It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

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friedrich braun
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It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

Postby friedrich braun » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:13 pm)

Irving claims that gassings occurred at two villas outside Auschwitz, what is his evidence?

Q - And Hitler, wasn't he more bloodthirsty?

A - The key question is how much Hitler knew about what Himmler and his SS were up to. And the answer is that Himmler took very great care not to tell him anything. On one occasion Himmler's chief of staff, Karl Wolff, found him depressed and asked him "What's the matter?" - And he answered, "I am doing something that the Messiah of the coming 2000 years must never know." By "the Messiah", he was alluding to Hitler.

Q - But why hide the Holocaust from Hitler, if they both had the same goal of exterminating the Jews?

A - The allegation that the Nazi leader sought to exterminate the Jews is a propaganda lie. In Hitler's speeches he just repeated the one anti-Semitic utterance. Something about "if they ever begin a world war, the Jews will be the ones to suffer". But it was always the same stereotype expression.

Q - Do you mean that Hitler was the only innocent in the Nazi circles of power?

A - Hitler was the Head of State, and because of that, he was accountable for what was happening. But one can be both accountable and ignorant. Hitler was a simple man constantly deceived by his subordinates.

Q - But you do accept that the Nazis wanted to exterminate the Jews.

A - Goebbels and Himmler, yes. But it would be interesting to know why neither the UK nor Sweden nor any other country wanted to accept Europe's Jews? And for that matter also why when Germany asked the Hungarians, the Rumanians, and the Slovaks if they might take care of their Jews, all willingly agreed. Even if as I suppose the mere fact of raising these questions makes me an anti-Semite.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/09/09/El_Mu ... _Engl.html
Last edited by friedrich braun on Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

Postby PotPie » 1 decade 3 months ago (Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:44 pm)

Good question. Every witness testimony I've seen of these "bunkers" is inconsistent in detail, manner, and method. How anyone thinks they can glean anything historically valid out of it is beyond me. Some who claim to have been there said it was by gassing, still others by shooting and letting people fall into flaming pits. In reading testimonies it becomes clear rather quickly that a good number of people have decided to include witnessing that which they did not witness themselves, for whatever reason(s) that may be, and a number of these false testimonies have leaked into the historical record due to lack of vigilance as to a verification process.

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Re: It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 2 months ago (Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:31 pm)

It doesn’t matter that David Irving now thinks that Himmler and Goebbels had a certain number of Jews murdered for just being Jews. How many? The problem remains the same for any such theory. Show us the bodies or at least show us the graves or cremated bodies that would support this new claim of his; show us the gas chambers, and show us the crematoriums that could have done the job. No body and no weapon usually means no murder, regardless of the motive.

I won’t deny there was a motive, after all the ongoing Jewish/Christian war has been going on for a long, long time, 2000 years, and both sides have much to be ashamed of: The Bolshevik revolution, the Inquisition and so on, but that doesn’t change the 1,2,3 of any murder trial: body, weapon, and motive.

I wonder what his motives are?
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

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Re: It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 2 months ago (Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:48 pm)

Barrington James wrote:I wonder what his motives are?


My two cents on that: he knows Auschwitz will, come what may, lose its large share of the "Holocaust" even further in the common view, so he is trying to occupy what looks to him like the high grounds of the Reinhardt camps that will be sought as refuge by the orthodox historians in retreat from the Birkenau gas chambers. "What did I tell you?" would be his way of returning in triumph and forcing his critics to acknowledge his theories.

Not unintelligent, nor, of course, very principled. But keep in mind the attenuating fact that he has always proclaimed his lack of interest in the "Holocaust," other than Hitler's role in it, and this appears to be true.

Of course, it may turn out that the Auschwitz share of the popular imagination will be successfully unloaded on the little known but emerging "Eastern Auschwitzes" -- basically Maly Trostinets and Jungernhof, again included in a popular book among the "camps built for implementation of Final Solution", alongside 5 of the traditional big 6 (Chelmno is out), in Richard Overy's Atlas of 20th Century History, as they were a decade or so before in Gilbert's Times Atlas of the Second World War (a multi-authored work, but Gilbert was the one in charge of the "Holocaust" part).

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Re: It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:19 am)

Barrington James wrote:
I won’t deny there was a motive, after all the ongoing Jewish/Christian war has been going on for a long, long time, 2000 years, and both sides have much to be ashamed of: The Bolshevik revolution, the Inquisition and so on, but that doesn’t change the 1,2,3 of any murder trial: body, weapon, and motive.

I wonder what his motives are?


What has the Spanish Inquisition got to do with Jews?
Actually NOTHING

The Inquisition was an ecclesiastical tribunal which only had jurisdiction over baptized Christians, the Tribunals role was to ensure that Christens would adhere to Orthodox Catholicism other all other forms of Christianity.

in a nut shell, Yoos only got themselves into trouble by pretending to be converts for the sake of commercial interest.
Ya know when money is involved Yoos just can't help themselves, just lying & cheating their way even into other Religions just for the sake of it.


Just another Yooish Lie that has been "re-invented", twisted & filtered into the minds of the mindless masses.
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.

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Re: It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:40 am)

Barrington James wrote:
I won’t deny there was a motive, after all the ongoing Jewish/Christian war has been going on for a long, long time, 2000 years, and both sides have much to be ashamed of: The Bolshevik revolution, the Inquisition and so on, but that doesn’t change the 1,2,3 of any murder trial: body, weapon, and motive.



By my reckoning Christians have nothing to be ashamed of, let's see

The Bolshevik Revolution, run by the jews for the jews, that's 1 to the Jews
The Inquisition (as I've already explained above), that's 2 to the Jews

The conquest of the Iberian Peninsula by the Moors in 711 AD, for those that don't know the "Moors" (Muslims from North Africa) captured a large swathe of Spain in an 8 year campaign, Let's examine how & why the Moorish Army was so successful in their conquest

It's simple really, the Moorish Army NEVER had to GARRISON a Town or City after it's capture, the local JEWS were all to WILLING to become the TOWN WATCH, SHERIFFS etc on behalf of the invading Muslim Army, thereby FREEING up the Moorish Army to conquer the next Town

That makes it 3 to the Jews

Please feel free to jump in & point out where in any point in History Jews have actually been the victims NOT OF THEIR OWN DOING, because for the life of me I just can't find an example.
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.



Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Re: It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

Postby patriot9878 » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:13 am)

It's like everything hinges on David Irving. I mean David has started to change directions. All it would take is for Irving to say the holocaust actually happened, but it was only about 2.5 million and we would lose any momentum we had. If the holocaust is a hoax how come these Jewish Commies have not been taken before a court and tried for their crimes?
I say as important as this is instead of a yearly meeting these people should be meeting monthly in countries that will allow them. They could host another Holocaust denial gathering in Iran. The Asian countries and their media would cover the events. In America whenever they have meetings planned the hotels block them and they have to move their meeting place. The reason I say this, because as time rolls along the elitists gain ground. It would have been 100 times easier to have attacked 20 or 30 yearsa ago than it is right now, because of all the new technology they have. Back then it would have been guns against guns, but now it's guns against so many modern weapons that guns are uesless.
Instead of meeting at a hotel where the meeting is cancelled and it disrupts the whole process. Why not just plan to meet in every state in this country? They could procure a meeting place like a warehouse, because it's nice to have a nice hotel to meet, but they always cancel at the last minute when the Jews discover where they will meet. We are in the 11th hour. If things are about to occur like they say, then it's too late for meetings and just time to find a place to live outside the cities and survive.

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Re: It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

Postby Hektor » 3 years 11 months ago (Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:48 am)

On one occasion Himmler's chief of staff, Karl Wolff, found him depressed and asked him "What's the matter?" - And he answered, "I am doing something that the Messiah of the coming 2000 years must never know." By "the Messiah", he was alluding to Hitler.


That's full of innuendo. But what is that supposed to mean?
He assumes that "messiah" is supposed to be "Hitler".
What is that "something" supposed to mean?

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Re: It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

Postby Inquisitor » 3 years 11 months ago (Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:30 am)

Hektor wrote:
On one occasion Himmler's chief of staff, Karl Wolff, found him depressed and asked him "What's the matter?" - And he answered, "I am doing something that the Messiah of the coming 2000 years must never know." By "the Messiah", he was alluding to Hitler.


That's full of innuendo. But what is that supposed to mean?
He assumes that "messiah" is supposed to be "Hitler".
What is that "something" supposed to mean?


Agreed. It also just sounds so...Hollywood, so to speak.

Wolff has always struck me as an entirely "compromised" source of any information anyway. The numerous trials and imprisonments, then the reduced sentences and releases, the typical "I saw nothing, but..." kind of "confessions" and the whole works.

Wikipedia:
Wolff was allowed to escape prosecution by providing evidence against his fellow Nazi


You don't say...

For Heavens' sake, it's even rumored he was a CIA operative at some point - which opens up a whole can of worms unto itself!

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Re: It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

Postby Hektor » 3 years 11 months ago (Thu Dec 24, 2015 4:17 am)

Inquisitor wrote:....
Agreed. It also just sounds so...Hollywood, so to speak.

Wolff has always struck me as an entirely "compromised" source of any information anyway. The numerous trials and imprisonments, then the reduced sentences and releases, the typical "I saw nothing, but..." kind of "confessions" and the whole works.
And that's not even coming from a Revisionist source. But then Revisionists are outnumbered more the 100 : 1 --- without the resources the orthodox historiography has at is disposal.
http://hgs.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/1/74
Inquisitor wrote:....
Wikipedia:
Wolff was allowed to escape prosecution by providing evidence against his fellow Nazi

You don't say...
For Heavens' sake, it's even rumored he was a CIA operative at some point - which opens up a whole can of worms unto itself!
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Not impossible and even likely given his position, knowledge and skills. And of course the fact that one can blackmail him with his "past".
Perception is all that there is. But Wolff did always dispute actual knowledge of "extermination". Where does that leave one.

Btw. There is another "Wolff", Georg Wolff, who was in the SS, SD to be exact, and made a career in the licensed media of post war Germany (Der Spiegel). One has to wonder.

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Re: It was all Himmler's fault, says Irving

Postby Inquisitor » 3 years 11 months ago (Sat Dec 26, 2015 3:01 am)

Hektor wrote: But Wolff did always dispute actual knowledge of "extermination". Where does that leave one.


I think his disputing that knowledge was more a skin-saving move than anything else. It is, perhaps, the historical precedent for the 'acceptable' "oh, sure it happened all right...but I had nothing to do with it, nor any knowledge of it" defense. In other words, like many in his position, he was far more interested in protecting his own longevity and so forth, than trying to be some sort of hero for the cause or truth, knowing he'd certainly end up hanging from a rope that way. I'm sure he was fully aware of how many believed to have had any knowledge or/involvement in any supposed mass-killings had fared. On that level, one cannot really blame him for allowing his survival instincts to take over to some degree.

Then again - who really knows?

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