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When discussing the holocaust with an innocent or naive believer I usually start with the myth of the six million figure, stating that it's a mythical figure spouted over and over from the late 19th century until a fortunate coincidence of events, WW2, came along and gave them the chance to claim six million dead jews with no real chance of being argued with.
Usually the person I'm talking to, feeling the heat that they've been stung, counters by saying 'yeah but no but, it's all the same. Does it matter how many jews died, a few hundred or a few million it's still a holocaust, right?'
Yeah right it's all the same.
So I'm looking for a short and winning statement that will knock right back and make them realise that it does matter, truth is important and the facts don't fit the claims. except that when i do this my answer seems somewhat clumsy.
Any help gratefully received.
'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician
Ask him or her why the Allies never apologized for the [at least] 42 holocausts of 600 people perpetrated by Allied bombers in Dresden during WW2 (that for the state-sponsored very-belittled death toll of that event).
Ask him or her why David Ben-Gurion felt the need to state that "the massacre of millions of Jews in Europe" clearly demonstrated "the urgency of re-establishing in Eretz-Israel the Jewish State" when he proclaimed the independence of the state of Israel if 600 Jewish deaths were enough to do the job.
Ask him or her why he or she feels the need to try to conceal the fact that the 6-million figure of Jewish martyrs was already an old & worn Zionist recurrent propaganda gimmick when WW2 began. Why such an attempt if he or she has nothing to hide and if there's nothing suspicious in that Zionist propaganda leitmotiv?
Interestingly, I believe a claim of 600 victims would be harder to sell than 6,000,000. If there were 600 someone would try to create a list of names with their sex, and age. Someone would also ask about the date, place and cause of death.
To my knowledge, it is not possible to give the name, age, place, and cause of death of even six individuals that were intentionally killed because they were Jewish.
But remember what is asserted. That there was a state-sponsored program to kill (all the) Jews using gas chambers. And then usually the 6 Million figure is inserted, as an attempt to make the whole thing more monstrous. Would the Holocaust sell as well, if there was a claim being made 600 Jews were gassed or something? You'd still hear whining, but I seriously doubt that the narrative would ever got that momentum no matter how hard its proponents pushed. So apparently for the purpose of Holocaust proponents the 6 million figure matters quite a bit. And that explains persecution of "Holocaust minimizers". And it's interesting that we're talking "state sponsored". Naturally that would relate to the state's monopoly on violence. But this is somehow not an issue for Holocaust hustlers. Their issues are "Antisemitism", "bigotry", "intolerance" which can be seen as popular sentiments to a group of people by, and this is important, ordinary people who are not the state, but themselves the governed.
borjastick wrote:I need some help in order to counter, efficiently, the very often heard response by Holocaust believers about the death toll from the claimed holocaust 'it doesn't matter whether it's 600 or six million it's all the same'.
No problem, the issue is not 6,000,000 or 600, the issue is 6,000,000 or zero.
Following 'Introduction to the Holohoax' on YouTube ... I would argue thusly ...
The holocaust is a preposterous hoax that is unsupported by any physical evidence. It is made up of literally millions of lies, but it all rests on one 'big lie'.
So, what is the holocaust hoax, or holohoax, and what is the big lie?
It is well known that the Nazis put the Jews in camps, just as the US put the Japanese in camps, so that is no hoax.
The hoax has three main components -
1. The Nazis planned to exterminate the Jews.
2. The Nazis built gas chambers to exterminate the Jews and disguised them as shower rooms.
3. The Nazis killed six million Jews.
Each component of the hoax is categorically false and completely without evidence.
There was no Nazi plan to exterminate the Jews or anyone else, and no evidence of one has ever been found.
The gas chambers disguised as shower rooms are pure phantasmagoria, and there is not a shred of physical evidence for them.
The number of Jews killed in the camps for being Jews is zero, and it is well documented that the Nazis aggressively investigated any crime in the camps.
That is the hoax, and the reality
The big lie is the photos and film footage that are shown of Jewish prisoners who had been gassed by the Nazis. The truth is that all the photos and film were taken after the war by British and US soldiers, and showed prisoners of all nationalities and religions who had died of typhus at the very last weeks of the war, primarily at Belsen where 35,000 died, 10,000 after the camp had been liberated by the British. Further it is well documented that the Nazis had done everything in their power to combat the epidemic.
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