Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

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Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 2 months ago (Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:03 am)

This is a rather amazing story of a kind of dissident from the inside of the Holocaust apparatus, a prominent academic and government adviser who has the ear of top leaders:
Germany’s Newest Intellectual Antihero
By CHRISTOPHER CALDWELLJULY 8, 2017

After the German historian Rolf Peter Sieferle took his own life last September at age 67, Süddeutsche Zeitung, the country’s progressive paper of record, called his erudition “breathtaking.” For three decades Mr. Sieferle had applied the old traditions of German social science to new preoccupations, from ecological sustainability to social capital. He was among the pioneers of German environmental history. He wrote on Marx, German conservatism around World War I and the end of Communism. He advised Angela Merkel’s government on climate change.

But last month, a posthumous collection of Mr. Sieferle’s observations on Germany’s political culture, “Finis Germania” (the title plays on a phrase meaning “the end of Germany”), hit No. 9 on the prestigious Nonfiction Book of the Month list — and a scandal erupted. Certain passages on Germany’s way of dealing with the Holocaust horrified reviewers. Die Zeit called it a book of “brazen obscenity.” The Berliner Zeitung wrote of Mr. Sieferle’s “intellectual decline.” Süddeutsche Zeitung retracted its earlier praise. The Nonfiction Book of the Month list was suspended until further notice.

The book-buying public reacted otherwise. As critical anger rose, so did sales. Soon the book was selling 250 copies an hour, according to its publisher, and ranked No. 1 on Amazon’s German best-seller list, a position it held for almost two weeks, until the publisher ran out of copies.

What exactly had Mr. Sieferle said? Was this a betrayal of his intellectual legacy, as critics claimed? A vindication of it, as his sales suggested? Or had he simply gone off the rails at a time when public opinion was doing the same?

A socialist in his youth like most German intellectuals of the 1968 generation, Mr. Sieferle was drifting out of sync with that tradition by the 1990s. He came increasingly to aim his sarcasm at naïve idealists. At the height of Germany’s refugee crisis two summers ago, he wrote, “A society that can no longer distinguish between itself and the forces that would dissolve it is living morally beyond its means.” The Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung described him as “embittered, humorless, ever more isolated.”

Mr. Sieferle, who had once placed his books with the aristocrats of German publishing (Suhrkamp, Propyläen, Fischer, Beck), became an outsider. “Finis Germania” was brought out by a small rightist press in the eastern German state of Saxony-Anhalt. Another posthumous book, “Das Migrationsproblem” (“The Migration Problem”), which asks whether mass migration is compatible with a built-out welfare state, was published in February by a press that works with the contrarian quarterly Tumult. That book, too, is selling like hot cakes, standing around No. 250 on the German Amazon list.

It is odd that “Finis Germania” was the book that took off. It is little more than a collection of notes on various subjects in the 1990s, some of the most controversial of which were previously published in more polished form.

On the other hand, “Finis Germaniae” (“the end of Germany”) is a familiar and resonant phrase. (Why Mr. Sieferle chose to drop the final “e” in his title has been much discussed.) The phrase captures a fear, or paranoia, about national decline that has been widespread in German history — and explains much about that history. Prosperous though Germany is, one can see reasons such fears might be reviving. Germany is senescent, with a median age of about 46. It is helping construct a European Union meant to supplant the German government in many of its traditional competencies. Germans appear to want to disappear. This, in fact, is the thesis that drives Mr. Sieferle’s passionate book on migration.

In “Finis Germania,” Mr. Sieferle rues that his own country is “tragic,” tangled up in history. He doesn’t just rue it, he resents it. “There are un-tragic peoples,” he writes, “whom history pearls off of like water from a well-polished boot.” He means the English and Americans, who have always tried to pass off their oligarchies as cradles of democracy.

After World War II, the Allied occupiers, as Mr. Sieferle sees it, saddled Germans with a false idea of their own history — the idea that there was something premodern about Germany, a fundamental difference between it and the West. That may describe Russia, but not Germany, and Germany’s modernity is painful for Westerners to face. “If Germany belonged to the most progressive, civilized, cultivated countries,” he writes, “then ‘Auschwitz’ means that, at any moment, the human ‘progress’ of modernity can go into reverse.”

That the Victors Write History, and may have done so in the 1940s (and on), too, is a reasonable observation, not a cause for alarm. That we are are still so shy about this, when it comes to the Germans, after nearly 75 years, is puzzling on its face. Understanding this dynamic really is, I think, the key to understanding today's entire Western order,

Mr. Sieferle is critical of Germany’s postwar culture of Holocaust memory, which he argues has taken on the traits of a religion. The country’s sins are held to be unique and absolute, beyond either redemption or comparison. “The First Commandment,” he writes, “is ‘Thou shalt have no Holocausts before me.’ ” Hitler, in retrospect, turns out to have done a paradoxical thing: He bound Germans and Jews together in a narrative for all time. In an otherwise relativistic and disenchanted world, Mr. Sieferle writes, Germans appear in this narrative as the absolute enemies of our common humanity, as a scapegoat people. The role is hereditary. There are Germans whose grandparents were not born when the war ended, yet they, too, must take on the role.

In this, Mr. Sieferle sees an “affinity” between Germans now and “the Jew as he was understood in the Christian past.” Specifically, Jews were cast as either indifferent to or responsible for the crucifixion. In the eyes of today’s world, German identity symbolizes a similar rejection of some kind of revelation. “In every city Christianity had built cathedrals to its murdered God,” Mr. Sieferle writes. “Today, the Jews, to whom God himself had promised eternity, build memorials throughout the world to their murdered coreligionists. Not only are the victims ascribed a moral superiority, the wrongdoers and their symbols are ascribed an eternal depravity.”

Mr. Sieferle’s is a complex argument. It is linked to his concern, in “Das Migrationsproblem,” with the challenges of mass migration. He believed that Germany’s self-demonization had left it unable to say anything but yes to a million or so migrants seeking entry to Europe in 2015 and that such a welcome was unsustainable. Whether he was right or wrong, this was a concern shared by many Germans, and not necessarily an idle expression of animus.

But wrested from its context, Mr. Sieferle’s argument can sound thoroughly offensive. The magazine Der Spiegel summed it up as “the Germans are the new Jews.” Critics have mostly denounced rather than engaged Mr. Sieferle’s views. It is worth noting that if the German culture of “Vergangenheitsbewältigung” (or “coming to terms with the past”) limits open discussion, that is because it is meant to. Many Germans, who are often sincerely frightened of themselves, are grateful it did.

Some are not. Rüdiger Safranski, a prominent historian of philosophy, defended Mr. Sieferle’s work as being in the poetic tradition of Heinrich Heine and Edward Young. The Tumult editor Frank Böckelmann predicted on his Facebook page that as Mr. Sieferle’s works come back into print, he will be acknowledged as “one of the great thinkers of our time.” That will depend on whether he is taken for a bigot or a courageous blasphemer.

Whatever becomes of Mr. Sieferle’s reputation, the scandal around him reveals certain unsuspected problems. When the German literary establishment unanimously denounced Mr. Sieferle’s work as an extremist tract, readers did not nod in agreement. They pulled out their wallets and said, “That must be the book for me.” This is a sign that distrust of authority in Germany has reached worrisome levels, possibly American ones.

Christopher Caldwell, a senior editor at The Weekly Standard, is at work on a book about the rise and fall of the post-1960s political order.

A version of this op-ed appears in print on July 9, 2017, on Page SR4 of the New York edition with the headline: "Germany’s Newest Intellectual Antihero."

The wikipedia articles for Herr Sieferle (German; English) and for his book that questions, challenges, and condemns the Holocaust System (a death cult)'s grip on Germany, Finis Germania, are both recent; a large majority of German edits are made in 2017 (following the posthumous publication of Finis Germania); the English entry has just been created following this New York Times article (above).
_________________________________

So Herr Sieferle was an opponent of the Holocaust System since the 1990s. I wrote a thread some weeks ago in which I proposed that deliverance for Germany/Europe/Western Mankind from this oppressive and stifling Holocaust stranglehold may well more likely come from the political Left than the Right, and gave some examples of such. Add Sieferle to the list, in the sense, anyway, that he was apparently on the left into the 1990s. That thread is here: "How much support is there in Germany for abolishing Holocaust Enforcement laws?" (https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=11161).

I'd be curious to see the originals of his work in German, not in the English re-telling by Mr. Caldwell, to see, reading between the lines as we have to, if we find instances of Sieferle implying he is 'in the know' re: the knockout Revisionist material on the gas chambers and etc.

Sieferle's conversion to anti-Holocaustism appears to line up with the early work of German Rudolf (1991 to 1994), I'd like to say not by coincidence.



A humble CODOH-Forum epitaph for this man:

Rolf Peter Sieferle
Born, August 5, 1949, Stuttgart
Died, September 17, 2016, Heidelberg
Opponent of Holocaust-Tyranny
Courageous Truth-Speaker

Rolf Peter Sieferle.jpg
Rolf Peter Sieferle.jpg (131.07 KiB) Viewed 2851 times

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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby Hektor » 2 years 2 months ago (Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:05 am)

I have yet to go through the texts and yes, the book itself. But it appears that Rolf Peter Sieferle isn't a "Holocaust Denier", but a critique of Holocaustianity that doesn't deal with the historicity or rather facticity of the Holocaust itself. Well publishing texts claiming that there is something seriously wrong with Holocaust historiography would gotten him fired and even jailed in Germany. He may however have had private opinions on the matter that are more elaborate, we still need to find out about.

Anyway, his non-conformist opinions were enough to cause a scandal.

As I wrote elsewhere there are quite some German academics that doubt the Holocaust narrative in private, but never would cast doubt on it in public. Knowing quite well that would bury them socially and professionally.

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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby hermod » 2 years 2 months ago (Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:39 am)

"Finis Germania " ... The conclusion of Wilhelm Marr, the father of the word "anti-Semitism," in his his book Der Sieg des Judenthums über das Germanenthum (The Victory of Judaism over Germany) 138 years ago (1879).

Marr concluded his book as follows: "It might be that Semitism and Germanism will enter a political-social peace. I just don't believe in such a peace. I only believe what I see: our political, social subjugation by you [Jews]. [...] In place of the passion of battle I have adopted a stoic resignation. [...] The Twilight of the gods has come upon us, you are the masters, we are the slaves. [...] Let us accept the inescapable, since we can't change it. Its name is: Finis Germaniae (Germany is over)."
[ http://www.kevinmacdonald.net/Marr-Text-English.pdf ]
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 2 months ago (Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:42 am)

hermod wrote:"Finis Germania " ... The conclusion of Wilhelm Marr, the father of the word "anti-Semitism," in his his book Der Sieg des Judenthums über das Germanenthum
[...]
Let us accept the inescapable, since we can't change it. Its name is: Finis Germaniae[/i] (Germany is over)."

Thanks for pointing this out.

Why do you think Sieferle titled his book "Finis Germania" and not "Finis Germaniae" (with a final 'e,' which is correct Latin)?

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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby hermod » 2 years 2 months ago (Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:11 am)

Sannhet wrote:Why do you think Sieferle titled his book "Finis Germania" and not "Finis Germaniae" (with a final 'e,' which is correct Latin)?


Latin grammar. Germania is the nominative case. And Germaniae is the genitive case.
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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 2 months ago (Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:49 am)

hermod wrote:Latin grammar. Germania is the nominative case. And Germaniae is the genitive case.

You state these as facts but I do not understand if you are implying an answer to my question or not.

Most mentions of this issue around the German web, that I find, have it that he simply used grammar incorrectly. They mock this. Grammatically correct, it should be "Finis Germaniae."

However, I also find this from a Tagesspiegel article on the book:

Ende Deutschland

Ende Der Titel "Finis Germania" 'könnte auf eine Genitiv-Schwäche hindeuten. Wenn Rolf Peter Sieferle das Ende Deutschlands meinte, hätte er gramatikalisch korrekt vom "Finis Germaniae" sprechen müssen. Mit diesen Worten kommentierte Reichskanzler Theobald von Bethmann Hollweg im Ersten Weltkrieg sarkastisch den Beginn des uneingeschränken U-Boot-Kriegs durch Deutschland, der seiner Meinung nach zum Kriegseintritt der USA und der Niederlage des Deutschen Reichs führen musste. Doch Sieferle war offenbar lateinfest. Der Historiker lehrte Neuere Geschichte an der Universität Mannheim und später in St. Gallen. Seine Formulierung, so wird im Netz orakelt, muss einen Hintersinn haben. "Finis Germania": Deutschland Ende. Meinte Sieferle vielleicht quasi-vokativisch "Schluss jetzt, Germania"? Oder "Das Höchste (ist) Deutschland"?

The End of Germany

[...] If Rolf Peter Sieferle had meant the End of Germany, he would have written it grammatically correctly as, "Finis Germaniae." With these words, Chancellor Bethmann Hollweg in the First World War sarcastically used this phrase when Germany began unlimited U-Boot operations, which, in his opinion, would lead to U.S. entry into the war and the defeat of the German Reich. But Dieferle was evidently very good at Latin. The historian taught new history at the University of Mannheim and later at St. Gallen. His forumlation, so has been speculated about online, must have a deeper meaning. "Finis Germania": Germany End. Did Sieferle perhaps mean, quasi-vocatively, "End This, Germania"? Or "The Highest (is) Germany"?

I would suggest a third possible pun, given that he is grappling with the monster of Holocaust Tyranny, to be on Theodore Kaufmann's Germany Must Perish. Too obscure?

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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 2 months ago (Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:49 am)

hermod wrote:Latin grammar. Germania is the nominative case. And Germaniae is the genitive case.

You state these as facts but I do not understand if you are implying an answer to my question or not.

Most mentions of this issue around the German web, that I find, have it that he simply used grammar incorrectly. They mock this. Grammatically correct, it should be "Finis Germaniae."

However, I also find this from a Tagesspiegel article on the book:

Ende Deutschland

Ende Der Titel "Finis Germania" 'könnte auf eine Genitiv-Schwäche hindeuten. Wenn Rolf Peter Sieferle das Ende Deutschlands meinte, hätte er gramatikalisch korrekt vom "Finis Germaniae" sprechen müssen. Mit diesen Worten kommentierte Reichskanzler Theobald von Bethmann Hollweg im Ersten Weltkrieg sarkastisch den Beginn des uneingeschränken U-Boot-Kriegs durch Deutschland, der seiner Meinung nach zum Kriegseintritt der USA und der Niederlage des Deutschen Reichs führen musste. Doch Sieferle war offenbar lateinfest. Der Historiker lehrte Neuere Geschichte an der Universität Mannheim und später in St. Gallen. Seine Formulierung, so wird im Netz orakelt, muss einen Hintersinn haben. "Finis Germania": Deutschland Ende. Meinte Sieferle vielleicht quasi-vokativisch "Schluss jetzt, Germania"? Oder "Das Höchste (ist) Deutschland"?

The End of Germany

[...] If Rolf Peter Sieferle had meant the End of Germany, he would have written it grammatically correctly as, "Finis Germaniae." With these words, Chancellor Bethmann Hollweg in the First World War sarcastically used this phrase when Germany began unlimited U-Boot operations, which, in his opinion, would lead to U.S. entry into the war and the defeat of the German Reich. But Dieferle was evidently very good at Latin. The historian taught new history at the University of Mannheim and later at St. Gallen. His forumlation, so has been speculated about online, must have a deeper meaning. "Finis Germania": Germany End. Did Sieferle perhaps mean, quasi-vocatively, "End This, Germania"? Or "The Highest (is) Germany"?

I would suggest a third possible pun, given that he is grappling with the monster of Holocaust Tyranny, to be on Theodore Kaufmann's Germany Must Perish. Too obscure?

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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby hermod » 2 years 2 months ago (Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:36 pm)

If he was as good at Latin as told, I'd opt for the third explanation, i.e. a desire to annihilate millennial Germany, Sannhet.
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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby Hieldner » 2 years 2 months ago (Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:40 pm)

On pages 71–72 Sieferle wrote:

Dieses sündenbeladene Volk, das sich dieser Schuld niemals entledigen kann, »die Vergangenheit nicht entsorgen darf«, fällt nun, wie zu erwarten, in die Hände der Priester. Ihre Aufgabe ist es zu mahnen, zu erinnern und den Mythos wachzuhalten. Aus dem Dogma entspringt ein Auftrag, eine Sendung: die totale ethische Beweihräucherung und Missionierung der Welt, was zwar die Sünde nicht tilgen, aber doch Entlastung bringen kann. Durch die Kombination von Zerknirschung und Gutherzigkeit kann ein neuer, entpolitisierter Typus geschmiedet werden.
Die neue Staatsreligion herrscht praktisch unangefochten. ihre Anhänger und Verkündiger finden sich in allen politischen und gesellschaftlichen Lagern, von der mittleren Rechten über die mittlere Linke bis zum antifaschistischen Terrorismus. Diese Ubiquität ist Zeichen ihrer enormen Vitalität. Und doch soll es auch hier untergründige Freigeister geben. Es sind dies die Leugner, Verdränger, Relativierer, also diejenigen, die (in heilloser Tradition zu einem Verfahren, das einst »Aufklärung« hieß) an dem Mythos kratzen. Aber gibt es sie wirklich? Oder sind die Ketzer nicht letztlich doch bloß eine Erfindung der Orthodoxie?


Now this people laden with sin, who may never get rid of this guilt, »may never dispose of its past« falls, as expected, into the hands of the priests. Their purpose is to admonish, to remind and to keep the myth alive. From the dogma arises a task, a mission: the total ethical adulation and evangelization of the world, which cannot redeem the sin, but may nevertheless bring relief. By the combination of contrition and good-heartedness a new, depoliticized type can be forged.

The new state religion rules virtually unchallenged. Her supporters and preachers are found in all political and social camps, from the center right to the center left to antifacist terrorism. This ubiquity is a sign of her enormous vitality. And yet there seem to be hidden freethinkers here, too. These are the deniers, suppressors, relativists, that is, those who (in hopeless tradition to a procedure which once was called »enlightenment«) chip away at the myth. But are they real? Or aren’t the heretics, in the end, merely an invention of orthodoxy?


He hasn’t included a link to codoh.com at this point, which is regrettable.
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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 2 months ago (Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:55 am)

Hieldner wrote:On pages 71–72 Sieferle wrote:

The new state religion rules virtually unchallenged. Her supporters and preachers are found in all political and social camps, from the center right to the center left to antifacist terrorism. This ubiquity is a sign of her enormous vitality. And yet there seem to be hidden freethinkers here, too. These are the deniers, suppressors, relativists, that is, those who (in hopeless tradition to a procedure which once was called »enlightenment«) chip away at the myth. But are they real? Or aren’t the heretics, in the end, merely an invention of orthodoxy?

Excellent find. Thanks very much for it. I think this proves, well enough for me, that Sieferle was aware of CODOHian holocaust Revisionism.

Do you know the exact year these words were written? I am told the book (I have not read it) contains much content he wrote previously.

He hasn’t included a link to codoh.com at this point, which is regrettable.
Needless to say, anything but an allusion to the the heretics/deniers is presumably illegal in Germany.

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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby Hektor » 2 years 2 months ago (Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:12 pm)

Sannhet wrote:
Hieldner wrote:On pages 71–72 Sieferle wrote:

The new state religion rules virtually unchallenged. Her supporters and preachers are found in all political and social camps, from the center right to the center left to antifacist terrorism. This ubiquity is a sign of her enormous vitality. And yet there seem to be hidden freethinkers here, too. These are the deniers, suppressors, relativists, that is, those who (in hopeless tradition to a procedure which once was called »enlightenment«) chip away at the myth. But are they real? Or aren’t the heretics, in the end, merely an invention of orthodoxy?

Excellent find. Thanks very much for it. I think this proves, well enough for me, that Sieferle was aware of CODOHian holocaust Revisionism.

Do you know the exact year these words were written? I am told the book (I have not read it) contains much content he wrote previously.
I have no idea whether Dr. Sieferle ever visited our site or forum here. But he for sure was familiar with Holocaust Revisionism. That would indicate to me that he did do some online research.. So I'd guess he may have come across. The charade of Holocaustianity is however all to obvious to the critical thinker. Presumably some people will have noticed the para-religious character and parallels with the inquisition in the treatment of his critiques.

He mentions that the Holocaust faith permeats the political spectrum. from the far left to the right. One should add here that the Holocaust was mainly pushed by people from the far left. Western Allied officials, who weren't Marxists may just have seen as a useful propaganda tool that would be dropped later. But the sykewar specialists were often Jews from Germany with a far left background. Frankfurt School and its surrounding s to be more precise. People that had Marxist convictions, who studied psychology and sociology. They were full of hate for traditional Western values and especially Germany. On the other hand the paleo-Marxists of the Soviet Union and their satellites were pushing the Holocaust agenda as well.

Not sure what year the Sieferle book is, but it seems to be fairly recent. It's a real pity Sieferle is dead. There was a real need for intellectuals like him in Germany.

Sannhet wrote:
Hieldner wrote:He hasn’t included a link to codoh.com at this point, which is regrettable.
Needless to say, anything but an allusion to the the heretics/deniers is presumably illegal in Germany.

I don't think they would have jailed him - the legislation has a pure political purpose. But referring CODOH would have gotten him into professional trouble. That's for sure. So the attacks were limited to unfriendly reviews.

Let's hope more Germans with intellectual interests read that book and come to the right conclusions.

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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby Hieldner » 2 years 2 months ago (Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:27 pm)

Hektor wrote:Not sure what year the Sieferle book is, but it seems to be fairly recent.

Sieferle committed suicide in September 2016, the book was published posthumously in early 2017.

Sannhet wrote:Do you know the exact year these words were written? I am told the book (I have not read it) contains much content he wrote previously.


To maybe clarify some of the issues brought up, I quote from the epilogue by his friend Raimund Kolb:
After his suicide, which met us all, his old friends, from the skies of the heavens, Finis Germania, was found on his computer, among other still unpublished writings such as War and Civilization and The Structure of the Migration Crisis. This text has a special role in his own work, because, besides all its analytical sharpness, it is also a “Gemüthswerk” (de la Motte Fouque). In a few of the topoi which have been dealt with, there appears to be a diction which is otherwise unfamiliar to him, which, for clarity, does not shy away from cynical tapering. It is also remarkable that the text doesn’t obey scientific-formal criteria of classification. Instead, literary assembly technology was used. At first sight the themes seem to be compiled arbitrarily, but all together, including the critiques of the culture, they constitute a mosaic-like result: “Finis Germania” - a syntagma, which could also be interpreted as a definite answer to “Germania delenda est” or “Germany must perish,” which was first first demanded in 1897 by the British and later in the context of the two world wars.
The last change to the text was made by Sieferle on 10 April 2015. Some themes have already been treated in Epochenwechsel [from 1994], but here they are condensed in a sentential style that crystallizes here and there in aphorisms. Even though no further changes were made, it is probable that he turned to the text once again under the impression of the acute migration crisis, which was internationally carefully planned in advance and was triggered by the German chancellor in a coup like fashion in the fall of 2015.
»[Holocaust soap] odor, if captured and retained… would preserve the core of an individual soul… The undesirable smell of the extract spoke of the spectral Derridian trace… that continued to remind its consumers of their own bio-ontology.«—B. Shallcross

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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby hermod » 2 years 2 months ago (Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:02 pm)

Hieldner wrote:
Hektor wrote:Not sure what year the Sieferle book is, but it seems to be fairly recent.

Sieferle committed suicide in September 2016, the book was published posthumously in early 2017.

Sannhet wrote:Do you know the exact year these words were written? I am told the book (I have not read it) contains much content he wrote previously.


To maybe clarify some of the issues brought up, I quote from the epilogue by his friend Raimund Kolb:
After his suicide, which met us all, his old friends, from the skies of the heavens, Finis Germania, was found on his computer, among other still unpublished writings such as War and Civilization and The Structure of the Migration Crisis. This text has a special role in his own work, because, besides all its analytical sharpness, it is also a “Gemüthswerk” (de la Motte Fouque). In a few of the topoi which have been dealt with, there appears to be a diction which is otherwise unfamiliar to him, which, for clarity, does not shy away from cynical tapering. It is also remarkable that the text doesn’t obey scientific-formal criteria of classification. Instead, literary assembly technology was used. At first sight the themes seem to be compiled arbitrarily, but all together, including the critiques of the culture, they constitute a mosaic-like result: “Finis Germania” - a syntagma, which could also be interpreted as a definite answer to “Germania delenda est” or “Germany must perish,” which was first first demanded in 1897 by the British and later in the context of the two world wars.
The last change to the text was made by Sieferle on 10 April 2015. Some themes have already been treated in Epochenwechsel [from 1994], but here they are condensed in a sentential style that crystallizes here and there in aphorisms. Even though no further changes were made, it is probable that he turned to the text once again under the impression of the acute migration crisis, which was internationally carefully planned in advance and was triggered by the German chancellor in a coup like fashion in the fall of 2015.


The destruction of Germany was also commonly requested in France after the French defeat of 1871, i.e. from the birth of the German state. "Delenda est Germania ! " was even the title of a French book published in 1884, i.e. 13 years before a similar request was openly made for the 1st time in Britain.

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"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Celebrated German historian, Rolf Peter Sieferle, exposed as Holocaust heretic, calling it an anti-German 'religion'

Postby Hektor » 2 years 1 month ago (Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:26 am)

hermod wrote:....

The destruction of Germany was also commonly requested in France after the French defeat of 1871, i.e. from the birth of the German state. "Delenda est Germania ! " was even the title of a French book published in 1884, i.e. 13 years before a similar request was openly made for the 1st time in Britain.

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I think a German word used when referring to France in this period was "Erbfeind", meaning there were several disputes already in the air. You mentioned there was Anti-German literature in France and Britain of this period. It would be interesting to assess the number of titles of that kind and how many of those were print or reached an audience. The 'second Reich' was nicely rounded off, included most Germans (exceptions being e.g. Austrians and Volksdeutsche) and only had a few minorities (e.g. Jews, Danes, some slavic people i.e Poles ), But overall I think it was an about +95% German country.


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