Simplest problems often the most obvious

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Tommo
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Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby Tommo » 2 years 5 months ago (Wed May 31, 2017 9:32 am)

I would like to hear the Jew's or their allied defenders answer these specific simple questions...

Why starve them to death slowly?
Why transport them to camps en masse by trains in order to then employ the horrendously inefficient, time/resource consuming and technically complicated method of gassing them?

Rather than just shooting them.
Rather than just killing them where they found them.

I've heard a couple of outrageous answers.

Such as there was a "bullet" shortage LOL. Yeah a scrap of metal out of the question for the German economy. But tonnes of fuel, gas, mechanical and transport considerations, facilities, logistics etc- no worries.

Such as "to make it easier on the German psyche". Except the Einsatz were alleged to be doing just that. Except watching someone starve to death is a little bit more unsettling. Except removing hundreds of jews from a chamber to burn them is a little more unsettling.

Has any Jew EVER provided even a slightly rational answer? Any orthodox historian?
What are you angry about? By proving the gas chambers a lie, I just knocked off half the holocaust and SAVED 3 million Jew's for you!

I just saved more Jew's than Oskar Schindler allegedly ever did! :lol:

Breker
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Re: Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby Breker » 2 years 5 months ago (Wed May 31, 2017 1:31 pm)

One of the simplest and most obvious problems for this fake history is:
If Jews are so sure that millions of Jews were murdered, then why do they ask such dumb questions like "what happened to them"?
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby gandalfssocks » 2 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:39 am)

If Jews are so sure

It seems some are not!!

NY rabbi: ‘Not even 1 million’ Jews killed in Holocaust

http://www.timesofisrael.com/ny-rabbi-not-even-1-million-jews-killed-in-holocaust/

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Re: Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby Tommo » 2 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:13 am)

gandalfssocks wrote:If Jews are so sure

It seems some are not!!

NY rabbi: ‘Not even 1 million’ Jews killed in Holocaust

http://www.timesofisrael.com/ny-rabbi-not-even-1-million-jews-killed-in-holocaust/


Your comment is misleading. He's challenging whether they were Jewish- which might affront ordinary Jew's and Zionists, but makes little difference to the big picture.

He specifically mentions that 6 million died, merely stating that a million or less were Jewish.

He's right in a limited ironic sense because by my reasoning less than 400,000 total people died under custody of which only a fraction were Jewish (in fact I'd like to know what fraction actually). Not including Einsatz executions which I suspect are "heavily" inflated also and of a non-genocidal nature.
What are you angry about? By proving the gas chambers a lie, I just knocked off half the holocaust and SAVED 3 million Jew's for you!

I just saved more Jew's than Oskar Schindler allegedly ever did! :lol:

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Re: Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby Shade-Knight » 2 years 5 months ago (Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:28 am)

Tommo wrote:I would like to hear the Jew's or their allied defenders answer these specific simple questions...

Why starve them to death slowly?
Why transport them to camps en masse by trains in order to then employ the horrendously inefficient, time/resource consuming and technically complicated method of gassing them?

Rather than just shooting them.
Rather than just killing them where they found them.

I've heard a couple of outrageous answers.

Such as there was a "bullet" shortage LOL. Yeah a scrap of metal out of the question for the German economy. But tonnes of fuel, gas, mechanical and transport considerations, facilities, logistics etc- no worries.

Such as "to make it easier on the German psyche". Except the Einsatz were alleged to be doing just that. Except watching someone starve to death is a little bit more unsettling. Except removing hundreds of jews from a chamber to burn them is a little more unsettling.

Has any Jew EVER provided even a slightly rational answer? Any orthodox historian?


I will attempt to answer this for you, even though I don't believe in the narrative myself. Based primarily on what they've been subtly suggesting, there is no rational answer. There are only fantastical answers that are required to further the perception that Adolf Hitler, the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei and Germans altogether were the very embodiment of everything that is evil. As such, over a few decades there have been a lot of fantasies popping up, most of which outright disappear into obscurity. There is also no unified answer beyond the one I have stated.

I mean, if you observe them carefully from the side without pressing against them with facts and evidence, they will basically unconsciously confirm that it's simply depicted as such for political and economical reasons - to smash nationalists with the Holocaust belt and to get more money for themselves without having to develop an actual fantasy.
It's better to act from the sidelines than to not act at all.

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Re: Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby Tommo » 2 years 5 months ago (Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:11 pm)

Shade-Knight wrote:
Tommo wrote:I would like to hear the Jew's or their allied defenders answer these specific simple questions...

Why starve them to death slowly?
Why transport them to camps en masse by trains in order to then employ the horrendously inefficient, time/resource consuming and technically complicated method of gassing them?

Rather than just shooting them.
Rather than just killing them where they found them.

I've heard a couple of outrageous answers.

Such as there was a "bullet" shortage LOL. Yeah a scrap of metal out of the question for the German economy. But tonnes of fuel, gas, mechanical and transport considerations, facilities, logistics etc- no worries.

Such as "to make it easier on the German psyche". Except the Einsatz were alleged to be doing just that. Except watching someone starve to death is a little bit more unsettling. Except removing hundreds of jews from a chamber to burn them is a little more unsettling.

Has any Jew EVER provided even a slightly rational answer? Any orthodox historian?


I will attempt to answer this for you, even though I don't believe in the narrative myself. Based primarily on what they've been subtly suggesting, there is no rational answer. There are only fantastical answers that are required to further the perception that Adolf Hitler, the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei and Germans altogether were the very embodiment of everything that is evil. As such, over a few decades there have been a lot of fantasies popping up, most of which outright disappear into obscurity. There is also no unified answer beyond the one I have stated.

I mean, if you observe them carefully from the side without pressing against them with facts and evidence, they will basically unconsciously confirm that it's simply depicted as such for political and economical reasons - to smash nationalists with the Holocaust belt and to get more money for themselves without having to develop an actual fantasy.


Really?

And over a billion people believe in this with that utterly ridiculous story of inherent German evil.

We're supposed to believe that the then recognised most educated and disciplined people in the world, with a peaceful history, were "mind controlled" by the Nazi party to do not only evil, but were so STUPID as to pursue a horrifically inefficient methdo to do so?

NOT believable.
That in itself is utterly amazing!
What are you angry about? By proving the gas chambers a lie, I just knocked off half the holocaust and SAVED 3 million Jew's for you!

I just saved more Jew's than Oskar Schindler allegedly ever did! :lol:

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Re: Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby borjastick » 2 years 5 months ago (Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:48 am)

It's not the 'people' we are talking about but the military who are obliged to follow orders. The argument is not about whether the military would have done it but if they could, did and were able to do it given the equipment available as claimed. IOWs the gas chambers as claimed, the method of body disposal etc. The evidence isn't there, never was, because it didn't happen.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby Tommo » 2 years 5 months ago (Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:31 am)

borjastick wrote:It's not the 'people' we are talking about but the military who are obliged to follow orders. The argument is not about whether the military would have done it but if they could, did and were able to do it given the equipment available as claimed. IOWs the gas chambers as claimed, the method of body disposal etc. The evidence isn't there, never was, because it didn't happen.


Yes yes, but even notwithstanding the people in questions culture of efficiency...

I can't envision ANY intelligent person, military or the one giving them orders or concocting such a scheme, coming up with the idea that it would be a great idea to employ Europe-wide transit and gas chambers as a killing method, rather than localised killings with bullets.

That in itself is a killer argument, not that it isn't important to debunk every minutia of detail of course.

The answer from the get go is simply that they would never have done it, let alone couldn't have.
What are you angry about? By proving the gas chambers a lie, I just knocked off half the holocaust and SAVED 3 million Jew's for you!

I just saved more Jew's than Oskar Schindler allegedly ever did! :lol:

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Re: Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby Hegwood » 2 years 5 months ago (Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:35 am)

Tommo

In trying to show that someone did not do something, just saying he would not do something so stupid or that it is completely out of character makes a good supporting argument but it won't stand alone. After all, sometimes smart people do dumb things and horrible crimes have been committed by upstanding honorable people. I'm sure even pacific groups such as Quakers and Amish produce an occasional murderer.

The true character of the German people does indeed make the holocaust story very improbable but the physical impossibility of the claimed events make it just that, impossible. It did not happen!

Hegwood

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Re: Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby Tommo » 2 years 5 months ago (Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:04 am)

Hegwood wrote:Tommo

In trying to show that someone did not do something, just saying he would not do something so stupid or that it is completely out of character makes a good supporting argument but it won't stand alone. After all, sometimes smart people do dumb things and horrible crimes have been committed by upstanding honorable people. I'm sure even pacific groups such as Quakers and Amish produce an occasional murderer.

The true character of the German people does indeed make the holocaust story very improbable but the physical impossibility of the claimed events make it just that, impossible. It did not happen!

Hegwood


Yes I'm not negating the whole picture, please don't think I am.

But I don't think even you are appreciating the gravity of this initial starting point.

It's not the "character" so much, it would take a collective stupidity beyond any reason.

Think of the board involved in this decision, think of the Economics ministers input here, and the armaments minister etc...

What they're saying, is that pretty much every single German involved in this decision never thought for a second about the logisitics, the cost, the technical feasibility, the manpower (leaving camp commanders in charge of homocide methods? example) and the contrast with rounding them up and shooting them within the city limits they were in?

All I am saying is that this alone SHOULD convince any "rational" person, not that it does. Obviously- it doesn't.
What are you angry about? By proving the gas chambers a lie, I just knocked off half the holocaust and SAVED 3 million Jew's for you!

I just saved more Jew's than Oskar Schindler allegedly ever did! :lol:

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Re: Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby Tommo » 2 years 5 months ago (Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:06 am)

Tommo wrote:
Hegwood wrote:Tommo

In trying to show that someone did not do something, just saying he would not do something so stupid or that it is completely out of character makes a good supporting argument but it won't stand alone. After all, sometimes smart people do dumb things and horrible crimes have been committed by upstanding honorable people. I'm sure even pacific groups such as Quakers and Amish produce an occasional murderer.

The true character of the German people does indeed make the holocaust story very improbable but the physical impossibility of the claimed events make it just that, impossible. It did not happen!

Hegwood


Yes I'm not negating the whole picture, please don't think I am.

But I don't think even you are appreciating the gravity of this initial starting point.

It's not the "character" so much, it would take a collective stupidity beyond any reason.

Think of the board involved in this decision, think of the Economics ministers input here, and the armaments minister etc...

What they're saying, is that pretty much every single German involved in this decision never thought for a second about the logisitics, the cost, the technical feasibility, the manpower (leaving camp commanders in charge of homocide methods? example) and the contrast with rounding them up and shooting them within the city limits they were in?

All I am saying is that this alone SHOULD convince any "rational" person, not that it does. Obviously- it doesn't.

It would take the collective retardation of the entire brass involved without ever raising the issue even once.
What are you angry about? By proving the gas chambers a lie, I just knocked off half the holocaust and SAVED 3 million Jew's for you!

I just saved more Jew's than Oskar Schindler allegedly ever did! :lol:

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Re: Simplest problems often the most obvious

Postby Hektor » 2 years 5 months ago (Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:38 pm)

Tommo wrote:I would like to hear the Jew's or their allied defenders answer these specific simple questions...

Why starve them to death slowly?
Why transport them to camps en masse by trains in order to then employ the horrendously inefficient, time/resource consuming and technically complicated method of gassing them?

Rather than just shooting them.
Rather than just killing them where they found them.

I've heard a couple of outrageous answers.
....

Has any Jew EVER provided even a slightly rational answer? Any orthodox historian?


The Americans starved a large number of Germans to death in 1944-1945. So it's not completely absurd. The starved/starving prisoners in the Western camps is still used as shock evidence to persuade people of the Holocaust, but I'd guess when cornered most historians will admit that this starvation in German concentration camps was the result of Germany's collapse in 1945 and not due to a deliberate policy to kill the prisoners themselves. The Holocaust (extermination with gassing as main weapon) is said to have taken place in camps like Auschwitz and eastward.

As for the conundrum of with shipping Jews across the whole of Europe by train, while freight space is in short supply, I point this out at times. And people agree that it's indeed a bit odd. If the Axis/Germans really planned on killing all the Jews they'd concentrated them at points near places from where they'd gathered them and then killed them on the spot. Of course people that are really Holocaust nuts will have a trump card they tend to use, when they're cornered:"The Nazis were insane, hence it doesn't surprise if they did crazy things."



Try to confront historians with the "Standort- und Kommandanturbefehle" - They can't be harmonized with the extermination by gassing narrative. But they still find "criminal traces" therein, like that no warning agent was used in the Zyklon B, mind you this is about Zyklon B obviously used to delouse rooms or clothing.

Review them here. https://archive.org/details/StandortUnd ... 940Bis1945
Knowledge of German is a requirement though, also for any historian you confront.


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