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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby Callahan » 5 years 5 months ago (Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:40 pm)

I only briefly read the original post but this exact topic came up in a debate I was involved in with Nick Terry about a year ago on the JREF forum. I was able to dig up a few examples:

This is what happened to Germans who didn't support the 'Holocaust' narrative:

Birkenau Commandant Josef Kramer was ultimately hanged:
I have heard of the allegations of former prisoners in Auschwitz referring to a gas chamber there, the mass executions and whippings, the cruelty of the guards employed and that all this took place either in my presence or with my knowledge. All I can say to all this is that it is untrue from beginning to end.


Julius Streicher wasn't even a member of the military nor did he take part in planning the 'Holocaust'. He was hanged for statements such as these:
To this day I do not believe that 5 million were killed. I consider it technically impossible that that could have happened. I do not believe it. I have not received proof of that up until now.


SS Ernst Kaltenbrunner was also hanged for his "denial":
Show me one of those men or any of those orders. It is utterly impossible.


...as was SS Hans Aumeier:
I know nothing about any gas chambers and no detainee was gassed during my tour of duty.


Alfred Rosenberg was hung, as well:
But that there was an order for the individual annihilation of the entire Jewry, I could not assume... it was not interpreted as an individual extermination, an individual annihilation of millions of Jews.


It gets even deeper:

- Auschwitz Commandant Richard Baer was the only defendant who did not appear at the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial in 1963. Though in perfect health, he died "in a highly mysterious way" while in prison before the trial had begun. This is of particular interest because a Paris newspaper had recorded his insistence that "during the whole time in which he governed Auschwitz, he never saw any gas chambers nor believed that such things existed," and from this statement nothing would dissuade him.

- Deputy Commandant Gustav Franz Wagner lived in Brazil after the war. After Simon Wiesenthal initiated a hunt for a man falsely identified as him, the real Wagner voluntarily handed himself over to the Brazil special police. Wagner reportedly told police “I never saw any gas chamber at Sobibor”. A year later Wagner allegedly committed suicide by stabbing himself to death in the bathroom of his rural home.

- There were also mysterious pre-trial "suicides" of Joseph Goebbels, Heinrich Himmler, Adolf Hitler, Odilo Globocnik and several others.

As over-cited as he may be, Rudolf Hoess probably deserved better than what he got:
Psychologically I was almost cut in pieces. They wanted to know all about everything, and this was also done by Jews. They left me in no doubt whatever as to the fate that was in store for me.


Whatever they did to him, it worked. He blamed himself for crimes he wasn't even aware of:
Since I was Commandant of the extermination camp Auschwitz I was totally responsible for everything that happened there, whether I knew about it or not. Most of the terrible and horrible things that took place there I learned only during this investigation and during the trial itself. I cannot describe how I was deceived, how my directives were twisted, and all the things they had carried out supposedly under my orders.


Oswald Pohl dealt with similar problems:
As result of the brutal physical mistreatment in Nenndorf and my treatment in Nuremberg, I was emotionally a completely broken man. I was 54 years old. For 33 years I had served by country without dishonor, and I was unconscious of any crime.


Pohl had to say about the general character of postwar trials against German leaders:
It was obvious during the Dachau trials, and it also came out unmistakably and only poorly disguised during the Nuremberg trials, that the prosecution authorities, among whom Jews predominated, were driven by blind hatred and obvious lust for revenge. Their goal was not the search for truth but rather the annihilation of as many adversaries as possible.


Both Pohl and Hoess were executed by hanging.

Once subsequently-tried German officials "got the picture", the only dependable option became acknowledging 'extermination' while denying involvement. This became the standard for SS confessions.

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby borjastick » 5 years 5 months ago (Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:31 am)

Dear Tim O'Neill

How's your 'smack down argument' doing these days? Not so good I suspect if you've had the balls to read the above. You might be good at influencing and bullying impressionable youngsters - your target audience- but up against adults with a brain and a decent education on the subject matter you would find it somewhat tougher.

But I still respect your position and extend a warm welcome to you to come here and put you irrefutable case to us for discussion.

Regards

Borjastick
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We all make mishtakes Tim ...

Postby Horhug » 5 years 5 months ago (Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:20 am)

Tim O'Neill wrote:And I've told you why asking me to detail every single Nazi who fell into my category who didn't deny the Holocaust (ie all of them) is an absurd request given how many of them there were, when all you need to do to disprove my claim is produce ONE who did.


Since I was mysteriously locked out of the "conversation" with Tim O'Neill over at Quora, I was unable to add further replies to that thread:

I then raised a new question at Quora asking if he or anyone else would come over to CODOH to debate the issue.

According to the subsequent notification that I received from Quora about my new question, it would appear that either, using Tim O'Neills name in the question violated their privacy policy and/or, the actual question could make him feel uncomfortable.

This, after I had received serial abuse from the self-described "amateur historian", while I remained polite and respectful throughout.

So far I have found one other question at Quora that used Tim O'Neill's name in the actual question title and to which he responded without complaint. So, maybe on that occasion he didn't consider that his privacy had been violated or that the question made him feel uncomfortable.

I have now been locked out from further editing at Quora, because someone has decided that I am not using my real name, which coincidentally, was Tim O'Neills principal concern during the thread.

So, I sent this email to Tim O'Neill directly via his profile on blogger.com, so that he will have no grounds to deny knowledge of the CODOH invitation and to show that he has been given ample opportunity to set the record straight.



Dear Tim

Re: our "conversation" on Quora recently here:

http://www.quora.com/The-Holocaust/What ... m-ONeill-1

After your last comment to me on that thread, I was locked out and unable to post further.

The very popular answer that you gave on Quora. "No Nazi Was Ever A Holocaust Denier" has prompted quite a few responses from the CODOH community, so maybe you'd be interested in taking a look at what they have to say.

That CODOH thread is here:

quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

So even from these cursory responses, it becomes clear that your Quora answer is not as accurate as you have asserted.

At the very least, your answer at Quora requires some modification or qualification.

Given that you have provided incorrect information to your 2300+ followers at Quora, I would naturally expect a man of your obvious integrity to provide a correction on the Quora forum.

If you decide not to do that, your internet reputation as "an amateur historian" may be somewhat degraded, which would be a great shame.

We all make mistakes Tim and as a responsible "amateur historian", I'm sure you would not want to be known as the person who was responsible for not only misleading your 2300+ Quora followers, but also the person who refused to set the record straight.

Not forgetting of course, setting the record straight in each of the minds of your 2300+ Quora followers.

At CODOH we have created a couple of other threads in response to points you raised with me at Quora, so feel free to come over and join the debate Tim.

quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Hoess 'confessions' are proof

quora.com / Tim O'Neill: on Albert Speer

You will be most welcome.

Kind regards

Henry Orhug


Email sent to Tim O'Neill, at <email address> on 8 October 2013

Tim O'Neill's blog: http://armariummagnus.blogspot.co.uk/


.

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 5 years 5 months ago (Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:54 pm)

I like this one too:

"Only lice were gassed at Auschwitz." - Louis Darquier (1897 – 1980), Commissioner for Jewish Affairs under the Vichy Régime.

Image

http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... 895244f9c1


Another Nazi "Holocaust denier": Leon Degrelle

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 5 years 5 months ago (Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:03 pm)

Another Nazi "Holocaust Denier": Erich Priebke (who died today)

Image


In a written interview recorded a few months before his death, Priebke, who was jailed for life over the execution of hundreds of Italians in the so-called Ardeatine massacre, denied the Holocaust and defends Adolf Hitler and the Nazi ideology.

[...]

The text of the interview was given to IBTimes UK by Priebke's lawyer, Paolo Giachini, who was tasked by the former Schutzstaffel (SS) captain with releasing it after his death. He said it is Priebke's "human and political will".

[...]

Priebke dismissed concentration camps as normal war prisons, saying they featured good kitchens and brothels for the inmates to use.

"To lock up people that were a threat to national security was a normal thing during the war," Priebke said. "Russians and Americans did the same."

He claims the gassing of millions Jews is false and that existence of gas chambers was cooked up at the Nuremberg trials of Hitler's top Nazi henchmen.

He describes Nuremberg as a "show trial" and a farce set up to dehumanise Germans and cover up war crimes made by the US and its allies.

"The activity carried out by a gas chamber is invasive towards the environment and terribly dangerous, deadly, also on the outside.

"To kill millions of people this way, in the same place where other work and live, without them to notice anything is absurd," he rambled.

Priebke claimed he was "dismayed" when he first heard about gas chambers after the end of the war.

He said the world was "brainwashed" by US propaganda to believe that Germans were evil, so that the allies could get away with the indiscriminate bombings of German cities and rule the world undisturbed according to their economic and political interests.

Priebke adds that the Holocaust was Hollywoodized to sell movies and books, which revenue was used to fund the state of Israel.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/51329 ... l-will.htm



http://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2013/ ... newspaper/
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby Scotsman » 5 years 5 months ago (Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:09 pm)

cold beer wrote:I read somewhere that the German government made public announcements throughout Europe informing the public that the gas chamber allegations were pure propaganda, similar to the way they announced that it was the Soviets who executed the Poles at Katyn.


Would love to see an example of this. I don't remember anyone quoting these announcements but it would make for more Nazi 'deniers'.

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby Dresden » 5 years 5 months ago (Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:06 pm)

"In a written interview recorded a few months before his death, Priebke.....denied the Holocaust and defends Adolf Hitler and the Nazi ideology"

"He claims the gassing of millions Jews is false and that existence of gas chambers was cooked up at the Nuremberg trials of Hitler's top Nazi henchmen"

I lay fifty to one odds that Priebke didn't say "Hitler's top Nazi henchmen"

"To kill millions of people this way, in the same place where other work and live, without them to notice anything is absurd," he rambled.

Doesn't sound like "rambling" to me.

That article is full of disinfo.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/51329 ... l-will.htm
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 5 years 5 months ago (Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:12 am)

cold beer wrote:I read somewhere that the German government made public announcements throughout Europe informing the public that the gas chamber allegations were pure propaganda, similar to the way they announced that it was the Soviets who executed the Poles at Katyn.


On at least one occasion, Germany publicly denied any intention to murder concentration camp inmates. An October 12 1944 letter talks of Germany's "press denial" of rumored intentions to murder Birkenau inmates. This letter has never been released to the public by the U.S. government.

http://codoh.com/library/document/898

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t984772/
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby Hektor » 5 years 5 months ago (Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:51 am)

Karl Wolff, Himmlers adjutant, "denied" knowledge of the "Holocaust".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Wolff

In German:
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-45138994.html
Claims to have been told about 'Holocaust' in Switzerland, March 1945.

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby hermod » 5 years 5 months ago (Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:25 am)

SS-Obersturmführer Robert Mulka, who was adjutant to Rudolp Hoess, denied he even knew about the gassings.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwcjf1JGMxk

http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... hwitz.html
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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby borjastick » 5 years 5 months ago (Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:11 am)

The O'Neill's of this world will try to move the goalposts now that his 'slamdunk argument' has indeed been slamdunked...into the bin. I suspect he will try to characterise the holocaust in another way in support of his argument.

Should be entertaining...

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck!
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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby Hektor » 5 years 5 months ago (Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:28 am)

hermod wrote:SS-Obersturmführer Robert Mulka, who was adjutant to Rudolp Hoess, denied he even knew about the gassings.


I wonder why the Exterminationists never quote him or point to him, when they argue that the "Nazis confessed the Holocaust".

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby Zulu » 5 years 5 months ago (Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:08 pm)

Hektor wrote:
hermod wrote:SS-Obersturmführer Robert Mulka, who was adjutant to Rudolp Hoess, denied he even knew about the gassings.


I wonder why the Exterminationists never quote him or point to him, when they argue that the "Nazis confessed the Holocaust".

Other documents are often omitted. See the Colonel Naeve Report in IMT's Documents.

When commenting about the confessions of criminals themselves including homicidal gassings, there is a point often forgotten: this is the emission of 312,022 notarized affidavits coming from high ranked officers of all German organizations incriminated at Nuremberg. These documents which denied all acknowledgment of a supposed "plan of extermination" were mostly discarded by the judges. Only 102 were retained and translated. See hereafter the treatment they received by the IMT.

CRIMINAL ORGANIZATIONS

The defense evidence for the "criminal organizations" consists of the testimony of 102 witnesses and 312,022 notarized affidavits (XXII 176 <<200>>).
The term "criminal" was never defined (XXII 310 <<354>>; see also XXII 129-135 <<148-
155>>).

Nor was it defined when these organizations became "criminal" (XXII 240 <<272-273>>).
The Nazi Party itself was criminal dating back to 1920 (XXII 251 <<285>>) or then again maybe only 1938 (XXII 113 <<130>>) or maybe even not at all (II 105 <<123>>).

The 312,022 notarized affidavits were presented to a "commission", and evidence before this "commission" does not appear in the transcript of the Nuremberg Trial.

The National Archives in Washington do not possess a copy of the commission transcript, had never heard of it, and do not know what it is.

Of the 312,022 affidavits, only a few dozen were ever translated into English, so the Tribunal could not read them (XXI 287, 397-398 <<319, 439>>).

The President of the Tribunal, Sir Geoffrey Lawrence, understood no German; neither did Robert Jackson.

Due to a last-minute rule change (XXI 437-438, 441, 586-587 <<483-485, 488, 645-646>>) many more affidavits were rejected on technical grounds (XX 446-448 <<487-489>>).

The "commission" prepared "summaries" which were presented to the Tribunal (x-thousand affidavits alleging humane treatment of prisoners, etc). These summaries were not considered to be in evidence. The Tribunal promised to read the 312,022 affidavits before arriving at their verdict (XXI 175 <<198>>); 14 days later it was announced that the 312,022 affidavits were not true (XXII 176-178 <<200-203>>).

Then a single affidavit from the prosecution (Document D-973) was deemed to have
"rebutted" 136,000 affidavits from the defense (XXI 588; 437, 366 <<647, 483-484, 404>>).

The 102 witnesses were forced to appear and testify before the "commission" before
appearing before the Tribunal. Then, 29 of these witnesses (XXI 586 <<645>>), or 22 of these witnesses (XXII 413 <<468>>) were allowed to appear before the Tribunal, but their testimony was not permitted to be 'cumulative', that is, repetitive of their testimony before the 'commission' (XXI 298, 318, 361 <<331, 352, 398-399>>).

Then, six affidavits from the prosecution were deemed to have "rebutted" the testimony of the 102 witnesses (XXI 153 <<175>>, XXII 221 <<251>>).

One of these affidavits was in Polish, so the defense could not read it (XX 408 <<446>>).

Another was signed by a Jew named Szloma Gol who claimed to have dug up and cremated
80,000 bodies, including that of his own brother (XXI 157 <<179>>, XXII 220 <<250>>).
(In the British transcript he has only dug up 67,000 bodies).

The prosecution had already rested its case when this occurred (XX 389-393, 464 <<426-430, 506>>; XXI 586-592 <<645-651>>).

The prosecution then claimed in its final summation that 300,000 affidavits had been
presented to the Tribunal and had been considered during the trial, giving the impression that these are prosecution documents (XXII 239 <<272>>).

In fact, the prosecution got through the entire trial with no more than a few really important affidavits of their own. (See, for example, XXI 437 <<483>>, where eight or nine affidavits were presented for the prosecution against three hundred thousand for the defense; see also XXI 200 <<225>>; 477-478 <<528-529>>; 585-586 <<643-645>>; 615 <<686-687>>).

In the various concentration camp trials, such as the Trial of Martin Gottfried Weiss, a simpler expedient was agreed upon: mere employment in the camp, even if only for a few weeks, was deemed to constitute "constructive knowledge" of the "Common Plan".

"Common Plan", of course, was not defined. It was not necessary to allege specific acts of mistreatment, or to show that anyone had died as a result of mistreatment. (36 of the 40 defendants were sentenced to death.)

The transcript of the Nuremberg commission is in The Hague, and fills half of one fire-proof floor-to-ceiling vault. The testimony of each witness was typed with a pagination beginning with page 1, then re-typed, with consecutive pagination running to many thousands of pages.

The first drafts and clean copy are in folders, together, stapled, on very brittle paper, with rusty staples. It is absolutely certain that, at least at The Hague, no one has ever read this material.

Summation relating to the testimony of the 102 witnesses appears mostly in fine print in volumes XXI and XXII in the Nuremberg Trial transcript. The fine print means that the passages were deleted from the final defense summation (otherwise the trial would have been much too long). This material runs to several hundred pages.

In the transcript published in the United Kingdom, every word of this material is gone. In English, 11 pages in fine print are missing between paragraphs 1 and 2 on page 594 from volume XXI. These appear in the German volumes (XXI 654-664). Most of the rest of it appears to be there.

[---]

The 312,022 affidavits are probably on deposit with a German archive.

From: Carlos W. Porter, Not Guilty at Nuremberg, p 7,8, 9.
http://vho.org/dl/ENG.html

Colonel Neave Report
Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Volume 42
Final Report on the Evidence of Witnesses for the Defense of Organizations Alleged to be Criminal, Heard Before a Commission Appointed by the

Tribunal Pursuant to Paragraph 4 of the Order of the 13th of March, 1946

Colonel Neave Report

Final Report on the Evidence of Witnesses for the Defense of Organizations Alleged to be Criminal, Heard Before a Commission Appointed by the Tribunal Pursuant to Paragraph 4 of the Order of the 13th of March, 1946.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/naeve.asp

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby Hektor » 5 years 5 months ago (Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:36 pm)

So it gets even better!

The video were Mulka speaks seems to be part of longer footage. Is that anywhere available?


Mulka's dispute is public knowledge, even in Germany:
Haben Sie von den Vergasungen gewusst?", fragt der Richter eindringlich. "Nein!" ruft der SS-Offizier Robert Mulka, der in Auschwitz Adjutant des Lagerkommandanten war. Der Tonbandmitschnitt aus dem Frankfurter Strafprozess mit dem Aktenzeichen 4 Ks 2/63 geht unter die Haut - auch über 40 Jahre nach der Befragung. Der Hamburger Kaufmann Mulka, der von Ende 1963 bis 1965 mit 18 anderen SS-Angehörigen und einem Funktionshäftling auf der Anklagebank saß, wurde schließlich im Alter von 70 Jahren wegen Beihilfe zum Mord zu 14 Jahren Gefängnis verurteilt.

http://www.stern.de/politik/geschichte/ ... 17896.html

But it isn't mentioned in the German wiki article:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mulka

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Re: quora.com / Tim O'Neill: Nazis never denied 'holocaust'

Postby Hektor » 5 years 3 months ago (Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:34 am)

Update. The longer footage was here:
www.auschwitz-prozess.de

But at the moment you only can get transcripts. They promise to put on the audio later again.


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