Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

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EtienneSC
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Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby EtienneSC » 4 years 9 months ago (Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:36 am)

The Einsatzgruppen actions on the Eastern front have not yet been properly studied from a revisionist standpoint. Carlo Mattogno has expressed an intention to deal with it and Robert Faurisson has criticized some French work, but the focus of revisionist scholarship has always been the camps. Now we have the beginning of a treatment by Vincent Reynouard in his usual video format:



In this first part, he discusses the origins of the war in preparation for an analysis of the orders given to the Einsatzgruppen in 1941. His overall standpoint seems to be that there were shootings of partisans, but that these were not part of a systematic extermination policy. They were carried out to ensure control (lasting control) of given areas. He produces indirect evidence of the shooting of children, which Ohlendorf at Nuremberg compared to allied bombing raids against civilians. In my view, there is a moral distinction here, the targeted shooting of children being particularly depraved, though both were war crimes. The second part would be well worth producing a translation of, given the lack of English language revisionist literature on the subject.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Hannover » 4 years 9 months ago (Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:49 am)

EtienneSC said:
He produces indirect evidence of the shooting of children, which Ohlendorf at Nuremberg compared to allied bombing raids against civilians. In my view, there is a moral distinction here, the targeted shooting of children being particularly depraved, though both were war crimes.

It is well known in all circles that children were heavily involved in the illegal partisans / terrorists who the Einsatzgruppen were fighting.
Execution of non-uniformed combatants was perfectly legal under international law.
Though people of all ages became Jewish Partisans, many were very young. Children as young as nine years old fought, and many Jewish Partisans were between the ages of 17 and 25. Most commonly, men and boys carried out all partisan missions, although in some camps, girls and women worked and fought alongside them.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... isan2.html


- Hannover

edited for typo and additional sentence
Last edited by Hannover on Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Hektor » 4 years 9 months ago (Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:58 am)

EtienneSC wrote:.... They were carried out to ensure control (lasting control) of given areas. He produces indirect evidence of the shooting of children, which Ohlendorf at Nuremberg compared to allied bombing raids against civilians. In my view, there is a moral distinction here, the targeted shooting of children being particularly depraved, though both were war crimes. ...

As Hanover points out (women and) children were involved in partisan warfare. The moral distinction between deliberate civilian bombing (including children of any age) is that the shootings at the Eastern front were in an emergency situation.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby spaceboy » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:10 pm)

Hannover wrote:It is well known in all circles that children were heavily involved in the illegal partisans / terrorists who the Einsatzgruppen were fighting.


That's true, but I believe this December 16, 1943 quote from Heinrich Himmler needs to also be considered:

Thus I have basically given the order to also kill the wives and children of these partisans, and commissars. I would be a weakling and a criminal to our descendants if I allowed the hate-filled sons of the sub-humans we have liquidated in this struggle of humanity against subhumanity to grow up

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Hannover » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:19 pm)

spaceboy wrote:
Hannover wrote:It is well known in all circles that children were heavily involved in the illegal partisans / terrorists who the Einsatzgruppen were fighting.


That's true, but I believe this December 16, 1943 quote from Heinrich Himmler needs to also be considered:

Thus I have basically given the order to also kill the wives and children of these partisans, and commissars. I would be a weakling and a criminal to our descendants if I allowed the hate-filled sons of the sub-humans we have liquidated in this struggle of humanity against subhumanity to grow up

Oh really? Says who? I'm not buying it, spaceboy. Please show us the original document / order.

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The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Werd » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:58 pm)

I can not justify or agree with the shooting of children, partisan or not. They ought to have been rounded up and just put in places like Auschwitz or Mauthausen.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Hannover » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:25 pm)

Werd wrote:I can not justify or agree with the shooting of children, partisan or not. They ought to have been rounded up and just put in places like Auschwitz or Mauthausen.

That's easy to say when your life is not on the line.

Their engagment in sabotage & murder changed everything.

Certainly Allied troops had no problem killing German children who fought against them.

And imagine the logistics of sending those, for which international law allowed execution, to camps when your fighting them in the middle of nowhere.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Werd » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:55 pm)

I would like to see some primary documents indicating children or even pre teens were aiming and shooting guns at Nazis or tossing grenades at them for example. I would also like to see proof of this:
Certainly Allied troops had no problem killing German children who fought against them.

Dresden does not count.

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Hannover » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:42 pm)

Werd wrote:I would like to see some primary documents indicating children or even pre teens were aiming and shooting guns at Nazis or tossing grenades at them for example. I would also like to see proof of this:
Certainly Allied troops had no problem killing German children who fought against them.

Dresden does not count.

from earlier in this thread:
Though people of all ages became Jewish Partisans, many were very young. Children as young as nine years old fought, and many Jewish Partisans were between the ages of 17 and 25. Most commonly, men and boys carried out all partisan missions, although in some camps, girls and women worked and fought alongside them.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... isan2.html


armed partisans:

ImageImageImage

Who said anything about Dresden?

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Inquisitor » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:50 pm)

Hannover wrote:
Werd wrote:I can not justify or agree with the shooting of children, partisan or not. They ought to have been rounded up and just put in places like Auschwitz or Mauthausen.

That's easy to say when your life is not on the line.

Their engagment in sabotage & murder changed everything.

Certainly Allied troops had no problem killing German children who fought against them.

And imagine the logistics of sending those, for which international law allowed execution, to camps when your fighting them in the middle of nowhere.

- Hannover


There are a number of photos in the "Im Bild" (in pictures) books accompany various German Divisional histories (particularly Waffen-SS) put out originally Munin Verlag, etc., that show the results of Partisan murder, mutilation, and so forth. I'd not have to see that happen to my comrades more than once before anyone and everyone of any age was "fair game" that took part in these terrorist activities. It is indeed tragic that children were used in that way - but in war and if it were my life on the line...well, mercy wouldn't be my first consideration. War isn't called Hell for no reason.


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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Dresden » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:05 pm)

Inquisitor said:

"There are a number of photos in the "Im Bild" (in pictures) books accompany various German Divisional histories (particularly Waffen-SS) put out originally Munin Verlag, etc., that show the results of Partisan murder, mutilation, and so forth. I'd not have to see that happen to my comrades more than once before anyone and everyone of any age was "fair game" that took part in these terrorist activities. It is indeed tragic that children were used in that way - but in war and if it were my life on the line...well, mercy wouldn't be my first consideration. War isn't called Hell for no reason"


Thank you for that moment of sanity, Inquisitor! :D
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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby Hannover » 4 years 9 months ago (Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:33 am)

As I stated:
Certainly Allied troops had no problem killing German children who fought against them.

and Werd replied:
Dresden does not count

Here are some easily found non-Dresden photos of German children who fought with the Wehrmacht.

ImageImageImage

spaceboy claims that Himmler said this:
Thus I have basically given the order to also kill the wives and children of these partisans, and commissars. I would be a weakling and a criminal to our descendants if I allowed the hate-filled sons of the sub-humans we have liquidated in this struggle of humanity against subhumanity to grow up

This is supposedly from one of the 'secret' speeches by Himmler, supposedly recorded. Right, the Germans would 'record' a claimed secret speech, a 'secret' speech given to a large group. Just a bit fishy.
There's numerous take downs of the alleged content of those speeches at is forum, ex.:
Himmler's Sonthofen Speeches
and:
Posen speech

It's interesting here that the text has been twisted to make it seem that "wives and children" were targeted outside of their illegal partisan/terrorist activities. As if somehow they just innocently traveled around with the partisans, which makes no sense from a logistical, limited resources perspective. 'Partisans' would not take their family members and children with him into action unless they were used in the fighting. And as I have shown in earlier posts in this thread, "wives and children" actually fought with the 'partisans'. They were not innocent victims, they were just as vulnerable to legal counter measures as adult men.

Historian and lawyer Wilhelm Staeglich points out that the origin of the claimed verbatim text is highly suspicious, see cited thread.
One would never be permitted to make claims of verbatim text in a legitimate court of law without producing an original document, or without producing the recording, as is claimed in this case; verifiable provenance would be required. That is not the case of the claimed text of Himmler's 'secret' speeches.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby borjastick » 4 years 9 months ago (Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:09 am)

One only has to see the film Defiance starring Daniel Craig, or read the book, to see quite clearly what is being shown here about women and children fighting for the partisans against the Germans in the Russian front.

Here's the blurb from IMDB
Jewish brothers in Nazi-occupied Eastern Europe escape into the Belarussian forests, where they join Russian resistance fighters and endeavor to build a village in order to protect themselves and about 1,000 Jewish non-combatants.


It's a good yarn based on facts as claimed by the jews where they lived for a year or so in the cold forests to launch attacks on those horrible Nazis...
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby hermod » 4 years 9 months ago (Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:58 pm)

Old enough to shoot, old enough to be shot if caught...
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Vincent Reynouard on the Einsatzgruppen

Postby EtienneSC » 4 years 9 months ago (Sat May 02, 2015 3:18 am)

Vincent Reynouard's series on the Einsatzgruppen is now up to part 3 (of 4 now intended). Here is part 3:

In this part, Reynouard starts on the actual Einsatzgruppen orders and activities. There was a trial of the Einsatzgruppen officers - which I did not know - and he uses this as a basis for his analysis. I think this is a wise decision from a revisionist perspective. He points out that none of the three orders identified in the trial documents are incriminating as regards systematic elimination of Jews. However, Jews were regarded as a separate group.

Once again, the paucity of revisionist work on the Einsatzgruppen would make an English translation of this work (made under difficult circumstances) valuable to the revisionist community internationally.


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