David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 9 months ago (Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:31 pm)

astro3 wrote:My admiration for David Cole/Stein has somewhat imploded, if it turns out he believes in piles of burning bodies:

Big outdoor pits, not crematoriums, were used for burning bodies


In the damp, damp ground of Auschwitz?

That's just Jewish logic.
He's talking about Treblinka, not Auschwitz.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby The _Seeker » 5 years 9 months ago (Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:35 pm)

Thames Darwin wrote:I think its clear that Cole has been compromised, one way or another. It was a mistake to trust him in the first place, IMHO. He is what he is.


I don't think he's compromised, he just came to the wrong conclusion about the 42/43 period at those four camps. What I'm interested in, as he catches up on everything that's come out since he got out of revisionism in 1998, if he changes his opinions on that period.

He does appear open to changing his opinion, because as stated in his book, "Because of the secrecy surrounding those four extermination camps, and the fact that they were ploughed under and erased from existence in 1943, it's difficult to be precise about certain details. And we do know that some Jews were sent to those camps as a throughway to other destinations. But, more than enough circumstantial evidence shows that for most Jews, the train ride to those camps was one-way, and final"

So all he has is some circumstantial evidence, none of which mentions actually killing Jews.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby widmann » 5 years 9 months ago (Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:38 pm)

As noted by others, "Appendix A" is where Cole provides his current thoughts / beliefs on the Holocaust. Overall this is an interesting section, with many useful points. It appears however that this section was written for a "mainstream" audience that would not question the "official" Holocaust story. Therefore, any revisionist claims are backed up with some amount of facts and evidence. The "Standard Story" as Cole calls it doesn't appear to need such back up. So while he writes that the standard tale that "gas chambers were technological marvels" is "pure bullshit," he makes this odd assertion, "The gas chambers were simply rooms with no windows, a locked door, and car exhaust piped in. Big outdoor pits, not crematoriums, were used for burning bodies. If cavemen had cars and an accelerant, this is how they'd commit genocide." (p. 309).

Cole provides virtually no support for his "car exhaust / cavemen" thesis.

This idea is essentially the absolute opposite of the views of Friedrich Berg, who for years pointed out that the NS regime, far from cavemen, had sophisticated technology and capabilities for mass murder - should they have wanted to use them. I made similar points in my article, "German Poison Gas (1914 - 1944)" : http://codoh.com/library/document/976/

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby borjastick » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:36 am)

I think this is all a bit of a wild goose chase. There is no doubt in my mind that David Cole was and probably still is an entrenched revisionist. His work on Auschwitz, both written in things like the 46 questions, and his videos were a significant body of work and pushed the revisionist case into the mainstream where it had never been before.

However there was wiggle room as he tended to steer clear of the AR camps.

My feeling is that this book is not written for revisionism at all but for a massive and very pushy political class in the US. I also feel that by saying holocaust inclusive things he circumvents some obvious criticism. In a way it gives him a get out of jail card with those Jewish media types in places like Fox and Viacom owned outlets.

But it all boils down to one thing: HE HAS A BOOK TO SELL!
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Mala » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:12 pm)

Seeker:

He [Cole] claims: That Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzek, and Chelmno were death camps in 42/43. To support this, he cites a statistical report provided to Himmler by Richard Korherr which stated the number of murdered Jews was 2,419,656 (1,786,356 killed in those death camps, and 633,300 killed on the Eastern front).


What physical evidence does he cite to support his claim that 1,786,356 jews were killed at Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzek, and Chelmno in 42/43?

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:23 pm)

Mala wrote:Seeker:

He [Cole] claims: That Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzek, and Chelmno were death camps in 42/43. To support this, he cites a statistical report provided to Himmler by Richard Korherr which stated the number of murdered Jews was 2,419,656 (1,786,356 killed in those death camps, and 633,300 killed on the Eastern front).


What physical evidence does he cite to support his claim that 1,786,356 jews were killed at Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzek, and Chelmno in 42/43?
None.

[what is below added in an edit but no one had yet posted after]

Richard:
Cole was countering the oft-made assertion that the Germans used sophisticated technology in the gas chambers. He is arguing that it was largely improvised, though how exactly this explains the transport of nearly a million people to one place where they are then killed is a bit difficult to understand.

We have to bear in mind that when Cole was active the Rheinhard camps were not particularly to the fore. Graf and Mattogno's Treblinka had not been written, nor OTOTH made,so he may well not be familiar with the arguments. Certainly he just repeats the outline of the mainstream story without supporting evidence.

There is a certain integrity that you have to respect in that he can hold two views, Zionism and Holocaust revisionism, which are not in themselves incompatible, in the full knowledge that most of those who support him for the one are going likely to feel considerable antagonism towards him for the other. The David Cole I find on reading the book is very different from the picture I had. I still have to like and respect him, though.

Is the first he has come out with on Treblinka, etc.? Hadn't he previously only talked about Natzweiler?

I wish him well and I hope he can beat his alcohol problem, but I'm not optimistic.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby cold beer » 5 years 9 months ago (Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:29 am)

Mala wrote:Seeker:

He [Cole] claims: That Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzek, and Chelmno were death camps in 42/43. To support this, he cites a statistical report provided to Himmler by Richard Korherr which stated the number of murdered Jews was 2,419,656 (1,786,356 killed in those death camps, and 633,300 killed on the Eastern front).


What physical evidence does he cite to support his claim that 1,786,356 jews were killed at Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzek, and Chelmno in 42/43?

What does he give as evidence for the existence and authenticity of this report?

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby cold beer » 5 years 9 months ago (Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:59 am)

Thames Darwin wrote:I think its clear that Cole has been compromised, one way or another. It was a mistake to trust him in the first place, IMHO. He is what he is.


You and I share the same, or close to the same opinion.
I'm not convinced he was compromised.

Whether he was intended as controlled opposition or not, the effect is the same.
From an exterminationist's vantage point the argument becomes...
"Even David Cole admits that the Germans were executing Jews in great numbers under the oversight of the top brass of the German military."

The best approach for a revisionist is to never cite the works of David Cole or David Irving as that of revisionists.
Their works should be treated as that of exterminationists with revisionists taking the position that even these two exterminationists deny the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz, both of whom have argued that major elements of the holocaust narrative are replete with fraud.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby hermod » 5 years 9 months ago (Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:51 am)

cold beer wrote:
Mala wrote:Seeker:

He [Cole] claims: That Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzek, and Chelmno were death camps in 42/43. To support this, he cites a statistical report provided to Himmler by Richard Korherr which stated the number of murdered Jews was 2,419,656 (1,786,356 killed in those death camps, and 633,300 killed on the Eastern front).


What physical evidence does he cite to support his claim that 1,786,356 jews were killed at Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzek, and Chelmno in 42/43?

What does he give as evidence for the existence and authenticity of this report?


As far as I know, nobody challenges the authenticity of the Korherr report today. But one can say that the Korherr report dealt with murdered Jews only by using the ridiculous "Nazi code words and euphemisms" interpretation.

The Korherr report stated that 633,300 Jews were evacuated from "the Russian Territories including the former Baltic countries since the beginning of the Eastern Campaign" and 1,786,356 Jews were evacuated "from Reich territory (except Theresienstadt) including the Eastern Territories and also from territories under German control or influence between October 1939 and December 30 1942", nothing else. The exterminationist thesis stands only if one accepts that "evacuated" in fact meant "murdered". Interestingly, the Korherr report stated that: "The evacuations of Jews from Slovakia and Croatia were carried out by these countries themselves". So ones has to claim that Slovakia and Croatia shot and gassed "their" Jews to support the exterminationist thesis. Were there Slovakian and Croatian Einsatzgruppen and homicidal gas chambers killing Jews en masse during WW2*? I'm not aware of such things. Thus, "evacuated" couldn't mean "murdered".




* The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM) claims that what's in the Korherr report is not true and Slovakia's Jews were turned over to the Germans, who then exterminated these Jews in the alleged gas chambers of Poland's "death camps".

The Slovak authorities then transported the Jews to the border of the Government General or the German Reich and turned them over to German SS and police. German authorities killed virtually all of these Jews in Auschwitz, Lublin/Majdanek, Sobibor, and other locations in German-occupied Poland.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10007324

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby hermod » 5 years 9 months ago (Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:59 am)

cold beer wrote:
Thames Darwin wrote:I think its clear that Cole has been compromised, one way or another. It was a mistake to trust him in the first place, IMHO. He is what he is.


You and I share the same, or close to the same opinion.
I'm not convinced he was compromised.

Whether he was intended as controlled opposition or not, the effect is the same.
From an exterminationist's vantage point the argument becomes...
"Even David Cole admits that the Germans were executing Jews in great numbers under the oversight of the top brass of the German military."

The best approach for a revisionist is to never cite the works of David Cole or David Irving as that of revisionists.
Their works should be treated as that of exterminationists with revisionists taking the position that even these two exterminationists deny the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz, both of whom have argued that major elements of the holocaust narrative are replete with fraud.


I agree with you, guys. And I add Mark Weber to the list. Mark Weber wrote great articles in the 1990's, but he looks totally corrupt today.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby cold beer » 5 years 9 months ago (Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:52 am)

hermod wrote:I agree with you, guys. And I add Mark Weber to the list. Mark Weber wrote great articles in the 1990's, but he looks totally corrupt today.

Maybe he always was.
Confidence games are as old as time.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby cold beer » 5 years 9 months ago (Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:01 am)

hermod wrote:As far as I know, nobody challenges the authenticity of the Korherr report today. But one can say that the Korherr report dealt with murdered Jews only by using the ridiculous "Nazi code words and euphemisms" interpretation.

The Korherr report stated that 633,300 Jews were evacuated from "the Russian Territories including the former Baltic countries since the beginning of the Eastern Campaign" and 1,786,356 Jews were evacuated "from Reich territory (except Theresienstadt) including the Eastern Territories and also from territories under German control or influence between October 1939 and December 30 1942", nothing else. The exterminationist thesis stands only if one accepts that "evacuated" in fact meant "murdered". Interestingly, the Korherr report stated that: "The evacuations of Jews from Slovakia and Croatia were carried out by these countries themselves". So ones has to claim that Slovakia and Croatia shot and gassed "their" Jews to support the exterminationist thesis. Were there Slovakian and Croatian Einsatzgruppen and homicidal gas chambers killing Jews en masse during WW2*? I'm not aware of such things. Thus, "evacuated" couldn't mean "murdered".

* The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum (USHMM) claims that what's in the Korherr report is not true and Slovakia's Jews were turned over to the Germans, who then exterminated these Jews in the alleged gas chambers of Poland's "death camps".

The Slovak authorities then transported the Jews to the border of the Government General or the German Reich and turned them over to German SS and police. German authorities killed virtually all of these Jews in Auschwitz, Lublin/Majdanek, Sobibor, and other locations in German-occupied Poland.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php ... d=10007324


Incredible.
Based on what you reveal about this report anyone who is extending the benefit of doubt to his motives (for making claims of gassings and mass open air cremations), is to put it mildly, misguided.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Hannover » 5 years 9 months ago (Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:01 pm)

As for Korherr, he himself refutes the absurd assertions about his statistics.
Korherr letter to Der Spiegel, n.28, 7/1977, p72-74:
The well-known, racially persecuted writer H.G. Adler, previously resident in Prague, now in London, wrote in the foreword to the second edition to his extraordinary book Theresienstadt 1941-1945 in 1960:
"It has definitely been determined that the designation of Dr. Korherr as SS-statistician...is not true, because he never belonged to the SS and has been rehabilitated insofar as his behaviour in the National Socialist years is concerned."

Unfortunately, Der Spiegel is publishing the claim of the English historian Irving that in the spring of 1942, at Himmler's order, I calculated the number of Jewish victims. In fact, these figures along with the text were delivered to me in completed form by the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) with the order that not one word or figure was to be changed.

The statement that I had claimed in this regard that more than a million Jews had died as a result of special treatment in the camps in German-occupied Poland and in the Warthegau is also incorrect. I have to protest against the word "died" in this context.

It was precisely the term "special treatment" (sonderbehandlung) that motivated me to inquire of the RSHA by telephone what this term meant. I received the answer that it referred to Jews who would be settled in the District of Lublin.
Dr. Richard Korherr
Braunschweig
Nr. 28, July 1977, p. 72-74, Der SPIEGEL, an article commenting on the controversy surrounding David Irving's book "Hitler's War" under the title : HITLER -- Kecke Revision.
Korherr's letter appears among a series of reactions ("Hitler gegen Irving") by people like Robert M. W. Kempner or the historians John Toland and Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm An English translation of the letter was presented during Udo Walendy's testimony at the Zündel trial 1988.

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent racist Jewish supremacists demand that there be no open debate.
Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.


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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Werd » 5 years 9 months ago (Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:20 pm)

Haldan wrote:I suppose most people must have read this post by Mr. Cole?

Here is an excerpt:

David Cole/Stein wrote:Are you and Shermer clinically insane? Writing up a “recantation” and demanding that I read it on camera as though these are my own thoughts and opinions? Is this the Hanoi Hilton? Okay, you’re a lawyer, Jenn. You might not know history. But Sherm claims to be both a scientist and a historian. Surely, he must be aware of how bad it will look for a so-called skeptic, scientist, and “freethinker” to demand that someone with whom he disagrees be forced, under threat of legal action, to publicly read a pre-written statement of recantation in which the threatened party is told what to say, is ordered to say it verbatim, and is threatened with repercussions if he doesn’t publicly recant his sincerely held views.


-haldan


Look at some of the morons here.
On the Randi forum.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=10053607

Walter Ego 3rd June 2014, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Mondial View Post
The publisher of Skeptic Magazine Michael Shermer has taken legal action to try and halt the distribution of a new book by David Cole called Republican Party Animal - http://www.countercontempt.com/archives/5232


The link is to David Cole's page. Cole was a Holocaust denier and has not been known in the past for his honesty. A skeptic would want to hear Shermer's side of the story before drawing any conclusions.

Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
Shermer was in the wrong here, and the case has been dropped. Shermer clearly misrepresented things to his own lawyers.

Citation (with link please)?

ETA:

The only information I can find about this is from little David Cole running around the internet whining about what a bad man Shermer is. I did find this, however, from The Guardian of May 3 of last year.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/m ... evisionist


And,
Walter Ego 4th June 2014, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
It's very clear that the exchange between Cole and the attorneys is legitimate, but since you refuse to look at it, you'd hardly be expected to be aware of that. If it's not, we'll soon be hearing about Shermer suing Cole for defamation and slander. I'm not holding my breath.

I don't really see why you're participating in a thread for which you refuse to read the relevant source material.

I'm willing to read the "source material" but I'd rather have it from a more credible source that Cole/Stein, a known liar and fraud. Until then, as a skeptic, I'll continue to give Shermer the benefit of the doubt.

So what does that mean? That Cole made up or forged the name of a legal firm in California? If Cole is lying then why the hell are the sycophants at the skeptic forum trying to cover up for Shermer?

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=23534
Legal matters are off limits

Post #1 Postby Pyrrho » Sat May 31, 2014 9:12 pm

The legal dispute between Michael Shermer and other parties are off limits for discussion in this forum.

I have moved one such discussion offline and I will continue to do so at my discretion.

Keep your discussions on topic, please, and not on legal situations that this forum will not be made part of.

ETA: The organization has not asked me to take this action. I have used my own discretion in this situation


In other words, David Cole faked or forged documents that show up in his article here.
http://www.countercontempt.com/archives/5232

He forged/faked these.
http://www.countercontempt.com/wp-conte ... ufeld1.jpg
http://www.countercontempt.com/wp-conte ... ufeld2.jpg
http://www.countercontempt.com/wp-conte ... ufeld3.jpg

:lol:

So we have people ignoring evidence on one hand, and others trying to cover it up by refusing to allow discussion about it on another forum. Sorry but Occam's Razor, that favourite tool of so called "skeptics", doesn't explain why allegedly innocent people like Shermer would behave like guilty people that have a desire to cover something up. If anyone ever throws that razor back in the faces of these skeptics, oh boy do they get an earful of irrational bitching and ad hominem attacks. It has happened to me. Jumping back to the randi forum.

Doghouse Reilly 5th June 2014, 11:49 AM

As untrustworthy as Cole may be (I personally have never heard of him before this thread), I find it extremely unlikely that the communications posted on his website between himself and Shermer's lawyers are in any way fraudulent. He may be a despicable person, but I would assume he is savvy enough (judging from the descriptions of the way he avoided detection for so long) to not get himself into legal trouble in such a blatant way.

Knowing what I know of Shermer, on the other hand, it is very easy to believe that the communications published on Cole's website are completely valid as represented by Cole.

Again, if Cole were lying about this, it would soon enough be public record, because Shermer would have grounds for a slam-dunk lawsuit against Cole, which I have no doubt he would be eager to file.

See a voice of reason who points out that this is likely not fake for it the documents were fake, then Shermer would sue and win and expose Cole and put the matter to rest. But of course, most so called skeptics and rationalists on there don't seem to have the ability to focus on the authenticity of the documents and the names, addresses and phone numbers and legal firms contained within.

Cleon 5th June 2014, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Doghouse Reilly View Post
As untrustworthy as Cole may be (I personally have never heard of him before this thread), I find it extremely unlikely that the communications posted on his website between himself and Shermer's lawyers are in any way fraudulent.


We're talking about a Holocaust denier. Fraud and lies aren't the exception, they're the rule.

Try staying on track next time, guys. You will look less foolish.

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Re: David Cole 2014 book "Republican Party Animal"

Postby Mala » 5 years 9 months ago (Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:23 pm)

So Cole has no physical evidence to support his claim that 1,786,356 jews were killed at Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzek, and Chelmno in 42/43.

[b]Does anyone know how many non jews Cole believes were killed at these four camps?

There are people here who claim to know the man. Has he ever been invited here to defend his claims in an open debate?

Has he accepted Greg Gerdes' offer to debate?

Has he ever attempted to claim any of the rewards offered at http://www.nafcash.com/ ?


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