have had to have been carried up the stairs and taken to another crematorium for body disposal, which does not make sense. IF there was an operational homicidal facility, why not bring the victims there to begin with?

- There is no corroborating physical/forensic evidence, no corroborating testimony that makes any sense & does not contradict, and there are perfectly reasonable explanations outside of any unsubstantiated, evil scenario.

- And curiously about Bischoff's note, SS Bischoff was not prosecuted.
Here's a man who was a Nazi from the very beginning, and officer in the SS, who supervised all the building, wrote the "Vergasungskeller" letter and much else besides, who would know better than anyone what was going on in the construction end, and yet he was never even arrested.

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Re: the 'vergasungskeller' note

Postby aemathisphd » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:07 am)

Hannover wrote:- In a number of other documents, "vergasungen" refers to disinfestation and/or fumigation measures.


In a number of other documents, vergasungen also means "to kill with gas." But let's begin with your assertion. What document(s) are you referring to?

- The document was written two months before the ovens became operative and the elevator was installed, so it is unlikely that the document refers to killing, because the alleged victims would have had to have been carried up the stairs and taken to another crematorium for body disposal, which does not make sense. IF there was an operational homicidal facility, why not bring the victims there to begin with?


Untrue. From the memo itself:

Krematorium II has been completed but for minor details, thanks to employing all available forces, despite enormous difficulties and freezing weather, using day and night shifts. The furnaces have been lit in the presence of Herr Chief Engineer Prufer of the firm responsible for their construction, Topf & Sons of Erfurt, and they function perfectly. Because of the frost, it has not yet been possible to remove the formwork from the ceiling of the corpse cellar. This is of no consequence, however, as the gassing cellar can be used to this end.


Whoops!

- There is no corroborating physical/forensic evidence, no corroborating testimony that makes any sense & does not contradict, and there are perfectly reasonable explanations outside of any unsubstantiated, evil scenario.


No, there are simply at least 100 different people that have given accounts that the very room being referred to here -- the "morgue" in Krema II -- was a gas chamber. And there's the cyanide on the walls. And in the ventilation ducts.

- And curiously about Bischoff's note, SS Bischoff was not prosecuted.


Not really. It was an internal memo. It's not as if he was writing a letter to Der Tag or blabbing to his non-SS friends in Berlin. Max Tauebner, on the other hand, *did* blab to his friends about mass killing, and he *was* prosecuted.

Here's a man who was a Nazi from the very beginning, and officer in the SS, who supervised all the building, wrote the "Vergasungskeller" letter and much else besides, who would know better than anyone what was going on in the construction end, and yet he was never even arrested.


Which proves nothing one way or the other.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:05 am)

I note that the mention of corroborating physical evidence was ignored. Why? None there, that's why.

As for 'Vergassung', it was commonly used for delousing, ex.:

- See "Erläuterungsbericht über den Bau des KGL Birkenau" of October 30th 1941 where the delousing huts are mentioned as "Vergasungsraum" ( Auschwitz: Das Ende einer Legende. Historisch-technische Überlegungen by Carlo Mattogno)

- the Hoess special order, the Kremer diary, all use "Vergasung" in a non-homicidal context.

There are no documents which show 'vergasung' as meaning homicidal gassing...and none have been produced, ofcourse.

aemathisphd tries to say the crematorium was finished and ready for mass murder by gassing Jews in the morgue ... when the marketed story itself says that gassings did not start there until months later....oops.

I also notice that aemathisphd claims 'eyewitnesses':
...there are simply at least 100 different people that have given accounts that the very room being referred to here -- the "morgue" in Krema II -- was a gas chamber

Curious, he has failed to start a thread on any of them, or even mention in this thread who supposedly said what. Not convincing at all. Saying so doesn't make it so. I challenge him to start a thread on these 'eyewitnesses'. I'll wait.

He mentions cyanide residue.
more problems for him, as shown in
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267
There is no vast residue which supports the fantasy of homicidal gassings. The residue that is there is extremely slight and is indicative of occasional delousing. All buildings were subject to delousing. Ahem.

And aemathisphd tries a strawman by saying that since ventilation was available, it somehow proves 'gassings'. It was German law that ALL morgues be euipped with ventilation. Oops again. Was it as is alleged in the'holocaust' story? Nope, not close.
see again:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267
and:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=307
and:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=930


aemathisphd simply dodges the fact that the author of the letter (Bischoff) was not prosecuted, yet aemathisphd claims that hundreds of thousands of people were gassed here and Bischoff knowingly constructed the facilities that were used. That dog don't hunt.

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Postby rrohde » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:16 am)

Being German, "Vergasung" is indeed a term that in modern times is more or less ONLY associated with the alleged holocaust anymore. But that's not the original meaning.

Examples :
-Vergasung could mean when a chemical changing it's state from solid to gas.
-Vergasung is also what happenes to gasoline inside the "Vergaser" ( a car's carburator).
-Vergasung could also mean filling a room full with gas (for delousing purposes, etc).
-Vergasung could also mean an outcome of an (enemy) attack with combat gas
-etc....

Until a document states "Vergasung von Juden" ("Gassing of Jews"), I am not convinced that the term "Vergasung" alone (or taken out of context) can be, or should be, associated with "(mass)murder".
Last edited by rrohde on Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby aemathisphd » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:58 am)

rrohde may want to view these two links:

http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconbroszat.html

http://www.holocaust-history.org/194110 ... ndex.shtml

Note that the first link is a revisionist one. The word Vergasung is clearly used here to mean homocidal gassing. That seems to be an oversight on Mr. Bradley Smith's part, because in having this on his site, he has made my case for me.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:19 am)

aemathisphd wrote:In a number of other documents, vergasungen also means "to kill with gas." But let's begin with your assertion. What document(s) are you referring to?

I would be interested in those documents, where “Vergasungen” also means “to kill with gas”.
There is documentation that the ventilation equipment for Leichenkeller 1 was at the time of Bischoff’s letter not yet installed. This work was completed only in March 13, 1943. And only then could the Leichenkeller 1 be used as a morgue.

The question now is: Which one is the “Vergasungskeller” Bischoff was referring to?

Mattogno tries to explain this in “Die Leichenkeller der Krematorien von Birkenau im Lichte der Dokumente” (The morgues of the crematoria of Birkenau in the light of the documents) http://vho.org/VffG/2003/3/Mattogno357-365.html

I have right now some computer problems, will try to get back to this quite interesting discussion tomorrow.

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Postby aemathisphd » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:27 am)

Sailor wrote:I would be interested in those documents, where “Vergasungen” also means “to kill with gas”.


If the moderators would approve my post, you would see.

There is documentation that the ventilation equipment for Leichenkeller 1 was at the time of Bischoff’s letter not yet installed.


In fact, Bischoff's letter says exactly this.

This work was completed only in March 13, 1943. And only then could the Leichenkeller 1 be used as a morgue.


So? What am I missing here? If the morgue was to be used as a homocidal gas chamber, then what difference does it make? He's not referring to actually using the room as a gas chamber in the document. He's referring to its future use as one.

The question now is: Which one is the “Vergasungskeller” Bischoff was referring to?


Which what? Which "Leichenkeller"?

Mattogno tries to explain this in “Die Leichenkeller der Krematorien von Birkenau im Lichte der Dokumente” (The morgues of the crematoria of Birkenau in the light of the documents) http://vho.org/VffG/2003/3/Mattogno357-365.html

I have right now some computer problems, will try to get back to this quite interesting discussion tomorrow.


OK. In the meantime, perhaps you or someone else could explain to me what a Vergasungskeller would be used for, if it is not a gas chamber?

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Postby aemathisphd » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 22, 2004 4:31 pm)

Hannover wrote:I note that the mention of corroborating physical evidence was ignored. Why? None there, that's why.


Actually, it wasn't ignored. I offered the cyanide on the walls of Krema II.

As for 'Vergassung', it was commonly used for delousing, ex.:

- See "Erläuterungsbericht über den Bau des KGL Birkenau" of October 30th 1941 where the delousing huts are mentioned as "Vergasungsraum" ( Auschwitz: Das Ende einer Legende. Historisch-technische Überlegungen by Carlo Mattogno)

- the Hoess special order, the Kremer diary, all use "Vergasung" in a
non-homicidal context.


OK, fine, though the Kremer diary also has explicit references to mass murder.

There are no documents which show 'vergasung' as meaning homicida gassing...and none have been produced, ofcourse.


Wrong again.

Unter Bezugnahme auf mein Schreiben vom 18.Okt. 1941 teile ich Ihnen mit, daß sich Oberdienstleiter Brack von der Kanzlei des Führers bereit erklärt hat, bei der Herstellung der erforderlichen Unterkünfte sowie der Vergasungsapparate mitzuwirken. Zur Zeit sind die in Betracht kommenden Apparate in genügender Anzahl nicht vorhanden, sie müssen erst hergestellt werden. Da nach Aufassung Bracks die Herstellung der Apparate im Reich viel größere Schwierigkeiten bereitet als am Ort und Stelle, hält es Brack für am zweckmäßigsten, wenn er umgehend seine Leute, insbesondere sein Chemiker Dr. Kallmayer nach Riga sendet, der dort alles weitere veranlassen wird. Oberdienstleiter Brack weist darauf hin, daß das in Betracht kommende Verfahren nicht ungefährlich ist, so daß insbesondere Schutzmaßnahmen erforderlich seien. Unter diesen Umständen bitte ich Sie, sich über Ihren Höheren SS- und Polizeiführer an Oberdienstleiter Brack in der Kanzlei des Führers zu wenden und um die Entsendung des Chemikers Kallmeyer sowie weitere Hilfskräfte zu bitten. Ich darf darauf hinweisen, daß Sturmbannführer Eichmann, der Sachbearbeiter für Judenfragen im RSHA durchaus mit diesem Verfahren einverstanden ist. Nach Mitteilung von Sturmbannführer Eichmann sollen in Riga und in Minsk Lager für
Juden geschaffen werden, in die evtl. auch Juden aus dem Altreichgebeit kommen. Es werden zur Zeit aus dem Altreich Juden evakuiert, die nach Litzmannstadt, aber auch nach anderen Lagern kommen sollen, um dann später im Osten, soweit arbeitsfähig, in Arbeiteinsatz zu kommen.


Translated:

With reference to my letter of October 18, 1941, this is to inform you that Oberdienstleiter Brack of the Führer Chancellery has agreed to collaborate in the production of the required shelters and gassing devices. At this time, the envisaged devices are not available in sufficient quantity; they will first have to be manufactured. Since in Brack's opinion, the manufacture of the devices in the Reich will cause much greater difficulties than doing it on the spot, Brack considers it most expedient to send his people to Riga, especially his chemist Dr. Kallmeyer, who will effect all further steps there. Oberdienstleiter Brack points out that the procedure in question is not without danger, so that special protective measures are necessary. In these circumstances, I request that you address yourself to Oberdienstleiter Brack in the Führer Chancellery through your Higher SS and Police Leader and request the dispatch of the chemist Kallmeyer and other assistants. I should inform you that Sturmbannführer Eichmann, the expert for the Jewish Question in the RSHA is entirely in agreement with this process. According to information from Sturmbannführer Eichmann, camps for Jews are to be
set up in Riga and Minsk, to which Jews from the Old Reich territory may also come. At this time, Jews are being evacuated out of the Old Reich to
Litzmannstadt (Lodz), and also other camps, to then later be used for labour in the east insofar as they are capable of work.


This is a reference to Dr. Brack's work in the T-4 program, in which people were gassed to death.

See:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/194110 ... ndex.shtml

aemathisphd tries to say the crematorium was finished and ready for mass murder by gassing Jews in the morgue ... when the marketed story itself says that gassings did not start there until months later....oops.


Who cares what the "marketed story" says? We're discussing the Vergasgungskeller document. It clearly states the ovens were ready.

I also notice that aemathisphd claims 'eyewitnesses':
...there are simply at least 100 different people that have given accounts that the very room being referred to here -- the "morgue" in Krema II -- was a gas chamber

Curious, he has failed to start a thread on any of them, or even mention in this thread who supposedly said what. Not convincing at all. Saying so doesn't make it so. I challenge him to start a thread on these 'eyewitnesses'. I'll wait.


I tried to post a thread on that topic. I've been asked to break it up. More later.

He mentions cyanide residue. more problems for him, as shown in
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267
There is no vast residue which supports the fantasy of homicidal gassings. The residue that is there is extremely slight and is indicative of occasional delousing. All buildings were subject to delousing. Ahem.


The records show that Krema II was deloused exactly once. As already established elsewhere and conceded by Rudolf, it does in fact take far less cyanide to kill a person than a body louse. And the Krema was exploded in early 1945. It's been exposed for sixty years. And yet there's still cyanide there, right where all those witnesses say they were.

And aemathisphd tries a strawman by saying that since ventilation was available, it somehow proves 'gassings'.


I am not assessing to you the opinion that ventilation was available. Thus there is no straw man.

It was German law that ALL morgues be euipped with ventilation.


Really? Then why weren't two of the morgues at Auschwitz so equipped?

Oops again. Was it as is alleged in the'holocaust' story? Nope, not close.
see again:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267
and:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=307
and:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=930


The "Holocaust story" is not what's important here, nor is popular belief about the Holocaust, and certainly not long disproved lies about the Holocaust.

If you ask me to defend a story that I didn't tell, then *is* a straw man.

aemathisphd simply dodges the fact that the author of the letter (Bischoff) was not prosecuted, yet aemathisphd claims that hundreds of thousands of people were gassed here and Bischoff knowingly constructed the facilities that were used. That dog don't hunt.


I dodged nothing. I stated that his non-prosecution proves or disproves nothing. It's called, in logic, non sequitur; in English, "it does not follow." I.e., just because Bischoff was not prosecuted, it does not mean that he didn't do anything wrong.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:34 pm)

I challenge aemathisphd to post specifics on the Kremer Diary. Will he do it or dodge? I'll wait.

Then he presents text which says nothing about homicidal gassings; no problem though, he just he claims it does. Sure.
see this exact text shot down in this thread:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=73

aemathisphd then cites the discredited 'holocaust' History Project on the 'Wetzel' document. Use the same link to see that phoney baloney demolished, again:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=73

He then ignores the very 'holocaust' story he is trying to defend (which says the alleged gas chamber in question was allegedly not put into use for months after the date he refers to as being incriminating in regards to gassing. But what the document really says was that the crematory oven for typhus victims was tested, not any such phantom 'gas chambers'.
The furnaces have been lit in the presence of Herr Chief Engineer Prufer of the firm responsible for their construction, Topf & Sons of Erfurt, and they function perfectly


AND, we're STILL waiting for his 'eyewitnesses', and exactly what they said.

He mentions cyanide on the morgue walls, which ofcourse would be normal for a facility that was deloused. Geeesh! The residue is so slight, that as has been shown here:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267
is not commensurate with homicidal gassings.

And yes, anyone knowing that the morgue had been deloused would know that there would be slight cyanide residue. Big deal.

Yep, he still tries the lice vs. humans canard even though that is shot down royally too in:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267

He says 2 morgues weren't equppied with ventillation...which ones? were they underground as were the morgues at Kremas II & III?
We have already shot down the ventilation nonsense in the links here which I posted, but ofcourse aemathisphd ignores them. Well, he dodges them actually.
Germar Rudolf:
1 - All morgues in Birkenau had ventilations systems with some 10 air exchanges per hour, a normal performance, as this was required by German war-time law for underground morgues (5-10 air exchanges per hour)[30]

2 - A comparison between the performance of the alleged 'gas chamber' and that of the alleged victim's undressing room reveals that there is nothing sinister with the ventilation of morgue 1 ('gas chamber'), as its performance is even lower than that of the undressing room: morgue 1 ('gas chamber'): 9.94 exchanges per h morgue 2 ('undressing cellar'): 10.35 exchanges per h

3 - War-time literature recommended some 70 air exchanges per hour for professional delousing chambers, a standard that must be expected for 'professional' homicidal 'gas chambers' as well. [31] In fact, that is 7 times more than that of the systems of these morgues! After a close inspection of the documented facts it is clear that Prof. van Pelt's "powerful ventilation system" is nothing but a fiction

again:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=307
and:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=930
and:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267

And then there's Bischoff again, unprosecuted for the very letter aemathisphd claims to be proof of homicidal gassings.

Only with the so called 'holocaust' do we see such thinking mandated as facts.

The 'holocau$t', falling apart faster than a cheap suit.

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Re: the 'vergasungskeller' note

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:58 pm)

aemathisphd wrote:Untrue. From the memo itself:

Krematorium II has been completed but for minor details, thanks to employing all available forces, despite enormous difficulties and freezing weather, using day and night shifts. The furnaces have been lit in the presence of Herr Chief Engineer Prufer of the firm responsible for their construction, Topf & Sons of Erfurt, and they function perfectly. Because of the frost, it has not yet been possible to remove the formwork from the ceiling of the corpse cellar. This is of no consequence, however, as the gassing cellar can be used to this end.


Whoops!

Testing an equipment does not mean putting it into service, or commissioning the installation. Krema II was accepted only on March 31, 1943 by the camp administration.

No, there are simply at least 100 different people that have given accounts that the very room being referred to here -- the "morgue" in Krema II -- was a gas chamber. And there's the cyanide on the walls. And in the ventilation ducts.

At least 100 different people who testified on the gas chamber?
First question: Were they in a position to witness with their own eyes, or did they hear about this from some “reliable” associates?
Cyanide compounds on walls and ventilation ducts are explained by revisionists as the results from using the morgue 1 of Krema II for disinfestion of the clothes of dead inmates.

- And curiously about Bischoff's note, SS Bischoff was not prosecuted.


Not really. It was an internal memo. It's not as if he was writing a letter to Der Tag or blabbing to his non-SS friends in Berlin. Max Tauebner, on the other hand, *did* blab to his friends about mass killing, and he *was* prosecuted.

Who is Max Tauebener?. Any references? Hermann Lanbein: “Der Auschwitz-Prozeß” possibly? A two volume book with about 1500 pages, the index does not mention this fellow.

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Postby aemathisphd » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:31 am)

Hannover wrote:I challenge aemathisphd to post specifics on the Kremer Diary. Will he do it or dodge? I'll wait.


Start a thread and I will.

Then he presents text which says nothing about homicidal gassings; no problem though, he just he claims it does. Sure.
see this exact text shot down in this thread:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=73


Very few people deny the existence of the euthanasia program or the use of poison gas therein. Thus the document, in context, speaks for itself.

aemathisphd then cites the discredited 'holocaust' History Project on the 'Wetzel' document. Use the same link to see that phoney baloney demolished, again:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=73


This link uses the same bad logic employed elsewhere (Wetzel wasn't punished, so he did nothing wrong). Furthermore, it ignores the known role of Brack in T-4.

He then ignores the very 'holocaust' story he is trying to defend (which says the alleged gas chamber in question was allegedly not put into use for months after the date he refers to as being incriminating in regards to gassing. But what the document really says was that the crematory oven for typhus victims was tested, not any such phantom 'gas chambers'.
The furnaces have been lit in the presence of Herr Chief Engineer Prufer of the firm responsible for their construction, Topf & Sons of Erfurt, and they function perfectly


I think I was clear about this before, but I will restate. The document is about the *intent* of the room, not the usage at that particular time. Obviously it could not be used as a gas chamber if the Krema was not yet complete.

AND, we're STILL waiting for his 'eyewitnesses', and exactly what they said.


I don't have a lifetime to devote to this, Mr. Hannover. Please be patient.

He mentions cyanide on the morgue walls, which ofcourse would be normal for a facility that was deloused. Geeesh! The residue is so slight, that as has been shown here:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267
is not commensurate with homicidal gassings.


The Cracow IFR disagrees. I agree with them.

Furthermore, as noted elsewhere, this morgue was deloused, according to the records, exactly *once*.

And yes, anyone knowing that the morgue had been deloused would know that there would be slight cyanide residue. Big deal.


This is contrary to your earlier claim that it was regularly deloused. Please make up your mind.

Yep, he still tries the lice vs. humans canard even though that is shot down royally too in:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267


Rudolf has conceded that this is true, as already shown.

He says 2 morgues weren't equppied with ventillation...which ones? were they underground as were the morgues at Kremas II & III?
We have already shot down the ventilation nonsense in the links here which I posted, but ofcourse aemathisphd ignores them. Well, he dodges them actually.


Ask Ms. Rothenbach. She was the one who pointed out that two morgues lacked ventilation in another thread.

I have dodged nothing.

Germar Rudolf:
1 - All morgues in Birkenau had ventilations systems with some 10 air exchanges per hour, a normal performance, as this was required by German war-time law for underground morgues (5-10 air exchanges per hour)[30]


He's incorrect, as Ms. Rothenbach pointed out.

2 - A comparison between the performance of the alleged 'gas chamber' and that of the alleged victim's undressing room reveals that there is nothing sinister with the ventilation of morgue 1 ('gas chamber'), as its performance is even lower than that of the undressing room: morgue 1 ('gas chamber'): 9.94 exchanges per h morgue 2 ('undressing cellar'): 10.35 exchanges per h

3 - War-time literature recommended some 70 air exchanges per hour for professional delousing chambers, a standard that must be expected for 'professional' homicidal 'gas chambers' as well. [31] In fact, that is 7 times more than that of the systems of these morgues! After a close inspection of the documented facts it is clear that Prof. van Pelt's "powerful ventilation system" is nothing but a fiction

again:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=307
and:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=930
and:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267


And he's wrong again and again, given the much lower cyanide levels needed to kill humans.

And then there's Bischoff again, unprosecuted for the very letter aemathisphd claims to be proof of homicidal gassings.


And this is still a non sequitur. Repeating faulty logic will not make it good logic.

Only with the so called 'holocaust' do we see such thinking mandated as facts.


Another non sequitur. The "enforcement" of speech laws has no bearing on truth or falsity.

The 'holocau$t', falling apart faster than a cheap suit.


A final note: A "canard" is another way of saying "lie." I am not lying, and I do not appreciate implications to that extent. Please do not make such accusations.

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:57 am)

To aemathisphd: Of course you won't find any revisionist historians in

the US.There are all scared of losing their respect,jobs,and endangering

the welfare of their famillies,on top of the fact that due to the huge

impact of the the extremely successful psychological campaign waged by

Zionists,I mean the holocaust industry,they are just as brainwashed as

anyone else.Us historians wouldn't dare go against the grain of

conformist trend of thought concearning the holocaust and the third

reich.Are Norman G. Finkelstein's book the holocaust industry,or Sacks

eye for an eye,sitting on the shelves of major book stores?I wonder why?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:23 am)

I see aemathisphd dodges posting specific material on Taubner and does not say why he finds Taubner credible. He cited Taubner, but is shy about going into detail. I challenge him to state specifics or leave the thread.

I still see no Kremer info. Post it or walk from the thread.

aemathisphd talks about a euthanasia program which Revisionists do not doubt (again he tries a strawman) as if somehow that dovetails into mass murder by gassing. There is zero evidence that this program involved gassings, aemathisphd cannot show it either, he just claims it. I challenge him again.. And BTW, euthanasia is common worldwide.

aemathisphd avoids specifics of the Forum thread I referred him to on the nonsense about Wetzel. He mentions Brack's involvement in the euthanasia program all the while not making a connection to the supposed gassings...which was his original intent. In other words, aemathisphd dodges again.

aemathisphd now waffles and uses a code word of "intent" when it comes to his assertions about the vergasungskeller text, previously it was conclusive proof.

He still cannot provide physical evidence, which he has been challenged to do.

He again states that the morgue was deloused once, as if that supports his point....which in fact it does just the opposite and supports the Revisionist point that the cyanide residue is ridiculously small and is commensurate with occasional, or even one delousing. He cannot show the high degree of cyanide which would necessarily exist...if the absurd story was true.

He again cites the fraudulent Cracow report which we have shown him over & over does not stand up to scrutiny, see:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267

He repeats the cyanide residue canard, which we know indicates occasional or even one delousing, but the necesary residue to indicate homicidal gassings is absent....as explained in:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267

He frankly, to be kind, does not tell the truth when he says I said the morgue was deloused 'regularily', I said no such thing, I said "occasionally". Apparently desperation has set in.

He then cites Rudolf on the lice vs. humans canard as if Rudolf agrees with Believers on the cyanide residue issue. Quite the opposite, see:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=267
Take notice that he fled that thread as he was unable to respond to Revisionists debunking of his impossible position.

Respond to the challenges.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: the 'vergasungskeller' note

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:06 am)

aemathisphd wrote:
Hannover wrote:- In a number of other documents, "vergasungen" refers to disinfestation and/or fumigation measures.


In a number of other documents, vergasungen also means "to kill with gas." But let's begin with your assertion. What document(s) are you referring to?

From:
German Disinfection Procedures
http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconshr123.html#shrlk3

“[…]The Germans, in the context of reorganizing the Turkish army [fge: WWI], spent a great deal of effort in controlling typhus and other diseases.101 The two main tools of this effort were the Dampfdesinfektionwagens (mobile steam disinfection trucks) and the Turkish baths, which were converted for disinfection purposes.102 The Germans used primarily sulfur gas, which required a generator (Vergaser) that would burn the sulfur and provide the gas.103 Already at the beginning of 1914 the Germans were using vergasen (gasify, gas) as a synonym for begasen (fumigate). 104 […]“

and:

“[…]The same air circulation technology (Kreislauf) would be used in large railroad tunnels, which by means of the air circulation gas generating apparatus (Kreislaufvergasungsapparaturen) could fumigate an entire passenger train at one time.12 […]”

Reference 104:
“[…]In der Kaserne wurde dann die alte Kleidung, Wäsche, Bettzeug desinfiziert, die Zimmer mit Formaldehyd und gegen die Läuse mit schwefelige Säure vergast." quoted from Meyer's memoirs, Becker, op. cit., p. 38 […]

Becker, Helmut, Äskulap zwischen Reichsadler und Halbmond, Helmut Becker, n. p., 1990, provides an extensive survey including many extracts from primary sources and memoirs.

fge

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Postby Moderator3 » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:25 am)

aemathisphd,
You are ignoring requests for you to provide information that you say exists. Please do so, please read our guidelines on this matter.
Also, please quit adding other topics to the thread. That comes under the heading of changing the subject. Start a distinct thread on any new topic you wish to discuss.
M3


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