2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

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Werd
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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Werd » 3 years 8 months ago (Sun Feb 28, 2016 10:57 pm)

Lohengrin wrote:I'm not going in detail yet now, but in 1945 there WAS a Name Changing Decree, There WERE huge numbers of Jews coming back from Soviet territory to Poland, there WERE very important reasons why specifically name changing for Jews was very comfortably for "Holocaust" AND Soviet-policy reasons, etc., etc.

So Polish Jews who were evacuated into Soviet territory returned and got name changes. Interesting theory.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Atigun » 3 years 8 months ago (Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:44 pm)

Lohengrin wrote:Because First I'm preparing now my extensed reaction to remarks and questions, Second I conclude that there are already given important contributions and information to clarify this issue, Third that in it is hardly given any fact against it, Last that there hasn't yet been any discussion/conclusion taken place about this (as I said myself before) indeed meager source-based material.

I'm not going in detail yet now, but in 1945 there WAS a Name Changing Decree, There WERE huge numbers of Jews coming back from Soviet territory to Poland, there WERE very important reasons why specifically name changing for Jews was very comfortably for "Holocaust" AND Soviet-policy reasons, etc., etc.


We're all pulling for you, Lohengrin, but I'm sure that you can understand that your information is such a game changer that it must be verified beyond any shadow of doubt.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Hannover » 3 years 8 months ago (Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:37 am)

Werd comments to Lohengrin:
So Polish Jews who were evacuated into Soviet territory returned and got name changes. Interesting theory.
Knowing of the suffering of Christian Poles under the communist Soviet occupation, knowing that Jews were generally sympathetic to brutal Soviet communism, knowing that Jews were seen as Soviet communist collaborators, and knowing that these same Jews were evacuated by the communist Soviets makes it easy to understand why there was Polish resentment against Jews. Hence a Jew returning to Poland would want to change his / her name to hide their complicity. Most likely the rule rather than the exception.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby borjastick » 3 years 8 months ago (Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:22 am)

borjastick wrote:There appears to be little doubt that the name change decree happened. It is referenced in great detail in this book;
Beyond Violence: Jewish Survivors in Poland and Slovakia, 1944–48
By Anna Cichopek-Gajraj


https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hem ... nd&f=false

I have read a number of the pages shown on the link above and it appears to be without doubt. The only question now remains to be how many jews took advantage of this decree?


As shown in my post repeated above the name change decree did in fact happen. If you read some of the pages I link to you will have seen that there were German sounding names as well as jews of course. It's typical of Nessie to deliberately ignore facts as reported in a jewish book of jewish Polish history by claiming only German sounding names were those changed.

Just read page 201 to see the detail you need.
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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby EtienneSC » 3 years 8 months ago (Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:37 am)

Hannover wrote: [...] knowing that Jews were generally sympathetic to brutal Soviet communism, [...]

There's a difference between being sympathetic to the communism and being sympathetic to the brutality...

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 8 months ago (Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:37 am)

EtienneSC wrote:
Hannover wrote: [...] knowing that Jews were generally sympathetic to brutal Soviet communism, [...]

There's a difference between being sympathetic to the communism and being sympathetic to the brutality...

This is true as a reflection on Hannover's comment, but Poles in 1945-6 might have been less willing than you or I now to make the distinction. As I pointed out above, the Jews who took power under the Communist regime in 1945 were among the name-changers.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Atigun » 3 years 8 months ago (Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:38 am)

EtienneSC wrote:
Hannover wrote: [...] knowing that Jews were generally sympathetic to brutal Soviet communism, [...]

There's a difference between being sympathetic to the communism and being sympathetic to the brutality...


That's like saying there's a difference between being sympathetic to a steaming pile of excrement and and being sympathetic to the stench.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby borjastick » 3 years 8 months ago (Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:37 am)

I don't want to tell Lohengrin how to suck eggs but I would suggest he contacts the author and publisher of the book he quotes from. Ask them for their sources and documentary evidence.

Then contact the Polish government information office and find out by a freedom of information request, the details of the name change decree and the take up of it. This may require a Polish citizen to do this on his behalf.

Finally contact either the Vatican press office and or Pope John Paul 11s office to see if any verification of his intervention can be provided.

This is important work, the results of which could demolish the holocaust once and for all. No 3m Polish dead = no holocaust.
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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Lohengrin » 3 years 8 months ago (Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:20 pm)

As "instigator" of this thread I feel obliged to answer and explain (if possible) some of the arising questions.

(To Mod1: I understand your backstep and accept it.)

First, I want to clarify my position in this topic because some people attack me for the (indeed thin) sources, as well as the number of 2,6 million Polish jews. I fear, this number has taken a life on its own on this forum. However, I'm only a service hatch to bring this information, I find it important enough for further study/proving it. In the meantime, it's probably careful to place a query after the thread title, until further investigation is done.

Be it as it is, I think this matter (true, half true or untrue) important for the revisionist sake to study and/or clarify.

I brought it in a dedicated thread cause Hannover and some others suggested so I and hope by collective discussion to gather solid information about it.

My sources are indeed scanty and thin ( http://www.sztetl.org.pl/en/term/493,po ... me-change/ ) .

The Dutch book was published a few years ago on internet. The writer's name is a pseudonym. A publisher isn't given, nor any ISBN number. Searching the net gives no further information about his person or other publications. However, the book is as serious as it is voluminous and very dedicated (two Parts, 1,240 pages, nearly 2,400 footnotes).
Some time later I came along an actualized version, which in it the footnotes with the name changing decree from 1945 and the given number of 2,6 million Jews.
I read the original source some time ago, but now can't find the link anymore in the original form. I hope, as Reviso suggested, someone can help using the "Internet Wayback Machine" (I myself don't know how it works).

The other footnote mentioned a 1989 "demand" to Polish Pope John Paul II to use his authority preventing the Polish Government to open archives about the subject, as being "anti-semitic". John Paul II was a Polish Pope dedicated to improve Catholic Church's relations with Judaism; later he wrote he was: "deeply saddened by the hatred, acts of persecution and displays of anti-Semitism directed against the Jews by Christians at any time and in any place."

I did store this information in my mind until a discussion on this site about "millions" of "murdered" (Polish) Jews. Next to other facts proving "6 million Jews murdered, included 3 million Polish Jews" it seemed me worthwhile to mention this Post War Polish name changing matter (starting 1945!).

In my opinion it is relevant because:

1. It is known from revisionist research that 1,5-2 million Polish Jews fled, before and during the War to Soviet territory.

2. It's not plausible that all of them stayed in the SU after the War. Much of them had possessions in Poland, real estate, business interests, positions, etc. and wanted to claim those back again.

3. In 1945, Soviet communist regime took over Poland to permanently stay there. The Soviets had and were flooding the World with their "millions and millions of people murdered by the murderous fascists" and of course zero interest or motivation to downplay this ludicrous propaganda by admitting huge numbers of Polish (and other Eastern Europeans) being alive coming back.

4. Moreover, huge numbers of "murdered by the fascists" were instrumental to downplay their own monstrous misdeeds before, during and after the War.

5. Jewish interests were close in keeping with that. They also propagandized before, during and after the War their Talmudic "Six Million Jews murdered" mantra and couldn't concede huge numbers of Jews in reality survived. This the more so, because just at that time they were constructing their "Jewish State" Israel, motivated by "Six Million Jews murdered".

6. This problem could partly be solved by granting returning Polish Jews the opportunity to change their names (and as a consequence leaving "old" names as "missing" in "the Holocaust"). And so it happens after 1945, I suppose. A Win-Win situation for communists and Jews.

7. Of course, most Jews made use of this generous possibility. Reasons for them were plenty and in itself justified. Jew-hate was vigilant and very aggressive in Poland directly after the War. There was much anti-Jewish violence and rioting against them, for example in Kielce in July 1946 where 40 Jews were killed. (Question: were vigorous Post-War anti-Jewish sentiments possibly related to huge numbers of returning Jews, claiming former possessions, houses, positions, etc.?). So name-changing came as called for.

Many Jews had typical Jewish and German-sounding names which, for security and social reasons both they want to convert to more neutral names.

Also believable are efforts not to make the Post-War Polish Name Changing public. This for further damage control to their "Six Million" murdered in "the Holocaust". That story is already hopelessly tattered ("4 million Jews died in Auschwitz" lowered to 1,1 million; in all other "extermination camps" (Treblinka, Chelmno, Sobibor, Belzec) not more than a few dozen corpses/ashes could be proven, etc.). What if masses of "name changers" will come to that? So it's very understandable that information about massive Post War Jewish name changing is kept behind closed doors.

FACTS about Polish name changing are:

- There WAS a Polish name changing decree immediately after the War (1945). (Further research is needed about reasons for it.)

- It is for CERTAIN that numerous Jews made use of the opportunity. (Further investigation is needed to ascertain by approximation HOW MUCH it were: tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands or more).

- HUGE Post War Jewish emigration from Poland was imminent.

Further research is needed to determine if archives about it for that period are open for public, and if not, for what reasons.

Further research is also needed what happened to the "old" Jewish names. Were these (partly) used supporting "millions of Jews "missing" in "the Holocaust"?

Was there any proven pressure to/from Pope John Paul II to use his authority to prevent disclosure of those important archive information after 1989? If so, from who, what was his reaction and/or was this effective?

Some of the reactions on this thread have already given useful information for further investigation. With the help of contributions on this thread, I will do further research about it.

I hope we will be able to gather more information to clear this important issue and came to a balanced conclusion.

["Werd" mentioned "Jewish World Organization" (JWO) being non-existent in 1989. I think it's because the source mistakenly spoke of "JWO", in stead of World Jewish Congress (WJC). It was only the "damages" robbing branch of WJC (WJRO) that was formed in 1991.]

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:57 am)

An impressive post by Lohengrin.

We must not in this discussion lose track of the important fact that the Poland of 1945 occupied a very different geographical territory. Jews from the former Eastern Poland would not be returning to their homes in Poland because those homes were no longer in Poland. In the new Polish territories taken from Germany there would have been a minority Polish population and people of mixed or ambiguous ethnicity. Such people would be desperate to prove their Polishness and getting a Polish name would be an important part of that.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Hektor » 3 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:39 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:An impressive post by Lohengrin.

We must not in this discussion lose track of the important fact that the Poland of 1945 occupied a very different geographical territory. Jews from the former Eastern Poland would not be returning to their homes in Poland because those homes were no longer in Poland. In the new Polish territories taken from Germany there would have been a minority Polish population and people of mixed or ambiguous ethnicity. Such people would be desperate to prove their Polishness and getting a Polish name would be an important part of that.

Or if you work for the secret police, Communist Party.... Looks better to be pretend being Polish. Especially after the experience with the impression Jewish nomenclature made in the Soviet Union on Russians and other non-Jews.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Thames Darwin » 3 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:08 pm)

Hannover wrote:Werd comments to Lohengrin:
So Polish Jews who were evacuated into Soviet territory returned and got name changes. Interesting theory.
Knowing of the suffering of Christian Poles under the communist Soviet occupation, knowing that Jews were generally sympathetic to brutal Soviet communism, knowing that Jews were seen as Soviet communist collaborators, and knowing that these same Jews were evacuated by the communist Soviets makes it easy to understand why there was Polish resentment against Jews. Hence a Jew returning to Poland would want to change his / her name to hide their complicity. Most likely the rule rather than the exception


I'm a little confused. I agree that Poles suffered under the Soviet occupation.

What makes you think Polish Jews sympathized with the Soviets, other than that they were against the Nazis?

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Free Speech » 3 years 8 months ago (Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:40 am)

Wayback machine did not produce any results, click the link (and see how easy it's used), they didn't archive it:
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://ww ... e-nazwisk/

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 8 months ago (Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:06 am)

Hektor wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:An impressive post by Lohengrin.

We must not in this discussion lose track of the important fact that the Poland of 1945 occupied a very different geographical territory. Jews from the former Eastern Poland would not be returning to their homes in Poland because those homes were no longer in Poland. In the new Polish territories taken from Germany there would have been a minority Polish population and people of mixed or ambiguous ethnicity. Such people would be desperate to prove their Polishness and getting a Polish name would be an important part of that.

Or if you work for the secret police, Communist Party.... Looks better to be pretend being Polish. Especially after the experience with the impression Jewish nomenclature made in the Soviet Union on Russians and other non-Jews.

Indeed. See the list of names I posted earlier in the thread.
[Edit] I didn't mention that in this post because I was dealing with the geographical issue.
Last edited by Kingfisher on Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2.6 Million Polish Jews Changed Names After War !!

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 8 months ago (Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:15 am)

Thames Darwin wrote:I'm a little confused. I agree that Poles suffered under the Soviet occupation.

What makes you think Polish Jews sympathized with the Soviets, other than that they were against the Nazis?


It doesn't take much googling to find plenty of support for this.


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