Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

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Sannhet
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Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:49 am)

Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip'
27 June 2017 [One of Top-Ten Most-Recommended Stories on BBC World News Feed for 27 June] [Link]

German Muslim schoolgirls who went on a visit to Holocaust memorials in eastern Poland say they were racially abused by locals during their trip. The girls, from a Berlin school, spoke on Deutschlandfunk radio about their experience. Four were wearing Muslim headscarves -- and they suffered abuse.

One girl said a man had spat on her in the street in Lublin, as police stood by grinning and did nothing. Another girl said she was expelled from a shop for speaking Persian. She had been speaking to her brother on the phone.

"They came up to me and said 'can you leave, you're disturbing the people here'. And I thought: Why? Just because I'm speaking Persian and I'm a foreigner? Yes," she told the radio station.

Spitting and knives

A third girl said that in Lodz "a woman just came up to me and shouted 'get out!' and threw her drink over me and my camera - she said 'get lost!'"

In Lublin, the girls said that a market stallholder had refused to sell them water because they were foreigners. On another occasion, one girl was reportedly threatened with a knife.

They were among a group of 20 children - mostly Muslims - from the Theodor Heuss Community School in Berlin-Moabit.

The Holocaust is a sensitive topic for many Muslims because Jewish survivors settled in Palestine, on land which later became the state of Israel.

The Poland trip was arranged by a German Holocaust memorial body, the House of the Wannsee Conference.

Comment: I see several things in this story:

(1) "Always Keep the Holocaust in the News." A few people were rude to some girls somewhere, perhaps because of ethnic or linguistic or religious or some other vague prejudice. Right. This is very soft 'news' (similar stories could probably be written daily, 10,000x over, across the world, but would never get much coverage). The BBC considers this one our planet's top ten news stories of the day? Only because of the Holocaust connection.

(2) There is an element of sacrilege to this story. Revisionists can sometimes bog down on technical details, but the fact is that the Holocaust Story as it exists today is religious in nature. This is a story of sacrilege, people offending the sanctity of holy sites. Though the boorish Poles who offended these Muslim girls were just in towns in 'eastern Poland,' the trip was still a Holocaust Trip and thus a pilgrimage.

(3) The perpetrators of the sacrilege are not the Muslims, at least not as the story is here presented, but the local (allegedly) boorish Poles.

Similar stories might be imagined to have circulated in a more Christian era of the West, in which local Semites/Levantines boorishly offending pilgrims to the sacred sites like Calvary and Jesus' Tomb.

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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby Rmbrmb21 » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:09 pm)

Who are we supposed to bow to when conflicts arise like this in Europe? Will we have to scrape to muslim invaders, or the Jewish masters?

I've always been confused on how they plan to handle these things. I'm assuming they will blame the Poles because Poles aren't Jews persay, but muslim-Jewish conflicts are bound to arise sooner or later in the west, and not just Syria and Israel.

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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:22 pm)

The story is still in the Top 10 in the BBC World News Top Stories, about 14 hours after its original publishing.

The part of the story that I did not quote includes discussion of the Holocaust and the purported 'Missing Million.' Towards the end of the story, we see this:
Poland's nationalist government refuses to take in Muslim refugees, arguing that they would struggle to integrate in Poland's Catholic-majority society.
Last edited by Sannhet on Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:30 pm)

Rmbrmb21 wrote:muslim-Jewish conflicts are bound to arise sooner or later in the west
I've always been confused on how they plan to handle these things.

If this news story is instructive, such conflicts will not be taken seriously, and instead both used to reinforce each other. "Muslims are innocent!" "Jews are holy, and we are blessed through them! The Sacred Six Million is the central event of history!" "European bigots sind unser Unglück!"

However, the Holocaust remains central to Western world order, so will have a trump card over Muslims claiming defamation/blasphemy. Remember the anti-Danish cartoon riots? Much of the European press stood by the cartoonist despite widespread claims of blasphemy.

You may have seen this cartoon from a little newspaper called the Muslim Observer (USA), in 2006:
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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby hermod » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:01 pm)

If these girls were abused as Muslims, they were not racially abused as claimed because there are Muslims of all races.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 4 months ago (Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:14 am)

Update: 16 hours after the story's publication, the story sits at the Number-10 spot on my BBC World News Feed. It was originally about 6 or 7. It will presumably drop off the list soon.

How many people across the world have browsed or otherwise been exposed to BBC World News in these 16 hours? Of that, some substantial fraction will have at least seen this headline. This is huge exposure for a very minor and contrived story, the likes of which anybody could allege anytime, anywhere, in any multi-ethnic, multi-religious, etc. environment.

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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby borjastick » 2 years 4 months ago (Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:32 am)

Sannhet a couple of points. Firstly this isn't really holocaust news except that the BBC chose to pick it up and flesh out the story on the basis that these girls were in Eastern Poland to go to Auschwitz. They could have been there on any other tourist trip. The BBC as a news organisation is now exposed as a biased and un-trusted source. Second I posted the other day how the England Under 21 footie team were, as usual, wheeled around Auschwitz and given the full nine yards of indoctrination. Great when you really want the heads of your players in the right frame of mind to play a world championship match.

On a more general note Poland is still very racist and understandably, after all the muslim attacks in Europe recently, the locals would feel uncomfortable with Muslims in their back yard.
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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby Hektor » 2 years 4 months ago (Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:09 am)

hermod wrote:If these girls were abused as Muslims, they were not racially abused as claimed because there are Muslims of all races.

Guess what the leftist reply is to your argument!

"Your response shows that you still stick to race as biological construct and proves that you are a racist."

I know that sounds insane, but I'm not kidding. I observed this in several discussions on the net and those making the arguments were left-wing "main stream" academics in some social sciences.

With that kind of twisted logic it should be no surprise that the Holocaust narrative is still prevalent in those circles.

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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby hermod » 2 years 4 months ago (Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:26 am)

Hektor wrote:
hermod wrote:If these girls were abused as Muslims, they were not racially abused as claimed because there are Muslims of all races.

Guess what the leftist reply is to your argument!

"Your response shows that you still stick to race as biological construct and proves that you are a racist."

I know that sounds insane, but I'm not kidding. I observed this in several discussions on the net and those making the arguments were left-wing "main stream" academics in some social sciences.

With that kind of twisted logic it should be no surprise that the Holocaust narrative is still prevalent in those circles.


Not as a biological construct. As a biological reality.

And I couldn't care less about the opinion of self-deluded people dreaming themselves as scientists because of the erroneous term "social sciences."

The accurate word for such a thing is Islamophobia, not racism. Islam is a multiracial religion, as is Christianity.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby Lothario » 2 years 4 months ago (Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:22 pm)

hermod wrote:The accurate word for such a thing is Islamophobia, not racism. Islam is a multiracial religion, as is Christianity.


Islamophobia is a term like 'holocaust denial'. Its definition is unclear and it is used to muddy the waters. People use it to deflect criticism of ideas and make it seem like an attack on people.

A more simple objection to the term islamophobia is that a phobia is an 'irrational fear'. Fear for Islam is not irrational, just look what is written in the quran. And even if it was, why wouldn't I be allowed to be fearful?
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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby hermod » 2 years 4 months ago (Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:57 pm)

Lothario wrote:
hermod wrote:The accurate word for such a thing is Islamophobia, not racism. Islam is a multiracial religion, as is Christianity.


Islamophobia is a term like 'holocaust denial'. Its definition is unclear and it is used to muddy the waters. People use it to deflect criticism of ideas and make it seem like an attack on people.

A more simple objection to the term islamophobia is that a phobia is an 'irrational fear'. Fear for Islam is not irrational, just look what is written in the quran. And even if it was, why wouldn't I be allowed to be fearful?


Lexical nitpicking. Could be argued about all words with "phobia" in them.

Any suggestion of a name for hostility towards Islam? Simply "anti-Islamic hostility" or "anti-Islamic feelings" maybe?
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby Lothario » 2 years 4 months ago (Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:26 am)

hermod wrote:
Lothario wrote:
hermod wrote:The accurate word for such a thing is Islamophobia, not racism. Islam is a multiracial religion, as is Christianity.


Islamophobia is a term like 'holocaust denial'. Its definition is unclear and it is used to muddy the waters. People use it to deflect criticism of ideas and make it seem like an attack on people.

A more simple objection to the term islamophobia is that a phobia is an 'irrational fear'. Fear for Islam is not irrational, just look what is written in the quran. And even if it was, why wouldn't I be allowed to be fearful?


Lexical nitpicking. Could be argued about all words with "phobia" in them.

Any suggestion of a name for hostility towards Islam? Simply "anti-Islamic hostility" or "anti-Islamic feelings" maybe?


You can't argue that about every word with phobia. But that was just a minor point. My main point is that this was abuse of people, not a religion. By confusing those, people try to ban criticism of Islam, just like they try to ban holocaust revisionism because it would be offensive to jews. So an attack on a set of ideas or beliefs is turned into an attack on real people with the goal to delegitmatize the justified criticism.

How I would call the abuse of these girls? Just what it is: anti-muslim hate. How I would call hostility towards islam? Blasphemy.
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Re: Muslim girls complain of Polish racism on Holocaust study trip

Postby Moderator » 2 years 4 months ago (Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:01 am)

We're teetering here. Let's stay within the topic of the OP, the guidelines.
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