'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happened.'

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Hannover
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'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happened.'

Postby Hannover » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu May 08, 2014 10:54 am)

This basic position is frequently used by the 'holocaust' religion's faithful, 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happened'.

There have been various opinions scattered about this forum on the topic, but it thought it would be helpful to raise it again.
Comments requested.

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who debunk it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent racist Jewish supremacists demand that there be no open debate.

The tide is turning.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happen

Postby Kingfisher » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu May 08, 2014 11:35 am)

The obvious point is that "it" is no longer the same thing. Bit like saying that it makes no difference in a car crash if you get a few bruises or are crippled for life: it's still a crash.

They are the ones with the fixed position to defend. They chose to set up the 6M and the gas chambers. Revisionists say "Where's the evidence?". Not accepting unsupported assertions puts us under no obligation to possess the absolute truth ourselves. If they were to revise the story down to "a few" (say less than 1 M) we have to ask what the figure means. All wartime Jewish deaths? No problem. That figure is not unlikely. One million killed by German actions? A little more problematic but given the brutal nature of the war in the East... One million "murdered" by the Germans? Define "murdered"... and so on. Certainly, at this level any campaign of "extermination" begins to look difficult to defend.

Of course, where it really does matter is on the issues of reparations and judicial sentences

Edit: I suppose the real answer is it isn't just, or even mainly, a question of numbers, but one of how they died and of intent. A million gassed to death and a million dead as a direct consequence of war are two very different things.
Last edited by Kingfisher on Thu May 08, 2014 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happen

Postby borjastick » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu May 08, 2014 12:03 pm)

Good idea Hannover and I have mentioned this issue several times over the past months.

To many of us and indeed those who believe the holocaust the holocaust is essentially based on two pillars; numbers killed and the method used.

We are all drilled and indoctrinated from school days with what those beastly Germans did to those poor Jews. Only last night I was talking to my middle son, who is 22 years old, on the telephone. I asked him if he was taught about the Holocaust at school. His answer was simple 'of course, you mean the Germans killing six million jews in gas chambers...'.

As far as I am concerned the holocaust is nothing without the six million figure and even if that figure was only 4m, 3m or less the figure is fundamental. But it isn't 4m or less it is 6m. When in enervated conversation with believers about the holocaust when you get them in retreat over the numbers game, when they realise they don't know their subject as they would prefer you to believe, they use this unintelligent tangent to brush me off. 'Oh' they say 'if it was only 100,000 what does that matter?'.

There are many angles attributed to the numbers killed and the subsequent actions because of the scale of the holocaust claimed death toll. There's the money and reparations, the middle east changed and has been unstable ever since the creation of Israel, which was wholly down to the holocaust. Then there's freedom of speech, executions and imprisonment of many German officers and even today they seek basic simple soldiers simply because they were stationed at Auschwitz. This would never have happened had the real total been a maximum 500,000 and mostly from disease!

The holocaust believers want to throw the 6m figure at you when it suits them and then fall back in retreat with the 'the number doesn't matter' routine when they cannot prove it.

To say it doesn't matter how many were killed is absolute nonsense, of course it matters! If the proof showed that only 300,000 jews died in the camps, by any means, then would Germany have had to pay billions in compensation and payments? Would Israel be in possession of a get out of jail free card for stealing land not theirs and killing thousands of palestinians?

Would mandated Holocaust indoctrination of our children be happening in schools across the western world?

Would legal protection of the holocaust be in place or even needed and would the persecution and violence against revisionists happen?

Would Revisionism even exist if the lies of the Holocaust hadn't been let out of the bottle?

So of course it matters how many died.

The six million figure is good for the general public, those who don't care much for the story and want a headline to believe but it doesn't stand any sort of technical scrutiny.

It is a fundamental cornerstone of the myth that is the holocaust. Without it their story folds up like a crappy umbrella in a light breeze.

The numbers matter absolutely.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happen

Postby hermod » 5 years 7 months ago (Thu May 08, 2014 7:52 pm)

Simpletons usually fail to discriminate "killed" and "died". And most people ignore that Poland and Russia were areas where typhus epidemics often broke out. Typhus killed many people in those areas long before there were German concentration camps there. Numerous people dying from typhus were not a consequence of concentration camps. They were a consequence of wars*. Typhus killed around 10 million people in Russia and over 3 million people in Poland & Romania alone during WW1 and the folllowing years. Lenin even said in 1919: "Either socialism will defeat the louse, or the louse will defeat socialism." In the 19th century, typhus killed more Napoleon's soldiers than the Russian troops did. Typhus was an endemic disease in Russia at that time. Regarding typhus, Poland was the epidemic reservoir of Europe and came to be perceived as the cordon sanitaire of the West. In the 19th and 20th centuries Poland became increasingly associated in Western Europe with "Eastern plagues" - cholera and then typhus - coming from Russia and which could spread to the rest of Europe if Poland did not manage to contain them. In early 1942, when war had spread to the East, Allied newspapers called typhus "war's greatest scourge" (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article ... erm=typhus) and the Allies were so afraid to see typhus come to the West that they introduced a new style of hairdressing called "Liberty Cut" (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article ... erm=typhus). Typhus was a so big issue in Eastern Europe that there were huge delousing tunnels to gas entire trains in those areas.

Image
Delousing tunnel in Romania

Image
Delousing tunnel in Sarajevo, Bosnia

I've already heard: "They (the Jews) wouldn't have died during WW2 if they hadn't been imprisoned in concentration camps in the first place. So the Germans were responsible for their death anyway." This is ridiculous. The delousing procedures in the German concentration camps (head shaved, clothes deloused, showers) probably saved numerous Jews imprisoned there. And all the belligerents in the Second World War had their own concentration camps anyway. It wasn't the Germans' fault if typhus didn't prevail in America as it did in Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe. And the Americans had DDT and anti-typhus vaccine which the Germans hadn't. That made the Allies able to deal with typhus as a non-issue when they entered the German concentration camps in spring 1945 and depict the mountains of emaciated typhus corpses which they found there as “victims of Nazi barbarity”, “prisoners starved to death” and “Jews exterminated by the fascist brutes” for propaganda purposes. When Germany collapsed and became unable to prevent typhus epidemics from raging in her last operational concentration camps, the Allies arrived in those areas and they could photograph and film the results of those terrible typhus epidemics, collecting what is now known as “Holocaust film footage” or “visual evidence of the Holocaust”. But being unable to prevent epidemics from breaking out is very different from a deliberate murderous policy. Good to know that the British propagandists had already used big typhus epidemics in Serbia during WW1 to blame alleged homicidal gas chambers on the Central Powers (ww1 atrocity propaganda). There's nothing easier than turning wartime deaths into something else for propaganda purposes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... meqHs4svbQ


* "Under modern conditions, typhus is almost wholly a war disease. When large numbers of soldiers carrying typhus-bearing 'cooties' (i.e. lice) travel through a country and are quartered with the population, conditions are ideal for a typhus epidemic. This was just what happened in Serbia late in 1914." - Homer Folks, "War, Best Friend of Disease," Harper's Monthly Magazine (New York: Harper & Brothers, 1920): 455-456.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happen

Postby borjastick » 5 years 7 months ago (Sat May 10, 2014 4:44 pm)

Tonight my wife and I had dinner with friends of ours here at our house.

He is a great believer in watching Al Jazeera TV news so he can get a real and in-depth view on the middle east situation. I discussed how the news is generally manipulated and controlled etc. He agreed and so we went on stumbling into mid east affairs and history. This led to the holocaust and Israel.

He surprised me by stating he had visited Auschwitz, had seen and been in the gas chambers and flatly refused to accept any argument from me about authenticity and scientific evidence against them being used as such. He was genuinely shocked when I told him the gas chamber in Auschwitz was built by the Russians after the war. Bizarrely his argument was that neither of us were there so how do we actually know what happened. He seemed to think there was a parallel between the Chinese rebuilding parts of the Great Wall in the 1970s and 'rebuilding' of gas chambers after the war. It was a strange conversation, enjoyable but ultimately he wasn't prepared to accept anything I said.

He then wriggled further by suggesting that my argument had little foundation as I wasn't certain whether my argument is against that existence of gas chambers or the number who were killed in the camps. I did in fact make it clear that there were no six million and no gas chambers. He wriggled further by stating that the holocaust is irrelevant as it happened seventy years ago and affects him not one jot in his life today. He genuinely feels there is no jewish control of any sector and jewish supremacism doesn't have any weight. And yet he watches Al Jazeera for in-depth and honest news...

Strangely he did accept that Treblinka was nothing but a transit camp but refused to discuss how the claimed 700,000+ bodies claimed to be there could have disappeared without trace.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happen

Postby fountainhead » 5 years 4 months ago (Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:01 pm)

Hannover wrote:This basic position is frequently used by the 'holocaust' religion's faithful, 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happened'.

I actually like to counter this by borrowing from one of David Cole's arguments in Auschwitz. Lowering the six million number could, in theory, make the logistics of the supposed mass murder more plausible, but as the number gets lower and lower, it makes the whole "Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jewish race" aspect of the story absurd. So they either have to stick with the scientifically impossible number of six million or lower the number and let go of the idea that it was an attempt to wipe out an entire race.
Who controls the past controls the future.
Who controls the present controls the past.

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Re: 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happen

Postby Werd » 5 years 4 months ago (Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:26 pm)

It does matter because then it exposes people like Wiernick, Arad and others as mere propagandists and it shows how Germany has been falsely accused of something for decades and forced to pay for crimes that never happened. This is about truth and accuracy and therefore real justice. But as you know, this completely flies over the head of Zionist supremacists. This is the point Austin App made in his books and he was correct.

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Re: 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happen

Postby borjastick » 5 years 4 months ago (Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:05 pm)

The truth matters to us, the real world justice seekers, who positively hate the lies and preposterous fables, and faux suffering that was supposed to have been endured by God's chosen ones in the holocaust. But the truth absolutely doesn't matter to the zionists who could not have established the state of Israel without the monumental suffering and murder of the mystical six million in such horrors as the gas chambers. Thus the pot was stirred and the biggest lie ever known to modern mankind was delivered.

This is of course the same state of israel, founded on such suffering that they would have felt compelled to show love and decency to all those in the proximity of their 'promised land'.

Instead they are currently on the biggest and most cruel killing spree ever known in the region. Driven by their fucked up 'no one likes us' routine to kill as many Palestinian children as possible.

If this holocaust of the Palestinians in Gaza doesn't drive you to expose them for everything they are then you are not human.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happen

Postby Hektor » 5 years 4 months ago (Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:08 pm)

Hannover wrote:This basic position is frequently used by the 'holocaust' religion's faithful, 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happened'.

There have been various opinions scattered about this forum on the topic, but it thought it would be helpful to raise it again.
Comments requested.
...

Heard variations on this also several times. They come in two different forms depending on the intention of the user (moral or historiographic).
1.) "Even if one Jew was killed, it would have created the same guilt!"
2.) "The figures are irrelevant."

Regarding 1, if that's so, now then all the killings of ethnic Germans or others are the same as the Holocaust, right. So why don't they get the same attention?
Regarding 2. It's obviously NOT irrelevant to those in charge, otherwise they wouldn't jail people for substantially questioning the six million figure.

One core assertion of the Holocaust, besides the six million figure and the "industrial killing" via homicidal gassing, is the killing of Jews for NO other reasons, because they were Jews. Now the cases we know show that this wasn't the reason.

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Re: 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happen

Postby hermod » 5 years 4 months ago (Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:15 am)

To Holocaust believers, the 6M figure doesn't matter. But Holocaust revisionists know that the 6M figure was the mark of an old Zionist fraud which was based on a fake Jewish martyrdom supposedly justifying the spoliation of Palestine from its legitimate owners.

Rabbi Stephen S. Wise, the Zionist leader who told the world about the "Holocaust" in late-1942 (from 'information' generously provided by his Zionist colleague Gerhart Riegner (later rewarded for that with the presidency of the World Jewish Congress)), didn't use the 6M figure as early as in 1900 for nothing. The same was true for other prominent Zionist leaders.

Knowing this, there are only 2 explanations left:

1) Hitler was a Zionist agent whose job was to kill 6 million Jewish martyrs and so turn a large part of Palestine into a Zionist state.

2) There were enough Zionists in the Jew-owned Allied press to make people believe that Hitler was killing/ had just killed 6M Jews and so force the establishment of a Zionist state in Palestine as a reparation for Hitler's "Holocaust".

Choose your favorite explanation, the one making more sense...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happen

Postby Hektor » 5 years 4 months ago (Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:47 am)

The six million figure may not matter that much to Holocaust believer underlings, but it for sure matters to Holocaust believer overlords, otherwise they wouldn't use violence against those disputing it. This may not be just for the religious connotation of the 6M figure, but also to avoid further debates on the issues. A large number is needed to add some "gravity" to the Holocaust.

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Re: 'It doesn't matter if it was 6M or just a few, it happen

Postby hermod » 5 years 4 months ago (Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:58 pm)

Hektor wrote:The six million figure may not matter that much to Holocaust believer underlings, but it for sure matters to Holocaust believer overlords, otherwise they wouldn't use violence against those disputing it. This may not be just for the religious connotation of the 6M figure, but also to avoid further debates on the issues. A large number is needed to add some "gravity" to the Holocaust.


If numbers didn't matter, they wouldn't be reduced to lower the number of deaths at Dresden and other German cities, especially for the bombings targetting civilians only. 25.000 deaths caused by the bombing on Dresden (today's official number), that's a shameful lie, dividing the real death toll of that Allied murderous orgy by a factor of ten (at least). But the Allies would look like mad murderers if it was finally admitted that between 400,000 and 500,000 people died in all the German concentration camps during WW2, mainly of diseases, while the Allies deliberately killed that number of German women and children with bombs in just a few nights (maybe even only one night if 400,000 or 500,000 died at Dresden). The worse murderer you are, the bigger you must lie. So the number of people who died in German concentration camps must be kept very high and the number of people killed by Allied bombers must be kept ridiculously low...for the sake of holy democracy and Human Rights. Not only Zionists need those lies. Many others do too.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915


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