'I don't want to know the truth!'

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borjastick
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'I don't want to know the truth!'

Postby borjastick » 5 years 7 months ago (Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:41 am)

Given the overwhelming common sense and scientific evidence against the claims of gas chambers and six million dead jews in the holocaust, it is, at the very least, staggering how many people refuse to acknowledge the truth of the matter. I fully understand that many people feel an empathy with the jews because of the suffering they have endured over many centuries culminating in the holocaust but it seems these same people, together with those who simply follow what they are told to believe, find it impossible to apply critical thought and rational analysis.

The emotional connection blinds them at the point when they should be able to smell a rat and at least temper their sympathy with some reality.

I think this could be a symptom of the political bent of many holocaust promoters and believers - left wing.

This position was brought into sharp context today on a totally different matter but which prompted this thread.

There is a 'charity' local to me looking to raise funds to found an elephant sanctuary for those elephants unable to continue in zoos and circuses due to a law change in Europe. The two people running this charity are raising funds left right and centre to buy a farm. After which they will need to adapt the property, at great expense, and equip it with anti-tank fencing etc. Then after that stage three kicks in with the acquisition of said elephants and the huge running costs of the enterprise. Each elephant, it is said, costs €80,000 per annum to feed and keep.

The two people are in my opinion snake oil salesmen seeking only to part gullible idiots from their money so as to buy a rather attractive farm replete with three rental units etc. It will afford them a generous income stream.

It is quite clear they cannot raise even the money to buy the farm yet they keep taking money off the gullible. Are you getting my drift yet? The comparison with the holocaust is perhaps becoming clear.

Today I spoke to one of the 'believer followers'. When I asked the perfectly reasonable questions over the finances she literally held her hands up to her ears and spoke loudly 'I don't want to know the truth, I'm not interested in the truth'.

The holocaustians are of the same persuasion where they simply ignore the truth which is as obvious as the noses on their faces in order to further the cause of guilt, money and freedom for Israel to kill Palestinians and for jews to run the US. The truth shall play no part in their world, it is an inconvenience to them and their cause.

People like certain believers who come here to 'debate', which of course never really happens, and is a waste of time anyway simply will not allow themselves to see the truth.

Maybe they like elephant dung...
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: 'I don't want to know the truth!'

Postby hermod » 5 years 7 months ago (Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:06 am)

IMO, the main reason for the current success of "Holocaust" promoters comes from their ability to make people believe that the other side is just a hole full of haters and ignoramuses denying the "Holocaust" for no other reason than hateful political biases. Deborah Lipstadt's infamous labels "Holocaust deniers" and "Holocaust denial" were a master stroke. Discrediting the revisionists, so depriving them of any researcher status from the outset, before most people have even heard their arguments was the best way to save the ludicrous orthodox "Holocaust" narrative (which is full of huge holes as we all know here) and Zionist interests from the revisionist arguments.

But many people just don't want to know the truth about the Holy "Holocaust". That's true. Human brain has great & fascinating abilities to occult all the things threatening someone's most cherished beliefs. Probably a defense mechanism designed by Mother Nature to preserve people's sanity and protect it from constant mental challenges and turmoil. Hard to deny or not see that the "Holocaust" is today the cornerstone of Western societies and moral standards. Allowing your brain to question the "Holocaust" could cause a dramatic change in your beliefs and moral standards. Most people just can't stand that...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: 'I don't want to know the truth!'

Postby unsubscribe » 5 years 7 months ago (Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:23 pm)

hermod wrote:Deborah Lipstadt's infamous labels "Holocaust deniers" and "Holocaust denial" were a master stroke. Discrediting the revisionists, so depriving them of any researcher status from the outset, before most people have even heard their arguments was the best way to save the ludicrous orthodox "Holocaust" narrative (which is full of huge holes as we all know here) and Zionist interests from the revisionist arguments.


That's a big point. Instead of defending their positions and their tales, they made it possible to simply convict someone of denying them rather than disproving them. Now the general public believes someone who denies the Holo tales has been proven wrong, which we know is comparing apples to oranges. It's a red herring of the highest order.

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Re: 'I don't want to know the truth!'

Postby Mulegino1 » 5 years 7 months ago (Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:04 pm)

borjastick wrote:Given the overwhelming common sense and scientific evidence against the claims of gas chambers and six million dead jews in the holocaust, it is, at the very least, staggering how many people refuse to acknowledge the truth of the matter. I fully understand that many people feel an empathy with the jews because of the suffering they have endured over many centuries culminating in the holocaust but it seems these same people, together with those who simply follow what they are told to believe, find it impossible to apply critical thought and rational analysis.

The emotional connection blinds them at the point when they should be able to smell a rat and at least temper their sympathy with some reality.

I think this could be a symptom of the political bent of many holocaust promoters and believers - left wing.

This position was brought into sharp context today on a totally different matter but which prompted this thread.

There is a 'charity' local to me looking to raise funds to found an elephant sanctuary for those elephants unable to continue in zoos and circuses due to a law change in Europe. The two people running this charity are raising funds left right and centre to buy a farm. After which they will need to adapt the property, at great expense, and equip it with anti-tank fencing etc. Then after that stage three kicks in with the acquisition of said elephants and the huge running costs of the enterprise. Each elephant, it is said, costs €80,000 per annum to feed and keep.

The two people are in my opinion snake oil salesmen seeking only to part gullible idiots from their money so as to buy a rather attractive farm replete with three rental units etc. It will afford them a generous income stream.

It is quite clear they cannot raise even the money to buy the farm yet they keep taking money off the gullible. Are you getting my drift yet? The comparison with the holocaust is perhaps becoming clear.

Today I spoke to one of the 'believer followers'. When I asked the perfectly reasonable questions over the finances she literally held her hands up to her ears and spoke loudly 'I don't want to know the truth, I'm not interested in the truth'.

The holocaustians are of the same persuasion where they simply ignore the truth which is as obvious as the noses on their faces in order to further the cause of guilt, money and freedom for Israel to kill Palestinians and for jews to run the US. The truth shall play no part in their world, it is an inconvenience to them and their cause.

People like certain believers who come here to 'debate', which of course never really happens, and is a waste of time anyway simply will not allow themselves to see the truth.

Maybe they like elephant dung...


When an individual's emotional investment in something - the "Good war", "Holocaust" or, for example, the absolutely ludicrous official narrative of 9/11 (which is kind of America's mini-Holocaust) - reaches a certain critical mass, confrontation with evidence, however ironclad, will invariably provoke an angry or defensive response. The part of the brain which involves logic and critical thinking simply shuts down and the emotive, faith based cognitive dissonance takes over.

When I read my first revisionist book about the Second World War and the alleged "Holocaust" - interestingly enough, a work in Spanish written by a Mexican writer named Salvador Borrego entitled "Derrota Mundial" ("Worldwide Defeat") - I felt as if I had committed a sin - thought crime! I had been indoctrinated in the 6 million and "Good war" myths since I was a child. I even went to confession. Fortunately the priest, who was Italian, simply laughed and told me that it would do me good to read something that was not American propaganda!

My increasing familiarity with revisionism and revisionist literature has improved my critical thinking skills a thousandfold.

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Re: 'I don't want to know the truth!'

Postby Hektor » 5 years 7 months ago (Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:05 pm)

Mulegino1 wrote:....
When an individual's emotional investment in something - the "Good war", "Holocaust" or, for example, the absolutely ludicrous official narrative of 9/11 (which is kind of America's mini-Holocaust) - reaches a certain critical mass, confrontation with evidence, however ironclad, will invariably provoke an angry or defensive response. The part of the brain which involves logic and critical thinking simply shuts down and the emotive, faith based cognitive dissonance takes over.
Cognitive Dissonance - "Let's not go there".

Mulegino1 wrote:....
When I read my first revisionist book about the Second World War and the alleged "Holocaust" - interestingly enough, a work in Spanish written by a Mexican writer named Salvador Borrego entitled "Derrota Mundial" ("Worldwide Defeat") - I felt as if I had committed a sin - thought crime! I had been indoctrinated in the 6 million and "Good war" myths since I was a child. I even went to confession. Fortunately the priest, who was Italian, simply laughed and told me that it would do me good to read something that was not American propaganda!
Fortunately you had a good priest there.
But given what you just listed up, Robert Lifton's 8 themes of totalism come to mind.

Mulegino1 wrote:....
My increasing familiarity with revisionism and revisionist literature has improved my critical thinking skills a thousandfold.

Well familiarity with the scientific method (and perhaps it's history, I'm thinking of Francis Bacon here - Novum Organon, the idols) is very helpful to approach such matters.

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Re: 'I don't want to know the truth!'

Postby Mulegino1 » 5 years 7 months ago (Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:53 pm)

Here are Lifton's points here:

I provide brief comments on each one in italics:



Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large. In the Holocaust believers community, this works by isolating them from access to revisionist literature and concepts

Mystical Manipulation. The manipulation of experiences that appears spontaneous but is, in fact, planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority, spiritual advancement, or some exceptional talent or insight that sets the leader and/or group apart from humanity, and that allows reinterpretation of historical events, scripture, and other experiences. Coincidences and happenstance oddities are interpreted as omens or prophecies. For example, the eyewitnesses' unbelievable claims, no matter how incredible, must be accepted because of the sacred status of the Holocaust

Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here. This one is quite obvious: Hitler/Devil/Allies Angels/6 million Jews saints/Germans criminals/6 million Jews = undeniable fact/ revisionists shameful heretics

Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders. I read a filthy revisionist book; I have dirty revisionist thoughts. Please forgive me for having doubted. I must start the healing process by doing penance at The Museum of Tolerance

Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism. Auschwitz has replaced Calvary as the single defining Sacred event of history

Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking. Denialism, Holocaust denier! Anti-Semite! Neo-Nazi!

Doctrine over person. Members' personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group. By personal experience, I know that human bodies do not burn on their own in the normal course of nature, but I must believe this is so!

Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also. The Holocaust deniers are marginalized and hated, and they are in "outer darkness"

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Re: 'I don't want to know the truth!'

Postby Inquisitor » 5 years 7 months ago (Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:40 pm)

I think this could be a symptom of the political bent of many holocaust promoters and believers - left wing.


In this particular case the "holocaust" and indeed, WW2 in general, seem to be that one place where the political left and *right come together in almost astonishing unison. Most strident Conservatives I know are every bit the fanatical supporters and protectors of "holocaust" mythology. While the whole narrative no doubt has its roots deep in Marxist/leftist soil, in the modern day, this fervor for all things "holocaust" is shared with equal emotional-attachment by both the mainstream left and right.

*It is noted that what passes for the modern political right and Conservatism today are, in many ways, nothing of the kind. So here I speak strictly of the mainstream "Fox News Channel/Talk-Radio/Flag-Waver" variety.

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Re: 'I don't want to know the truth!'

Postby Mulegino1 » 5 years 7 months ago (Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:07 pm)

Inquisitor wrote:
I think this could be a symptom of the political bent of many holocaust promoters and believers - left wing.


In this particular case the "holocaust" and indeed, WW2 in general, seem to be that one place where the political left and *right come together in almost astonishing unison. Most strident Conservatives I know are every bit the fanatical supporters and protectors of "holocaust" mythology. While the whole narrative no doubt has its roots deep in Marxist/leftist soil, in the modern day, this fervor for all things "holocaust" is shared with equal emotional-attachment by both the mainstream left and right.

*It is noted that what passes for the modern political right and Conservatism today are, in many ways, nothing of the kind. So here I speak strictly of the mainstream "Fox News Channel/Talk-Radio/Flag-Waver" variety.

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Interestingly enough, just an hour ago, I had a heated exchange with some family members over a very specific incident in the Second World War, which we are now taught was a small part of the Holocaust (and not the other way around).

When I laid out detailed revisionist evidence - names, dates, facts, documents, etc., they immediately responded angrily - and without any facts - that this was impossible, couldn't have happened. Of course, they are the typical "History Channel" indoctrinated infotainment consumers. Using critical thinking skills - in this case - would shatter their tidy world view and their zone of comfort.

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Re: 'I don't want to know the truth!'

Postby Inquisitor » 5 years 7 months ago (Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:42 am)

Mulegino1 wrote:
Inquisitor wrote:
I think this could be a symptom of the political bent of many holocaust promoters and believers - left wing.


In this particular case the "holocaust" and indeed, WW2 in general, seem to be that one place where the political left and *right come together in almost astonishing unison. Most strident Conservatives I know are every bit the fanatical supporters and protectors of "holocaust" mythology. While the whole narrative no doubt has its roots deep in Marxist/leftist soil, in the modern day, this fervor for all things "holocaust" is shared with equal emotional-attachment by both the mainstream left and right.

*It is noted that what passes for the modern political right and Conservatism today are, in many ways, nothing of the kind. So here I speak strictly of the mainstream "Fox News Channel/Talk-Radio/Flag-Waver" variety.

----------


Interestingly enough, just an hour ago, I had a heated exchange with some family members over a very specific incident in the Second World War, which we are now taught was a small part of the Holocaust (and not the other way around).

When I laid out detailed revisionist evidence - names, dates, facts, documents, etc., they immediately responded angrily - and without any facts - that this was impossible, couldn't have happened. Of course, they are the typical "History Channel" indoctrinated infotainment consumers. Using critical thinking skills - in this case - would shatter their tidy world view and their zone of comfort.


The brainwashing goes very, very deep. I've had the same arguments you describe any number of times(haven't we all at this point?), and the truth never fails to instantly close minds, and shut down reasoned debate. They don't care about facts, figures, tangible/physical evidence - alas they KNOW it happened as they've been told it happened! How do they "know" this? They just..."know" as if such knowledge is mystically, nay, divinely imparted to us...and thus, must be and is accepted without question. And the 'divinity' in the case is primarily the television, print media, etc.

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Re: 'I don't want to know the truth!'

Postby Hektor » 5 years 7 months ago (Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:59 am)

Mulegino1 wrote:Here are Lifton's points here:

I provide brief comments on each one in italics:

Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large. In the Holocaust believers community, this works by isolating them from access to revisionist literature and concepts

Mystical Manipulation. The manipulation of experiences that appears spontaneous but is, in fact, planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority, spiritual advancement, or some exceptional talent or insight that sets the leader and/or group apart from humanity, and that allows reinterpretation of historical events, scripture, and other experiences. Coincidences and happenstance oddities are interpreted as omens or prophecies. For example, the eyewitnesses' unbelievable claims, no matter how incredible, must be accepted because of the sacred status of the Holocaust

Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here. This one is quite obvious: Hitler/Devil/Allies Angels/6 million Jews saints/Germans criminals/6 million Jews = undeniable fact/ revisionists shameful heretics

Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders. I read a filthy revisionist book; I have dirty revisionist thoughts. Please forgive me for having doubted. I must start the healing process by doing penance at The Museum of Tolerance

Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism. Auschwitz has replaced Calvary as the single defining Sacred event of history

Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking. Denialism, Holocaust denier! Anti-Semite! Neo-Nazi!

Doctrine over person. Members' personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group. By personal experience, I know that human bodies do not burn on their own in the normal course of nature, but I must believe this is so!

Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also. The Holocaust deniers are marginalized and hated, and they are in "outer darkness"

That's a good start on it and I'm sure we'll find more tenets, if one just looks deeply enough.

Remember that Holocaustianity works strongly with shame and guilt - just like the brainwashing of the Chinese Communists.

An interesting feat regarding the Holocaust is loading the language, their phraseology patently illustrates that.
It starts with Holocaust or Shoa - and related terms like "Holocaust denier". Then there is of course the uniqueness. I think Thomas Gabis wrote about more religious elements in the whole thing.

If one assesses this further it becomes clear that Holocaustians have their own mythical truth and they are not interested in historical or physical truth. Statements like "it was technically possible because it happened" indicates that.

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Re: 'I don't want to know the truth!'

Postby borjastick » 5 years 7 months ago (Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:03 am)

Perhaps this quote sums up exactly what I am trying to impart.

There Are None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See:


• According to the ‘Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings’ this proverb has been traced back to 1546 (John Heywood), and resembles the Biblical verse Jeremiah 5:21 (‘Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not’). In 1738 it was used by Jonathan Swift in his ‘Polite Conversation’ and is first attested in the United States in the 1713 ‘Works of Thomas Chalkley’. The full saying is: ‘There are none so blind as those who will not see. The most deluded people are those who choose to ignore what they already know’
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician


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