NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

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NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby Moderator » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 9:57 am)

This was originally posted by onetruth in the thread:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10394
I've made it a separate thread for uncluttered discussion.
Thanks, M1
[NO = Nuremberg Organizations (NMT; concerning organizations such as the SS)]
onetruth wrote:~

Regarding the numbers and fate of Jews under Nazi Germany control , I put forward the letter sent by SS-Oberfuehrer Brack to Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, June23, 1942.

The letter states the number of jews in Europe now under German control from which brack states that out of ten millions jews ,only 2-3 million should be exploited to work and kept alive. Those 2-3 millions should be kept alive yet it is needed to take measures that the do not reproduce. the suggested method is Castration by means of X-rays.

Document can be seen here :

Image

translation :

Honorable Mr. Reichsfuehrer!

On instruction from Reichsleiter Bouhler I placed a part of my men at
the disposal of Brigadefuehrer Globocnik some considerable time ago
for his special task. Following a further request from him, I have
now made available more personnel. On this occasion Brigadefuehrer
Globocnik pressed the view that the whole action against the Jews
should be carried out as quickly as it is in any way possible, so
that we will not some day be stuck in the middle should any kind
of difficulty make it necessary to stop the action. you yourself,
Mr. Reichsfuehrer, expressed the view to me at an earlier time that
one must work as fast as possible, if only for reasons of concealment.
Both views are more than justified according to my own experience,
and basically they produce the same results. Nevertheless I beg to
be permitted to present the following consideration of my own in
this connection:

According to my impression there are at least 2-3 million men and
women well fit for work among the approx. 10 million European
Jews. In consideration of the exceptional difficulties posed for
us by the question of labor, I am of the opinion that these 2-3
million should in any case be taken out and kept alive. Of course
this can only be done if they are in the same time rendered
incapable of reproduction. I reported to you about a year ago that
persons under my instruction have completed the necessary experiments
for this purpose. I wish to bring up these facts again. The type
of sterilization which is normally carried out on persons with
genetic disease is out of the question in this case, as it takes
too much time and is expensive. Castration by means of X-rays,
however, is not only relatively cheap, but can be carried out on
many thousands in a very short time. I believe that it has become
unimportant at the present time whether those affected will then
in the course of a few weeks or months realize by the effects that
they are castrated.

In the event, Mr. Reichsfuehrer, that you decide to choose these
means in the interest of maintaining labor-material, Reichsleiter
Bouhler will be ready to provide the doctors and other personnel
needed to carry out this work. He also instructed me to inform you
that I should then order the required equipment as quickly as
possible.


~


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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby Breker » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 10:25 am)

The entire letter is deemed more than suspect since there was never 10,000,000 Jews under German control.
We also fail to see a signature.
We see the letter ends abruptly in midstream without terminal punctuation, are there additional pages missing?
B.

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby onetruth » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 11:10 am)

~

I see the document was moved to a separate discussion which is good. I originally posted this document with regard to the numbers of Jewish people under Nazi german occupation debate. But this document does deserve a separate thread as it also spells out in in a way that can not be interpreted in any other way the intention to mass murder all the Jews under Nazi Germany control.

The only Concerns that Victor Brack has , is that there is a growing need for working hands and the need to keep them alive before all the Jews are exterminated. Therefore he suggests that out of the 10 million Jews , 2-3 millions would be allowed to live.


see here :


" According to my impression there are at least 2-3 million men and women well fit for work among the approx. 10 million European Jews. In consideration of the exceptional difficulties posed for us by the question of labor, I am of the opinion that these 2-3 million should in any case be taken out and kept alive. "


The only logical conclusion that can be derived from those lines , is that the remaining 7.5 -8 millions , would not be " taken out and kept alive " or in other words be murdered.


Brack also refers to the need for speed up the actions against the Jews so it would not be discovered or " if only for reasons of concealment " - this too i find cnt be read in other way but incriminating and is actually an admission of guilt of mass murder.


" the whole action against the Jews should be carried out as quickly as it is in any way possible, so that we will not some day be stuck in the middle should any kind of difficulty make it necessary to stop the action. you yourself, Mr. Reichsf�hrer, expressed the view to me at an earlier time that one must work as fast as possible, if only for reasons of concealment."



If we are to discuss this document it is also important to include the answer Himmler gave Brack :

Brack's letter was answered by Himmler on 11 August 1942. In the reply Himmler directed that sterilization by means of X-rays be tried in at least one concentration camp in a series of experiments.

This letters confirms that Bracks letter was received by Himmler :


"Dear Brack,

]It is only today that I have the opportunity of acknowledging the receipt of your letter of June 23. I am positively interested in seeing the sterilization by X-rays tried out at least once in one camp in a series of experiments.
"


Source for the answer letter by Himmler to Brack is :

Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, p. 722:

I would make an effort to find an original copy of that document as well.

~

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby Hannover » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 11:55 am)

onetruth:

Please show us the original German documents from which you supposedly quoted in your previous post.

And why haven't you addressed Breker's points? Here:
The entire letter is deemed more than suspect since there was never 10,000,000 Jews under German control.
We also fail to see a signature.
We see the letter ends abruptly in midstream without terminal punctuation, are there additional pages missing?
B.

- Hannover

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby onetruth » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 11:56 am)

Breker wrote:We also fail to see a signature.
We see the letter ends abruptly in midstream without terminal punctuation, are there additional pages missing?
B.



a copy for the second page of Brack's letter can be found here :

Image

Himmler's reply letter to Brack , in which he acknowledges the letter received from Brack on the 23 June , can be found here :

Image

The full translation reads as follows :

The Reich Leader SS
1314/42 [Handwritten]
XIa/126 [Handwritten]
11 August 1942
Figure 11 [Handwritten]
Field Headquarters
SS Senior Col. (SS Oberfuehrer) Brack
Berlin W 8 VossStrasse 4

Top Secret
4 copies
4th copy

Dear Brack:

It is only today that I have the opportunity of acknowledging the receipt of your letter of 23 June. I am positively interested in seeing that sterilization by X-rays is tried out at least once in one camp in a series of experiments. I will be very much obliged to Reichsleiter Bouhler if, to begin with, he would place the expert physicians for the series of experiments at our disposal.

I will mail a copy of this letter to the Reich Physician SS and to the competent Chief of the Main Office for concentration camps.

Heil Hitler!
Yours,
[Signed] H. Himmler
SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl
SS Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Grawitz For information.
By order
[Stamp] 11 August 1942
[Handwritten] Br. SS Obersturmbannfuehrer

~

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby borjastick » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 12:24 pm)

I ask one question only; How would Mr Brack know a figure of ten million jews from whom could be chosen 2-3 million who would be good for work?

On what basis, on what data, from what reports is a genuine claim made for 10 million jews which the German military would a) be able to identify and b) be able to physically apprehend?

To be honest this whole document smells of one week old haddock...
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby Hannover » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 1:13 pm)

Still no response to the absurd 10M Jews.

Some other revealing points:

- So what happened to the claimed "extermination policy"?
A plan to exterminate all the Jews in Europe, except they'd leave 2-3 million alive?

- Brack said in June:
About a year ago I reported to you that agents of mine had completed the experiments necessary for this purpose.
Himmler replied in August:
I am positively interested in seeing that sterilization by X-rays is tried out at least once in one camp in a series of experiments.
It makes no sense.
Brack supposedly said the experiments were completed in June, therefore Himmler wouldn't have asked that 'experiments' be conducted in August.

- Also "Top Secret" is not typed into a document, it was stamped. It isn't stamped in Himmler's 'response'.

- And, why sterilize them if they are to be 'exterminated' soon thereafter?

- There is a history of using Brack's name fraudulently as can be seen in relation to Nuremberg 'document' NO 365, we have this:
Q. Herr Brack, are you still going to maintain what you said here in direct examination, namely, that you tried to protect the Jews and to save the Jews from their terrible fate and that you were never a champion for the extermination program?

A. I should even like to maintain that misuse, terrible misuse, was made of my name. I see from this letter and from the date of this letter that all these negotiations were carried out at a time when I was far away from Berlin, when I was on sick leave.
And the fraudulent letter used in NO 365 dated Nov. 1941, is only 7 months from June 1942. Do we know how long Brack's sick leave was?

These letters are as phony as a three dollar bill. The alleged contents proves it.

- Hannover

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby onetruth » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 1:50 pm)

borjastick wrote:I ask one question only; How would Mr Brack know a figure of ten million jews from whom could be chosen 2-3 million who would be good for work?

On what basis, on what data, from what reports is a genuine claim made for 10 million jews which the German military would a) be able to identify and b) be able to physically apprehend?

To be honest this whole document smells of one week old haddock...


I have no idea how Brack reached the 10 million figure , Seems he did based his numbers on German assessment.

However i point to you that the main conclusion derived from those document , is not the issue of numbers. But the admission of a mass plan to exterminate ALL the Jewish people under Nazi Germany control . This is this issue which is needed to the address here on this thread.

As for the documents I posted , i will make an effort to find better copies of them online.

I have made an attempt to find how revisionists to explain what is written in this document . So far i have found one reference by Mattogno in his book " J. GRAF, T. KUES, C. MATTOGNO, SOBIBÓR "

Mattogno states :

" ]As for the deployment of euthanasia personnel at the “Aktion Reinhardt”camps, the following documentary evidence may be brought fourth. On 23 June 1942 the organizer of the euthanasia program, SSOberführerViktor Brack, sent a letter to Himmler "


In other words Mattogno himself brings this letter as evidence and has no issue with it's authenticity.


However it is also important to mention that Mattogno only equates two sentences from this letter as we see here :

" As for the deployment of euthanasia personnel at the “Aktion Reinhardt”camps, the following documentary evidence may be brought fourth. On 23 June 1942 the organizer of the euthanasia program, SSOberführerViktor Brack, sent a letter to Himmler in which he stated:

In accordance with my orders from Reichsleiter Bouhler I have long ago put at Brigadeführer Globocnik’s disposal part of my manpower
to aid him in carrying out his special mission. Upon his renewed request I have now transferred to him additional personnel
. ”

All the other content of the letter which is most discrimination is simply Ignored by Mattogno as if it never existed .

How he could do that is beyond me. I have just read a few comments on this strange blindness by Mattogno crucifying him as being dishonest on that point , but i would leave at that and let the readers here decide that facts for themselves.

It is clear however , that he simply uses the parts which suites him ( two lines exactly ) while ignoring all the rest of the document , making it a meaningless quatation. And though it is clear he is more than aware of the existence of this document he prefers not to address it head on and for what appears to be very good reasons I might add. ..



Here you can find the quote from Mattogno book , on page 271 , second paragraph :

http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/19-s.pdf


~

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby Hannover » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 3:40 pm)

onetruth:

It appears you are reading Mattogno selectively, wishfully.

Mattogno is only saying that men from the openly acknowledged euthanasia / T4 program were transferred to the Reinhardt camps, that's it. Mattogno in no way validates the rest of the absurd contents. Hence he leaves the doctored & absurd parts out.
Those problematic contents I have outlined and you have ignored them, why? See below for a review.

Mattogno said on p. 272:
Thus there is no doubt that euthanasia staff members were indeed
transferred to the Reinhardt camps. This fact is supposed to prove that these camps were extermination camps for Jews. These men are said to have built homicidal gas chambers there, similar in design to those allegedly used under the T4 program, and to have merely replaced the carbon monoxide cylinders by the exhaust gases from a Diesel engine.
From this point of view one cannot understand the fact that these men, whose specialty and training were to kill innocent people, were sent to the Russian front in the winter of 1942 in order to save the lives of wounded German soldiers.

Heinrich Gley, for example, was transferred from Sonnenstein to Minsk in January of 1942 together with male and female nurses from
other institutions. They were employed up to March and April 1942 “for the transportation of the wounded and of soldiers who were suffer-
ing from chillblains,” after which they were all sent back to their original stations.

Karl Schluch, too, was sent to the eastern front in the winter of 1941 and stayed there until some time in February or March
of 1942. He had to “help bring wounded soldiers back.”
The same applies to Werner Karl Dubois, who stayed at this job until April of 1942.

From the Holocaust perspective it cannot be explained why the euthanasia personnel were sent out to [allegedly] build gas chambers for
Aktion Reinhardt, but not Auschwitz.
onetruth, in the future please actually read the references you cite.

The points you have dodged:
Hannover wrote:Still no response to the absurd 10M Jews.

Some other revealing points:

- So what happened to the claimed "extermination policy"?
A plan to exterminate all the Jews in Europe, except they'd leave 2-3 million alive?

- Brack said in June:
About a year ago I reported to you that agents of mine had completed the experiments necessary for this purpose.
Himmler replied in August:
I am positively interested in seeing that sterilization by X-rays is tried out at least once in one camp in a series of experiments.
It makes no sense.
Brack supposedly said the experiments were completed in June, therefore Himmler wouldn't have asked that 'experiments' be conducted in August.

- Also "Top Secret" is not typed into a document, it was stamped. It isn't stamped in Himmler's 'response'.

- And, why sterilize them if they are to be 'exterminated' soon thereafter?

- There is a history of using Brack's name fraudulently as can be seen in relation to Nuremberg 'document' NO 365, we have this:
Q. Herr Brack, are you still going to maintain what you said here in direct examination, namely, that you tried to protect the Jews and to save the Jews from their terrible fate and that you were never a champion for the extermination program?

A. I should even like to maintain that misuse, terrible misuse, was made of my name. I see from this letter and from the date of this letter that all these negotiations were carried out at a time when I was far away from Berlin, when I was on sick leave.
And the fraudulent letter used in NO 365 dated Nov. 1941, is only 7 months from June 1942. Do we know how long Brack's sick leave was?

You said:
I have no idea how Brack reached the 10 million figure , Seems he did based his numbers on German assessment.
And what "assessment" is that exactly? Please show us this "assessment".

You said:
However i point to you that the main conclusion derived from those document , is not the issue of numbers. But the admission of a mass plan to exterminate ALL the Jewish people under Nazi Germany control . This is this issue which is needed to the address here on this thread.

No, you're not getting away with it.
The document is fraudulent because it's main, critical contents are fraudulent. The document's BS matters, though you wish otherwise.
If there was a 'planned extermination' then where are the necessary human remains of the alleged '6M Jews, 5M others', that's 11,000,000!
As I said previously, "A plan to exterminate all the Jews in Europe, except they'd leave 2-3 million alive?"

Your documents actually contradict the impossible narrative you wish they supported.

Address the challenges, no dodging at this forum

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby onetruth » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 4:25 pm)

~


Hannover wrote:Still no response to the absurd 10M Jews.



As i already said i don't know where Brack got his numbers , but seemingly this was his assessment. However it should be pointed out that the main issue here is the palan to exterminate all the Jews under Nazi occupation sparing only those that could be used for work. Not only that but that those allowed to live and work would be sterilized.

Hannover wrote:So what happened to the claimed "extermination policy"? A plan to exterminate all the Jews in Europe, except they'd leave 2-3 million alive?


This can not be concluded from the document. However what can be concluded is that Brack points out that the extermination is already in progress and that a special decision is needed to spare the lives of those that can work.



Hannover wrote:- Brack said in June:
About a year ago I reported to you that agents of mine had completed the experiments necessary for this purpose.
Himmler replied in August:
I am positively interested in seeing that sterilization by X-rays is tried out at least once in one camp in a series of experiments.
It makes no sense.
Brack supposedly said the experiments were completed in June, therefore Himmler wouldn't have asked that 'experiments' be conducted in August.


Obviously the sterilization by X-rays as suggested by Brack was not as easy to perform on a mass scale as he presumed - we are talking about millions. This can be understood from the dozen follow up letters that explained the difficulty for mass sterilization by X-rays sent to Himmler.

But not by Brack as he was replaced by his deputy Blankenburg .Blankenburg, Brack's deputy, replied to Himmler's letter and stated that Brack had been transferred to an SS division, but that he, Blankenburg, as Brack's permanent deputy would "immediately take the necessary measures and get in touch with the chiefs of the main offices of the concentration camps.

I would not post all the letters dealing with sterilization plan as this horrific issue deserves a separate thread but i would include the letter from one latter from Blankenburg as this letter does show the chain of events :


On the problems of mass sterilization by X-rays and the fact that Himmler asked Barck to perform the work :

" By order of Reichsleiter Bouhler I submit to you as an enclosure a work of Dr. Horst Schumann on the influence of X-rays on human genital glands.

Previously you have asked Oberführer Brack to perform this work, and you supported it by providing the adequate material in the concentration camp Auschwitz. point especially to the second part of this work, which shows that by those means castration of males is almost impossible or requires an effort which does not pay. As I have convinced myself, operative castration requires not more than 6 to 7 minutes, and therefore can be performed more reliably and quicker than castration by X-rays.

Soon I will be able to submit a continuation of this work to you. "


extract from the original document which can be found here :

Image


Hannover wrote:And, why sterilize them if they are to be 'exterminated' soon thereafter?


The document clearly states that those that can be put to work are not to be exterminated. That is actually the whole point of the letter. To spare those that can be used to work. However Brack also stresses out that measures must be taken that they can't propagate. This also coincide with a number of german documents that stress out that female and male prisoners must be held separately.

As he writes :

" This can, however, only be done if at the same time they are rendered incapable to propagate.


Hannover wrote: There is a history of using Brack's name fraudulently as can be seen in relation to Nuremberg 'document' NO 365, we have this:
Q. Herr Brack, are you still going to maintain what you said here in direct examination, namely, that you tried to protect the Jews and to save the Jews from their terrible fate and that you were never a champion for the extermination program?

A. I should even like to maintain that misuse, terrible misuse, was made of my name. I see from this letter and from the date of this letter that all these negotiations were carried out at a time when I was far away from Berlin, when I was on sick leave.And the fraudulent letter used in NO 365 dated Nov. 1941, is only 7 months from June 1942. Do we know how long Brack's sick leave was?


There is no " history " of Brack name being used fraudulently .

What we do have is that Brack tried to argue that he actually helped the jews ( while document no 205 clearly suggest that he was more than willing to see them all ) Document no 365 was not written by Brack but names him as participate in the extermination . So it is little surprise that he wishes to deny it,

Brack also testified that there was mass extermination though he was not involved .During the 1947 Doctors' Trial in Nuremberg, Brack testified from the witness stand that after 1941, when the extermination of Jewish population by Nazis was at full capacity, Heinrich Himmler ordered him to contact physicians from the Euthanasia Program to find a way to sterilize young, strong Jews capable of labour for use in the German war effort. The goal was to develop a method by which the victim could be sterilized without being aware of the process.

Are you also willing than to accept the rest of his testimony as truth ?

if so , i will make an effort to find his full testimony.


Hannover wrote:These letters are as phony as a three dollar bill.


Now we come to apart of this debate which is no longer a matter of facts but rests only on your opinion. To answer that truly one would have to be an expert on period documents , on signatures , ink , stamps, paper etc,

I do wish to point out that it is not so easy to forge a period document . All those factors would have to be taken into account. Add to that we are not talking about one letter but a series of letters containing answers and reply. If they where indeed fake they would fail on the matter of Himmler signature alone. There are experts that can easily deal with these matter otherwise it is your opinion alone , which is not a serious argument in my view.

I also put to you again that discussed document was used by your own revisionist , the one that is quoted here again and again . Not only did he found no problem with it but used it himself in his book.

" As for the deployment of euthanasia personnel at the “Aktion Reinhardt”camps, the following documentary evidence may be brought fourth. On 23 June 1942 the organizer of the euthanasia program, SSOberführerViktor Brack, sent a letter to Himmler in which he stated: . . .

you can find the quote from Mattogno book , on page 271 , second paragraph :

http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/19-s.pdf

~

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby onetruth » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 4:56 pm)

Hannover wrote:The points you have dodged:


Nothing was dodged , you are simply writing your answers before myn are moderator approved which takes some time . I have answered all previous points already and would now address your new one . No need to repost them again . I would now address your new points :



Hannover wrote:
It appears you are reading Mattogno selectively, wishfully.

Mattogno is only saying that men from the openly acknowledged euthanasia / T4 program were transferred to the Reinhardt camps, that's it. Mattogno in no way validates the rest of the absurd contents. Hence he leaves the doctored & absurd parts out.
Those problematic contents I have outlined and you have ignored them, why? See below for a review.

Mattogno said on p. 272:
Thus there is no doubt that euthanasia staff members were indeed
transferred to the Reinhardt camps. This fact is supposed to prove that these camps were extermination camps for Jews. These men are said to have built homicidal gas chambers there, similar in design to those allegedly used under the T4 program, and to have merely replaced the carbon monoxide cylinders by the exhaust gases from a Diesel engine.
From this point of view one cannot understand the fact that these men, whose specialty and training were to kill innocent people, were sent to the Russian front in the winter of 1942 in order to save the lives of wounded German soldiers.

Heinrich Gley, for example, was transferred from Sonnenstein to Minsk in January of 1942 together with male and female nurses from
other institutions. They were employed up to March and April 1942 “for the transportation of the wounded and of soldiers who were suffer-
ing from chillblains,” after which they were all sent back to their original stations.

Karl Schluch, too, was sent to the eastern front in the winter of 1941 and stayed there until some time in February or March
of 1942. He had to “help bring wounded soldiers back.”
The same applies to Werner Karl Dubois, who stayed at this job until April of 1942.

From the Holocaust perspective it cannot be explained why the euthanasia personnel were sent out to [allegedly] build gas chambers for
Aktion Reinhardt, but not Auschwitz.
onetruth, in the future please actually read the references you cite.


To me it seems more that Mattogno is selective in his reading and using this document.

After all the whole document was before him when he used it to stress his point. If he thought the document was not trust worthy than he should have not used it himself AT ALL . The reason that he did use it is that he had no issue with its authenticity.

Sorry but you cant just use to two lines of a document and say that the rest of the document is forgery , this does not make any sense at all. The document should be expected as a whole or totally rejected. And as we see Mattogno does in fact accepts this document and uses it.

It would not be so astonishing had in fact this document not been so cardinal and specific in showing the intention to mass extermination of the Jews. The fact that Mattogno has know of its existence , decided to used it , but ignored the main issue of this letter does raises question about his integrity.

But Mattogno's integrity is not the subject of the thread but the letter writen by Victor Brack no 205 . I suggest we concentrate on what this letter actually says.

I only mentioned Mattogno to point out that he in fact used part of the letter in his book , had no issues with it's authenticity and in fact states that :

" As for the deployment of euthanasia personnel at the “Aktion Reinhardt”camps, the following documentary evidence may be brought fourth "

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby Hannover » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 8:44 pm)

onetruth:

From our guidelines:
No 'dodging'. When questioned or challenged on claims, or assertions you make in a thread you must respond directly / specifically by providing the information requested in the challenge or you must leave the topic.

Yet again, you have no proof for your impossible "extermination" and engage in constant dodging.

- I asked you how specifically was your 'planned extermination' carried out? You dodged.
- You have been challenged on how the 'gas chambers' worked, but you dodged.
- You have been challenged to show us the claimed 'enormous mass graves', but you dodged.

- Your 'document' is obviously bogus since it talks of 10M Jews which were never under German control and you cannot provide a source for. The bogus document falls on that blunder alone. Again you dodged that fact.

- How can an 'extermination policy' be "already in progress" when there is no proof for such an 'extermination policy to begin with? Talk about 'garbage in, garbage out', that is it.

- I see you actually dodged the alleged 'Himmler follow-up letter' which refutes the alleged Brack letter to him. All you could say was:
Obviously the sterilization by X-rays as suggested by Brack was not as easy to perform on a mass scale as he presumed - we are talking about millions. This can be understood from the dozen follow up letters that explained the difficulty for mass sterilization by X-rays sent to Himmler.
- Which does not answer the question.
- What "millions" are you talking about. No dodging.
- Give us proof that these 2-3M were sterilized with X-rays. No dodging.

-Please show us all the originals of your claimed "dozen follow up letters". No dodging.

What we're talking about here is the German euthanasia program. See here, one truth, you did not do so well:
'The Evil Euthanasia Program'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8421

- You said:
There is no " history " of Brack name being used fraudulently .

Yes there is, I showed it to you.
Again:
Q. Herr Brack, are you still going to maintain what you said here in direct examination, namely, that you tried to protect the Jews and to save the Jews from their terrible fate and that you were never a champion for the extermination program?

A. I should even like to maintain that misuse, terrible misuse, was made of my name. I see from this letter and from the date of this letter that all these negotiations were carried out at a time when I was far away from Berlin, when I was on sick leave.

[And the fraudulent letter used in NO 365 dated Nov. 1941, is only 7 months from June 1942. Do we know how long Brack's sick leave was?]


- As for Mattogno, you have utterly failed to prove he believes in the authenticity of any part of document in question that he doesn't mention. As I said, he's only going to reference the part that makes actual sense. No false arguments, one truth.

- You said:
I do wish to point out that it is not so easy to forge a period document . All those factors would have to be taken into account. Add to that we are not talking about one letter but a series of letters containing answers and reply. If they where indeed fake they would fail on the matter of Himmler signature alone. There are experts that can easily deal with these matter otherwise it is your opinion alone , which is not a serious argument in my view.
- No, it's quite easy:
a German typewriter, there were/are plenty, German stamps, there were plenty, blend in some real facts with propaganda, forge a signature, voila.
Just a few example of forgeries:
'Murderers Among Us: Movie documentary 'piece of evidence'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10386
and:
'The Franke-Gricksch "Resettlement Action Report"
Anatomy of a Fabrication"
By Brian A. Renk
http://codoh.com/library/document/2347/
and:
'phoney gas vans / J. McCarthy & 'holocaust' Hist. Proj.'
viewtopic.php?t=73
and;
'Not Guilty at Nuremberg'
http://www.cwporter.com/innocent.htm

- Do tell, what "experts" are talking you about? Zionists who profit from the scam?

- Hannover

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The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 9:05 pm)

Here's another copy of Viktor Brack's letter 23 June 1942 [NO 205]:

NMT File: http://www.profit-over-life.org/rolls_887/13/887x13x0112.jpg
Page 1: http://www.profit-over-life.org/rolls_887/13/887x13x0114.jpg
Page 2: http://www.profit-over-life.org/rolls_887/13/887x13x0115.jpg


This letter featured prominently in the Nuremberg Doctors trial. Brack's testimony starts here; he spent six days in the witness box and his testimony covers c.360 pages:
http://www.profit-over-life.org/rolls_887.php?roll=8&pageID=675&expand=no


Brack said this letter was genuine:

Today I can only repeat that I do not believe that this letter originated from me in the actual wording. I think that it had only been sent to me for my signature. I believe I can remember either that I drafted this letter roughly, or gave one of my collaborators the order to write it.

No matter how that may be, this letter represents essentially the intentions [Philipp] Bouhler and I had.



The following is from Brack's testimony; direct examination by his defence counsel:

V. BRACK: I had already given up all hope after that conversation with Himmler that the course of this fate [meaning: the "mass murder" of Jews by Globocnik] could be stopped in any way. But I had hoped that foreign political considerations might perhaps dissuade Hitler from carrying out these plans. But, if that was not the case the thought arose in me whether one shouldn't once more make the attempt to dissuade Hitler from these plans for purely practical reason, which we would. At that stage of the war the labor supply played a considerable part. In all countries labor was needed[,] forced labor began to be used because our own resources were no longer sufficient. Under these considerations one could perhaps persuade Hitler that it would be more expedient to use these Jews in labor rather than exterminate them. I told Bouhler at that time that in the case of these 8 to 10 million European Jews there must, I am sure be a great number of Jews who are capable for work. One must put it to Hitler that it was of immense importance to save this potential labor pool. Hitler's concern that Germany itself could be endangered for the future would have to be countered by telling him that the sterilization plan could be once more put into execution, because by using this plan of permanent sterilization the danger could be removed. If Hitler would entertain that thought we imagined that so much time would lapse that the war would come to an end in the meantime. This would mean really that not only these Jews capable to work but all other Jews would be spared. Even if this deception were noticed at the end, a long time would have lapsed in the mean time.

transcript p.7516:
http://www.profit-over-life.org/rolls_887.php?roll=8&pageID=778&expand=no




DR. FROESCHMANN [ V. Barck's defence counsel]: The prosecution his submitted the Document NO.205. During the opening statement at the beginning of this trial it designated this letter as a sub-human and depraved report, and they said that this was no sterilization to exterminate people suffering from hereditary diseases, but that here sterilization was used for criminal purposes.

You will have to admit that this assertion of the prosecution, can not be considered in view of this letter, to be without justification. I ask you now, in view of this enormous charge which was raised against you, to tell the Tribunal how you came to write this letter of 23 June 1942, and how you wanted to be understood. In this way, the Tribunal will be in a position to gain an objective picture of what happened and what was done.


V. BRACK: How I came to write this letter I already told you. It was as a result of this conversation with Bouhler.

How this letter was actually submitted to me in the interrogations I can't remember. I saw only the first two sentences, and also acknowledged my signature underneath it.

At that time of the date of this letter I was already with the army and when this letter was first shown to me I thought that this letter couldn't possibly have originated from me. In the meantime, however, I recalled more of the details.

Today I can only repeat that I do not believe that this letter originated from me in the actual wording. I think that it had only been sent to me for my signature. I believe I can remember either that I drafted this letter roughly, or gave one of my collaborators the order to write it. No matter how that may be, this letter represents essentially the intentions Bouhler and I had.

The significance of that letter is not in its beginning - is not in its introductory words. The significance of that letter is solely that mention is made of the possibility of the labor commitment of the Jews.

[... text of the letter omitted]


DR. FROESCHMANN: Witness, I ask you now to define your attitude toward that letter.


V. BRACK: I have already said that the significance of this letter is only the labor forces which are mentioned. I had nothing at all personally to do with the commitment of labor. It was a matter of complete indifference to me, and it would have been a matter of complete indifference to me whence Hitler or Himmler got their workers for their plans.

If I had a proposal to Himmler mentioning the capability of the Jews to work it was only based upon my wish to stop this mass murder at the last minute and try to point out the possibility of permanent sterilization, which was already mentioned in previous letter to Himmler.

The pretext which I used were old and I know that this method could really not work. I didn't concern myself with the manner any more, and no experiments had been carried through. The new thing in this suggestion is my reference to the maintenance of productive labor.

After not having spoken to Himmler since April 1942 I had to find some point of attack, and I did get this point of attack by my reference to the conversation between Globocnik and Bouhler regarding the detailing of T-4 personnel.

Himmler was hardly informed that Globocnik had taken Bouhler into his confidence about his extermination assignments. I had to explain that, and for this reason I made reference to the furnishing of personnel to Globocnik. If a special mission is mentioned as the purpose of this furnishing, I must say that under "special mission" I understood the large-scale work projects at Lublin, which I had visited. In this way I pointed out the manpower possibilities to Himmler.

I had to make some reference to when and how Globocnik told Bouhor of his plans and for this reason I constructed this introductory sentence as you already read it. I would like to emphasize, however, that the words "on this occasion" in this letter are not at all synonymous with the, words "in this connection". what it should mean is "in the course of this conversation", and that is exactly how I described it before.


pp. 7519-7522:
http://www.profit-over-life.org/rolls_887.php?roll=8&pageID=781&expand=no
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby Hannover » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 9:22 pm)

Right Rabbit, and Hoess "said" he gassed countless Jews.
At Nuremberg the Soviets "said" that Jews were steamed to death, it was "proven" in the Pohl Trial.
At Nuremberg it was "said" that Nazis made human soap.
Etc., etc.

Shall we discuss the post-war Show Trials?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: NO-205 document / Brack to Himmler June 23, 1942 / as posted by onetruth

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 1 year 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 10:34 pm)

Right Rabbit, and Hoess "confessed" to gassing countless Jews.
At Nuremberg the Soviets 'proved' that Jews were steamed to death, "proven" in the Pohl Trial.
In 1946 at Nuremberg it was a "proven fact" that Nazis made human soap.

Etc., etc.

- Hannover

Okay, but what's the relevance to Brack admitting the letter under discussion is genuine?


Two days before Brack stated that this letter is genuine, he had felt confident enough to complain in the witness box that his American interrogators had "deceived" him into making incorrect statements in a signed affidavit.

If Brack was being tortured or blackmailed by the Americans, it makes little sense for him to publicly complain that his torturers/blackmailers had tricked and pressured him into signing an affidavit containing out of context statements but then go on to confirm the authenticity of a letter you're arguing is fake.

V. Brack.png

transcript, p. 7425: http://www.profit-over-life.org/rolls_887.php?roll=8&pageID=687&expand=no



Shall we discuss the post-war Show Trials?

If your research has recently uncovered things not already widely known; sure, start a thread. I'll contribute if anything perks my interest.
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney


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