Miraculous

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Hektor
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Re: Miraculous

Postby Hektor » 2 years 5 months ago (Mon May 29, 2017 5:15 pm)

Tommo wrote:Just had the Einsatzgruppen thing thrown at me with this...
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ezg6-mass-graves/
According to Denial on Trial, mass graves have been found everywhere, and Rudolf has been shown up countless times.
How to respond, I dunno?
I haven't SEEN any evidence for mass graves, only told that they are there. And not told the context of what these ones were either.
Apparently they correspond with the Ops Reports too.


Be advised that we don't "deny" the existence of mass graves. But what exactly do they proof and does the content of the graves coincide with claims being made?

I watched recently a copy of the TV-movie "Nuremberg" (2000) and there was the testimony of a "Friedrich Graebe" mentioned. Not sure how accurate the movie portrayal was and I noticed various "artistic license" in action in the movie. But I think that movie should perhaps be discussed on its own. Anyway here is the Graebe testimony:
My foreman and I went directly to the pits. Nobody bothered us. Now I heard rifle shots in quick succession from behind one of the earth mounds. The people who had got off the trucks - men, women and children of all ages - had to undress upon the order of an SS man who carried a riding or dog whip. They had to put down their clothes in fixed places, sorted according to shoes, top clothing and undergarments. I saw heaps of shoes of about 800 to 1000 pairs, great piles of under-linen and clothing. Without screaming or weeping these people undressed, stood around in family groups, kissed each other, said farewells, and waited for a sign from another SS man, who stood near the pit, also with a whip in his hand. During the fifteen minutes I stood near, I heard no complaint or plea for mercy. I watched a family of about eight persons, a man and a woman both of about fifty, with their children of about twenty to twenty-four, and two grown-up daughters about twenty-eight or twenty-nine. An old woman with snow white hair was holding a one-year-old child in her arms and singing to it and tickling it. The child was cooing with delight. The parents were looking on with tears in their eyes. The father was holding the hand of a boy about ten years old and speaking to him softly; the boy was fighting his tears. The father pointed to the sky, stroked his head and seemed to explain something to him. At that moment the SS man at the pit started shouting something to his comrade. The latter counted off about twenty persons and instructed them to go behind the earth mound. Among them was the family I have just mentioned. I well remember a girl, slim with black hair, who, as she passed me, pointed to herself and said, "twenty-three years old." I walked around the mound and found myself confronted by a tremendous grave. People were closely wedged together and lying on top of each other so that only their heads were visible. Nearly all had blood running over their shoulders from their heads. Some of the people shot were still moving. Some were lifting their arms and turning their heads to show that they were still alive. The pit was nearly two-thirds full. I estimated that it already contained about a thousand people. I looked for the man who did the shooting. He was an SS man, who sat at the edge of the narrow end of the pit, his feet dangling into the pit. He had a tommy-gun on his knees and was smoking a cigarette. The people, completely naked, went down some steps which were cut in the clay wall of the pit and clambered over the heads of the people lying there to the place to which the SS man directed them. They lay down in front of the dead or wounded people; some caressed those who were still alive and spoke to them in a low voice. Then I heard a series of shots. I looked into the pit and saw that the bodies were twitching or the heads lying already motionless on top of the bodies that lay beneath them. Blood was running from their necks. The next batch was approaching already. They went down into the pit, lined themselves up against the previous victims and were shot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_Friedrich_Graebe


Full name is Hermann Friedrich Gräbe (1900-1986) - Interestingly he has been accused of perjury at subsequent trials. Now I wonder was there any forensic investigation at the places where Graebe claims to has witnessed the shootings?
Last edited by Hektor on Mon May 29, 2017 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dresden
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Re: Miraculous

Postby Dresden » 2 years 5 months ago (Mon May 29, 2017 5:21 pm)

cold beer wrote:Does anyone know who the top 'officials' of the NKVD were during the era when this mass murder at Kiev took place in the 1930's?
They never name the perpetrators in these news reports it always Stalin that the perpetrators are hidden behind.


The top (((officials))) of the NKVD are never named.
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

Hegwood
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Re: Miraculous

Postby Hegwood » 2 years 5 months ago (Mon May 29, 2017 6:00 pm)

Hector wrote:

Be advised that we don't "deny" the existence of mass graves. But what exactly do they proof and does the content of the graves coincide with claims being made?


You're "we" doesn't include me. I see no reason to believe there exists a single mass grave anywhere in eastern Europe that contains Jewish men, women, and children that were executed by Germans simply because they were Jewish. There should be a number of mass graves that contain the remains of adult partisan fighters, many or most of which may have been Jewish but even these seem to be fewer than would be expected given the struggle that was going on.

I certainly am not going to change my opinion on the basis of some movie script.

Hegwood

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Re: Miraculous

Postby Kingfisher » 2 years 5 months ago (Tue May 30, 2017 3:23 pm)

Dresden wrote:
cold beer wrote:Does anyone know who the top 'officials' of the NKVD were during the era when this mass murder at Kiev took place in the 1930's?
They never name the perpetrators in these news reports it always Stalin that the perpetrators are hidden behind.


The top (((officials))) of the NKVD are never named.

Yagoda, Yeshiva and Beria. Details in Wikipedia or can be Googled.

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Re: Miraculous

Postby Hegwood » 2 years 5 months ago (Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:11 pm)

In my original post I wrote:

It was a miracle that roving squads of Nazi SS troops were able to round up and murder 1,300,000 Jews, mostly women and children, all over Eastern Europe, bury them in mass graves in populated areas and have those graves completely disappear. No trace of them has ever been found.


Maybe I was mistaken, Perhaps It is not a miracle but another supernatural phenomenon at work here. One akin to the Catholic church's teaching of "Transubstantiation". These graves exist. They cannot be located because they do not have a physical appearance. Although there never have been human remains in these graves nor, in most cases, has the ground ever been disturbed by digging a pit, they have the essence of real mass graves,

All you have to do is believe!!

Hegwood


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