J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?' / & more

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J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?' / & more

Postby Hannover » 5 years 7 months ago (Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm)

We hear the logically flawed question repeatedly, 'If Jews weren't murdered, then where did they go?'
The simplest response is: 'Jews went where Jews are.'
2nd most simple response: 'Show us verifiable excavations of the claimed huge mass graves / human remains in which Jews claim to know exact locations of.'

But anyway, here is a to-the-point response presented by scholar Juergen Graf from a debate between Otto Perge and Laszlo Karsai. The ease in which this old canard is dispensed with is impressive. See quoted text below.

also recommended:
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... c32aef952e

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7581

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7298

http://www.jta.org/1944/02/23/archive/g ... r-refugees

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1083

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8192

Slam dunk. The tide is turning.

- Hannover
from: 'Hungarian Holocaust Debate: Otto Perge vs. Dr. Laszlo Karsai'
http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hu ... ebate.html
Jürgen Graf
In March 2010 the Hungarian parliament adopted an anti-revisionist law making it illegal to dispute the orthodox version of the “holocaust” At the same time, Hungarian nationalist and revisionist Otto Perge suggested a debate on the topic. One of the country’s most prominent “holocaust” scholars, Dr. Laszlo Karsai, accepted the challenge. Having learned this, I contacted Mr. Perge, who fortunately knows English (I neither read nor speak Hungarian) and offered him my assistance, which he accepted. Thereupon I sent him 17 questions for his opponent. Dr. Perge translated them into Hungarian and had them published on the website Kuruc.info. Having read them, Dr. Karsai told Perge that he did not intend to answer these questions, and it is indeed highly improbable that he will.


Argument 12

from: 'Hungarian Holocaust Debate: Otto Perge vs. Dr. Laszlo Karsai'
http://juergen-graf.vho.org/articles/hu ... ebate.html

“Large numbers of Jews were sent to the camps of Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. Where did these Jews go if they were not gassed?”
Answer

After the German leadership had abandoned the Madagascar plan, it pursued a new policy: The European Jews were to be resettled in the occupied Soviet territories. On 10 February 1942 Franz Rademacher wrote a letter to envoy Harald Bielfeld of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in which he stated:[67]

“The war against the Soviet Union has meanwhile opened up the possibility of providing other territories for the final solution. The Führer has decided accordingly that the Jews will not be deported to Madagascar but to the East. Hence, Madagascar need no longer be considered for the final solution.”

This clearly shows that the “final solution” was a territorial one!

The construction of the transit camps Belzec, Treblinka, and Sobibor must be seen in this context:

– On 17 March 1942 Fritz Reuter, an employee in the Department of Population Matters at the office of the General Governor for the Lublin district, wrote a memorandum on a conversation he had had the day before with SS-Hauptsturmführer Julius Höfle. According to this memorandum, Höfle had explained that “Jews unfit for work” would all be taken to Belzec, “the outmost border station in Zamosc county.” 4 to 5 transports of 1,000 Jews each would be “taken across the border and would never return to the General Government.”[68]

– On 13 August 1942 SS general Karl Wolff wrote to Albert Ganzenmüller of the Reichsbahn, who had previously informed him that since 22 July there had been a daily train with 5,000 Jews from Warsaw to Treblinka, that he was very glad to learn that the Germans were now able “to accelerate this population transfer.”[69]

– On 5 July 1943 Himmler ordered the “transit camp Sobibor” to be converted into a concentration camp.[70]

The mainstream “holocaust” historians expect us to believe that the National Socialist leadership used a “coded language” even in their private correspondence, and that expressions such as “be taken across the border,” “transit camp,” and “population transfer” were euphemisms for “physical extermination.” This claim is ridiculous beyond comment. To back up their monstrous fantasies about chemical slaughterhouses where huge numbers of Jews were gassed (in the case of Belzec and Treblinka with Diesel exhaust, although it is generally known that Diesel exhaust, which contains a high amount of oxygen and very low quantities of carbon monoxide, is relatively harmless), these historians can present no better evidence than grotesque “eyewitness testimony.” That the witnesses contradict each other on just about everything and that there reports are teeming with absurdities does not seem to bother these splendid scholars at all.

The whole gassing story hinges on the existence of the gas chamber buildings described by the self-styled “eyewitness.” Between 1997 and 2000, a highly qualified Polish archeologist, Prof. Andrzej Kola, performed extensive excavations and drillings on the territory of the former camps Belzec and Sobibor.[71] He was unable to find the slightest trace of the alleged gas chamber buildings, which definitely settles the matter.

The authors of the above-mentioned book Sobibor. Holocaust Propaganda and Reality adduce solid evidence for the presence of French, Belgian, Dutch, and other Western Jews in the occupied Eastern territories during the war. Two examples will suffice here:

– During the German wartime occupation of Lithuania, the Jew Herman Kruk kept a Yiddish-language diary which was later translated into English.[72] In his entry of 16 April 1943 Kruk mentioned the presence of 19,000 Dutch Jews in the Lithuanian town of Vievis. On 20 April 1943, he wrote that furniture belonging to Dutch Jews had been brought to the local workshops for repair and that Dutch documents had been found in the drawers. As there is no reason on earth why Kruk should have made up this story, this proves that Dutch Jews allegedly gassed at Auschwitz and Sobibor were transferred to Lithuania (mainstream “holocaust” literature knows nothing about Dutch Jews in the Eastern territories).

– In April 1944 the communist French underground newspaper Notre Voix reported that 8,000 Jews from Paris had been “rescued” by the Red Army in Ukraine.[73] According to “holocaust” literature, the only French Jews ever deported to the East went to Estonia and Lithuania in May 1944,[74] so the Parisian Jews found in the Ukraine in April 1944 must by necessity have gone there via Auschwitz. In the “holocaust” statistics, they figure as “gassed people.”

Now, the supporters of the orthodox “holocaust” story will ask why there are no German documents about railway transports of these Jews to the occupied Eastern Territories and about Jewish settlements in the East. Furthermore they will ask what happened to those of the deported Jews who survived the harsh wartime conditions. To these questions the revisionists can only oppose a hypothesis, but a reasonable and well-founded one:

For several reasons, the victorious allies decided to continue propagating the Jewish extermination story after the war. First of all, this enabled them to excuse their own crimes, such as the terror bombing of the German cities or the inhumane expulsion of more than 15 million civilians from East Germany and the Sudetenland, by accusing the vanquished of far worse atrocities. But there were other, even more important reasons. By charging Germany with an unparalleled crime, the victors hoped to crush the national spirit of the German people and to prevent any resurgence of German nationalism. Finally the “holocaust” story prepared the ground for the foundation of the State of Israel, which both the USA and the Soviet Union wholeheartedly supported. (In view of the communist sympathies of many Jews, Stalin undoubtedly hoped that Israel would become a Soviet bulwark in the Near East; as the further developments showed, this hope was illusionary.) Now, if the Jewish extermination story was to be believed, the documents about the transfer of the Jews to the East had to disappear. For the victorious powers it was certainly not difficult to destroy, or to hide, some piles of paper.

The number of the Jews transferred to the occupied Soviet territories was about 1.9 million (for details see the above-mentioned book Sobibor. Holocaust Propaganda and Reality). A clear majority of them were Polish Jews. The authors of the book assume that the Soviet prevented the deportees who had survived the grim wartime conditions from returning to their homelands after 1945.


Jürgen Graf und Carlo Mattogno, KL Majdanek. Eine wissenschaftliche und technische Studie, Castle Hill Publishers, Hastings 1998.
[67] Nuremberg document NG-5770.
[68] Jüdisches Historisches Institut Warschau (ed.), Faschismus – Ghetto – Massenmord, Röderberg Verlag, Frankfurt am Main 1981, p. 269 f.
[69] Raul Hilberg, Sonderzüge nach Auschwitz, Dumjahn, Munich 1981, p. 181.
[70] Nuremberg document NO-482.
[71] Andrzej Kola, Belzec. The Nazi Camp for Jews in the Light of Archeological Sources. Excavations from 1997 – 2000, Warsaw/Washington 2000. – Andrzej Kola, “Badania Archeologiczne terenu bylego obozu zaglady Zydow w Sobiborze,” in: Przeszlosc i Pamiec, No 4 (21), 2001.
[72] Herman Kruk, The last days of the Jerusalem of Lithuania, Yale University Press, New Haven/London 2002.
[73] Adam Raisky, La presse antiraciste sous l’occupation hitlérienne, Paris 1950, p. 179.
[74] Serge Klarsfeld, Le mémorial de la déportation des juifs de France, Paris 1978.
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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go the

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 5 years 7 months ago (Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:13 pm)

What a great response/article.

Every time I read Graf, I'm impressed with his intellect.

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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go the

Postby astro3 » 5 years 7 months ago (Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:11 am)

This does give an insight into the Operation Reinhard, which involved these three and only these three transit camps near the Eastern Polish border.
But our credulity is strained by the remark about "since 22 July [1942] there had been a daily train with 5,000 Jews from Warsaw to Treblinka," - that would be about one million Jews in half a year, on one railway line?? And the reference here is to Hilberg, is that really reliable?

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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go the

Postby Bob » 5 years 7 months ago (Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:26 am)

In a report by Albert Ganzenmüller to Wolff dated July 28, 1942 we read:[1]

“Since July 22, a train with 5,000 Jews makes a daily trip from Warsaw to Treblinka via Makinia, in addition to a train with 5,000 Jews traveling twice a week from Przemysl to Belzec.”

To this Wolff responded on August 13, 1942:[2]

“I have noted with especial pleasure your report that a train with 5,000 members of the Chosen People has already been running for 14 days to Treblinka every day, and we are thus indeed in a position to carry out this movement of population at an accelerated tempo.”

And as we know, the total number for 1942 was 713,555 acc. to figures in Hoeffle telegram or in the Korherr report, thus the trains did not depart every day or with always the same number of people.

Notes

[1]Carlo Mattogno, Jürgen Graf, Treblinka: Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?, The Barnes Review, Washington, D.C., 2010, p. 275.
[2]Idem.

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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go the

Postby hermod » 5 years 7 months ago (Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:09 pm)

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go the

Postby Moderator » 5 years 7 months ago (Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:55 pm)

hermod:
Please add comments / viewpoints whenever you post a link.
Thank you.
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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go the

Postby hermod » 5 years 7 months ago (Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:13 pm)

Moderator wrote:hermod:
Please add comments / viewpoints whenever you post a link.
Thank you.
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My comments are in the topic I've linked. So I thought it wasn't necessary to add further comments. But I'll do it in the future. Sorry.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go the

Postby Moderator » 5 years 7 months ago (Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:36 pm)

No big deal, just keeping everyone on the same page. Your input is always quality work. Thank you.
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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go the

Postby Werd » 5 years 7 months ago (Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:26 pm)

Here is an old article from 2003. It seems to me that thanks to the work of Thomas Kues and others now, we can confidently say that many Jews who survived the holocaust probably did not lost their relatives. Their relatives simply moved and couldn't go back to Germany, not even after the allies started the de-nazification process. They would be too traumatized or upset to return to a country that they felt abandoned them. At least in my opinion. By the way, you can also read the article here in the Observer/Reporter newspaper from Washington.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2 ... 57,6167495
I am forced to wonder, how many more archives are still being sat on, unpenetrated that could hold the answer for many Jews as to where their relatives ended up since apparently a lot of them went to Russia. it was only in the nineties when the Soviets opened up their archives to allow Mattogno to do his work on the central construction office of the waffen ss in Auschwitz and then write a book of the same title. Who knows what papers or documents could answer questions that jews have about their ancestors or even former contemporaires since some survivors of world war two are still alive and not all have died yet.


http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/ ... 3/12/61639

Holocaust Survivors Traced Online
Associated Press Email 12.17.03

SEATTLE, Washington -- Nearly 60 years after World War II and the Holocaust, survivors who had once despaired of finding long-lost loved ones are being reunited with them with the help of computer databases and the opening of Soviet bloc archives.

In just the past four months, the Red Cross Holocaust and World War II Tracing Center in Baltimore has reconnected at least 40 people with loved ones missing since the war.

George Gordon, 77, was one of them. Gordon, a Catholic from Poland, had been told long ago that his parents, sister and baby brother died in the Warsaw uprising of 1944. This fall, Gordon learned that his mother lived until 1986 and that his sister was still alive in Poland.

The Polish Red Cross had discovered his mother's death certificate, and it listed a sole survivor -- Gordon's sister. Gordon and his sister were reunited at her home in September.

"I couldn't believe it," said Gordon, who lives in Seattle. "Finding somebody that was missing for 60 years is just amazing."

The tracing center was established in 1990 to sort through 47 million papers released after the Iron Curtain fell, including records from the Soviet Union and other East Bloc countries and seized Nazi documents.

About 1,000 people have been found by the tracing center since it was established. But not everyone is lucky enough to find a relative. More often, said spokeswoman Elise Babbitt, a search turns up "dates of death, which camps family members were in, which deportation trains they were on."

Even when the search turns up only a slip of paper, "people are just happy to know anything, anything at all," said Seattle Red Cross volunteer Tammy Kaiser, who worked on Gordon's case. "It documents the fact that they were alive, they're being remembered. Sometimes that IS a happy ending."

With time running out for those who were adults in the 1940s, 34,000 people hoping to find others lost during the war have contacted the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, D.C., over the past year. The museum shares information with the Red Cross tracing center.

Leon Schipper hugs Michael Hartogs after the two Holocaust survivors were reunited at the Los Angeles International Airport December 9, 2003. I'm really shook up. -- Michael Hartogs, 65, as he hugged Leon Schipper, the man who carried him to safety. "There's a new burst of energy," said Scott Miller, director of the museum's survivors registry.

The Internet has helped, too. Some people were found by Red Cross volunteers using the birth-date search engine anybirthday.com, Babbitt said.

"We hear all the time, 'Isn't this all over?"' Babbitt said. "That's why we're working so hard to get the word out."

Last week, Red Cross tracing center reunited a Holocaust survivor with the man who pulled him from a crib 61 years ago to keep him from being sent to Auschwitz.

Leon Schipper was 14 when a last-minute request by the queen of Belgium sent him and about 50 other children from a detention camp to an orphanage. Before a truck arrived to pick them up, Schipper passed a room where 4-year-old Michael Hartogs was in a crib and took him to safety.

"I'm really shook up," Hartogs, now 65, said as he hugged the 75-year-old Schipper on Tuesday at the Los Angeles airport. Both men now live in the United States.

Schipper had filled out a form in Los Angeles, supplying Hartogs' birth name -- Max Kohen -- approximate age, and the place where he was last seen. The request was forwarded to the Baltimore tracing center and to a Red Cross tracing service in Germany. There, researchers combed through documents and found paperwork from when Hartogs changed his name.

In Gordon's case, the Red Cross' involvement began with a letter he sent, describing such things as his neighborhood in Warsaw and the Catholic church where he attended services.

Born Jerzy Budzynski, Gordon fought for the Polish resistance during the war. He survived the Nazi death camp at Buchenwald before serving as one of Gen. George Patton's Nazi hunters, helping bring war criminals to justice at Nuremburg.

During the war, he had been told his mother and sister were killed in the bombing of a hospital where the two had been rolling bandages for resistance. And they were told Gordon had been killed in a concentration camp.

Gordon's first contact with his sister, Krystyna Budzynska, in Wroclaw, Poland, was by telephone.

"When I heard her voice, I knew. A voice hardly changes, you know," he said.

When he later went to Poland, he visited his mother's grave.

"A man is not supposed to cry," he said, "but I couldn't hold back."

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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go the

Postby hermod » 5 years 7 months ago (Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:52 pm)

Werd wrote:thanks to the work of Thomas Kues and others now, we can confidently say that many Jews who survived the holocaust probably did not lost their relatives.


Even if many Jews who survived the 'Holocaust' had really lost a large part of their relatives during WW2, that would prove nothing anyway. No so-called death camps and alleged homicidal gas chambers needed for 4 million people to die from typhus in Poland alone (and 3 million in Russia) during WW1. And there are many other ways to die than typhus during a world war (other diseases, air bombings, battles, fair executions for sabotage, starvation due to war restrictions and plenty other collateral damages).

And the Berlin Wall/Iron Curtain cut 19 million Germans from their relatives and friends. No doubt it also broke many non-German families, including Jewish families.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go the

Postby Hannover » 5 years 6 months ago (Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:01 pm)

Numerous examples below of where Jews went. In this case they were transited out of the absurdly titled 'death camp' of Treblinka, which demolishes the entire 'so where are they then?'

- Hannover

from: AR Survivors / Treblinka
1. Deportations of Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto (1942)

The facts and circumstantial evidence assembled so far lead to the conclusion that Treblinka was mainly a transit camp established for the Jewish population of the Warsaw district, which fits within the framework of National Socialist policy of the resettlement of Jews to the east. The verifiable deportations to Treblinka can be explained in this sense.

One of these Jews, a Samuel Zylbersztajn, was in fact deported to Majdanek on April 30, 1943, from the alleged extermination camp Treblinka as a member of a transport of 308 Jews.[869] The translated title of the report of his experiences is "The Memoirs of an Inmate of Ten Camps." After the 'extermination camp' Treblinka, Zylbersztajn also survived the 'extermination camp' Majdanek and eight 'ordinary' concentration camps; he is thus living proof of the fact that the Germans did not systematically exterminate their Jewish prisoners.

Another 356 Jews were transferred from Treblinka to Majdanek on May 13, 1943.[870] The Jewish historians Tatiana Berenstein and Adam Rutkowski write in reference to this:[871]

"Some of the transports from Warsaw reached Lublin by way of Treblinka, where the selection of the deportees took place."

This fact is confirmed by some witnesses who were interrogated within the framework of the extradition proceedings against John Demjanjuk in the USA. In the official compilations of the interrogations,[872] which we have in our possession, the names of the witnesses have been rendered unreadable, so that we refer to the respective date, on which the interrogation occurred.

Interrogation of December 12, 1979: The witness was deported in April 1943 from Warsaw to Treblinka. On the next day he was transferred to Majdanek, where he spent 6-7 days; afterward he went to Budzyn for approximately a year. From Budzyn he was sent to Wieliczka (in the vicinity of Krakow), from there to Flossenbürg in mid-1944, and finally to Leitmeritz.

Interrogation of December 17, 1979: the witness was deported from Krakow to Płaszów, and from there to Auschwitz. After that he went to Oranienburg and finally to Flossenbürg. He stated that he spent one single day in Treblinka without giving details.

Interrogation of January 3, 1980: the witness was taken prisoner in May 1943 in Warsaw and sent directly to Majdanek, from where he was later transferred to Budzyn.

Interrogation of March 7, 1980: The witness was deported in April 1943 from Warsaw to Treblinka, where he remained for only one day; afterwards he was transferred along with 180 other prisoners to Majdanek. After two days the trip continued to Budzyn, where he spent two years. He was liberated by the Soviets from an unnamed German concentration camp.

Interrogation of March 11, 1980: the witness was sent to Treblinka in April 1943, where he remained for only a day. Transfer to Majdanek, thence to Budzyn, where he was interned for about a year. Liberated on May 5, 1945, from Mauthausen.

Interrogation of July 18, 1980: the witness was deported on April 18, 1943, from Warsaw to Majdanek. After 5 weeks he went to Auschwitz and then - toward the end of 1944 - to Gusen (a subcamp of Mauthausen) where he was liberated.

The verdict of the Jury Court of Düsseldorf determined, plainly and clearly, on September 3, 1965, that
"coming from Treblinka, several thousand people are said to have arrived at other camps."[873]

Also, the transport with 1,200 children (originally intended for Palestine[887]) between 6 and 12 years of age, which arrived in Theresienstadt on August 24,[888] traveled by way of Treblinka, which therefore served as a transit camp for these transports.

[869] Samuel Zylbersztajn, "Pamiętnik więznia dziesięciu obozów," in: Biuletyn Żydowskiego Instytutu Historycznego w Polsce, no. 68, 1968, pp. 53-56. The author explicitly gives April 30, 1943, as the date of his deportation to Treblinka.
[870] T. Mencel (ed.), Majdanek 1941-1944, Wydawnictwo Lubelskie, Lublin 1991, p. 448.
[871] Tatiana Berenstein, Adam Rutkowski, "Zydzi w obozie koncentracijnym Majdanek (1941-1944)," Biuletyn Żydowskiego Instytutu Historycznego w Polsce, No. 58, 1966, p. 16.
[872] U.S. Department of Justice. Criminal Division. Office of Investigation. Report of Investigation. Subject "Demjanjuk Ivan, Fedorenko Feodor." These protocols were enclosed with the documents in the Jerusalem Demjanjuk Trial (State of Israel vs. Ivan [John] Demjanjuk. Criminal Case No. 373/86 in the Jerusalem District Court; cf. Chapter V). We thank Dr. Miroslav Dragan who made these documents available to us.
[873] Rückerl, NS-Vernichtungslager..., op. cit. (note 62), p. 198.
[887] Brona Klibanski, "Kinder aus dem Ghetto Białystok in Teresienstadt", in: Theresienstädter Studien und Dokumente, 1995, p. 93.
[888] Terezisnká pametni kniha, op. cit. (note 570), p. 70. There a figure of 1220 Jews who arrived in Theresienstadt from Białystok is given. Obviously 20 adults who accompanied the children are included in this.

http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/10.html
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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?'

Postby Werd » 3 years 9 months ago (Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:43 pm)

Is this another example of "where the Jews went"?
viewtopic.php?p=73415#p73415
Reviso wrote:In fact, did you ever hear that there existed a German camp for Jews at Belzec already in December 1939, and that the aim of this camp was to prevent Jews from escaping into the Soviet zone ? Were the Germans so eager to keep the Jews in the German-occupied zone of Poland at this time ? According to Boisdefeu : "in September 1939, the Germans themselves had chased away tens of thousands of Jews beyond the rivers San and Bug into the Soviet zone". ("en septembre 39, les Allemands avaient eux-mêmes chassé des dizaines de milliers de juifs au-delà des rivières San et Bug dans la zone soviétique". It is here : http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres2/bdf2.pdf )
It seems that Karski mentioned this camp in a 1940 report. It would be interesting to know whether there exist other sources about this camp.
R.

viewtopic.php?p=73429#p73429
hermod wrote:
Reviso wrote:In fact, did you ever hear that there existed a German camp for Jews at Belzec already in December 1939, and that the aim of this camp was to prevent Jews from escaping into the Soviet zone ?


In early 1940, there was a reloading railway station (Standard gauge freight cars --> Russian gauge freight cars) at Belzec for the transportation of German industrial goods to the Soviet Union.

Image

I can't help with any camp for Jews there in late 1939. I don't know.


Were the Germans so eager to keep the Jews in the German-occupied zone of Poland at this time ? According to Boisdefeu : "in September 1939, the Germans themselves had chased away tens of thousands of Jews beyond the rivers San and Bug into the Soviet zone". ("en septembre 39, les Allemands avaient eux-mêmes chassé des dizaines de milliers de juifs au-delà des rivières San et Bug dans la zone soviétique". It is here : http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres2/bdf2.pdf )


According to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency (in October 1939), the new German-Soviet border had been closed in both directions by the Soviets, with the Germans allowing Polish Jews to leave their own area and go to Soviet-occupied Poland.

Red-nazi Border in Poland Closed

October 31, 1939

KAUNAS, Lithuania (Oct. 30)

The Soviet Government, it was learned here today, has closed its frontier with Nazi Poland both to incoming and outgoing persons. The Germans, at the same time, are not permitting Jews to enter Nazi-ruled Polish territory but are allowing them to leave after confiscating their property.

The Soviet measure is considered a severe blow to tens of thousands of Jews in the Nazi region who looked upon escape to Russia as their last hope. It hits especially hard separated families where the husbands were evacuated during the hostilities while wives and children were left behind on the German side.

It is reported here that negotiations to solve the problem will be initiated between Russia and Germany since a considerable number of non-Jews are prepared to return to their homes in Nazi Poland.

Vocational readjustment of the Jews in large Jewish communities in Soviet Poland is now an important problem. Cities such as Lwow, Przemysl, Tarnapol, Czortkow, Brody, Kilomyhia, Rovno, Luck, Duno, Kowel, Pinsk, Brestlitovsk, Baranovicz, Lida, Grodno and Bialystok all have large Jewish populations and are faced with this problem.

Pending readjustment, immediate relief is essential for Jewish merchants, small traders, craftsmen, small house and land owners, who are now without livelihoods.

Another serious problem is the huge number, estimated at 500,000 to 1,000,000, of refugees who escaped from the Nazi areas and are now crowding the larger cities. The refugees are sheltered in railway stations, schools, synagogues and public buildings. Some sleep on stairways and even in the streets. Adaptation of these refugees to new conditions will take months.

Meanwhile, thousands of homeless and destitute refugees are still wandering along the main railway lines in all directions, moving from place to place with their sole remaining property in bags carried on their shoulders. Headed for Lwow, Rowno, Brest-Litovsk, Bialystok and other large centers in Soviet Poland, they are trying to find missing relatives who vanished during the bombings and the chaos of evacuation.

It may take months and even years before the situation of the refugees in the Soviet Polish areas is regulated. In the first place, immense capital is needed for the task. Secondly, the problem is complicated by the attitude of the Soviet authorities in western White Russia and the West Ukraine, who declare that the Soviet Union is rich enough to handle the task itself and does not want foreign assistance.

http://www.jta.org/1939/10/31/archive/r ... and-closed


And in 1940, German forced marches of Polish Jews to the Soviet border were reported (mixed with atrocity stories, as always).

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 3976&hl=fr

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Mulegino1
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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?' / & more

Postby Mulegino1 » 3 years 4 months ago (Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:50 pm)

I've always considered the "Where did they go then?" question an admission of defeat on the part of Holocaust apologists, as it is, indeed, such an illogical question. Illogical, since the apologists claim to know exactly where the vast majority of them went, i.e., to six specific locations - Auschwitz - Birkenau, Treblinka II, Sobibor, Majdanek, Belzec, and Chelmno (you could also add Babi Yar Ravine as a seventh specific location), where they were murdered, buried or cremated or exhumed and cremated. As we all know, there is virtually no physical evidence for this at any of these locations - literally none - and no authentic documentary evidence, the apologists are, as Hilberg replied to Christie, "At a loss".

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Free Speech
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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?' / & more

Postby Free Speech » 3 years 4 months ago (Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:13 pm)

David Cole proposed in his book in regards to Treblinka: if they weren't gassed there, where did they go?

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Re: J. Graf and the illogical canard: 'Where did Jews go then?' / & more

Postby Dresden » 3 years 4 months ago (Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:53 am)

Free Speech said:

"David Cole proposed in his book in regards to Treblinka: if they weren't gassed there, where did they go?"

The answer to that is:

"If they weren't buried there, they weren't gassed there"

Where are the mass graves?

4,000,000 "people" were supposedly murdered at Auschwitz; now the total is 1,000,000.

Where did all those people go?.....what were their names?

2,000,000 Jews were supposedly gassed at Majdanek; now it's 78,000.

Where did the 2,000,000 Jews go?.....what were their names?

The same questions can be repeated for several other camps.
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith


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