SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

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Friedrich Paul Berg
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SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 6 years 3 months ago (Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:24 pm)

The alleged use of "Slave Labor" by Nazi Germany is frequently raised. It is a thoroughly bogus claim but typical of the pseudo-scholarship that still prevails and passed around by people like Cerdic on the RODOH Forum.

Read the following: "Foreign Workers in the Third Reich" by OSTR Hans-Jürgen Witzsch http://vho.org/tr/2003/3/Witzsch312-321.html

Eastern European workers were well paid and treated fantastically well, especially by any Soviet standards. They were "slaves" only in the same sense that all workers in capitalist countries are regarded as "wage slaves" by communists generally.

I can pass on some of what I learned from acquaintances over many years. One acquaintance was from the Caucasus who had escaped the Soviet reconquest of his homeland. He went west with the Germans and ended up in a German labor camp in the Ruhr. For some unknown reason, however, there was no work for him (perhaps he was too young and unskilled--or maybe no factory left to go to?) and so he spent several months idle, mostly in the camp. However, he remembered receiving some "spending money" from the Germans every week to buy anything he could which amounted to generally personal items like toothpaste and snacks, etc. It wasn't much but it helped make his life pass rather easily.

Another friend, Frank Speelmann, was a flying instructor in the Luftwaffe--but he had worked for Krupp before his enlistment and after the war until his death nearly fifty years later. He was a "Kruppianer" through and through. He remembered visits to the Krupp mills during the war where he saw many foreign workers working side-by-side with German workers and receiving the exact same pay for the same work--without any guards at all.

Three other acquaintances, one Georgian designer-draftsman and two Hungarian Jewish engineers, one named Laszlo Biro told me essentially the same stories about their wartime in Nazi Germany. They had no complaints at all as far as I could gather.

The claim that there were "slaves," even as many as 12 million eastern European "slaves" in Germany, is more of the same anti-German racist filth that we know so well. One more little secret about the "holocaust" is that the Jews got paid for their work--and that explains so much. That was, no doubt, why so many Jews including Elie and his father "chose" to go west with the retreating Nazis rather than be "liberated" by Stalin' s forces. Did they always get paid what they wanted or expected? Of course, not--but who does? Some Polish Jews even traveled rather freely in Germany to negotiate deals for the products of their factories in Poland and to secure raw materials and equipment. It was all carefully controlled with security passes and police checks--but that was totally different from the obscene vision that we are given by Cerdic on the RODOH forum.

Auschwitz served essentially the same role as Ellis Island did for the US. The same role for Auschwitz was to process eastern European workers, including Jews, and make sure they were free of highly contagious diseases like typhus before their actual entry into Germany and into well-paid jobs. The Jewish "survivors" accounts that we have, even on YouTube, give some evidence of this. Jews who went west have, however, no interest today in talking about this except to lie about it. An example is the YouTube account by Maria Braun who declined my challenge to debate through an intermediary. Shame on them all!

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The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby Hektor » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:30 am)

Those aliens that worked in Germany during world war II were partially voluntary, partially conscripted labor. The contract had some stiff clauses that you couldn't cancel it easily, but that is as far as it goes. That's why the less dishonest court historians don't call it slave labor, but save the label for concentration camp inmates that had to work. Doesn't mean that this is true, because to be a slave a person must be sold like a property. There are no documents that show the Germans offered people for sale. Hence the court historians are lying again.

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:58 am)

Hektor wrote:Those aliens that worked in Germany during world war II were partially voluntary, partially conscripted labor. The contract had some stiff clauses that you couldn't cancel it easily, but that is as far as it goes. That's why the less dishonest court historians don't call it slave labor, but save the label for concentration camp inmates that had to work. Doesn't mean that this is true, because to be a slave a person must be sold like a property. There are no documents that show the Germans offered people for sale. Hence the court historians are lying again.
It was wartime. No one seems to question that, in wartime, the state has the right to seize civilians against their will and force them into military service under severe discipline to fight and die or suffer horrible injury under atrocious conditions.

If this right is once accepted it is hard to see how you can deny a similar right to conscript other civilians for labour, and to retain them under similar disciplinary conditions. (In Britain this happened to the "Bevin boys", the 1 in 10 conscripts who were allocated to the coal mines.) The only difference I can see is that the Germans conscripted civilian labour from non-German nationalities and held them in prison conditions, since otherwise they would have escaped/deserted. I don't think buying and selling are relevant here. Whether the the term "slave labour" is justified is more a matter of the conditions, but again, are those conditions really worse than those of the boys, German, Russian and others, "dragged from their homes" and sent to do battle on the Eastern front?

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby Occam's Razor » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:53 am)

Kingfisher wrote:
The only difference I can see is that the Germans conscripted civilian labour from non-German nationalities and held them in prison conditions, since otherwise they would have escaped/deserted.


Lots of POW were distributed to local farms in Germany to work / help there and they lived on these farms during the war. Together with the German families. And no iron chains or anything like that. Not really "prison conditions". I'm sure that lots of other POW and also some foreign labourers were held under conditions that could be described as "prison-like", but you never hear anything about this side of the story. And I certainly agree with the rest of your post.

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby hermod » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:17 am)

At Nuremberg Goering vehemently opposed the term "slave labor", but that was useless. The script was already written before the beginning of the parody of justice.

21 March 46

GEN. RUDENKO: You do not deny that this was forced labor, slavery?

Goering: Slavery, that I deny. Forced labor did of course partly come into it, and the reason for that I have already stated.

GEN. RUDENKO: But they were forcibly taken out of their countries and sent to Germany?

Goering: To a certain extent deported forcibly, and I have already explained why.

[...]

GEN. RUDENKO: They were taken to Germany only in the interest of security and safety?

Goering: There were two reasons. I have already explained them in detail. Firstly, for security reasons. Secondly, because it was necessary to find labor.

GEN. RUDENKO: And for that reason -- let us take the second, the necessity of finding labor -- people were forcibly taken from their country and sent to slavery in Germany. Is that correct?

Goering: Not to slavery; they were sent to Germany to work

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/03-21-46.asp
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby Landulf » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:00 am)

Its ironic to hear Rudenko, a representative from a country that is built on murder, deportation and slave labour. :bootyshake:

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby Mkk » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:13 pm)

Has there ever been a study of how many of the workers were voluntary and how many were forced? Ofcourse i'm not saying such categories are easy to define. I've seen some testimonies by von Schirach and others at the IMT which indicated good working conditions generally.

During a war, a state can expect ITS OWN CITIZENS to bare arms or perform labor, but surely it's a different thing morally and legally (If I remember correctly) to expect other states citizens, including those states you are at war with, to do that?
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby hermod » 6 years 3 months ago (Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:53 pm)

SLAVE LABOUR IN THE CENTURY

In August 1946 15 months after the end of the Second World War, according to the International Red Cross, "Britain had 460,000 German prisoners slaving for her."

This was in direct contravention of the Geneva Convention (Enslavement of Prisoners-of-War is a violation of the Geneva Convention. Article.75) which Britain was a signatory to.

Arthur Veysey of the Chicago Tribune Press Service on May 28th 1946 reported "When they (German POWs) learned upon arrival in British and French ports they were to be worked indefinitely as slaves, they became sullen."


PROFITING FROM GERMAN SLAVES

Arthur Veysey appalled by the British government’s abuse of human rights and the illegality of its evil slave-ownership policies and defiance of the Geneva Convention said, "The British Government nets over $250,000,000 annually from its slaves. The Government, which frankly calls itself the 'owner' of the prisoners, hires the men out to any employer needing men, charging the going rate for such work, usually $15 to $20 a week. It pays the slaves from 10 to 20 cents a day. The prisoners are never paid in cash, but are given credits either in the form of vouchers or credits."

http://the-anti-hegelian-dailect-blog.b ... -part.html
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:21 am)

Occam's Razor wrote:Kingfisher wrote:
The only difference I can see is that the Germans conscripted civilian labour from non-German nationalities and held them in prison conditions, since otherwise they would have escaped/deserted.


Lots of POW were distributed to local farms in Germany to work / help there and they lived on these farms during the war. Together with the German families. And no iron chains or anything like that. Not really "prison conditions". I'm sure that lots of other POW and also some foreign labourers were held under conditions that could be described as "prison-like", but you never hear anything about this side of the story. And I certainly agree with the rest of your post.

I am personally aware of this side of the story. My wife's grandfather was a French POW sent to work on a farm (the job he had done in France) and always said he was well treated.

Another French family member taken prisoner in 1940 found himself in Lithuania in 1944 and was captured by the Russians. He reported that treatment by the Russians was pretty bad. I have little detail about this as he did not survive long after his return.

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby Occam's Razor » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:58 am)

Kingfisher!!! Post number 1000!!! Congratulations!!!

:wav:

:occasion2: :occasion5: :occasion6: :occasion7:

With my own posting frequency I will reach my 1000th post in about 70 years, in 2084.

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby Mkk » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:33 pm)

@ The text posted above:

Use of labour of POWs is perfectly customary and legal except if the prisoners are used in war industries AFAIK. To my knowledge, the German prisoners in the UK were used on farms - if anyone can cite instances of them being used in war production factories, please post. All indications I have ever seen is that generally German POWs in the UK were treated exceptionally well and many even remained in this country after release.

This was quite customary - Germany retained its French POWs after the armistice, but slowly returned them over the next 4 years. The French POWs were also well treated, as were Britons and Americans.

Anyway, I don't think the subject here is POW labour (which almost noone I am aware of really objects to) but rather foreign labour and KZ labour.

I cant find anything in the 75th article of the Geneva Convention of 1929 (nor the 1949 one) relating to enslavement of POWs. I wish people would specify which convention they are talking about, since there are 4 of them. :?
"Truth is hate for those who hate the truth"- Auchwitz lies, p.13

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby borjastick » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:59 pm)

Yes well done to old Kingfisher.

He's now a member of the Mille High Club...
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby Kingfisher » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:56 pm)

Occam's Razor wrote:Kingfisher!!! Post number 1000!!! Congratulations!!!

:wav:

:occasion2: :occasion5: :occasion6: :occasion7:

With my own posting frequency I will reach my 1000th post in about 70 years, in 2084.
Thanks OR. But you clearly go for quality over quantity. :)

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby Hannover » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:03 pm)

The self righteous 'Allies' have always tried to hide their part in slave labor and the miserable conditions they placed upon Japanese residents and others who were sent to Allied Concentration Camps, examples:
http://www.yesnet.yk.ca/schools/projects/canadianhistory/camps/internment1.html

Japanese Canadians were being punished for a crime they didn't commit. Canada's only defence for it's actions was that Japanese people were not white and they "could" be Japanese spies. Innocent Japanese Canadians were stripped of their rights, issued special clothing, humiliated, thrown behind barb wire fences, and were forced to do manual labour.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_fema05.htm

Thousands of these prisoners were exploited for farm labor in the heartland, ...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4310157

In "Passing Poston: An American Story," a documentary premiering this month, filmmakers Joe Fox and James Nubile disclose a surprising and little-known secret about the Poston internment camp in the Arizona desert. Poston was built on the Colorado River Indian Reservation for a specific reason: Japanese detainees were brought to the desolate location to provide free, forced labor for the American government.

"Japanese internment was the justification needed for the expenditure of federal funds," said Sosi. Once the Japanese were in place, their labor in the torrid heat of the desert made the reservation livable enough to attract the Indians — and fulfill Collier's plans.

In this time of racial discrimination and hatred for the Japanese, the plan was a way to displace one group of unwelcome people and use their hard work to build the infrastructure so another displaced group of people — American Indians — could be isolated there after the war. The irony of this was not lost on Okimoto.

"What better opportunity than to have free, confined laborers in Poston?" asked Okimoto. "And that's what Commissioner Collier figured would be the best way to fulfill a project that he had been working on for years."

http://la8period3.pbworks.com/w/page/25942447/Living%20Conditions%20of%20Japanese%20American%20Internment%20Camps

At the camps, sometimes entire families lived in small, one room cells or barracks. Also, meals were distributed three times a day in mess halls where portions were small and dull. Several people died in these camps due to stress and lack of medical care.
Housing conditions for Japanese Americans in internment camps were very different from the average home. Japanese were housed in barracks; sometimes entire families live in one room cells (McGill). Internment camps were sometimes located in remote areas where weather conditions weren’t always favorable, such as Manzanar and Tulelake in California ("Relocation Camps"). Japanese also had to use communal areas for washing, laundry, and eating ("World War II-Japanese"). Mine Okubo describes the conditions of the camps, “The camps represented a prison: no freedom, no privacy, no ‘America’” (Okubo 2). Internment camps were also guarded by US military personnel (World War II-Japanese), and a barb wire perimeter (McGill).
Anyone doing heavy or outdoor work states they are not getting nearly enough to eat and they are hungry all the time ...

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/internment1.html

Japanese Americans were housed in "tarpaper-covered barracks of simple frame construction without plumbing or cooking facilities of any kind. Coal was hard to come by, and internees slept under as many blankets as they were alloted. Food was rationed out at an expense of 48 cents per internee, and served by fellow internees in a mess hall of 250-300 people.
While Japanese-Americans comprised the overwhelming majority of those in the camps, thousands of Americans of German, Italian, and other European descent were also forced to relocate there. Many more were classified as "enemy aliens" and subject to increased restrictions.

The tide is turning.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: SLAVE LABOR in Nazi Germany

Postby hermod » 6 years 3 months ago (Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:37 pm)

Mkk wrote:@ The text posted above:

Use of labour of POWs is perfectly customary and legal except if the prisoners are used in war industries AFAIK. To my knowledge, the German prisoners in the UK were used on farms - if anyone can cite instances of them being used in war production factories, please post.


Treaties, agreements and conventions are toilet paper when you're fighting a life-or-death war against the Soviet, American and British giants. Foreign labourers and prisoners were needed in the German war industries, so they were used in the German war industries. Period.


This was quite customary - Germany retained its French POWs after the armistice, but slowly returned them over the next 4 years.


A real heaven on earth when compared to the life of German POW's in the Allied French-administered camps. Even the American soldiers were shocked by the way German POW's were treated in those camps. That speaks volumes.


Anyway, I don't think the subject here is POW labour (which almost noone I am aware of really objects to) but rather foreign labour and KZ labour.


Always interesting to look at what the so-morally-superior preachy Allies did at that time, even if you don't like that. :roll:
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915


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