Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French attack

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Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French attack

Postby borjastick » 4 years 10 months ago (Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:46 pm)

I have been watching the tragic events unfolding in Paris today with great interest from a media and human point of view.

If what we have seen is true, and there are already comments circulating on the interweb that it was either a job done by israel to once more stir up anti muslim views and thus cement more sympathy and money, or it was all faked, it has been surprising to see how quickly the 'freedom of speech' argument was pushed forward as to why this magazine should be allowed to carry on and why it was targeted.

Media luvvies all round europe were banging on about 'free expression' and the 'freedom to speak without fear of persecution' and other such tosh. If you are in the US you won't probably understand that here in Europe we don't actually have free speech. We have guidleines and laws to coerce one into saying nice stuff and even nasty comments should be done with respect etc. More tosh.

So I ask here why when it is ok for this magazine to produce many cartoons being extremely rude to religious icons and Gods-Prophets etc, which have led to this mass murderous outrage, that it isn't ok to discuss the subject of the holocaust being the biggest lie and con of the last one hundred years?

France was famous for the Robert Faurisson situation whereby (discussed elsewhere) loads of clever blokes with large IQs and small penises decided that to question whether it (the holocaust) actually happened should be made illegal because 'it happened so we know that it was possible, so there must be no discussion'. I paraphrase a little but the results is the same.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 10 months ago (Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:05 pm)

I've been watching this too on French TV. Lots of "langues de bois" (cant?) about the importance of freedom of speech and "les valeurs republicaines". One Deputy from the UMP party even had the nerve to use it to attack (undefined) parents of school pupils who were trying to prevent "the whole of history" being taught in schools. (Do your own decyphering.)

A further freedom-of-speech irony: Charlie Hebdo was originally called Hara-Kiri Hebdo but it was banned by the Minister of the Interior in 1970 when it published a front cover deemed offensive on the death of de Gaulle, so they simply carried on publishing it under a different name and got away with it.

Just how deep was Charlie Hebdo's commitment to freedom of expression?
In 2008, controversy broke over a column by veteran cartoonist Siné which led to accusations of antisemitism and Siné's sacking by Val. Siné sued the newspaper for unfair dismissal and Charlie Hebdo was sentenced to pay him €90,000 in damages.
Wikipedia article on Charlie Hebdo

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Hannover » 4 years 10 months ago (Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:06 pm)

When I saw comments in today's news videos about this terrible event I was struck by the hypocrisy of the political talking heads proclaiming 'Free speech must be protected at all costs', on & on. What a load of crap! Pardon my French.

These hypocrites remind me of the vile ADL that speaks of human rights for all, but no rights for activists who have exposed their racist 'holocaust' scam. And there's the leftists who demand so called "diversity", but ban diversity of opinion.

It's highly symbolic that this event happened in France, home of the infamous, anti free speech Fabius-Gayssot Law which has now spread through increasingly Marxist totalitarian Europe, see:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n2p14_Weber.html

Orwell is laughing in his grave.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of Truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Inquisitor » 4 years 10 months ago (Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:16 pm)

Hannover wrote:When I saw comments in today's news videos about this terrible event I was struck by the hypocrisy of the political talking heads proclaiming 'Free speech must be protected at all costs', on & on. What a load of crap! Pardon my French...

Orwell is laughing in his grave.

- Hannover


This was also my identical reaction. Without a hint of irony, nor the slightest recognizance of their naked hypocrisy, those same talking-heads who don't so much as issue a whisper of complaint about draconian laws protecting the holy "H," or similarly "PC" topics, are now prattling on incessantly, and in unison no less, about "free speech," and "free expression" etc! This is all so very Orwellian indeed. "Freedom of speech...except some speech...because that's evil speech...but we still believe strongly in some free speech...no, wait, all free speech...again, except the speech we don't approve of...so that's still free, right?" :roll:

Were it not so twisted and dangerous, it would all be darkly comical.


_____

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Dresden » 4 years 10 months ago (Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:26 pm)

Inquisitor said:

"Freedom of speech...except some speech...because that's evil speech...but we still believe strongly in some free speech...no, wait, all free speech...again, except the speech we don't approve of...so that's still free, right?" :roll:"

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Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Kladderadatsch » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:57 am)

Image

The hypocrisy is not limited to the commentariat. There's Charlie Hebdo itself.

I don't really know the details, only what can be gathered from Vincent's videos on the subject, but everyone here should be aware that Charlie Hebdo was part of a trumped-up prosecution against Vincent Reynouard in which Vincent was condemned just this past November to a six month prison sentence (suspended) and a 20 000 euro fine (not suspended). Needless to say, Vincent is in no position to pay the latter.

Vincent's "crime"? Well, of course you know what . . . but for technical legal reasons, they couldn't charge him with that, so the actual charge was "counterfeiting" (contrefaçon). As Vincent explains in the first of the videos below, he made a graphic novel/comic book-style pamphlet discussing revisionism in 2006, and he "borrowed" a dozen or so images from a Charlie Hebdo publication for various segments in it. He acknowledged the borrowing on the first page of the pamphlet (without claiming that its contents were in any way approved of or endorsed by Charlie Hebdo, or that the borrowing was done with its knowledge), and the pamphlet itself was printed and circulated privately in a run of about 300 copies.

By the time illustrator Laurent Sourisseau (aka Riss, injured but not killed in today's shooting) discovered that his images had been used in 2008, it was already too late to charge Vincent under a Fabius-Gayssot* violation, since apparently the statute of limitations there is one year. So the powers that be decided instead to charge him with "counterfeiting," a grotesquely cynical ploy, the only purpose of which could be legal harrassment and intimidation. After all, under the law for "contrefaçon," the plaintiff is normally required to show harm, and as Vincent himself says, it's hard to make the case that Charlie Hebdo was particularly hurt, either financially or in terms of its reputation ("prejudice morale"; see @4:50 in the first video for an idea of its usual moral standards), by his use of the images. No matter: it was a way to get at the hated revisionist, and so they took him to court.

I don't know how much of an active part Charlie Hebdo or Laurent Sourisseau played in this sordid affair, but the reality is that even if the primary impetus came from other parties, the case could not have gone forward without their cooperation. After all, in the judgment of November 4, 2014, Vincent is required to pay Charlie Hebdo damages as one of the "injured parties" sharing in the 20 000 euro jackpot.

So yes, the magazine was complicit in this ugly act of persecution. The events in Paris are a terrible tragedy, and I believe we revisionists should be unhesitating in expressing our support for freedom of speech and expression for all, even those we find personally obnoxious. But in all the chatter about "Je suis Charlie" in the coming days, it should not be forgotten that France's brave "weekly" champions of free expression weakly played along with state-sanctioned repression of the rights and freedoms of others when it came to the case of Vincent Reynouard.




Affaire Charlie-Hebdo : prison ferme requise contre Reynouard (The Charlie Hebdo Affair: prison time demanded for Reynouard) Oct 18, 2014




Affaire Charlie-Hebdo : Reynouard lourdement condamné (The Charlie Hebdo Affair: Heavy sentence for Reynouard) Nov 21, 2014


No subtitles yet, lol. I don't work that fast. But if you watch the first 5-10 minutes or so of each video, even people without any French should be able to get some idea of what Vincent is talking about. (That's where the Charlie Hebdo stuff appears; each video then branches out to talk about revisionist topics.) They're both good videos, but they're probably not worth the effort of translating in full, at least for now--there are more important pieces to do first. If I have a chance though, I may add some explanations of interesting points in the days come.

Or of course, anyone else here with some French under their belt is more than welcome to help with a summary (hint hint).



* If anyone doesn't know, "Fabius-Gayssot" aka the Gayssot Act is France's unconstitutional anti-revisionist muzzle law.
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Kladderadatsch » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:26 am)

Update: while I was watching the older videos and writing up the longish post above, Vincent went and made a new video on the subject. Hot off the press.



I'll check in later to see if there's anything I can help in translating/explaining. (Or again, if anyone else wants to get a start on it . . . après vous.)
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby borjastick » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:40 am)

Here's my reasons why freedom of speech doesn't apply to the holocaust.

Discussion will quickly lead to truth.

Truth will lead to anger.

Anger translates into anti-semitism.

Anti-semitism is controlled by the jewish owned media.

Media are often left wing liberals who believe the whole persecution complex as claimed by the jews.

Jews made up the holocaust.


Ergo freedom of speech on the holocaust must be banned.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Hektor » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:30 am)

Didn't "Human Rights" organisation refuse to help Revisionists persecuted for free speech, because they were practicing "hate" and "Racism"?

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Hannover » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:56 am)

Kladderadatsch:
I wasn't aware of Charlie Hebdo's anti free speech past, thanks for the info., it certainly adds to the hypocrisy and irony.

Here's a free speech issue being voiced by those who demonstrably oppose free speech.

I wonder if the French media is making that known. Yeah, I know, I'm dreaming.

I did find this at: http://www.businessinsider.com/history- ... get-2015-1
'How Charlie Hebdo Became A Top Terrorist Target'
Note the comment by supremacist Jew, Laurent Fabius, co-author of the notorious anti free speech Fabius-Gayssot Law. He referred to one of the magazine's covers which depicted a Jew and Muslim as "a provocation". Hmm.
exerpts:
It was then followed by a cover showing a Muslim man in a wheelchair pushed by an Orthodox Jew under the title "Untouchables 2," an imaginary sequel to a recently released French film. The pair are saying (rough translation) "You must not mock us!"

The publication was condemned by the French foreign minister Laurent Fabius as a "provocation." The French government was so concerned about the possibility of a backlash in Muslim countries, following the response to the 2006 cartoons, that it decided to temporarily close 20 embassies as a precaution.

Yet Charlie Hebdo was not done. In 2013 the magazine went further still, publishing what it called a "halal" comic book on the life of the Prophet Mohammad. The book was created with the help of an Islamic Franco-Tunisian sociologist, and Charbonnier claimed, somewhat implausibly given his experiences, that there was no reason why anyone would take offense.

Even those who have defended the magazine's right to publish have acknowledged the articles have been crass. But Charbonnier told Al Jazeera in a 2012 interview that his argument had always been that free speech must be upheld and could not be bounded by what would and would not cause offense.
- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of Truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby phdnm » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:00 pm)

There is no business like Charlie Hebdo business ...


Charlie Hebdo staff vow to publish next week with 1m print run


Thursday 8 January 2015

Writer for satirical magazine says ‘stupidity will not win’ as Google pledges to donate €250,000 to support the publication

Surviving staff members of Charlie Hebdo have vowed to publish the satirical weekly next Wednesday, despite the murder of most of its senior journalists – with a hoped-for print run of 1m copies.

Google said it would donate €250,000 (£195,000) to help support the publication from its press innovation fund; a further €250,000 was pledged by French newspaper publishers, to be taken by a donation tax, according to a report in Les Echos.

The two groups involved in the distribution of the papers will take no fee for next week’s issue.

Richard Malka, the magazine’s lawyer, told Les Echos that the remaining staff aim to print 1m copies of the satirical weekly which has a typical print run of 60,000.

In an emotional interview with French TV channel i>Télé, a free-to-air news channel, a visibly upset Patrick Pelloux, a casualty doctor who also wrote for the weekly, vowed to publish next week’s issue. Between sobs he said Charlie Hebdo will continue as otherwise the killers will have won: “Le journal va continuer, ils n’ont pas gagné.”

Asked how, he said it would be difficult but that the death of his editors could not be “for nothing”. “It’s very hard. We are all suffering, with grief, with fear, but we will do it anyway because stupidity will not win,” he said.

Eight of the 12 people killed by the masked gunmen were journalists gathered for the weekly staff editorial meeting on press day. Pelloux was among the first on the scene, having been called by another surviving staff member while visiting a nearby firestation.

Among those massacred at the mid-morning meeting were four of the magazine’s most famous names: the cartoonists Cabu, Wolinski and Tignous, and the magazine’s editor since 2012, the cartoonist Stéphane Charbonnier, known as Charb.

Amid offers of help from other media organisations, Martin Rowson, a Guardian cartoonist, has called for his colleagues to donate images to the site so that it can launch next week.

Rowson, who is chairman of the British Cartoonists’ Association, called on his fellow cartoonists to join him in “donating a free drawing” to help ensure that publication can go ahead.

Following the deaths at a paper run by its tiny committed staff, the Charlie Hebdo website was amended to read Je Suis Charlie, translated into many other languages, including Arabic.

Several witnesses reported hearing shouts of “Allahu Akbar”, as well as “We’ve killed Charlie Hebdo” from the gunmen, who also killed two policemen, a visitor and a maintenance worker.

Instead of its usual 16 pages, the group aim to publish eight next Wednesday.

Among the survivors is writer Laurent Léger, who sounded the alarm having survived the conference room massacre, according to L’Obs magazine, and Corinne Rey, known as Coco, who was forced to use the code to open the doors to the office by masked gunmen.

Out of respect and support for Charlie Hebdo, many people around the world held a minute’s silence on Thursday.

International support also came on website reddit RIP Hebdo staff. You are all heroes.

Founded in 1969 as Hara-Kiri Hebdo, a sort of monthly French version of the US satirical magazine Mad, it was banned after mocking the death of former French president Charles de Gaulle in November 1970.

To sidestep the ban, editors renamed the magazine Charlie Hebdo, taking inspiration from a monthly comic book called Charlie Mensuel that two of the team worked on (named in turn after Charlie Brown of Peanuts fame) as well as an irreverent reference to the then recently deceased De Gaulle.

Charlie Hebdo folded in 1981 due to a lack of sales. It was to re-emerge in its current form in 1992.

In 1991, a satirical weekly called The Big Bertha (the name of a military weapon) launched taking aim at the first gulf war.

The title was set up by a team including Charbonnier, who left the title a year later with the bulk of the team to relaunch Charlie Hebdo.

The team included Philippe Val, a French comedian and journalist who would edit the publication for 17 years until Charb took over in 2009.

The team pooled their money and set up a foundation to relaunch and run Charlie Hebdo, according to a 2008 story in Le Monde the foundation was called “Kalashnikov Editions”.

The title’s current weekly circulation is estimated at about 30,000, according to the New York Times.



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/j ... -print-run


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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Mulegino1 » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:35 pm)

Hannover wrote:When I saw comments in today's news videos about this terrible event I was struck by the hypocrisy of the political talking heads proclaiming 'Free speech must be protected at all costs', on & on. What a load of crap! Pardon my French.

These hypocrites remind me of the vile ADL that speaks of human rights for all, but no rights for activists who have exposed their racist 'holocaust' scam. And there's the leftists who demand so called "diversity", but ban diversity of opinion.

It's highly symbolic that this event happened in France, home of the infamous, anti free speech Fabius-Gayssot Law which has now spread through increasingly Marxist totalitarian Europe, see:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n2p14_Weber.html

Orwell is laughing in his grave.

- Hannover
It would appear that in the land of "Liberte", "Egalite", and "Fraternite", "liberte" is determined by certain kosher "freres" who enjoy more "egalite" than everyone else!

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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Kladderadatsch » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:04 pm)

Subtitles!



Strong medicine, lol.

One thing for anyone who's wondering how a 20 000 Euro fine could "ruin" Vincent for life: in other recent videos he has explained how he has been effectively reduced to the status of a social outcast, with no prospects for employment. (Obscene, given the man's talents, but I digress.) At any rate, I don't know if he is liable to imprisonment if he can't pay the fine; either way, it's just one more grinding insult from Orwell's eternally stamping boot.

p.s. I had to fake a couple of places which were hard to hear. If anyone can make out @7:15 and @10:59 a little better, let me know and I'll fix the subs. Along, of course, with any other corrections people might have . . .
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby hermod » 4 years 10 months ago (Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:16 pm)

Charlie Hebdo K.O.

The anarchist bastards having recently bankrupted Vincent Reynouard, punished at last! Hip hip hooray for the muslim avengers!! :cheers:

It seems that the 'humanitarian' hypocrites are no more the only ones who can define what is free speech and what is infamous hate speech. It seems that time has come when drawing prophet Muhammad is beyond the borders of free speech. Be careful. The penal sentences carried out by the muslim censors are a little more radical than the democratic ones... :roll:
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Re: Why Free Speech Doesn't Apply To Holocaust / French atta

Postby Kingfisher » 4 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 09, 2015 7:01 am)

Kladderadatsch wrote:If anyone can make out @7:15 and @10:59 a little better, let me know and I'll fix the subs. Along, of course, with any other corrections people might have . . .
7:15 = Tel un cancer elle s'etend... (sorry accents are tricky on my keyboard)

10:59= On voit aujourd'hui ou en est l'Europe.


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