fraud 'historian' Martin Gilbert at work

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Hannover
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fraud 'historian' Martin Gilbert at work

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 7 years ago (Fri Jan 17, 2003 8:01 pm)

So called 'historian' Martin Gilbert, while widely quoted, is a con-man, he's a liar. He are excellent examples of this shyster at work.
- Hannover

How Historian Gilbert Falsifies and Invents

Robert Faurisson

British historian Martin Gilbert is a falsifier. While he is best known as the official biographer of Winston Churchill, he has also written several widely-lauded works on the "Holocaust." Gilbert, who is Jewish, staunchly defends the thesis of the so-called extermination of the Jews, an extermination allegedly carried out in particular by means of homicidal "gas chambers" and homicidal "gas vans." To defend this thesis he falsifies and invents.

Falsifying the 'Gerstein Document'

In his distortion of the "Gerstein Document" in 1979 and 1986, Gilbert showed that he is capable of falsification. The various postwar confessions of SS officer Kurt Gerstein, known collectively as the "Gerstein Document" are completely devoid of any scholarly value, as Paul Rassinier showed in the 1960s and as the studies of Henri Roques in France (with my collaboration) and Carlo Mattogno in Italy established in 1985. (See: H. Roques, The "Confessions" of Kurt Gerstein, published by the IHR.) But just like French Jewish historian Léon Poliakov, Martin Gilbert used these confessions to
support his thesis. Here I will show how he did that and, for the sake of clarity here, I am adding emphasis to some of the figures mentioned.

Speaking about the alleged gas chamber at Belzec, Kurt Gerstein wrote:

Die Menschen stehen einander auf den Füssen, 700-800 Menschen auf 25 Quadratmetern in 45 Kubikmetern ... 750 Menschen in 45 Kubikmetern. ("The people stand on each other's feet, 700-800 people on 25 square meters in 45 cubic meters ... 750 people in 45 cubic meters.") (Source: page 5 of Nuremberg document PS-2170, as Gilbert indicates.)

It is obviously impossible for 700 to 800 people to stand on a surface of 25 square meters and inside a space of 45 cubic meters. That would be the same as trying to fit 28 to 32 persons in a space that is one square meter in surface area, and 1.8 meters high. The fact that Gerstein made such a statement to the Allies, who held him as their prisoner, shows what his mental condition was. He always used these same figures, repeating them on several occasions. But Gilbert completely changed these numbers in an effort to make Gerstein's tale believable. He even changed them in one way in 1979 and in another way in 1986.

In his 1979 book, Final Journey: The Fate of the Jews in Nazi Europe (New York: Mayflower Books, p. 91), here is how Gilbert quoted Gerstein: "The naked people stand on each other's feet. About seven to eight hundred people in an area of about a hundred square meters."

Among other distortions, Gilbert quadrupled the surface of the gas chamber, removed the mention of the cubic meters and likewise left out the number 750. Finally, he left out the repetition by Gerstein of the mention of cubic meters. If he had retained the mention, made twice, of the 45 cubic meters, we would have had a gas chamber of around 100 square meters and of 45 cubic meters, that is to say a room containing around 700 to 800 persons standing that would have been less than a half meter high.

In a 1986 work, though, Gilbert revises this, quoting Gerstein as saying: "Seven to eight hundred people in ninety-three square meters." (Source: The Holocaust: The Jewish Tragedy, New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, p. 427. On page 864 Gilbert indicates as his source: "Kurt Gerstein, statement of May 6, 1945, Tübingen: International Military Tribunal, Nuremberg, document PS-2170.")

In this case, the number 25 has been replaced with the number 93. A precise figure was apparently chosen to give the impression of exactitude and rigor. Once again, all references to cubic meters have disappeared.

For this reason alone we must conclude that Gilbert deliberately falsified the writings of Gerstein. He falsified them in a number of other ways as well, most notably by editing the text so as to hide other nonsensical things Gerstein said. (That's also the method used by Léon Poliakov.)

Inventing 'Gassing' Figures

In his effort to sustain the invented story that masses of Jews were gassed at Belzec, Treblinka and elsewhere, Gilbert engages in a deceitful manipulation of figures. In his 1981 book, Auschwitz and the Allies (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, p. 26), he wrote:

The deliberate attempt to destroy systematically all of Europe's Jews was unsuspected in the spring and early summer of 1942: the very period during which it was at its most intense, and during which hundreds of thousands of Jews were being gassed every day at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka.

For the moment, let's not concern ourselves with the fact that no one was ever gassed at those camps, nor in any other camp either. Instead, let us focus on Gilbert's use of figures. Let us suppose that "hundreds of thousands" means only 200,000. That would make 200,000 Jews gassed per day, and therefore 1,400,000 each week. If during the spring and the early summer we have four months, or 17 weeks -- that makes 1,400,000 a week, times 17 weeks, for a total of 23,800,000 Jews gassed in just those four small camps, and during a period of just four months!

More can be said about Martin Gilbert, about his ignorance of history, his dishonesty and even his empty productivity. On December 3, 1986, I wrote to him to ask for some explanations about the way he reproduced the Gerstein texts. He never answered.

-- March 4, 1987
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby grapple » 1 decade 7 years ago (Sat Jan 18, 2003 7:56 am)

The whole problems here is that you are not actually suppose to read Holocaust Promoter books. You are just supposed to buy them and place them on the shelf. I became a Holocaust Skeptic not by reading Denier material but by reading some Holocaust Promoters books and finding out that the stories were so contradictory or physically impossible.

It will probably be made a hate crime to actually read a holocaust promoter book; instead you will buy it and pray to it like any other religious symbol. Maybe they should only be written in Hebrew so that the unanointed will not read them. It could be like the Old Catholic Church having all of the Bibles in Latin so that the Church could control how the Bible was interpreted.

But it is not really necessary since at least at the libraries that I visit most of the Holocaust Promoter books appear to be unread since they are in mint condition. I think that I am the first person to actually open many of them. But this does not stop the libraries from buying more since it is the one section of the History area that is actually growing.

I wonder if the Holocaust Promoters realize how dangerous their own books are.

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Postby DaveDundee » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:17 am)

I am reading The Holocaust: The Jewish Tragedy by Martin Gilbert.
959 pages.
INDEX - I am surprised to find has no mention of 'Elie Wiesel',
or 'Gas Chambers' though it lists "Gas (poison gas) and only 20 page numbers.
I would have expected in a book text 828 pages long to have more than 20 referances to Gas Chambers.
Wiesel.
Sometimes it is the things that are NOT seen NOT there that are the important things.
Any heads up/info on this book please?

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Postby JackBQuick » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:13 am)

DaveDundee,

Can you check for me if there are any mention of forensic evidence in the Index?
The Holocaust belief was doomed from the beginning; it rests on a rotten foundation.

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Postby DaveDundee » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:45 am)

No mention of 'forensic evidence' OR 'evidence'.
Someone said, ""and there may be much to learn both from the evidence of things and things not seen""

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Postby Maly Jacek » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:11 am)

If you look at reference pages,you can see what is "documentary evidence" Gilbert based his book on.Mostly "eyewitness testimonies",newspaper reports,interviews with "survivors" or just pure inventions.Good example of last one is on page 297 that deals with clearing Minsk ghetto

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Postby DaveDundee » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:39 am)

The Holocaust: The Jewish Tragedy by Martin Gilbert.

page 297 that deals with clearing Minsk ghetto.

Specially dug pit - thrown alive by SS into deep sand - SS through handfuls of sweets to the shrieking children. All the children perished in the deep sand.

Way to go. If I'm ever in deep shi... sand, I want the SS to give me sweets.

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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:50 am)

Ah, Gilbert's book brings back memories...

It was published in 1986, and the following year I happened to stumble on it in the library (I had always solely been interested in military history, and had more or less accepted the six million story at that time).

When I read The Holocaust for the first time, I was immediately quizzical; I found it to be more of a collection of short stories than a work of history. I decided to read it again, and soon after became a sceptic. I then was lucky enough to get a copy of Butz's work in an Islamic bookstore in London (now closed down, alas) and I became a convinced Holocau$t revisionist.

I agree with the idea that revisonism is best served by offering potential sceptics copies of Holocau$t propaganda works. Based on my experience, I would place Gilbert's The Holocaust right at the very top.

DaveDundee, you have picked out some of the classic stories - my personal silly tale however is the story of an alleged guard at Majdanek named Dziobaty and the Jew with the hernia. Makes me laugh every time to the point where I feel I myself might develop a hernia. Check it out, pages 570-571 of the 1st edition (hardback).

/Ajax
Last edited by Ajax on Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Maly Jacek » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:21 am)

There are more stories like that.Page 212..."German policeman drowned 30 Jewish children in the water-filled caly pits near Okopowa Street (Warsaw) ".Maybe he gave them sweets so they could quitly wait for their turn to be drowned.

and here is where Gilbert let his imagination really run a bit too wild

p.760

"When train with more then 500 Jews reached Birkenau on November 3rd (1944) admin office telephoned to Mauthausen

"we have a transport here: could you handle in in your gas chambers ?"

answer was :

"that would a waste of coal burnt in the locomotive.You should be able to handle this load yourself"

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Postby DaveDundee » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:42 am)

Page numbers are differant ? I have old library copy published 1990/92

But did email Martin Gilbert.
...edited....
--- [email protected] wrote:
> Name: Dave
> Email Address: [email protected]

> Comments: Hi Martin, I have started reading The
> Holocaust, in the INDEX I
> dont see any mentions of Gas Chambers? Is it true
> what they are saying?
> Or Elie Wiesel. I thought he was the Top Man?
>

Dear David,

Alas, you will find plenty of gas chambers in the book
itself.

I did not use Elie Wiesel's book NIGHT, as I had many
other unpublished testimonies to quote from.

In an future edition I will add the "gas chambers"
index entry, and I will include Elie Wiesel - with
pleasure.

There is no "top man" (as you write) in this terrible
saga, only victims, and survivors: though of course
Elie Wiesel is one of the most powerful contemporary
voices of the survivors. I refer to that - and to him
- with a photograph, in my book NEVER AGAIN: A HISTORY
OF THE HOLOCAUST, which you might find of interest.

Thank you for writing.

Yours sincerely,

Martin Gilbert

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Postby Maly Jacek » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:14 pm)

I'm not sure I think one I read was hardback edition from late 1980's.Since book is in the library I would need to check it again

Dave if it happens that you email him again,you can ask if he still believes in "gas chambers" in Mauthausen

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri May 27, 2005 9:40 am)

Here's another example of shyster Gilbert at work.

Science, the enemy of the 'holocau$t' tales.

- Hannover

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/con ... lbert.html
"R. D. Jaeger" has this scathing commentary on historian Sir Martin Gilbert's treatment of the "Gerstein Report". Gilbert has made a number of errors in his treatment of this document, all of which Jaeger set down in his unpublished "Work in Progress" (of which this is an extract).

SIR MARTIN GILBERT, in an analysis of the "Gerstein Report" in his epic The Holocaust, has tried to get around the contradictions concerning the killing of 700-800 people in an area of 25 square metres by putting the surface area of the Belzec "gas chamber" at ninety-three square metres instead of the usually cited twenty-five, while at the same time craftily omitting Kurt Gerstein's reference to the volume of forty-five cubic metres, the size of a small living room. Gilbert's source for the figure of ninety-three square metres appears to be his fellow exterminationist, the late Leon Poliakov, who makes this same "error".

Even if we choose to give Gilbert the benefit of the doubt concerning the figure of ninety-three square metres and place the blame for the "production" of this fragment of misinformation squarely on Poliakov, we can find no excuse for his omission of Gerstein's figure of forty-five cubic metres, which is mentioned clearly -- twice -- in the "report".

On cursorily examining the figures, the reason for Sir Martin Gilbert's omission of this figure becomes patently obvious -- one does not have to hold a degree in geometry or mathematics to work out that a structure with both a surface area of ninety-three square metres and a volume of forty-five cubic metres would had to have had a height of some forty-eight centimetres, around 18 inches, which would hardly have been the optimum specifications for a homicidal "gas chamber".

By falsifying Gerstein's figures, Gilbert appears to have succeeded only in making an already absurd story even more ridiculous. In the light of the conclusions drawn by Walter Lüftl in the Lüftl Report, such subtle changes should not make the story any more acceptable; nevertheless, a reader unaware of the scientific facts may well be tricked into believing Gilbert's variation of the story by dint of the fact that filling an area of ninety-three square metres with around 750 people is just about physically possible (whereas getting the same amount of people into a bit more than a quarter of this area is certainly not).

On calculating this, he or she would probably accept the story as being feasible from that point on and leave it at that, without attempting to examine the issue any further: a simple case of applying the maxim "if 'A' is believable, then 'B' must be also".

On the figure of ninety-three square metres, it is this author's contention that if indeed it means anything at all, it might well have been the total area covered by the complete installation (i.e. the four "gas chambers" to which Gerstein refers, each of which, according to the report, had held between seven and eight-hundred people). Of course, this in turn creates yet more problems, for then we have the even more improbable scenario of three thousand people (that is the four lots of seven-hundred and fifty) being crammed into an area of ninety-three square metres. The conclusions are obvious.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon May 30, 2005 11:41 am)

Ah, nice to see some of my stuff doing the rounds. :)

This is a slightly abridged extract - the original, now lost in time, was slightly more sarcastic. For example, where I make the reference to the height of this structure being some 48 inches, there followed a reference to these installations being a possible model for Mengele's special 'gas chambers' at Auschwitz - where, of course, he would have 'disposed' of his extensive collection of Jewish dwarves.
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Postby FW » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon May 30, 2005 1:02 pm)

Ajax wrote:Ah, nice to see some of my stuff doing the rounds. :)

This is a slightly abridged extract - the original, now lost in time, was slightly more sarcastic. For example, where I make the reference to the height of this structure being some 48 inches, there followed a reference to these installations being a possible model for Mengele's special 'gas chambers' at Auschwitz - where, of course, he would have 'disposed' of his extensive collection of Jewish dwarves.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/9/3/ ... 1-360.html
This reminds me of the Roman holocaust in Judea:
Sixty-four million Jewish children, according to the Talmud, are supposed to have been slaughtered by the Gentiles in Bethar. Another section of the Talmud says that the Romans killed 4 billion Jews or "as some say" 40 million Jews.
Anyway, someone did some calculations (I wish I could remember where I saw that) and worked out that these Jews would have to be around the size of 1/72 or 1/35 scale figures for them to have occupied the area named in such numbers. Perhaps these micro-gas chambers were being built to accomodate these people?


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