Define exactly what "to the east" means

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
Dolma
Member
Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:30 pm

Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby Dolma » 5 years 6 months ago (Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:47 pm)

I'm sure everyone here knows that the orthodox holohoax storyline is Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec were "the end of the line" for jews.

We all know of the transit camp vs. extermination center debate.

But in order for there to be an effective debate about this issue, the term "to the east" must be defined exactly.

You all know that the jews will take advantage of anything that is not clearly defined, so a line must be established that clearly defines east from west.

For starters, let me suggest a line drawn from Stutthof to Treblinka to Sobibor to Belzec to ?

This is going to be the next big defeat for the holohoaxers, so revisionists should get their poop in a group ASAP, define this line exactly, then crush the holohoaxers who allege that jews are buried in huge pits at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka, and not sent further "to the east."
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.

User avatar
borjastick
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2456
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
Location: Europe

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby borjastick » 5 years 6 months ago (Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:22 am)

Good idea Dolma but I am not sure 'to the east' was actually a place or a line on the map. I always thought the 'east' meant the Russian lands that were not under German control through the war. That line may have slid east then west again though.

There is plenty of evidence and common sense to use when refuting the claims that Treblinka etc were the end of the line, not least of which is the total lack of human remains and collateral evidence to support any level of mass murder, let alone claims of 800,000 killed at Treblinka.

The reality is if someone were to want to discuss the 'death camp' of Treblinka I would ask them for the proof they believe supports the claims. Then stand back and watch their face as I pile on the detailed destruction of that 'proof'.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

Mkk
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 566
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:00 am

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby Mkk » 5 years 6 months ago (Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:32 am)

In NS terminology, as far as I know "the East" referred to the Soviet Union i.e east of the General Government of Poland.
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3303
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby Hektor » 5 years 6 months ago (Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:11 am)

Mkk wrote:In NS terminology, as far as I know "the East" referred to the Soviet Union i.e east of the General Government of Poland.


Which would mean the Baltic states previously annexed by the Soviet Union, Belarus, Ukraine and any conquered Russian territory.

That opens up the question: How many Jews were deported there and whats the evidence for that.

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby hermod » 5 years 6 months ago (Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:56 am)

Dolma wrote:But in order for there to be an effective debate about this issue, the term "to the east" must be defined exactly.

You all know that the jews will take advantage of anything that is not clearly defined, so a line must be established that clearly defines east from west.


I would put the line between the west and the east on the pre-Barbarossa demarcation line between the Soviet world and the German world. On the Bug river in other words. I think the meaning of "to the east" changed through the war in the Nazi mind. Before Operation Barbarossa the Nazis let numerous Jews living in Western Poland go to Soviet-occupied Poland until the Soviet rulers closed the border (see the newspaper article below). During Operation Barbarossa the Nazis deported numerous Jews not needed for labor and their war effort to Soviet territories, just behind their front line at that time (Russia, Ukraine, Baltic states - see Rudenko's quote below). That tends to indicate the Nazi "to the east" simply meant "as far as possible from the Reich", depending on the opportunities Nazi Germany had at different moments of the war.

Image

At Nuremberg, on February 8th 1946, Soviet IMT-Chief prosecutor general Rudenko, declared in his opening speech:

"Upon investigations by the Extraordinary State Commission of the Soviet Union, it was found that at the front, behind their main line of defense, the Hitlerites had systematically constructed special concentration camps where they kept tens of thousands of children, women who were unfit for work, and old men".

He continued:

"I must name the concentration camps of Smolensk (Russia), Stavropol (Russia), Kharkov (Ukraine), Kiev (Ukraine), Lvov (Ukraine), Poltava (Ukraine), Novgorod (Russia), Orel (Russia), Rovno (Ukraine), Dniepropetrovsk (Ukraine), Odessa (Ukraine), Kamenetz-Podolsk (Russia), Gomel (White Russia), Kerch (Ukraine), of the Stalingrad region (Russia), of Kaunas (Lithuania), Riga (Latvia), Mariampol (Lithuania) of Kloga (Estonia) and many others [...]". [IMT, VII, 180] http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-08-46.asp

Three of these camps were described in detail in document USSR-4: “On March 19, 1944, Soviet forces find in Polesia (White Russia), inside the German defense line three concentration camps in Ozaritschi, between Minsk and Kiev; in those camps there were more than 33.000 children, women, elderly people and people unfit for work".
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
TheBlackRabbitofInlé
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:38 am

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:09 pm)

hermod wrote:
At Nuremberg, on February 8th 1946, Soviet IMT-Chief prosecutor general Rudenko, declared in his opening speech:

"Upon investigations by the Extraordinary State Commission of the Soviet Union, it was found that at the front, behind their main line of defense, the Hitlerites had systematically constructed special concentration camps where they kept tens of thousands of children, women who were unfit for work, and old men".

He continued:

"I must name the concentration camps of Smolensk (Russia), Stavropol (Russia), Kharkov (Ukraine), Kiev (Ukraine), Lvov (Ukraine), Poltava (Ukraine), Novgorod (Russia), Orel (Russia), Rovno (Ukraine), Dniepropetrovsk (Ukraine), Odessa (Ukraine), Kamenetz-Podolsk (Russia), Gomel (White Russia), Kerch (Ukraine), of the Stalingrad region (Russia), of Kaunas (Lithuania), Riga (Latvia), Mariampol (Lithuania) of Kloga (Estonia) and many others [...]". [IMT, VII, 180] http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-08-46.asp

Three of these camps were described in detail in document USSR-4: “On March 19, 1944, Soviet forces find in Polesia (White Russia), inside the German defense line three concentration camps in Ozaritschi, between Minsk and Kiev; in those camps there were more than 33.000 children, women, elderly people and people unfit for work".


That's very interesting. Who are you quoting there?
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

Breker
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 744
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 5:39 pm
Location: Europa

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby Breker » 5 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:16 pm)

Isn't he quoting Rudenko?
At Nuremberg, on February 8th 1946, Soviet IMT-Chief prosecutor general Rudenko, declared in his opening speech: ...

B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

User avatar
TheBlackRabbitofInlé
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:38 am

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:25 pm)

Hermod appears, at least to me, to be quoting someone quoting Rudenko, and document USSR-4.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby hermod » 5 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:56 pm)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:That's very interesting. Who are you quoting there?


I first read about that information in the book "La Controverse sur l’extermination des Juifs par les Allemands" by the Belgian French-speaking revisionist Jean-Marie Boisdefeu, aka Maurice Haas-Colle (http://www.vho.org/aaargh/fran/bsdf/bdf2/preuves.html - point 14). Then I looked for more information about that and I delivered what I've found. I put quotation marks because I was quoting something I wrote in other threads.

It's interesting to note that document USSR-4 was produced by the Soviets in order to blame the Germans for an alleged germ warfare. According to the Soviets, the Nazis had built those special concentration camps for people "unfit for work" near the front line with the intent to spread typhus among the Soviet troops.

Boisdefeu thought (he's dead now) that the city refered in document USSR-4 wasn't Ozaritschi in White Russia (Belarus) but Ozarintsy, a little city of Ukraine located between Vinnytsia and Kamenetz-Podolsk. Maybe the Soviets changed the story because they didn't want to talk about Vinnytsia, a place where Hitler had exhumed and exposed thousands of corpses killed by the Soviets (my interpretation, not Boisdefeu's).
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
TheBlackRabbitofInlé
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 834
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:38 am

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:20 pm)

I'd guessed it was probably something in French.

That looks a very interesting article by Boisdefeu, even though I need Google Translate to read it. Thanks for linking it.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby hermod » 5 years 6 months ago (Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:20 pm)

TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:That looks a very interesting article by Boisdefeu, even though I need Google Translate to read it. Thanks for linking it.


You're welcome. :)
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3303
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby Hektor » 5 years 6 months ago (Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:53 am)

hermod wrote:
TheBlackRabbitofInlé wrote:...
It's interesting to note that document USSR-4 was produced by the Soviets in order to blame the Germans for an alleged germ warfare. According to the Soviets, the Nazis had built those special concentration camps for people "unfit for work" near the front line with the intent to spread typhus among the Soviet troops.
....

They seem to have mentioned those camps by name here:
The names have already been mentioned here of the camps of Maidanek and Auschwitz with their gas-chambers, in which over 5,500,000 completely innocent people, citizens of Poland, Czechoslovakia, U.S.S.R., U.S.A., Great Britain, France, and other democratic countries were killed. I must name the concentration camps of Smolensk, Stavropol, Kharkov, Kiev, Lvov, Poltava, Novgorod, Orel, Rovno, Dniepropetrovsk, Odessa, Kamenetz-Podolsk, Gomel, Kerch, of the Stalingrad region, of Kaunas, Riga, Mariampol (Lithuanian) of Kloga (Estonian) and many others, in which hundreds of thousands of Soviet nationals belonging to the civilian population, as well as soldiers and officers of the Red Army, were tortured to death by the Hitlerites.

The Germans also carried out mass shootings of Soviet citizens in the Lisenitz forest, which is on the outskirts of Lvov in the direction of Tarnopol. It was to this forest that the Germans daily drove, or brought in motor vehicles, large parties of Soviet prisoners of war from the Citadel camp, internees from the Yanov camp and from the Lvov prison, as well as peaceful Soviet citizens who had been seized on the squares and streets of Lvov in the course of numerous roundups. Investigations made by the Extraordinary State Commission of the Soviet Union established the fact that the Germans shot over 200,000 people in the Lisenitz forest.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-08-46.asp

Mkk
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 566
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:00 am

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby Mkk » 5 years 6 months ago (Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:22 pm)

The camp at Kloga is already known to Holocaustians, and the media mentioned a concentration camp in Kiev during the "death match" film fiasco.

On the other hand, some of the camps listed may be Soviet propaganda inventions, "where thousands were tortured to death by Hitlerites". I wouldn't take it as a smoking gun proof but interesting nonetheless.
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

User avatar
hermod
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2076
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:52 am

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby hermod » 5 years 6 months ago (Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:27 pm)

Hektor wrote:They seem to have mentioned those camps by name here:


Already quoted earlier in this thread, but without the "tortured to death by the Hitlerites" part, empty Soviet atrocity propaganda completely useless historically speaking.


Mkk wrote:"where thousands were tortured to death by Hitlerites". I wouldn't take it as a smoking gun proof but interesting nonetheless.


Indeed. Even if the academic so-called 'historians' surprisingly regard Soviet propaganda as a reliable source of information - not as the laughable pack of lies it was - ONLY when the Holy 'Holocaust' is concerned. I wonder why. Is that because the contrary would damage their precious little career? :twisted:
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

Dolma
Member
Member
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:30 pm

Re: Define exactly what "to the east" means

Postby Dolma » 5 years 6 months ago (Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:50 pm)

I hope you gents understand, but this thread isn't about the camps in the east per se, but the line that seperates east from west.

Remember now, I'm not talking about what the Germans considered the line to be, I'm talking about the line that is to be used to prove that the holohoaxers are lying through their teeth when they say that jews were transited hundreds of miles to remote secret locations so they could be murdered in homicidal gas chambers in the specialy constructed "pure extermination centers" - and not an inch farther.

Remember, that is the excuse given when asked why the jews weren't killed where they were found. So there is no reason at all, if the orthodox story is true, that a jew would have been transported an inch beyond one of the so-called "pure exterminaion centers."

So one can draw a line from Treblinka to Sobibor to Belzec - that is the easy part to figure out. But what I'm asking here is:

Where should the line north from Treblinka be drawn and where should the line south from Belzec be drawn?

I hope you all see what I'm trying to get at here.

Thanks.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 6 guests